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(The New York Times)   You know how your doctor calls HDL 'good' cholesterol? Yeah, about that   (nytimes.com) divider line 89
    More: Interesting, HDL, Blood Institute, Southwestern Medical Center, DNA sequences, Broad Institute, bad cholesterol, cardiology, cholesterol  
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13915 clicks; posted to Main » on 17 May 2012 at 6:05 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-17 01:06:00 AM
A new study debunked that other old study that debunked that older study^10000
 
2012-05-17 01:23:05 AM
yeah, actually the majority of what what doctors think are "risk factors" or "benefit factors" wrt heart disease has no proven causal link.
 
2012-05-17 04:15:12 AM

Asa Phelps: yeah, actually the majority of what what doctors think are "risk factors" or "benefit factors" wrt heart disease has no proven causal link.


Actually the majority of what doctors think causes heart disease is sitting on your ass and eating too much.

Which is basically proven, too.
 
2012-05-17 05:53:23 AM
Found this earlier today:

The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The French eat a lot of fat and also suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and also suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats
and suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans.

CONCLUSION:
Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.
 
2012-05-17 06:15:12 AM
I hate fat people
 
2012-05-17 06:17:03 AM

digitalpirate: I hate fat people


You sound fat.
 
2012-05-17 06:23:40 AM
It's red meat!

Meat is murder meat is murder!!!!

You're all a bunch of meat eating, genocidal Neanderthals with bad hearts!


/I keed
 
2012-05-17 06:27:44 AM
This is a big reason that science is held in such low regard in the US. Doctors keep rewriting the goddamn facts.
 
2012-05-17 06:29:25 AM
I've found a correlation between letting a doctor terrify you with bs 'studies' and over prescribed meds and poor health.
The most popular cholestral med was described as poison on a patient review forum but the top in bonuses to those prescribing it. Hmm. Mr.S. took it for awhile and it destroyed his health.

/need more coffee
 
2012-05-17 06:29:34 AM
'The Lancet' sounds like either a high school yearbook, or a city-guide to gay bars.
 
2012-05-17 06:32:14 AM
*zoidbergparasiteslost.jpg*
 
2012-05-17 06:32:32 AM
Thank god. I can finally go back to eating my fried egg and bologna sandwiches, with extra mayo. Suck it health freaks.
 
2012-05-17 06:36:34 AM
FTFA: "I am an optimist," Dr. Nissen said.

Translation: "I am getting buttloads of money from BigPharma to do this research and try to come up with another expensive, lifelong medication to shove down the public's throat," Dr. Nissen said.
 
2012-05-17 06:44:21 AM

Archie Goodwin: Found this earlier today:

The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The French eat a lot of fat and also suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and also suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats
and suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans.

CONCLUSION:
Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.



Being an obnoxious, intolerant American shortens your life
 
2012-05-17 06:45:40 AM
So in other words, the best way to lower risk of death by asplodey heart is still to eat less red meat and fried stuff, more fish, lots of green and yellow veggies, lose some weight and move around occasionally. Okay, I'll go with that.
 
2012-05-17 06:48:00 AM
Therefore all of medicine is hereby illegal and only homeopathic medicine and acupuncture may be covered by insurance.

/Chiropractic may be covered on a case-by-case basis.
 
2012-05-17 06:50:24 AM
This may shock some of you, but... If you are even a little bit active, and you have enough self-control to consume things in moderation, then you can eat and drink pretty much anything you want.
 
2012-05-17 06:58:56 AM

Old enough to know better: This is a big reason that science is held in such low regard in the US. Doctors keep rewriting the goddamn facts.


The problem is that, in America, people think that physicians and science have a relationship at all.
 
2012-05-17 06:59:10 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-05-17 07:04:26 AM
There has NEVER been any scientific paper produced ANYWHERE that linked cholesterol (of any type) to heart disease,so read this article and just move on,,,nothing to see here folks.
 
2012-05-17 07:04:55 AM
As a professional scientist, I say say we give the medical community our implicit trust and take whatever the pharmaceutical companies give us. We're lucky to have them.

What? No, that's not a big wad of cash in my pocket...I'm just so happy to see you!

/PS. Never volunteer for a phase 1 clinical trial.
 
2012-05-17 07:11:17 AM
I read as far as "the Lancet." This is the journal that published Wakefield's "OMFG VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM" article. Your impact factor is now zero. Good day, sir.
 
2012-05-17 07:11:19 AM

born_yesterday: As a professional scientist, I say say we give the medical community our implicit trust and take whatever the pharmaceutical companies give us. We're lucky to have them.

What? No, that's not a big wad of cash in my pocket...I'm just so happy to see you!

/PS. Never volunteer for a phase 1 clinical trial.


heh
 
2012-05-17 07:20:05 AM

Tommy Moo: I read as far as "the Lancet." This is the journal that published Wakefield's "OMFG VACCINES CAUSE AUTISM" article. Your impact factor is now zero. Good day, sir.


They did retract it, eventually, and they are still one of the planet's premier medical journals.

Everyone gets something wrong once in a while. Taking everything they print as absolute truth would be wrong for any journal.
 
2012-05-17 07:20:56 AM

AbbeySomeone: I've found a correlation between letting a doctor terrify you with bs 'studies' and over prescribed meds and poor health.
The most popular cholestral med was described as poison on a patient review forum but the top in bonuses to those prescribing it. Hmm. Mr.S. took it for awhile and it destroyed his health.

/need more coffee



Yes, but your word on this is hardly useful, because you're anti-vaccination and believe in an animistic notion of magical self-healing.
 
2012-05-17 07:28:11 AM
They've got me on those Niacin pills (among a bunch of others) and I keep getting told to exercise and raise my HDL or risk getting a third heart attack.

So I have that going for me.
 
2012-05-17 07:30:33 AM

Gothnet: AbbeySomeone: I've found a correlation between letting a doctor terrify you with bs 'studies' and over prescribed meds and poor health.
The most popular cholestral med was described as poison on a patient review forum but the top in bonuses to those prescribing it. Hmm. Mr.S. took it for awhile and it destroyed his health.

/need more coffee


Yes, but your word on this is hardly useful, because you're anti-vaccination and believe in an animistic notion of magical self-healing.


It sounds so sweet when you say it like that.
 
2012-05-17 07:34:07 AM
This changes nothing but patient misconceptions, good on them.

/one day the fatties will realize you cannot heal your fat induced ailments with more food
 
2012-05-17 07:35:45 AM
FTA:

Now it seems that instead of directly reducing heart disease risk, high HDL levels may be a sign that something else is going on that makes heart disease less likely


I swear I think I sound like a Paultard on diet threads but this is EXACTLY what was predicted by leading Low-card diet proponenets like Drs. Eades and Atkins. They said that increased HDL , when caused by their diets was a sign of lowered insulin production in the body, which, through the magic of micro-hormones called Eicosaniods, which are trigged by the presence or absence of insulin, means that your BP is lower, your overall serum cholesterol is lower, plaque stops depositing itself on your arterial walls, and your blood is not as prone to clotting. All of which are significant causal factors for heart attacks.

It's ALL about the insulin levels not the amount of HDL. That's why those with genetic predisposition to make HDL get no benefit from it-because their insulin levels may still be high.
 
2012-05-17 07:40:21 AM
Tomorrow: Veins are bad for your arteries.
 
2012-05-17 07:43:15 AM
New evidence invalidates old theory; this is how science works.
 
2012-05-17 07:50:04 AM
I just started a low cholesterol diet and it's not as hard as I thought it would be.

I love red meat typically, but am finding that I'm not missing it much, I don't like mayo and dressings...or bacon...I think the hardest part is the cheeses and desserts for me....oh and some fried food, but even then it's typically only french fries that I like (though my doc says I can have as much sweet potatoe that I want and my Husband has invented probably the tastiest baked sweet potatoe fries ever).

If you are thinking of taking the steps to lower cholesterol might I suggest the book 500 Low Cholesterol recipes. The auther is also on low sodium so his recipes tend to reflect low sodium as well. The author isn't a cook and it shows (even though we are doing low cholesterol, we choose to use butter sparingly over using margarine at all...the author uses margarine), but the food is tasty. Nom nom.
 
2012-05-17 07:55:36 AM

born_yesterday:
/PS. Never volunteer for a phase 1 clinical trial.


Ima gonna keep volunteering until I gain superpowers.

So far the only extra senses I've developed are slight senses of dread and inevitability.

Worst thing so far is that my dancing has become even more white.
 
2012-05-17 07:55:59 AM

JaaVaa: This changes nothing but patient misconceptions, good on them.

/one day the fatties will realize you cannot heal your fat induced ailments with more food


Of course not, we need to heal them with really expensive maintenance drugs.

/The money's not in cures, it's in treatments.
//Which is why capitalism and medicine really don't mix well.
 
2012-05-17 07:59:32 AM
This just in, we're all gonna die.
 
2012-05-17 08:03:24 AM
As someone with low LDL *and* low HDL, whose doctor wants to put me on niacin, this is highly relevant to my interests.
 
2012-05-17 08:04:51 AM

TommyDeuce: JaaVaa: This changes nothing but patient misconceptions, good on them.

/one day the fatties will realize you cannot heal your fat induced ailments with more food

Of course not, we need to heal them with really expensive maintenance drugs.

/The money's not in cures, it's in treatments.
//Which is why capitalism and medicine really don't mix well.


/I think they mix pretty well
//they wouldn't be fat if they did it au'natural
 
2012-05-17 08:05:10 AM

Magorn: FTA:

Now it seems that instead of directly reducing heart disease risk, high HDL levels may be a sign that something else is going on that makes heart disease less likely

I swear I think I sound like a Paultard on diet threads but this is EXACTLY what was predicted by leading Low-card diet proponenets like Drs. Eades and Atkins. They said that increased HDL , when caused by their diets was a sign of lowered insulin production in the body, which, through the magic of micro-hormones called Eicosaniods, which are trigged by the presence or absence of insulin, means that your BP is lower, your overall serum cholesterol is lower, plaque stops depositing itself on your arterial walls, and your blood is not as prone to clotting. All of which are significant causal factors for heart attacks.

It's ALL about the insulin levels not the amount of HDL. That's why those with genetic predisposition to make HDL get no benefit from it-because their insulin levels may still be high.


No. No. No. You need to eat BREAD, bread, grains, more bread, CORN, bready bread bread bread! Stop eating things like MEAT, red meat, any meat, eat moar BREAD!
 
2012-05-17 08:07:44 AM

pdieten: As someone with low LDL *and* low HDL, whose doctor wants to put me on niacin, this is highly relevant to my interests.


Isn't niacin just a regular vitamin? Like one of the B series?

If so, couldn't you just take some Flintstones chewables or such?
 
2012-05-17 08:08:16 AM

pdieten: As someone with low LDL *and* low HDL, whose doctor wants to put me on niacin, this is highly relevant to my interests.


heard docs love when you bring in recently published journal articles to establish your omnipotence
/though i would hope he has heard this one
 
2012-05-17 08:11:26 AM

JaaVaa: pdieten: As someone with low LDL *and* low HDL, whose doctor wants to put me on niacin, this is highly relevant to my interests.

heard docs love when you bring in recently published journal articles to establish your omnipotence
/though i would hope he has heard this one


You can find info on niacin studies on the Mayo Clinic's website.
 
2012-05-17 08:14:36 AM
It's good cholesterol, but it spreads like bad cholesterol.

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-05-17 08:14:38 AM

Archie Goodwin: Found this earlier today:

The Japanese eat very little fat and suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The French eat a lot of fat and also suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The Japanese drink very little red wine and suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The Italians drink excessive amounts of red wine and also suffer fewer
heart attacks than the British or Americans.

The Germans drink a lot of beer and eat lots of sausages and fats
and suffer fewer heart attacks than the British or Americans.

CONCLUSION:
Eat and drink what you like. Speaking English is apparently what kills you.


Or maybe its the fast food or lack of exercise. English speakers are certainly fatter.
 
2012-05-17 08:17:48 AM
You don't have to be overweight to have high cholesterol.
 
2012-05-17 08:21:02 AM
First butter was bad. Then butter was good. Then it was bad again. Now its good, but only a little.

Eggs used to be good for you. Then they were bad. Then they were good, if you ate the whites but not the yolks. Now they're good again in moderation.

Then there's salt. Salt used to kill you. Now its good for you, but is sodium that'll kill you. Sorta.

Oh, and fat. Fat used to be evil. Now some fat is good, its other fat that is bad. We think.

Red meat? Used to be good for you. Then it was bad. Now its sorta good, if you only have it twice a week.
 
2012-05-17 08:23:54 AM
But i was told there was a consensus
 
2012-05-17 08:24:32 AM
One study contradicts decades of research, quick, everybody panic!

I do recall Pfizer tried developing a drug that raised HDL levels awhile back - they had to abort the trial when participants started getting strokes and MIs. It was baffling to everyone because HDL was always found to be cardioprotective in just about every single prior study.

/HDL tends to be an indicator of exercise; those who exercise a lot tend to have much higher levels of HDL than those who sit around all day, even if they do eat reasonably healthy
//Remember as a med student back on my fam prac rotation, the only ppl who ever had high HDL (as opposed to merely having a high HDL:LDL ratio) were athletes
 
2012-05-17 08:26:55 AM

Tristaria: my Husband has invented probably the tastiest baked sweet potatoe fries ever).


Well?... Don't be a tease. You gonna give us the recipe, or what?
 
2012-05-17 08:33:28 AM
fark it. Eat first and let god sort 'em out.
 
2012-05-17 08:39:41 AM
....and next week it will be good again.
 
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