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(Wired)   On this day in 1988, scientists discovered that nicotine was just as addictive as heroin and cocaine, and yet we still allow it to be sold in stores across the country   (wired.com) divider line 242
    More: Followup, chemical structure, heroin, cocaine, big tobacco, accessibilities  
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4354 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 May 2012 at 1:35 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-16 03:35:32 PM  
FirstNationalBastard:

So, make heroin and cocaine legal and sell it in stores across the country.

Problem solved.


I came here to say this. Now I'm glad great minds think alike.

But I'm not kidding, are you?
 
2012-05-16 03:36:07 PM  

Terrydatroll: I always thought it was based upon how farked up and incapacitated it made you. fark, why isn't sniffing gas or glue legal since smelling roses is. There can't be as many stupid people on Fark as most of these comments seem to indicate.


That third sentence threw me for a loop after reading the first two.
 
2012-05-16 03:36:12 PM  
i36.tinypic.com
 
2012-05-16 03:37:40 PM  
No it isn't.
i13.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-16 03:39:22 PM  
I'm trying to grow some tobacco in a closed alley behind my house. I feel like I'm doing something illegal like when I grew some pot while in high school.
 
2012-05-16 03:51:22 PM  

RobSeace: snowjack: RobSeace: downstairs: I've never met anyone who's used cocaine all day, every day, for 40+ years and lived.

[danshamptons.com image 320x320]

There are superstars in every field of human endeavor, and his liver is the eighth wonder of the modern world.

[www.replikultes.net image 640x360]

"This may be the reason why Keith cannot be killed by conventional weapons."


LOL. So there I am, in Sri Lanka, formerly Ceylon, at about 3 o'clock in the morning, looking for one thousand brown M&Ms to fill a brandy glass, or Ozzy wouldn't go on stage that night...
 
2012-05-16 03:59:49 PM  
Hard to believe we still allow our citizens to do things we know are bad for them.
The government really needs to step in and stop this.
 
2012-05-16 04:05:24 PM  

barefoot in the head: Because those two alkaloids, caf and nic, supposedly make you focus and work harder without going batshiat. It's all about keeping that treadmill turning. Happy weed isn't good for Chairman Fatso's wallet. Senator Frump won't budge becasue he has shares in Fatso Co.


You might like this article.

/not my blog
//yes, it sucks anyway
 
2012-05-16 04:23:53 PM  
It's only addictive to those people with certain gene receptors that are variants on the gene receptors that are observed in a larger percentage of the population.

See Gene Variants and Addiction

Same basic problem as many Native American ethnic groups lack a vital enzyme to reasonably metabolize alcohol Native Americans and Alcohol

Tobacco is only addictive to those who are genetically predisposed to the possibility of this addiction.

But, that's just raw, natural tobacco. Commercially available cigarettes are so packed with chemicals and stimulants and enhancements as to barely resemble tobacco anymore so, fark the tobacco companies for manufacturing addiction where none needed to occur.
 
2012-05-16 04:30:23 PM  

jclaggett: Soulcatcher: caution: So what? Nicotine by itself likely won't kill you. It's not a carcinogen either.

Stop consuming it by inhaling fumes from burning plant matter and get an e-cig vaporizer instead.

That's exactly what I did. Quit smoking analogs 3 months ago! The e-cig was the best money I've ever spent- I feel loads better and everything I own doesn't smell like burning turds anymore, now it smells like blueberry pancakes =]

This Friday will be 2 weeks of no analogs. Loving it. Went with a KR808 kit to start. Got a guy local that has good prices on juice. 12bux for 30ml. A 15ml bottle lasted me almost 10 days. Right now it's a menthol mix he made for me, but I do plan to venture put in to the flavors. I just don't wanna go mod nuts and spend all my savings on hardware. Clearomizers have my attention at the moment. Probably gonna pick up a few soon. Oy tho never realized just how badly my car reeked. Owned it for 8 years and smoked in it the whole time.


You're already halfway to being "mod nuts" talking shiat like KR808, clearomizer and juice.

Seriously, some of those people on the e-cig forums are farking nuts. One guy started a thread yesterday asking how he can convince people to start smoking e-cigs and another said he loves to go hang out with smokers and harass them about the 4000+ chemicals they're inhaling.

As for me, I just started e-cigs and I'm content to just buy what is sold at the local Wally-World. I don't intend to smoke them very long no matter how much the "vapies" say to do it as much as you like. Even if it is perfectly safe you're still a nicotine addict and you're still going to be jonesing if you're ever separated from your precious nicotine delivery system for very long.

By the way, I think calling regular cigarettes "analogs" is farking stupid. e-cigs are not "digital". It really is no different than vaporizing marijuana except that most people don't extract the THC into liquid form before they do it.

/can't wait to pull out my analog bong and get baked later today (just kidding, but you see how stupid that sounds?)
 
2012-05-16 04:39:03 PM  

hartzdog: We're all adults here. Tell me again why we need elected officials to tell us what we can and cannot put in our bodies?


Because hippies and beatniks.
 
2012-05-16 04:48:40 PM  

Jubeebee: barefoot in the head: Because those two alkaloids, caf and nic, supposedly make you focus and work harder without going batshiat. It's all about keeping that treadmill turning. Happy weed isn't good for Chairman Fatso's wallet. Senator Frump won't budge becasue he has shares in Fatso Co.

You might like this article.

/not my blog
//yes, it sucks anyway


Thank you

"If, as a community, we admired wisdom above wealth and compassion and cooperation above competition, we would be well on the way to undermining the motivation to consume."

Now, there's a thought.
 
2012-05-16 04:50:43 PM  

The One True TheDavid: FirstNationalBastard:

So, make heroin and cocaine legal and sell it in stores across the country.

Problem solved.

I came here to say this. Now I'm glad great minds think alike.

But I'm not kidding, are you?


Nope.

Prostitution, drugs... both things that are illegal for no good reason, both things that are used to fill government coffers and prisons, both things that should be legal and regulated and taxed for adults that want to use them.
 
2012-05-16 04:58:28 PM  

thurstonxhowell: What a pathetic weakling you are. Looking for a placebo to blame when you fail. Just light up one more smoke and remember the days when you had integrity. Do it. Smoke.


I'm f*cking smoking a butt right now. What's your point?

If you want to quit -- if you really want to quit -- you don't need a patch or gum or anything else, you can just ... quit. It's called 'willpower.' You don't need to give hundreds of dollars for these products that may (or may not>) curb your cravings.

/we got a tough guy right here.jpg
 
2012-05-16 04:58:42 PM  
Currently getting my nicotine in the form of 14 mg transdermal patches.

Tomorrow makes 5 weeks. When this box of patches is done it's 2 more weeks of 7 mg patches and then I'm clean.

It feels so good to be not smoking after a pack a day for 35 years...figure I smoked somewhere around a quarter million cigarettes.
 
2012-05-16 04:59:03 PM  
f(cking keyboard.
 
2012-05-16 05:02:07 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: It's only addictive to those people with certain gene receptors that are variants on the gene receptors that are observed in a larger percentage of the population.

See Gene Variants and Addiction


Same basic problem as many Native American ethnic groups lack a vital enzyme to reasonably metabolize alcohol Native Americans and Alcohol

Tobacco is only addictive to those who are genetically predisposed to the possibility of this addiction.

But, that's just raw, natural tobacco. Commercially available cigarettes are so packed with chemicals and stimulants and enhancements as to barely resemble tobacco anymore so, fark the tobacco companies for manufacturing addiction where none needed to occur.


The bolded part is incorrect. The chromosomal region 15q24-25 has genes to express α5, α3 and β4 subunits, three of the 17 or more subunits that form pentameric ion channels known as nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. There is genetic heterogeneity in these three genes, and some of those variations have been associated with increased/decreased nicotine addiction risk, but it's certainly not binary. Other subunit variants (e.g., α4 & α6) are also linked to varying addiction risks and are expressed on completely different chromosomes. [Good review here]

It is entirely possible that there exist individuals that are wholly insensitive to the addictive properties of nicotine because of genetic variants in the genes for the aforementioned subunits, but the reality is sensitivity to the addictive effects of nicotine is multifactorial and there are likely very few individuals who truly lack "genetic predisposition" to nicotine addiction as that is, frankly, the default state.
 
2012-05-16 05:15:21 PM  
TabASlotB

You blinded me with SCIENCE!
 
2012-05-16 05:41:14 PM  
all intoxicants and mood-altering substances should be legal for adults. period.
 
2012-05-16 05:52:00 PM  
Whether or not it is addictive is not the point. Caffeine is addictive and it's quite popular. A substance is banned for political reasons, not because of some logical checklist of characteristics.
 
2012-05-16 06:02:24 PM  

divgradcurl: orclover: This text is now purple: [www.macdoctor.co.nz image 380x380]

This is why. Nicotine may be just as addictive, but it's a ton less harmful.

[www.macdoctor.co.nz image 380x380]
Out of all of those, nicotine was definately the worst for me. What makes it so much worse is its availability and price. Five bucks a day is pretty cheap for a habbit. Knew a heroine addict who gave up cigs to keep up with heroine though after her lung collapsed.

X is interesting on that list, and I am not argueing its placement at all, but I have heard that usage can cause long term memmory loss, weather that is true for myself I cant recall. Just about the most fun you can have for twenty bucks however back in the early 90's. Not that I can remember much from the early 90's.

well, at least your language skills are still top notch.

sorry, don't mind me, just snarky about too many pet peaves


Spelling.
Sorry, pet peave.
 
2012-05-16 06:09:07 PM  

TabASlotB: Sneaky thing is, tobacco industry scientists know about all of this since at least the early 1960s; needless to say, they were not interested in sharing this knowledge. There's quite a lot of documentation (pdf again).


i224.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-16 06:24:12 PM  

This text is now purple: I love how making opium illegal is a racist plot against the Chinese, but keeping the opium trade going in China was also a racist plot against the Chinese.

So which is it?


The Chinese in China weren't doing our laundry.
 
2012-05-16 06:42:30 PM  

snowjack: lewismarktwo: FYI: You can do Heroin (copyright Bayer Inc) everyday for the rest of your life, provided you had a clean and steady source, and live with no appreciable damage to your body or 'mind'.

I dunno about that. You gotta poop eventually.


That's what the prune smoothies and laxative smores are for.
 
2012-05-16 06:49:14 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: So, make heroin and cocaine legal and sell it in stores across the country.

Problem solved.


this seems like the most logical conclusion to me.
 
2012-05-16 06:54:48 PM  
And yet we still aren't allowed to smoke pot, which has none of the deleterious effects of either tobacco or alcohol.

/retarded laws are retarded
 
2012-05-16 06:57:01 PM  

This text is now purple: [www.macdoctor.co.nz image 380x380]

This is why. Nicotine may be just as addictive, but it's a ton less harmful.


I have a bit of a problem with solvents being so low on the harm-o-meter. Look at our goldfaced buddy who keeps showing up on Fark. His brain is fried.
 
2012-05-16 06:59:39 PM  

Jon iz teh kewl: Soulcatcher: caution: So what? Nicotine by itself likely won't kill you. It's not a carcinogen either.

Stop consuming it by inhaling fumes from burning plant matter and get an e-cig vaporizer instead.

That's exactly what I did. Quit smoking analogs 3 months ago! The e-cig was the best money I've ever spent- I feel loads better and everything I own doesn't smell like burning turds anymore, now it smells like blueberry pancakes =]

they make pipe tobacco that smells good too. burning "turds"?? what the hell do you smoke. even marlboro smelled kinda cool.


One of the most consistent comments I get about pipe smoke is how nice it smells.
 
2012-05-16 07:02:34 PM  

urban.derelict: mooseyfate: Heroin and cocaine can kill you. Easily. Nicotine? Well, you'd pretty much have to choose that fate, wouldn't you?

You know how I know you've never used cocaine or heroin?

/try walking through a field of wet tobacco plants
//pickers have to wear full-body suits when collecting tobacco leaves for processing
/what does that tell you?
//then can kill you by having the DEA serve a no-knock warrant
/bullets-first


I think it might have more to do with the fact that a tobacco field ripe for harvest is a very wet and hot place.
 
2012-05-16 07:07:20 PM  

TrollingForColumbine: Nicotine toxicology yes it can kill you


Does the name Paracelcus mean anything to you?
 
2012-05-16 07:51:28 PM  

caution: So what? Nicotine by itself likely won't kill you. It's not a carcinogen either.

Stop consuming it by inhaling fumes from burning plant matter and get an e-cig vaporizer instead.


Nicotine in high dosages will certainly kill you.

But I agree with you that anyone who wants to quit smoking should try an e-cig vaporizer.

Cheap e-cigs like you find at the gas station and grocery store don't work very well, but if you get a good one, they work very well. An eGo (or one of the many clones) for instance.

Anyone interested in learning about vaping (there is a learning curve) should try this link.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com
 
2012-05-16 09:26:48 PM  

JuggleGeek: caution: So what? Nicotine by itself likely won't kill you. It's not a carcinogen either.

Stop consuming it by inhaling fumes from burning plant matter and get an e-cig vaporizer instead.

Nicotine in high dosages will certainly kill you.

But I agree with you that anyone who wants to quit smoking should try an e-cig vaporizer.

Cheap e-cigs like you find at the gas station and grocery store don't work very well, but if you get a good one, they work very well. An eGo (or one of the many clones) for instance.

Anyone interested in learning about vaping (there is a learning curve) should try this link.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com


when was the last time you got one from a gas station or grocery store?

I've gotten one from 7-11 and another from Wal-Mart. Maybe they're not as good as your eGo but they're a lot better than the one I got at a cigarette store a few years ago. They deliver nicotine. That's why people smoke. They work and you don't have to go through a whole lot of effort figuring out all the crazy terminology or where to buy them online.
 
2012-05-16 09:53:40 PM  

JuggleGeek: caution: So what? Nicotine by itself likely won't kill you. It's not a carcinogen either.

Stop consuming it by inhaling fumes from burning plant matter and get an e-cig vaporizer instead.

Nicotine in high dosages will certainly kill you.

But I agree with you that anyone who wants to quit smoking should try an e-cig vaporizer.

Cheap e-cigs like you find at the gas station and grocery store don't work very well, but if you get a good one, they work very well. An eGo (or one of the many clones) for instance.

Anyone interested in learning about vaping (there is a learning curve) should try this link.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com


eCigs helped me quit, but I also was very addicted to it and eventually ended up breaking down and smoking again (& vaped). What actually made me stop smoking was munching an eighth of psilocybes.
 
2012-05-16 09:56:48 PM  

RedVentrue: divgradcurl: orclover: This text is now purple: [www.macdoctor.co.nz image 380x380]

This is why. Nicotine may be just as addictive, but it's a ton less harmful.

[www.macdoctor.co.nz image 380x380]
Out of all of those, nicotine was definately the worst for me. What makes it so much worse is its availability and price. Five bucks a day is pretty cheap for a habbit. Knew a heroine addict who gave up cigs to keep up with heroine though after her lung collapsed.

X is interesting on that list, and I am not argueing its placement at all, but I have heard that usage can cause long term memmory loss, weather that is true for myself I cant recall. Just about the most fun you can have for twenty bucks however back in the early 90's. Not that I can remember much from the early 90's.

well, at least your language skills are still top notch.

sorry, don't mind me, just snarky about too many pet peaves peeves

Spelling.
Sorry, pet peave peeve.


Spelling.
Sorry, pet peeve.
 
2012-05-16 10:03:19 PM  

urban.derelict: mooseyfate: Heroin and cocaine can kill you. Easily. Nicotine? Well, you'd pretty much have to choose that fate, wouldn't you?

You know how I know you've never used cocaine or heroin?

/try walking through a field of wet tobacco plants
//pickers have to wear full-body suits when collecting tobacco leaves for processing
/what does that tell you?
//then can kill you by having the DEA serve a no-knock warrant
/bullets-first


You know how I know you know fark-all about me?

/but you go ahead and be proud of your heroin use, I'm sure all the kids think you're cool as shiat
//farking loser
 
2012-05-16 10:03:26 PM  

Chocolate.x:
eCigs helped me quit, but I also was very addicted to it and eventually ended up breaking down and smoking again (& vaped). What actually made me stop smoking was munching an eighth of psilocybes.


Eighth? Eighth of what? A gram? An ounce? A pound? HOW MUCH DID YOU TAKE, MAN?!
 
2012-05-16 10:14:59 PM  
FirstNationalBastard:

Prostitution, drugs... both things that are illegal for no good reason, both things that are used to fill government coffers and prisons, both things that should be legal and regulated and taxed for adults that want to use them.

I suppose taxation is inevitable as long as we're not adult enough to do without government, but one benefit of taxation is financing consumer protection: quality controls such as STD clinics for hookers, adulterant testing for drugs, etc.
 
2012-05-16 10:16:22 PM  

scarmig: Chocolate.x:
eCigs helped me quit, but I also was very addicted to it and eventually ended up breaking down and smoking again (& vaped). What actually made me stop smoking was munching an eighth of psilocybes.

Eighth? Eighth of what? A gram? An ounce? A pound? HOW MUCH DID YOU TAKE, MAN?!


Naw maaaaan, not an 8th oz.. the 8th level boomer. Way more intense than the 7th level boomers, it's kinda like Fukushima Scale. I herd Buddha had the hookup on the 10th level psilocin.
 
2012-05-16 10:21:15 PM  
urban.derelict:

If you want to quit -- if you really want to quit -- you don't need a patch or gum or anything else, you can just ... quit. It's called 'willpower.'

If you say so, tough guy. I quit cigarettes by using nicotine patches to back up my willpower: I smoked my last cigarette then stuck the patches on for a couple months in decreasing doses till I got tired of spending money on that too. For some people willpower alone isn't quite enough.

But when I hear somebody say "I went on the patches and they didn't work," only to find that they only tried it for two or three days before giving up quitting, I think they're weak. There's obviously a behavioral component too.
 
2012-05-16 10:21:48 PM  
Hopefully we learn our lessons from the horrible addictiveness and evil of nicotine, and never allow heroin or cocaine to become legal.
 
2012-05-16 10:24:49 PM  

Descartes: Hopefully we learn our lessons from the horrible addictiveness and evil of nicotine, and never allow heroin or cocaine to become legal.


You ever quit caffeine cold turkey?
 
2012-05-16 10:34:14 PM  
scanman61:

Currently getting my nicotine in the form of 14 mg transdermal patches.

Tomorrow makes 5 weeks. When this box of patches is done it's 2 more weeks of 7 mg patches and then I'm clean.


That worked for me in 2000. No cigarettes since.

But then these past few weeks I did something silly: I decided to see if I could smoke cigars and/or a pipe recreationally, such as while sipping bourbon. Cigars made me dizzy and made hangovers worse and more frequent, and the pipe was just clumsy -- it was hard to keep the stem between my teeth without getting a tension headache -- and I burned the taste buds off my tongue. Fark that. After two cigars and a little less than an ounce of "Derby Blend" it's back to being a non-smoker. Now I'm missing the pipe a little so it's probably a good idea I gave it up.

Booze is another story: keeping it to 3 or 4 drinks an evening is fine, much more makes me unwell, but I won't be moving to a dry county. And caffeine: I don't see how anybody could endure a life as boring as mine without help staying awake. Everybody needs at least one vice to be human.
 
2012-05-16 10:39:53 PM  
TabASlotB:

[T]here are likely very few individuals who truly lack "genetic predisposition" to nicotine addiction as that is, frankly, the default state.

The default?

What do you say about cocaine and opiates?
 
2012-05-16 10:47:26 PM  
jshine:

Whether or not it is addictive is not the point. Caffeine is addictive and it's quite popular. A substance is banned for political reasons, not because of some logical checklist of characteristics.

Bingo. Heroin, cocaine and marijuana were made illegal as a way to control the "minorities" that used them: blacks, Hispanics, and "bohemian" and "subversive" white people who'd do things like hang out at jazz clubs socializing with "non-whites" like they're real people.

Alcohol prohibition came about because the Bible-thumpers got out of control; we should recognize that debacle as an example of the harm listening to those types can do.
 
2012-05-16 10:58:18 PM  
Out of all of them caffeine is the real bear of the bunch.

I was able to kick narcotics (never did H though), Mary J just puts me to sleep, Meth made me feel like absolute shiate the next day (same w/X), and I had to kick booze and smokes for a year during my diet. Got to admit I still through a few back and smoke a butt once or twice a month, but it's nothing like it was in my younger days. Mortality is an F-ing Biatch.

With that said, don't even come near me if I haven't had my 2 pints of Joe in the morning.
 
2012-05-16 11:27:41 PM  
It really is just as/more addictive. My mother died of lung cancer caused from smoking, and I swore I'd never try nicotine. My friend convinced me otherwise. I tried cigars at first and then snus. Then after a terrible week I went to cigarettes. Now I'm back on snus, and I'm trying to wean myself off. I thought I'd never get addicted, and I was sorely mistaken. Addiction is the only reason it's allowed which is all kinds of bullshiat but true at the same time. Same with alcohol. The government makes way too much money on alcohol and nicotine; the two most dangerous drugs ever created.
 
2012-05-16 11:49:27 PM  

FloydA: Hey subby, why not make it illegal? Prohibition always works out great!


Not only hogwash, but dangerous hogwash as well. I am a nicotine addict in recovery (6330 days so far) and I know whereof I speak. Nicotine is TEN TIMES more addictive than heroin, and withdrawal pangs last for more than 90 days, as opposed to 72 hours for opiates.

I frequently tell people, nicotine is what "smack" wants to be when it grows up, but that does not say the half of it; no one throws heroin all over the streets to tempt a junkie in recovery. You have no idea what it feels like to be seven days into the agony of withdrawal, tryong to hold on one more minute---and some SOB throws a lit cigarette at your feet as he is walking into a store just as you are walking out.

There has to be a special place in hell for such people.
 
2012-05-17 01:04:55 AM  

Happy Hours: As for me, I just started e-cigs and I'm content to just buy what is sold at the local Wally-World. I don't intend to smoke them very long no matter how much the "vapies" say to do it as much as you like. Even if it is perfectly safe you're still a nicotine addict and you're still going to be jonesing if you're ever separated from your precious nicotine delivery system for very long.


True enough. I was a heavy smoker, and vaping helped me get off the cigs, but I'm still addicted to nicotine, at least for now. But when I order juice, I can get it in different nicotine levels. When I first started vaping, I needed a high nic level. Once I got moved over to vaping and off the cigs, I've had pretty good luck with slowly moving down to lower nic levels, just gradually moving lower and lower. I'm hoping to eventually get down to 0 nic. If that doesn't happen, I'm still better off vaping than I was smoking cigs, but it's a goal, and so far, it's working. I'm at less than 1/2 the nicotine level I started with. If I can get to 0 nic, I'll see if I can just put the thing aside.

If the Wally-World basic e-cigs work for you, that's great, but they would have never gotten me off cigs.

By the way, I think calling regular cigarettes "analogs" is farking stupid.

I agree with that.
 
2012-05-17 01:08:45 AM  

olddinosaur: FloydA: Hey subby, why not make it illegal? Prohibition always works out great!

Not only hogwash, but dangerous hogwash as well. I am a nicotine addict in recovery (6330 days so far) and I know whereof I speak. Nicotine is TEN TIMES more addictive than heroin, and withdrawal pangs last for more than 90 days, as opposed to 72 hours for opiates.

I frequently tell people, nicotine is what "smack" wants to be when it grows up, but that does not say the half of it; no one throws heroin all over the streets to tempt a junkie in recovery. You have no idea what it feels like to be seven days into the agony of withdrawal, tryong to hold on one more minute---and some SOB throws a lit cigarette at your feet as he is walking into a store just as you are walking out.

There has to be a special place in hell for such people.


Good, now imagine someone who is addicted to food.
 
2012-05-17 01:33:29 AM  

mooseyfate: /but you go ahead and be proud of your heroin use, I'm sure all the kids think you're cool as shiat
//farking loser


I am proud of my heroin use, you know why? Because
a. it doesn't make me fat like alcohol
b. it doesn't make me a stumbling idiot like alcohol
c. it doesn't slur my speech like alcohol
d. it doesn't make my combative like alcohol
e. i don't need to prove my age because illegal drug dealers don't care

/illegal drugs are safer
//stfu, plebian
 
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