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(Telegraph)   "Let's see...fever, check. Infection in the lungs, check. Coughing up blood, check. My dear, it is of my professional opinion that you're just lovesick"   (telegraph.co.uk) divider line 82
    More: Sick, tuberculosis  
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10945 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 May 2012 at 4:15 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-16 06:11:55 PM  
My favorite is how both sides thinks Socialized Medicine is the same everywhere. In countries like Canada & Sweden (where it's great), must be poorly run & mismanaged like the UK...
 
2012-05-16 06:22:46 PM  

Shadi: My favorite is how both sides thinks Socialized Medicine is the same everywhere. In countries like Canada & Sweden (where it's great), must be poorly run & mismanaged like the UK...


Canada is good.. not great. I would far rather be treated in the States with excellent insurance than Canada for anything major. Our mental health system is farked as well.
 
2012-05-16 06:22:58 PM  

Julie Cochrane: But because nobody was practicing "defensive medicine," a sputum test was never done, so she was never properly diagnosed. And over here, with our lawsuit paranoia, somebody would have done the test.


Dude! Over here, someone would have done the test because it was completely indicated! If you show up in my clinic and you tell me you're coughing up blood, you're getting a PPD (test for tuberculosis exposure) and a chest X-ray immediately. Hell, I wouldn't enter the room without an N95 mask to protect myself. If you have a cough and weight loss, you're getting the same. If you have fevers and unintended weight loss, you're getting the same plus a blood count (because fevers and weight loss can also be symptoms of cancer, which is most often leukemia in kids).

It boggles my mind that she was set adrift to suffer for an entire year, then die. This isn't a matter of socialized vs privatized medicine. This is a matter of gross incompetence.

/Yes, I am a doctor.
 
2012-05-16 06:31:04 PM  

AbiNormal: That "doctor" needs to be skinned alive, rolled in salt, thrown in to a pool of alcohol, and set on fire.


No, give him TB, then don't treat him. Let him slowly die of TB while choking on his own bloody mucus. All the while knowing it's comparatively easy to cure.
 
2012-05-16 06:31:18 PM  

The_Homeless_Guy: Wanted to add one thing:

It's quite likely that both sides were "right" in this. It's very strange for someone of her age to get disseminated TB (which is the only sort of TB that would produce her symptoms/kill her this fast). You basically need a craptastic or underdeveloped immune system. This is why such is usually seen in AIDS patients or in infants/toddlers (who have underdeveloped immune systems only slighter better than AIDS patients).

Another way of having a crappy immune system is anorexia/bulimia. So they might have been right with such a diagnosis, but wrong in that they didn't look any further.


Except that she had a history of having TB so sorry don't buy that the doctors'/hospitals' were, in any way, in the right.

//lovesickness??? Really??? What century are we in again?
 
2012-05-16 06:32:16 PM  
As someone who has been told for more than a decade now that my coughs that last for months to years at a time that get so bad at times I throw up blood every time I cough is 'all in my head', I'm really getting a kick....

/did finally get a TB test at one point, which came up negative
 
2012-05-16 06:37:56 PM  

dv-ous: I know it's the Telegraph and not the Daily Fail, but is it at all relevant that everyone named in the story sounds Indian?


The family was from Pakistan, so in all reality the doctors in this case just did the dad a favor since he was likely going to killer her for ruining the honor of the family at some point in the future anyway.
 
2012-05-16 06:39:02 PM  

The_Homeless_Guy: RichieLaw: Can someone more versed in the British healthcare answer this question for me:

Why didn't they go to another doctor?

They continued to go to the same doctor from July to August while she got progressively worse...is this not allowed?

It's probably the same as many places here in that there are HUGE waiting lists for new patients at most clinics. So while she was likely free to sign up as a new patient at another clinic it probably had a 2-6 month waiting list till she could get her first appointment with a new GP.

As to why the heck they didn't catch this at the hospital, I have no freaking clue.


It doesn't work like that - you go along to a medical practice and say you want to be registered there, you fill in a form and you're registered. No waiting lists. I changed doctors in 5 minutes when I last moved house. This girl has been failed at every level, but I would still prefer the NHS over privatised medicine - there is a US farker currently in need of donations to save his sight. That would not happen here in the UK.
 
2012-05-16 06:43:51 PM  
This almost doesn't sound real. She was vomiting, coughing up blood and had a fever and multiple doctors just shrugged and said it was nothing? I have no medical training and I know those are serious symptoms and a cause needs to be found. Isn't a chest x-ray and basic blood work obvious? Wouldn't she have been severely dehydrated? No one could even bother to pinch some skin on the back of her hand?
 
2012-05-16 06:53:56 PM  

Julie Cochrane: But because nobody was practicing "defensive medicine," a sputum test was never done, so she was never properly diagnosed. And over here, with our lawsuit paranoia, somebody would have done the test.


Actually, it's unlikely a sputum smear test would have been done, because they are not very sensitive - they only catch about 60% of TB-positive patients in the best case scenario. A skin test would have been useless, too, because she was known to have TB exposure so a positive result would have been expected regardless. Chest X-rays are statistically more accurate at diagnosing TB (around 85%).

She had a CXR - that was the best bet at accurately diagnosing her, and it came up with a false negative.
 
2012-05-16 06:56:26 PM  

actualhuman: Aigoo: [...]
And this is what some people's "hope and change" has inflicted on poor, innocent civilians and children. I can stand it for myself - I volunteered for that shiat. But I have nothing but contempt for you farkers who foisted it upon my countrymen, in particular, your parents and children. Because what I deal with and worse is what you've done to your kids.

Thank you for your service and I'm sorry to hear of your troubles but I have no earthly idea what point you're trying to make here.


I think it might be "using the VA as an example of socialized medicine providing quality healthcare might be unwise"

/tends to agree
 
2012-05-16 07:25:43 PM  

rhondajeremy: The_Homeless_Guy: Wanted to add one thing:

It's quite likely that both sides were "right" in this. It's very strange for someone of her age to get disseminated TB (which is the only sort of TB that would produce her symptoms/kill her this fast). You basically need a craptastic or underdeveloped immune system. This is why such is usually seen in AIDS patients or in infants/toddlers (who have underdeveloped immune systems only slighter better than AIDS patients).

Another way of having a crappy immune system is anorexia/bulimia. So they might have been right with such a diagnosis, but wrong in that they didn't look any further.

Except that she had a history of having TB so sorry don't buy that the doctors'/hospitals' were, in any way, in the right.

//lovesickness??? Really??? What century are we in again?


Yeah, well. Didn't help that the doctor in question was a farking Pakistani farking patronizing farking misogynistic pig.
 
2012-05-16 07:40:32 PM  

Sum Dum Gai: She had a CXR - that was the best bet at accurately diagnosing her, and it came up with a false negative.


Can I infer from what you said about accuracy that the false negative rate is about 15%? If so, that's amazingly high. We definitely need better diagnostic tools.
 
2012-05-16 08:04:13 PM  

Bacontastesgood: Sum Dum Gai: She had a CXR - that was the best bet at accurately diagnosing her, and it came up with a false negative.

Can I infer from what you said about accuracy that the false negative rate is about 15%? If so, that's amazingly high. We definitely need better diagnostic tools.


I've never heard that chest x-rays were so bad at diagnosing TB. Every time I've been tested, or known anyone tested, the chest x-ray was done to CONFIRM the skin test or spit test, not as the only check.
 
2012-05-16 08:11:27 PM  
The female Leela's problem is purely medical, soon she will lay her eggs and they will hatch and all will be well.
 
2012-05-16 08:19:44 PM  
I know this is incredibly western-biased of me, and I know that it all has to do with what "home" is, but Pakistan is one of those places that it seems to me that if you've once escaped it, I have a difficult time understanding why someone would voluntarily choose to go back into that disease-plagued hellhole again.

There's a bunch of TB in Pakistan. There's not a whole lot of TB in the UK. It seems that it would be a lot less hazardous to your health to...not go back to Pakistan. "Uh, yeah. There's this internet phone call thingy called Skype..." If it were my family and friends who had moved out of the country? I'd be saying, "We love you. Don't come back home and catch TB."

And I "get" the irony of that, coming from an American, in Virginia--which, to the British in 1789 was one of those disease-plagued hellholes that was a hardship assignment. And civilized people couldn't understand why anyone who was civilized and had a choice would voluntarily live in a disease-plagued, native-infested, ass-end, armpit of the universe like, well, Roanoke, Virginia.

Lovely peaceful horse and winery country now. That and apples and canoeing and hiking trails.

But a couple of hundred years ago, the whole area was a good place to get sick with any number of deadly fevers and nasties, and the locals weren't too fond of the interlopers, either.
 
2012-05-16 09:17:22 PM  
She was in the hospital 5 days, was diagnosed with "a chest infection", received a course of antibiotics (presumably completely ineffective) and had ONE chest x-ray? Just assumed course one was going to be effective?

It'd also be interesting to know how much of that course of anti-TB agents she took, or if anyone bothered to make sure the treatment was appropriate given the possibility of MDR or XDR TB in someone who acquired the infection in Pakistan.

Now... C'mon consecutive Roanoke posts!
 
2012-05-16 09:24:34 PM  

Orgasmatron138: Was it Lupus?


It's never lupus.
 
2012-05-16 09:32:10 PM  

Julie Cochrane: And civilized people couldn't understand why anyone who was civilized and had a choice would voluntarily live in a disease-plagued, native-infested, ass-end, armpit of the universe like, well, Roanoke, Virginia.


This has not changed.

/kidding, Roanoke is a nice city
//the rest of SW Virginia not so much
 
2012-05-16 09:42:24 PM  

ClockworkRingtail: This sort of thing would NEVER happen in America!


You right you'd never be misdiagnosed by 5 doctors in America because you'd never make it out of the waiting room
 
2012-05-16 09:45:12 PM  

dv-ous: I know it's the Telegraph and not the Daily Fail, but is it at all relevant that everyone named in the story sounds Indian?


I have no idea what you're talking about.

Not one person in that story is named Elizabeth Warren.
 
2012-05-16 09:54:21 PM  

erewhon: actualhuman: Aigoo: [...]
And this is what some people's "hope and change" has inflicted on poor, innocent civilians and children. I can stand it for myself - I volunteered for that shiat. But I have nothing but contempt for you farkers who foisted it upon my countrymen, in particular, your parents and children. Because what I deal with and worse is what you've done to your kids.

Thank you for your service and I'm sorry to hear of your troubles but I have no earthly idea what point you're trying to make here.

I think it might be "using the VA as an example of socialized medicine providing quality healthcare might be is incredibly unwise"

/tends to agree


Fixed, but erewhon has the gist.

Point being, there were a LOT of people, as the healthcare plan was being debated and discussed prior to its passage, remarking about how the healthcare bill (which they hadn't read and I have) really wasn't all that different from the VA system and how vets get healthcare for life so why shouldn't all Americans.

Few problems with that.

1 - Not all vets do get free healthcare for life. We get healthcare for service-connected conditions unless we are 100% disabled or unless we are rated at 100% due to individual unemployability as determined by the VA. Veterans rated at less than 100% are free to seek care at VA facilities, but they may be required to pay a co-pay for their treatment and medications. If they have outside insurance, rest assured, the VA will seek that information and will charge for their services.

2 - I have been recommended by VA personnel fairly high in the food chain to apply for SSDI. First, because I do qualify. Second because it would enable me to receive healthcare from civilian providers (which is the specific reason I was given) because qualified polytrauma (brain and spinal injury) clinics are few and far between in the VA system and care for those kinds of injuries tends to lag behind in the bureaucratic system that socialized medicine necessarily creates (see yesterday's headline about the Russian who lost his leg to gangrene. VA systems I have previously been in have caused injury to veterans - including myself - due to similar delay of care).

3 - All offense intended to the entitlement mentality snowflakes out there: veterans have earned our benefits (which get cut every year). Many people screaming for free healthcare (some of my own relatives included) have never worked a day in their lives. But I strongly suspect that now that they have it, many will find that waiting 6 weeks for an urgent appointment, as many veterans have had to in certain VA systems (because they are not uniform nationwide - hell, they aren't even uniform within the same region!), is unacceptable. Which it is! Then getting care along the lines of what the girl in TFA got, in the VA system (which I have, more than once)... and that's not even remotely quality healthcare. Not by a long shot.

Not saying it's not possible to get quality care in the VA system, just saying it's damned difficult and it's limited to certain facilities - and those facilities are few and far between. It will be much the same once this bill goes fully into effect in this country and stories like that Russian kid's yesterday and this little girl's today will be far more common in the US.
 
2012-05-16 10:11:46 PM  
Well, I can see how he made that misdiagnosis. Last time a girl broke my heart it cost me a gallon of blood and three new kidneys.
 
2012-05-16 10:14:49 PM  
"No pill's gonna cure my ill I got a bad case of lovin' you "
 
2012-05-16 10:22:17 PM  
a chest X-ray was thought to have found a chest infection

greatk9.com

I'm just an RT(R), but even I can tell the difference. Whoever read that must not have stayed at a Holiday Inn.
 
2012-05-16 10:35:26 PM  

TinaSumthing: Orgasmatron138: Was it Lupus?

It's never lupus.


C(?)SB -- Mrs. KyDave was dignosed with Lupus about 11 years ago. After reading/ researching/ observing I am of the opinion that "Lupus" is medical lingo for "we have no farking idea what's wrong with you." The diagnosis appears to have been entirely a process-of-elimination matter, wherein they run test after test to see what it is not. After running out of tests, they scratch their heads and say, "Uhm, yeah... Lupus. Yeah that's the ticket: You got Lupus."

There is no positive test to identify it, and no standard treatment. Just years of 'try this bucket of pills', and if you still feel like poop, they try a different bucket. N.S - she takes about 15-20 different kinds of meds a farking day.

About 6 years ago, she entered a medical trial program. For agreeing to be a guinea pig, she gets the med free for life. She has to drive 65 miles one-way every month to get an infusion (no other delivery method available). She feels like poop-warmed over for about 2-3 days, then just regular poopey for 2-3 more. All told, she gets about 10-15 days a month of feeling moderately 'blah'. On the upside: she can breath without difficulty about 80% of the time, and can work at light-duty desk job.

Grateful for the "progress", but still dubious of the term 'Lupus'.

/ever wonder why they call what doctors do as "practice?"
//rant off
 
2012-05-16 11:46:08 PM  

Gyrfalcon: AbiNormal: That "doctor" needs to be skinned alive, rolled in salt, thrown in to a pool of alcohol, and set on fire.

No, give him TB, then don't treat him. Let him slowly die of TB while choking on his own bloody mucus. All the while knowing it's comparatively easy to cure.


With a fire extinguisher we can both get what we want.
 
2012-05-17 12:02:31 AM  
Don't give up your day job Doc.
 
2012-05-17 01:04:37 AM  

Gyrfalcon: AbiNormal: That "doctor" needs to be skinned alive, rolled in salt, thrown in to a pool of alcohol, and set on fire.

No, give him TB, then don't treat him. Let him slowly die of TB while choking on his own bloody mucus. All the while knowing it's comparatively easy to cure.


Eh, given how often she was in there and the fact that he almost certainly wasn't protecting himself against it. This may be more likely than you think...
 
2012-05-17 03:07:10 AM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: Sounds like Boogie Fever.


No, more like the Rockin' Pneumonia. With a serious case of the Saint Louis Blues thrown in. Possibly some Night Fever, and I'd also personally be sending her for dermatology exams, because she might have something under her skin. The poor fool, you can never win with that.
 
2012-05-17 08:56:34 AM  
Lord I don't know what to do
All I do is sit and sigh
That last long day she said goodbye
Oh lawd, I thought i would die


/obscure?
 
2012-05-17 05:06:06 PM  

Crewmannumber6: Lord I don't know what to do
All I do is sit and sigh
That last long day she said goodbye
Oh lawd, I thought i would die


/obscure?


Not particularly. He's rollin' down that lost highway.
 
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