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(CBS News)   13-year-old boy sticks it to Title IX critics   (cbsnews.com) divider line 66
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4049 clicks; posted to Sports » on 16 May 2012 at 12:44 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-16 09:44:07 AM

There's no boys field hockey team available, and he's willing to wear the skirt of the team uniform.

malvasiabianca.org
 
2012-05-16 10:47:11 AM
It's only a one way street. The "War on Males" continues.
 
2012-05-16 10:50:25 AM
The basic text of Title IX: No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving Federal financial assistance....... https://www.dol.gov/oasam/regs/statutes/titleix.htm

So, I don't get this:
"While he's out there playing," she notes, "some female is sitting on the bench that wouldn't have been on the bench otherwise. That's what Title IX protects."

No, Title IX is essentially just meaning that anyone, regardless of sex, should have an equal opportunity at participating in an activity. Whether that means having an equal number of "spots" for men and women in "athletics" overall (which is how it seems to be applied), or allowing a woman (or man) to have a "fair" attempt at making a specific team, if there is no team available in that sport for their gender. So, ie, yes, you have to give a girl a fair chance at making the football team if she wants to try out, but, if she isn't fairly good enough to beat out someone else, they can fairly not accept them to the team. But, there does have to be an equal number of athletic "opportunities" for women as their are for men, so, for that 60 member football team, there has to be 60 spots on athletic teams for women.

About the only thing I would say for that quote would be that with him on the roster of that women's team, the school would possibly need to add another "female" roster spot to either that team, or another female sport (or, conversely, remove a male roster spot from another sport). Because of required roster sizes that might not be easily feasible, but, that might be the "legal" requirement.

/at least, that is my interpretation of it, anyone can feel free to educate me
 
2012-05-16 11:56:53 AM

dletter: About the only thing I would say for that quote would be that with him on the roster of that women's team, the school would possibly need to add another "female" roster spot to either that team, or another female sport (or, conversely, remove a male roster spot from another sport). Because of required roster sizes that might not be easily feasible, but, that might be the "legal" requirement.


I can kind of see the logic behind what the Title IX commission did. After all, when he's a senior in high school he will be the strongest, best player on the team. But to say that it has a certain logic to it is not the same as saying "that's what Title IX means," as that quote did. That's not what Title IX means. If this kid is willing to wear a skirt for it, he clearly wants it bad enough. He should be allowed on the team.
 
2012-05-16 12:19:49 PM

Humean_Nature: dletter: About the only thing I would say for that quote would be that with him on the roster of that women's team, the school would possibly need to add another "female" roster spot to either that team, or another female sport (or, conversely, remove a male roster spot from another sport). Because of required roster sizes that might not be easily feasible, but, that might be the "legal" requirement.

I can kind of see the logic behind what the Title IX commission did. After all, when he's a senior in high school he will be the strongest, best player on the team. But to say that it has a certain logic to it is not the same as saying "that's what Title IX means," as that quote did. That's not what Title IX means. If this kid is willing to wear a skirt for it, he clearly wants it bad enough. He should be allowed on the team.


I agree, I am just saying, if I am reading Title IX correctly, the issue might be that with him on the team, whereas usually there would be for examples sake, 120 spots on teams at the school for boys, and 120 for girls... now one of those girls spots has a boy, so, there are now 121 boys playing, and 119 girls.... so, actually, now that I look at that... unless you gave a girl a boys spot... you might legally have to add TWO spots on the girls teams. As I said, I'm assuming there are sometimes roster limitations on the sports as well, so, not sure if that would come into play.

Conversely though, I would think that if you have these situations where a girl is the kicker on a football team, or gets on the wrestling team, etc, that they would also have to add another boys spot on some team to "equalize" things as well.
 
2012-05-16 12:22:13 PM

dletter: Humean_Nature: dletter: About the only thing I would say for that quote would be that with him on the roster of that women's team, the school would possibly need to add another "female" roster spot to either that team, or another female sport (or, conversely, remove a male roster spot from another sport). Because of required roster sizes that might not be easily feasible, but, that might be the "legal" requirement.

I can kind of see the logic behind what the Title IX commission did. After all, when he's a senior in high school he will be the strongest, best player on the team. But to say that it has a certain logic to it is not the same as saying "that's what Title IX means," as that quote did. That's not what Title IX means. If this kid is willing to wear a skirt for it, he clearly wants it bad enough. He should be allowed on the team.

I agree, I am just saying, if I am reading Title IX correctly, the issue might be that with him on the team, whereas usually there would be for examples sake, 120 spots on teams at the school for boys, and 120 for girls... now one of those girls spots has a boy, so, there are now 121 boys playing, and 119 girls.... so, actually, now that I look at that... unless you gave a girl a boys spot... you might legally have to add TWO spots on the girls teams. As I said, I'm assuming there are sometimes roster limitations on the sports as well, so, not sure if that would come into play.

Conversely though, I would think that if you have these situations where a girl is the kicker on a football team, or gets on the wrestling team, etc, that they would also have to add another boys spot on some team to "equalize" things as well.


It's true... schools have gotten in trouble for gaming the system by saying that boys who are on the training team for girls' basketball are counted as "girls" for the purpose of Title IX compliance.
 
2012-05-16 12:52:05 PM
Who names their kid Keeling?
 
2012-05-16 01:02:19 PM
At least the parents can feel secure their son will grow up liking women...
 
2012-05-16 01:03:35 PM

ShadyIce: Who names their kid Keeling?


A woman named Fairley. Seems to be a family tradition
 
2012-05-16 01:05:42 PM
A boy could be excluded from a girls' basketball team because it falls under the contact sport exemption. One could argue that field hockey involves as much contact as basketball. link
 
2012-05-16 01:07:35 PM

Sybarite: A boy could be excluded from a girls' basketball team because it falls under the contact sport exemption. One could argue that field hockey involves as much contact as basketball. link


I don't think I've seen a school with a girls' basketball team and no boys' basketball team.
 
2012-05-16 01:09:15 PM
Maybe it's just a typo, but one line of the text states that the boy is 14.

Whatever. Either he's magnificently gay, or is perfectly positioned, so to speak, to do advance scouting on who he wants to take to the senior prom.
 
2012-05-16 01:09:41 PM
There was a boy on our field hockey team in junior high.
 
2012-05-16 01:17:10 PM
he should claim to be pre-op transgender, and thus any attempt to restrict his play on the team should be considered discrimination against his sexuality.
 
2012-05-16 01:20:13 PM
cache.trustedpartner.com

"You gonna get raped"

 
2012-05-16 01:21:17 PM
I remember in my high school, they needed more field hockey players and were actually asking boys if they wanted to join the team. The only stipulation was that we would have to wear a kilt. I can't remember if anyone decided to join. Probably not out of fear that they would be picked on.
 
2012-05-16 01:21:17 PM

dletter: if I am reading Title IX correctly, the issue might be that with him on the team, whereas usually there would be for examples sake, 120 spots on teams at the school for boys, and 120 for girls... now one of those girls spots has a boy, so, there are now 121 boys playing, and 119 girls.... so, actually, now that I look at that.


I see your point, but it appears that the road doesn't run in two directions. For example, if a girl joins the wrestling team/baseball team/whatever, that would not open up a spot on a girls team for a boy.

The stated goal of Title IX was to create equal opportunities. They way it is being applied in this case hardly seems to be promoting "equality".

//not saying we ditch Title IX, just that maybe - just maybe - it needs tweaking.
 
2012-05-16 01:23:14 PM

Sybarite: A boy could be excluded from a girls' basketball team because it falls under the contact sport exemption. One could argue that field hockey involves as much contact as basketball. link


Women's field hockey is most definitely a contact sport.
 
2012-05-16 01:24:01 PM

Sybarite: A boy could be excluded from a girls' basketball team because it falls under the contact sport exemption. One could argue that field hockey involves as much contact as basketball. link


The lack of a boys' field hockey team is a factor here. I have no problem prohibiting a boy playing on the girls' team when he could be playing on the boys' team. Of course, you can't also switch to the girls' team just because you didn't make the boys' team either.
 
2012-05-16 01:24:43 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Maybe it's just a typo, but one line of the text states that the boy is 14.

Whatever. Either he's magnificently gay, or is perfectly positioned, so to speak, to do advance scouting on who he wants to take to the senior prom.


Or he grew up in a country where field hockey was a male sport, and then moved here and still wanted to play competitively.
 
2012-05-16 01:25:46 PM

CCCarnie: I remember in my high school, they needed more field hockey players and were actually asking boys if they wanted to join the team. The only stipulation was that we would have to wear a kilt. I can't remember if anyone decided to join. Probably not out of fear that they would be picked on.


A kilt or a skirt? There's a difference.

Chicks dig guys in kilts.
 
2012-05-16 01:30:35 PM

JRaynor: dletter: if I am reading Title IX correctly, the issue might be that with him on the team, whereas usually there would be for examples sake, 120 spots on teams at the school for boys, and 120 for girls... now one of those girls spots has a boy, so, there are now 121 boys playing, and 119 girls.... so, actually, now that I look at that.

I see your point, but it appears that the road doesn't run in two directions. For example, if a girl joins the wrestling team/baseball team/whatever, that would not open up a spot on a girls team for a boy.

The stated goal of Title IX was to create equal opportunities. They way it is being applied in this case hardly seems to be promoting "equality".

//not saying we ditch Title IX, just that maybe - just maybe - it needs tweaking.


I think you missed the point.... I never said that because the girl (or boy) taking up a spot on an opposite-gendered team , they would have to open up a spot on a girls team for a boy. They just have to make an "even number of spots" overall.

IE, in this situation, the boy has taken up a girls "spot", so, as per my example, that actually (if all things were equal before as legally should be) makes for a 2-spot "deficiency" of girls spots vs. boys spots. So, to make that equal doesn't mean having to adding two "girl spots" to the boys wrestling team. It just means a total of two more "girls" spots across the athletic dept... ie, add two more roster spots to the girl basketball team, or the girls swim team, or even to this existing girls Field hockey team... wherever on a girls team they have the allowance to expand the roster size.
 
2012-05-16 01:46:42 PM

Donnchadha: CCCarnie: I remember in my high school, they needed more field hockey players and were actually asking boys if they wanted to join the team. The only stipulation was that we would have to wear a kilt. I can't remember if anyone decided to join. Probably not out of fear that they would be picked on.

A kilt or a skirt? There's a difference.

Chicks dig guys in kilts.


They specifically said kilt. They thought it was a fair compromise. I would agree.
 
2012-05-16 01:50:52 PM

dletter: dletter


The goal of Title IX is to present both sexes with (seems appropriate here) a level playing field.

If a kid fairly earns a spot on a team traditionally played by the opposite sex (a girl wrestling or here, a boy playing field hockey) there is no balancing necessary since both sexes had equal opportunity to earn their spots.

That isn't what is happening though. Girls are being given an advantage and a better player is being kicked off a team. Imagine the sexes were reversed and say, a girl who busted ass and earned a spot on a buy's team was being kicked out because she was taking an opportunity away from a boy people would (rightly) go ape shait.

Kids are treated as equals or they are not.
 
2012-05-16 01:51:53 PM

Donnchadha: Sybarite: A boy could be excluded from a girls' basketball team because it falls under the contact sport exemption. One could argue that field hockey involves as much contact as basketball. link

The lack of a boys' field hockey team is a factor here. I have no problem prohibiting a boy playing on the girls' team when he could be playing on the boys' team. Of course, you can't also switch to the girls' team just because you didn't make the boys' team either.



I'm not talking about it being right or wrong, just that it isn't necessarily a Title IX violation. The way the contact sport exemption works, let's say that a school had a boys' football team and a girls' basketball team. They'd have to let a girl try out for the football team and join if she proved capable, however they would not be required to let a boy try out for the girls' basketball team even if there were no boys' basketball team for him to participate on.
 
2012-05-16 01:52:56 PM
buy's team

*boy's team

//proofreading is your friend
 
2012-05-16 01:56:51 PM

fatalvenom: Ok, too much talk about rules and crap like that. It's pics of field hockey chicks time:

Annnnnd, I'm spent


Sticky wicket?
 
2012-05-16 01:57:20 PM
As someone who used to coach girl's field hockey, some of those kids will kill you if they have the chance. Had a few girls take some pretty nasty shots and then refuse to come off the field.
 
2012-05-16 02:00:12 PM

Huck And Molly Ziegler: Maybe it's just a typo, but one line of the text states that the boy is 14.

Whatever. Either he's magnificently gay, or is perfectly positioned, so to speak, to do advance scouting on who he wants to take to the senior prom.


I'm guessing it's B. The kid's a genius
 
2012-05-16 02:04:21 PM
His mother, Fairley Pilaro, says, "We feel he's being discriminated against based on his sex, because he's not the best player on the team, he's not the fastest, he's certainly not the strongest."

This made me laugh so much. Whereas the official reason he was kicked out was because he was too good, here comes mom saying "No no, he's not good. Let him play!" That's... that's just hilarious to me for some reason.
 
2012-05-16 02:10:54 PM
So wait... based on these "contact rules" it's ok for same-sex people to grab each other during sports but not for people of the opposite sex? Do the southern states know about this?

Why can't we just all participate based on skill and stop worrying if people are an innie or an outie?
 
2012-05-16 02:32:28 PM

Kome: His mother, Fairley Pilaro, says, "We feel he's being discriminated against based on his sex, because he's not the best player on the team, he's not the fastest, he's certainly not the strongest."

This made me laugh so much. Whereas the official reason he was kicked out was because he was too good, here comes mom saying "No no, he's not good. Let him play!" That's... that's just hilarious to me for some reason.


To be fair, he's 13 playing on a high school varsity team. Give him 3 more years and he'll almost definitely be all 3 of those things.
 
2012-05-16 03:24:59 PM

Kome: Whereas the official reason he was kicked out was because he was too good, here comes mom saying "No no, he's not good. Let him play!" That's... that's just hilarious to me for some reason.


No, what she's saying is "he's not dominating the league; the 'too good' claims are untrue. Let him play."

The Section IX claimed: Pilaro's "stick play" and "advanced field hockey skills" had "adversely affected the opportunity of females" to play the sport.

That is some seriously insulting-to-women sh*t right there. "You can't expect fully-grown women to compete with a barely adolescent (I hope at 80lb anyhow) boy! Look at his moves!" The girls on my HS field hockey team would have been really insulted by this. In fact, either our team or one of our league teams had a male player. Folks just rolled with it.
 
2012-05-16 03:29:07 PM
I love how a lawyer in the article states, flat out, that Title IX is not about gender equality, but favorable bias in favor of females.

I mean, it's always been IMPLIED, I've just never seen a lawyer, incredibly familiar with Title IX, go out and say it in such plain language.
 
2012-05-16 03:32:50 PM
By the way, why not ban foreigners (well, in particular, exchange students) who compete in sports from their native countries because they may be "better" than their American counterparts?
 
2012-05-16 03:42:54 PM
Title IX is farked.

I watched University after University get rid of legitimate Men's sports in the 90's and then have to go out and actively BEG girls to play on sports to try and even the numbers.

You can't have a realistically-based Title IX w/o factoring in a reduced number or eliminating football and it's 85+ man rosters.
 
2012-05-16 03:43:11 PM

puffy999: By the way, why not ban foreigners (well, in particular, exchange students) who compete in sports from their native countries because they may be "better" than their American counterparts?


Go look at the pictures of the teams that won the PGA Minority College tournement... they are interesting...
 
2012-05-16 03:47:25 PM

Kome: His mother, Fairley Pilaro, says, "We feel he's being discriminated against based on his sex, because he's not the best player on the team, he's not the fastest, he's certainly not the strongest."

This made me laugh so much. Whereas the official reason he was kicked out was because he was too good, here comes mom saying "No no, he's not good. Let him play!" That's... that's just hilarious to me for some reason.



You don't have to be fast or strong to dominate if your technique is vastly superior. If the boy grew up playing field hockey and is now playing against other kids (boys or girls) who didn't start playing until high school, then it's not hard to imagine that his skill level is going to more than make up for any difference in speed or strength due to his opponents being older.
 
2012-05-16 04:03:20 PM

Sybarite: Donnchadha: Sybarite: A boy could be excluded from a girls' basketball team because it falls under the contact sport exemption. One could argue that field hockey involves as much contact as basketball. link

The lack of a boys' field hockey team is a factor here. I have no problem prohibiting a boy playing on the girls' team when he could be playing on the boys' team. Of course, you can't also switch to the girls' team just because you didn't make the boys' team either.


I'm not talking about it being right or wrong, just that it isn't necessarily a Title IX violation. The way the contact sport exemption works, let's say that a school had a boys' football team and a girls' basketball team. They'd have to let a girl try out for the football team and join if she proved capable, however they would not be required to let a boy try out for the girls' basketball team even if there were no boys' basketball team for him to participate on.


Girls can wrestle and play football (usually as a kicker). I don't see why this is an issue at all other than the Title XI people in NY want girls to be allowed to play on male teams but not vice versa.
 
2012-05-16 04:03:23 PM
It's like a discriminatory circular reference.
 
2012-05-16 04:06:25 PM

redmid17: Girls can wrestle and play football (usually as a kicker). I don't see why this is an issue at all other than the Title XI people in NY want girls to be allowed to play on male teams but not vice versa.


We had a girl on our wrestling team (Stone Cold) and a girl on our baseball team (catcher, daughter of a major leaguer.)
 
2012-05-16 04:13:12 PM

Gunny Highway: redmid17: Girls can wrestle and play football (usually as a kicker). I don't see why this is an issue at all other than the Title XI people in NY want girls to be allowed to play on male teams but not vice versa.

We had a girl on our wrestling team (Stone Cold) and a girl on our baseball team (catcher, daughter of a major leaguer.)


IIRC there were two girls on the wrestling team. One smaller one rarely wrestled because of weight class. The other one was a heavyweight who lost a lot because she was wrestling with 200 lb guys. Hell Nick Mangold's little sister played offensive line for some HS in Ohio.
 
2012-05-16 04:24:50 PM
His mother, Fairley Pilaro, says, "We feel he's being discriminated against based on his sex, because he's not the best player on the team, he's not the fastest, he's certainly not the strongest."

Keeling: Geez, thanks mom.
 
2012-05-16 04:46:30 PM

skrame: His mother, Fairley Pilaro, says, "We feel he's being discriminated against based on his sex, because he's not the best player on the team, he's not the fastest, he's certainly not the strongest."

Keeling: Geez, thanks mom.


FTFA: He's 4'8 and barely over 80 lbs. I'm sure he's used to it. And 13 (or 14) is what - 8th grade in US?
At that size and age, what boys' sport could he get onto a field for and play effectively?

But then I also saw that Time Magazine cover this week and wonder if there's a campaign going on to secretly incite war on boys everywhere. It's not enough to have to dodge priests and boy scout leaders, they have to watch out for sports organizations and their own goddamned mothers? Do we need to take up arms?
 
2012-05-16 05:24:45 PM

JRaynor: dletter: dletter

The goal of Title IX is to present both sexes with (seems appropriate here) a level playing field.

If a kid fairly earns a spot on a team traditionally played by the opposite sex (a girl wrestling or here, a boy playing field hockey) there is no balancing necessary since both sexes had equal opportunity to earn their spots.

That isn't what is happening though. Girls are being given an advantage and a better player is being kicked off a team. Imagine the sexes were reversed and say, a girl who busted ass and earned a spot on a buy's team was being kicked out because she was taking an opportunity away from a boy people would (rightly) go ape shait.

Kids are treated as equals or they are not.


The problem is we're trying to treat boys and girls as equals when they aren't. We're letting political correctness and fear get in the way of admitting what is true - boys get more testosterone than girls. More testosterone leads to many things including increased muscle mass. Boys beyond the age of puberty are biologically at an advantage over girls when it comes to things of a physical nature. Until we're willing to admit this, we will continue to encounter problems. We lower the bar for female firefighters so we can get more female firefighters. Because you know, when a fire sees a female firefighter, it'll be sure to go a lot easier on her.
 
2012-05-16 05:46:03 PM
I was in a town where we had no boy's volleyball, but that may have been my best sport. Our girl's coach had played at the college level and had a shot at mating the National team and she always said she wished I could have played on an organized team.

That didn't make me want to join the girl's team, but now I kinda wish I had. My game wouldn't have developed much but some of those girls were hot.
 
2012-05-16 05:55:27 PM
Coach_J:

Title IX is farked.


This.

I watched University after University get rid of legitimate Men's sports in the 90's and then have to go out and actively BEG girls to play on sports to try and even the numbers.

This blog definitely has a bias but still:

A year after graduating, Vidmar was one of three Bruins on the gold medal-winning 1984 Olympic team. The UCLA men's gymnastics team won the NCAA championship that same year, and again in 1987. But in August of 1993, facing serious budget cuts, the university announced plans to cut the men's and women's gymnastics teams along with the men's swimming and diving teams.

Although Title IX was not included in the stated rationale for eliminating any of the programs, the women's team threatened legal action on the basis of the gender equality law. By November, UCLA announced a four-tier plan to enhance opportunities for female athletes, which included reinstating the women's gymnastics team.


Way to go, eliminate a great men's gymnastic's program AND whack men's swimming and diving too!

You can't have a realistically-based Title IX w/o factoring in a reduced number or eliminating football and it's 85+ man rosters.

So much THIS.
 
2012-05-16 06:06:36 PM

slayer199: It's only a one way street. The "War on Males" continues.


THIS
 
2012-05-16 06:08:49 PM

SharkTrager: I was in a town where we had no boy's volleyball, but that may have been my best sport. Our girl's coach had played at the college level and had a shot at mating the National team and she always said she wished I could have played on an organized team.



Go on......
 
2012-05-16 06:13:10 PM

ShadyIce: Who names their kid Keeling?


Someone who's Irish.
 
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