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(AZCentral)   Not that it will change the opinion of a single person one way or the other, but the prosecution's own records show the Zimmerman had two black eyes, a broken nose, and two cuts on the back of his head the night Trayvon Martin was shot   (azcentral.com) divider line 794
    More: Followup, family practices, broken nose, medical records  
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6479 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 May 2012 at 9:21 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-16 10:43:07 PM
 
2012-05-16 10:58:15 PM

Hots_Kebabs: Trayvon Martin died from a single gunshot wound to the chest fired from "intermediate range," according to an autopsy report reviewed Wednesday by NBC News


And given that Zimmerman was on the ground getting beaten to death by Martin. Which obviously means that Martin is a magic flying negro who was hovering above Zimmerman in midair, forcing Zimmerman to shoot him down.
 
2012-05-16 11:10:08 PM
Remember to keep it civil in here. We don't need you to be Junior Thread Watch Captains.
 
2012-05-16 11:19:26 PM

Serious Black: Scerpes: So long as a first aggressor is in fear of great bodily injury and is unable to escape at the moment he pulls the trigger, he's still justified.

Who the hell thought that law was a good idea in the first place?


Probably the guy who got in a fight and had the guy he was fighting with pull out a gun or knife. It is a reasonable law under those circumstances because it allows for the use of deadly force when there is cause for any reasonable person to fear for their life.

As for Mr. Zimmerman, I wasn't there. I don't know what happened. When they begin to present actual evidence from the night in question, preferably undistorted by the hacks in the press and not viewed through the twisted glasses of some self-righteous politically correct Sharpton sycophant (racially motivated murder my ass) or some equally self-righteous self-appointed savior of the universe (but...skittles and hoodies are the domain of thugs! Save our neighborhoods from iced tea bottles!) then I'll be interested in hearing and seeing it. But ascribing motives such as racism to a man who - surprise! - is also of a minority race without knowing anything but what I've been told by news networks proven so unreliable that they've had to fire people over the fact that they deliberately edited footage in order to present the events of that night falsely is about as smart as sticking your hand in a fire, don't you think?
 
2012-05-16 11:35:10 PM
Trayvon had the option of standing his ground. A simple "Lets just sit here and wait for the cops that you just called so we can sort this out" would have been the smart thing to do. Instead, he was all black and decided to get killed for a bag of skittles.
 
2012-05-16 11:54:39 PM

cretinbob: When it comes from a peace officer (cop), ummmm...yeah, pretty much. 911 dispatchers aren't like McDonalds employees.


Once knew someone who worked part time as a 911 dispatcher and part time as a McDonalds employee. . .
 
2012-05-17 12:01:03 AM
I honestly don't understand how anyone can claim that it is OK to ruthlessly kick the ass of a person following you - if this were true, lines would be A LOT more fun (imagine the DMV). What's more is Zimmerman were following Martin because he suspected that he were a criminal/thug up to no good in his neighborhood - guess what? Martin proved Zimmerman's suspicions were correct.

Zimmerman didn't go into this situation expecting an ass kicking, or to use his gun as is apparent based on the number of calls he made to the police/911 previously for other suspect individuals - none of which resulted in a shooting, or physical confrontation.

Yea, Zimmerman could have listened to the suggestion (legally that's all it is) by the 911 operator that he stop performing his public service to his neighbors and leave but on the flip side, Martin could have abide by the general rule of society which state "you don't go around kicking peoples asses because they are watching you".

shrug.
 
2012-05-17 01:06:04 AM

Talondel: Baryogenesis: Zimmerman declined to go to the hospital after the shooting. He was not beaten to within an inch of his life.

But that's not the argument being made, so it's not the argument I responded to. The argument being made was (paraphrased) that if you initiate a confrontation, even if you only do so with offensive words, you surrender your right to self defense. ("confronted him and likely said or did something that set the kid off. He brought those injuries on himself and the shooting was not justified."). That's a) wrong and b) dumb.


The only point was that it was incorrect to say "beaten within an inch of his life" because he clearly wasn't. It was hyperbolic.

Hots_Kebabs: Trayvon Martin died from a single gunshot wound to the chest fired from "intermediate range," according to an autopsy report reviewed Wednesday by NBC News


Intermediate range means the shot didn't happen when the fight went to the ground with Trayvon on top of Zimmerman.

Does anyone know the distance of "intermediate range"? 6-10 feet? If Martin is ~8 feet away from Zimmerman with no weapon when he's shot then that doesn't sound like self defense.
 
2012-05-17 01:21:53 AM

Baryogenesis: Talondel: Baryogenesis: Zimmerman declined to go to the hospital after the shooting. He was not beaten to within an inch of his life.

But that's not the argument being made, so it's not the argument I responded to. The argument being made was (paraphrased) that if you initiate a confrontation, even if you only do so with offensive words, you surrender your right to self defense. ("confronted him and likely said or did something that set the kid off. He brought those injuries on himself and the shooting was not justified."). That's a) wrong and b) dumb.

The only point was that it was incorrect to say "beaten within an inch of his life" because he clearly wasn't. It was hyperbolic.

Hots_Kebabs: Trayvon Martin died from a single gunshot wound to the chest fired from "intermediate range," according to an autopsy report reviewed Wednesday by NBC News

Intermediate range means the shot didn't happen when the fight went to the ground with Trayvon on top of Zimmerman.

Does anyone know the distance of "intermediate range"? 6-10 feet? If Martin is ~8 feet away from Zimmerman with no weapon when he's shot then that doesn't sound like self defense.


I did some cursory searching on it, but the only distance reference I could find was this: Link

i.imgur.com

The author of the book seems to be sufficiently "experty," as he is a certified pathologist who's done forensic work for a long, long time.
 
2012-05-17 04:05:50 AM
Intermediate means not contact, so yeah like 3" to several feet.. I think the fact that Taryvon had no other injuries besides a small abrasion on one finger is the real tell here. If he had beaten the shiat out of Zimmerman, then there'd be more than that. Anyway, this is bad news....for racist douchebags.
 
2012-05-17 04:15:03 AM
No one will read this but this is what I gather...

If all evidence says a black man is guilty you're racist.

If all evidence says a white man is innocent you're racist.

Got it.
 
2012-05-17 04:22:18 AM

OMG! We're All Gonna Die!: No one will read this but this is what I gather...

If all evidence says a black man is guilty you're racist.

If all evidence says a white man is innocent you're racist.

Got it.


you're a farking retard
 
2012-05-17 05:25:49 AM

2 grams: Serious Post on Serious Thread: 2 grams: Phinn: Serious Post on Serious Thread[...snip...]

I agree and believe that the "Zimmerman should have done what the dispatcher told him to do" strikes a cord with many people including myself. The comments of a dispatcher are not law. I resent mcuh of the goverment do what you are told attitude that seems to have become very prevelent in the past few years.

The past few years? Like since a black democrat got elected? Because before that we the people had the gov't by the short hairs, hell, police would politely ask me if it was OK to issue a ticket if I was rioting in the street! And the PATRIOT Act was just a silly piece of paper! Now-a-days it's like some uppity, uh, president is telling me what to do all the time!

Since we have the TSA telling folks to shut up and get in line while they grope children and the elderly.

Since Stewardesses on Airlines have been threatening passengers (customers) with arrest if they don't put thier seat back on command.

Since the President of the USA tells me "Eat my peas" and "I must be listening to the wrong news stations"

Since Fark, which used to be filled with intelliegent and witty exchanges is filled with folks who simply scream out "derp" and the like as an argument and try to tell me that comments of a dispatcher are legally binding.

Maybe it's the snowflake generation comming up. Maybe it is a President who has an elitist attitude. I don't know.

I do know you try to inject race into my comments and I'm not buying you cheaply baited hook. No thanks skippy.


- Seriously, you rage against the TSA but believe the police are justified in beating OWS protestors. Be honest & admit the hypocracy.

- Elitist: (noun): Meaningless pejorative used by right wingers to describe anyone who is smarter than them but holds opinions or views contrary to their petty worldview.

/AMIRITE??!?!?!?
 
2012-05-17 07:10:32 AM

destardi: tirob:
Speaking of faults in education, Martin was an invitee, not a trespasser. Congratulations. You jumped to the same mistaken conclusion that George Zimmerman did.

No one thinks Trayvon should have been killed. Zimmerman was policing the area watching out for regular people like you and me; he saw a 6 foot tall guy in a hoodie at dark. There had been a string of burlaries; zimmerman was trying to stop crime. Maybe he went about it by following when he shouldn't have, but that's not the question. The question is, did Zimmerman fear for his life?


Right you are. The fear would have had to be "reasonable" according to Florida law; that is, the test is objective.

destardi: Why was Trayvon taking so long in getting back to his father's fiancee's apartment?


Where is there evidence that Martin's trip back to that apartment was taking longer than usual?

destardi: Why did Trayvon not punch the guy and run? Instead, he continued pummeling Zimmerman.


Do we know that Martin was still pummeling Zimmerman when the shot was fired? There seems to be some evidence here on this thread that the bullet was fired from "intermediate range."

destardi: That is clearly not someone who is scared for his life...Clearly.

For the purposes of the Florida self-defense law, it matters very little whether Martin was scared for his life when the confrontation with Zimmerman started.

Martin is dead now, so I don't think either of us will ever know if he fit the stereotypical profile you draw of someone who bows to peer pressure in black society.
 
2012-05-17 07:21:01 AM

astroturd: Trayvon had the option of standing his ground. A simple "Lets just sit here and wait for the cops that you just called so we can sort this out" would have been the smart thing to do. Instead, he was all black and decided to get killed for a bag of skittles.


There is no evidence that Martin knew that Zimmerman had called the cops.
 
2012-05-17 08:03:18 AM

prjindigo: The Chicago Rule: NEVER THROW shiat AT AN ARMED MAN.

Zimmerman is the appointed closed-community watch officer and therefor represents all his neighbors while out on patrol
Zimmerman was armed and the trespasser must assume that he was confronting an armed man.
I doubt Zimmerman could catch up with the trespasser, so the trespasser confronted an armed watchman on private property.
That's an "aggressive action" and implies intent.

The gated community was closed and locked.

The FAULT in this situation is the childhood education of the trespasser, not the tasks assigned to the watchman.


You are a retard.
 
2012-05-17 10:14:19 AM

Talondel: craig328: Actually, there will be a hearing to have the charges dismissed due to Florida's SYG law which, as it's written, doesn't leave the judge with a whole lot of room to do otherwise, given the evidence.

Where do you get that from? I don't see anything in the Florida self defense statute that suggests it works that way.

Case law suggests that self defense is generally a matter of fact for the jury to decide:

If evidence of self-defense is adduced, self-defense becomes issue for jury to determine. Stewart v. State, App. 2 Dist., 672 So.2d 865 (1996)

Question of self-defense is ordinarily one of fact to be determined by a trier of fact. J. Y. v. State, App. 3 Dist., 332 So.2d 643 (1976).

There is one case that could be interpreted in the way you say:

If defendant establishes prima facie case of self-defense, state must overcome defense by rebuttal, or by inference in its case in chief, and should it fail to do so, trial court is duty bound to grant judgment of acquittal in favor of defendant. State v. Rivera, App. 5 Dist., 719 So.2d 335 (1998),

But a reading of that case makes clear that if the defendant successfully puts on evidence of each element of a self defense claim, and the prosecution fails to put on any rebuttal evidence at all, the judge is required to dismiss. But the judge doesn't weigh the merits of the prosecutions evidence, he only dismisses if they fail to provide any evidence at all.

craig328: Now, the judge may cave to public pressure to push the case in front of a jury but that case goes to trial with a built in mistrial appeal (based on judicial error in letting the case go forward at all). You may not like that Zimmerman has a better than even chance of walking but what'll decide that is laws and not some murky subjective personally held morality argument. The medical records show that a physical altercation took place before the kid was shot and the shooter, apparently by far, was getting the worst of that exchange. Treyvon didn't ...



Well, you can choose to believe whatever you like...this thread is chock full of people who side with their subjective opinions over fact. However, the truth is, the way the Florida SYG law is written there will be a defense motion to dismiss the charges based on the SYG defense and the judge will have to rule on that. That fact is pretty well known and even a casual Googling would bring up a shiat-ton of examples of such.

Zimmerman's defense will move to dismiss based on that defense. The judge will be forced to consider the evidence in hand to rule on that motion. That evidence won't include things like his past encounters with the law, the advice the 911 operator gave him or any other existent fact that people cite when supporting their opinion of why Zimmerman should be found guilty of murder in complete ignorance of his invoking SYG because the scope of the evidence the judge must consider is quite narrow. It'll include injuries and the like that each person sustained and all Zimmerman must do is show that, by a preponderance of the evidence, that he was in fear of his life when he shot the kid. A broken nose, eyewitness reports of Treyvon on top of Zimmerman, the cuts on the back of his head...unfortunately, all of that produces what most reasonable people would conclude to be a preponderance of the evidence.

That said, the judge may very well deny the motion because judges don't want to skip the adversarial system and let a jury decide it. That and, do you want to be the judge that single-handedly snuffed the biggest racial court case since OJ? That guy still has to live in Florida after the trial after all. He'll surely pass on dismissing the case via the motion...although he shouldn't...and that's why the case will go to trial with a built in mistrial appeal in the event Zimmerman somehow loses in front of a jury (he won't).
 
2012-05-17 10:26:28 AM

Bontesla: No, he has to prove his defense. Self-defense is an affirmative defense. They are required to affirm it; the burden of proof is shifted onto the defense.

Technically, the prosecution doesn't need to do anything other than present Martin's death. The defense will need to prove that Martin's death was the result of self-defense.


US law is "beyond a reasonable doubt". All he (or any other defendant) must do is create doubt.

A good defense lawyer rarely tries to prove innocence as you open yourself up for character attacks which upsets the jury and makes them bias.


US law is very explicit. He doesn't need to prove innocence. He needs to prove reasonable doubt as that's the criteria for conviction.
 
2012-05-17 10:39:21 AM

cretinbob: Intermediate means not contact, so yeah like 3" to several feet.. I think the fact that Taryvon had no other injuries besides a small abrasion on one finger is the real tell here. If he had beaten the shiat out of Zimmerman, then there'd be more than that. Anyway, this is bad news....for racist douchebags.


It seems like he might have gotten one good hit to the nose which caused him to fall and hit his head or he was taken to the ground first and then hit in the nose. A beating would have left more marks on both men.

redmid17: The author of the book seems to be sufficiently "experty," as he is a certified pathologist who's done forensic work for a long, long time.


Ah, CBS has a better analysis than that other link.

The reports also noted the fatal wound's surrounded by a two-by-two inch pattern called stippling, caused by gunpower burns. It suggests Zimmerman fired inches away from the teenager.

Now, I'd like to know the angle of entry and if it suggests the gun was fired with Zimmerman on his back or standing up and level. I still can't see how a gunshot to the chest of a man on top of you wouldn't get you covered in blood. The body would fall on top of you, too, allowing for more blood to flow out. In the video of Zimmerman at the police station after the shooting, he doesn't appear to have any blood or blood stains on him or his clothes. And I don't recall reading about a 'blood stained' Zimmerman being treated for injuries at the scene which would be an important fact to put in a story. I could be wrong on that...
 
2012-05-17 11:14:06 AM

Baryogenesis: cretinbob: Intermediate means not contact, so yeah like 3" to several feet.. I think the fact that Taryvon had no other injuries besides a small abrasion on one finger is the real tell here. If he had beaten the shiat out of Zimmerman, then there'd be more than that. Anyway, this is bad news....for racist douchebags.

It seems like he might have gotten one good hit to the nose which caused him to fall and hit his head or he was taken to the ground first and then hit in the nose. A beating would have left more marks on both men.

redmid17: The author of the book seems to be sufficiently "experty," as he is a certified pathologist who's done forensic work for a long, long time.

Ah, CBS has a better analysis than that other link.

The reports also noted the fatal wound's surrounded by a two-by-two inch pattern called stippling, caused by gunpower burns. It suggests Zimmerman fired inches away from the teenager.

Now, I'd like to know the angle of entry and if it suggests the gun was fired with Zimmerman on his back or standing up and level. I still can't see how a gunshot to the chest of a man on top of you wouldn't get you covered in blood. The body would fall on top of you, too, allowing for more blood to flow out. In the video of Zimmerman at the police station after the shooting, he doesn't appear to have any blood or blood stains on him or his clothes. And I don't recall reading about a 'blood stained' Zimmerman being treated for injuries at the scene which would be an important fact to put in a story. I could be wrong on that...


It isn't like TV or the movies represent gunshot wounds, especially torso/center mass shots.
The skin and outer tissues are remarkably elastic, and the most common self defense rounds (.38 cal/9mm) make a very small entrance wound, that can appear closed upon examination. Plus, the thoracic and abdominal cavities tend to bleed more internally, unless a major vessel is affected.
Also, clothing can absorb quite a bit of spatter.
Fact is, if the heart stops beating quickly, blood pressure drops and that impairs external bleed out as well.

So, in short, it's very possible TM could have been on top of GZ, been shot, GM rolls TM off and gets up, and he has not a drop on him.
 
2012-05-17 11:30:56 AM
In other words the pussy got his ass handed to him (after being told to NOT engage the "suspect" by the police!) so he shot Trayvon.

/biatch Ass punk with a gun
//Trayvon ahd every RIGHT to be in that neighborhood...Oh...he was black...never mind.
///Asshole
 
2012-05-17 11:57:50 AM
moonbattery.com
 
2012-05-17 12:03:23 PM

Baryogenesis: Now, I'd like to know the angle of entry and if it suggests the gun was fired with Zimmerman on his back or standing up and level. I still can't see how a gunshot to the chest of a man on top of you wouldn't get you covered in blood. The body would fall on top of you, too, allowing for more blood to flow out. In the video of Zimmerman at the police station after the shooting, he doesn't appear to have any blood or blood stains on him or his clothes. And I don't recall reading about a 'blood stained' Zimmerman being treated for injuries at the scene which would be an important fact to put in a story. I could be wrong on that...


Angle of entry won't be an important consideration. Since Treyvon's autopsy has been completed it's possible the coroner has commented on the angle of entry. That said, keep in mind the account of events: Treyvon on top of Zimmerman beating him (per an eyewitness) and Zimmerman firing. You might think that the wound angle on Treyvon would be angled up but then again, if he is on top of Zimmerman we kind of assume he's straddling him. That's not been described anywhere so we could be entirely wrong on that. My guess is that he was off to one side (likely Zimmerman's left side) and was down on him beating him. If Zim produces the pistol in his right hand and rolls left to clear his arm thrusting the pistol at the kid while firing then it's entirely possible the wound would be close to horizontal. The point is: while the angle is interesting, it's not conclusive of any positioning of the two combatants.

Regardless, there's nothing to say that Treyvon's torso was in an upright position or that Zimmerman's pistol wasn't produced and fired from a horizontal angle. To beat someone who's down on the ground you have to...well...bend over. Treyvon's torso almost certainly wasn't vertical then. At that point, the angle of the entry wound becomes almost irrelevant in trying to piece together who was where when the shot was fired.

The round wasn't instantly fatal because Treyvon moved away at least a little bit from the point where he was shot because he was found face down but the entry wound was on his chest. So, trying to infer anything about the angle produces nothing but subjective conclusions and nothing concrete.
 
2012-05-17 01:16:06 PM

cretinbob: I think the fact that Taryvon had no other injuries besides a small abrasion on one finger is the real tell here. If he had beaten the shiat out of Zimmerman, then there'd be more than that.


So Martin used his fist to smash Zimmerman's head into the ground? He used his fists to reach for the gun? All we know for sure is that Martin landed one clean punch to Zimmerman's nose. How the fark do we know how damaged Martin's knuckles should be when we have no farking idea how many times he landed punches and what those punches hit?

You can do better, can't you? By the way, you're the racist here.
 
2012-05-17 01:58:31 PM
Zimmerman had a friend beat him up to show injuries to the doctor the next day. The defense should jump on this - there's no medical record within a pertinent time period from the 911 call. Anyone could have beat the shiat out of him.
 
2012-05-17 02:02:51 PM

9beers: cretinbob: I think the fact that Taryvon had no other injuries besides a small abrasion on one finger is the real tell here. If he had beaten the shiat out of Zimmerman, then there'd be more than that.

So Martin used his fist to smash Zimmerman's head into the ground? He used his fists to reach for the gun? All we know for sure is that Martin landed one clean punch to Zimmerman's nose. How the fark do we know how damaged Martin's knuckles should be when we have no farking idea how many times he landed punches and what those punches hit?

You can do better, can't you? By the way, you're the racist here.



I know you think you're good at it, but really you suck at trolling.

So everyone who doesn't blindly believe Zimmerman is a racist? Nice.
 
2012-05-17 02:11:12 PM

cretinbob: So everyone who doesn't blindly believe Zimmerman is a racist? Nice.


No, you're a racist because of the comments you made above about it being bad news for racists. Those of us in these threads that are on Zimmerman's side are citing evidence and facts to come to the conclusion that he's not guilty of a crime. Racists like you are assuming that he's guilty because he killed a black kid. How about citing some facts that lead you to believe he's guilty, can your racist ass do that?

/racist!
 
2012-05-17 02:20:53 PM

thetubameister: Zimmerman had a friend beat him up to show injuries to the doctor the next day. The defense should jump on this - there's no medical record within a pertinent time period from the 911 call. Anyone could have beat the shiat out of him.


Other than the police report?
 
2012-05-17 02:26:43 PM

thetubameister: there's no medical record within a pertinent time period from the 911 call.


The police report
The paramedics paperwork
Photo of Zimmerman's head taken by a neighbor
Photo of Zimmerman's face taken by police
Videotape at police station
Testimony of multiple officers and paramedics.

You're right, there's absolutely nothing that proves he was injured.
 
2012-05-17 06:10:03 PM
Also, "intermediate range" is defined by coroners to be 1 to 18 inches away.

As an American who while not owning guns has plenty of experience using them, I say 1 to 18 inches is point-blank range.

In fact, if you miss your target at that range, you're either drunk, blind, suffer from some form of palsy, or you're just plain doing it wrong.
 
2012-05-17 06:34:25 PM
Holy shiat, they just released all the evidence.

Trayvon's blood tests were positive for weed.
Trayvon's father told police it wasn't his son screaming for help
Witnesses saw Trayvon throwing punches at Zimmerman "MMA style"
 
2012-05-17 06:46:26 PM

9beers: keepitcherry: Aren't you late for your Klan meeting?

Shouldn't you be out apologizing to a black person?


OK, this right here is funny.

UCFRoadWarrior: Listening to these Black Racist Thug Farkers and the White Guilt Liberal Farkers....they just wanna lynch Zimmerman.


That's about the truth of it.
It's so rampant that when I mention that my keyboard is black, I'm called a racist.

Ultra liberals are just as racist/bigoted as those they accuse. Being on the perceived moral high ground does not validate their inanity. Indignorant morons.
 
2012-05-17 06:48:33 PM

9beers: Holy shiat, they just released all the evidence.

Trayvon's blood tests were positive for weed.
Trayvon's father told police it wasn't his son screaming for help
Witnesses saw Trayvon throwing punches at Zimmerman "MMA style"


Yeah, I heard it on the national news(cbs I think) and figured I'd hit up fark, heh.
Main page - F3 - Zimm ---Yup, there it is.
 
2012-05-17 06:51:10 PM
The kid had it coming. Beating an old man. We need a lot more vigilante justice in our neighborhoods. I don't feel safe at night anymore.
 
2012-05-17 06:52:50 PM
Links here:

Link
 
2012-05-17 06:53:08 PM
The new picture is telling as well. A lot of small nicks on Zimmerman's face and an obviously messed up nose.

i.usatoday.net
 
2012-05-17 06:56:32 PM
They recovered 40 bucks from Trayvon's pockets. Gee, I wonder where that money came from.
 
2012-05-17 07:16:56 PM
www.news4jax.com
www.news4jax.com
www.news4jax.com
www.news4jax.com
www.news4jax.com

Seems pretty clear that Zimmerman was being hammered pretty good, but was it enough of a beating to justify potentially lethal force in self defense?

Maybe Zimmerman should have waited until he lost some teeth, an eye and a testicle or two before pulling his gun on the innocent child?

New thread in the wings...
 
2012-05-17 08:11:23 PM
Trayvon did it.
 
2012-05-17 08:41:58 PM
This report, is pretty much damning. I'd say this whole episode is almost over and ready to go in the file of Duke Lacrosse and other media manufactured outrages.
 
2012-05-17 08:47:04 PM
Did I miss Zimmerman's statements in there somewhere? The lead investigator said during the bond hearing that there were inconsistencies in Zimmerman's statements so I'd really like to see them.
 
2012-05-17 08:48:05 PM
Anybody else read the multiple parts where Zimmerman was on the ground ALONE calling for help? And only after that did somebody wind up on top of him and beating him, resulting in a self-defense shooting?

Sounds like... well kind of like the original story. The kid clocked him out, then came back in to finish the job. At this point I would not be surprised if it turned out that zimmerman was actually blacked out for a short while and the kid tried to "shut him up" when he came to and started screaming.
 
2012-05-17 09:06:14 PM
Apparently "the weapon used was a .9mm handgun."
I'm not buying that story, coppers.
 
2012-05-17 09:08:32 PM
Nice haircut.

But someone should tell the Barber to be more careful, he nicked him a bit there.

New Photo

www.news4jax.com

Old Photo

cbsmiami.files.wordpress.com

/Just a little off the top please
 
2012-05-17 09:27:32 PM

9beers: Did I miss Zimmerman's statements in there somewhere? The lead investigator said during the bond hearing that there were inconsistencies in Zimmerman's statements so I'd really like to see them.


This was just the valid evidence so far in the trial. When he takes the stand, if he takes the stand, then it's the evidence of this trial. If that makes sense. Sure, the bond hearing may be cited, but is part of it's own court procedure and not necessarily applicable here.

There were some awfully large parts blacked out though.

I liked the part where it said something to the akin to, "it would have been avoidable if he'd not followed". Derp. Same argument we've been shooting down from the get go. Take that crap into court and it'll get ripped to shreds by any half-whit attorney.

He was also not simply allowed to go home with his gun like everyone was claiming.

Last bit... Compare the bridge of his nose, lots of swelling between the eyes. I just bump my nose and it's farking painful and disorienting, can't imagine getting jumped by someone and having it broken. That'd throw anyone into a panic.
 
2012-05-17 09:33:20 PM

omeganuepsilon: 9beers: Did I miss Zimmerman's statements in there somewhere? The lead investigator said during the bond hearing that there were inconsistencies in Zimmerman's statements so I'd really like to see them.

This was just the valid evidence so far in the trial. When he takes the stand, if he takes the stand, then it's the evidence of this trial. If that makes sense. Sure, the bond hearing may be cited, but is part of it's own court procedure and not necessarily applicable here.

There were some awfully large parts blacked out though.

I liked the part where it said something to the akin to, "it would have been avoidable if he'd not followed". Derp. Same argument we've been shooting down from the get go. Take that crap into court and it'll get ripped to shreds by any half-whit attorney.

He was also not simply allowed to go home with his gun like everyone was claiming.

Last bit... Compare the bridge of his nose, lots of swelling between the eyes. I just bump my nose and it's farking painful and disorienting, can't imagine getting jumped by someone and having it broken. That'd throw anyone into a panic.


Yeah the whole 'avoidable' thing is a whole non-starter anyway. There have been 2 cases where people specifically armed themselves to pursue someone, killed a person, and it was dismissed under SYG. Those two situations were avoidable as well.
 
2012-05-17 09:52:06 PM

omeganuepsilon: There were some awfully large parts blacked out though.


I went back and looked again, one of Zimmerman's statements to police is there but the entire thing is blacked out.

I was wondering why so much was blacked out. Other than the names of witnesses and I guess Zimmerman's statement, I don't understand why anything else would be. There are even some parts blacked out that make you wonder what the hell they're trying to hide because they're statements about conversations with other officials involved with the investigation.
 
2012-05-17 10:18:20 PM

9beers: There are even some parts blacked out that make you wonder what the hell they're trying to hide because they're statements about conversations with other officials involved with the investigation.


They are trying to deflect scrutiny from their own farkup.

Dead black kid
Florida cops
They know who shot him
Non-investigation (initially)

How do you think that looks, to a black person? "Yeah, the police do not care when a black kid gets shot, no matter who did it or why they did it. Just another dead Negro."

Given this is Florida, that happens a LOT more than people think. Even in 2012. And that is what got this whole thing attention in the first place. Dead black kid, admitted shooter let go. No investigation. And that is where the cops farked up first.

Go on...convince me that if this had been a hoodie wearing white kid, in shot in exactly the same circumstances, that the local PD would have just blown it off. And if they had...the media would have exploded. But in the other direction.

/missing white girl syndrome
 
2012-05-17 10:24:21 PM

YouPeopleAreCrazy: Go on...convince me that if this had been a hoodie wearing white kid, in shot in exactly the same circumstances, that the local PD would have just blown it off.


You might want to actually read through the documents. They show that there was an investigation taking place and that a lot of what people assumed was wrong. For example, Zimmerman was not allowed to leave the police station in the clothes he was wearing, his wife brought a change of clothes to the station and what he was wearing was taken into evidence.
 
2012-05-17 10:53:52 PM

9beers: YouPeopleAreCrazy: Go on...convince me that if this had been a hoodie wearing white kid, in shot in exactly the same circumstances, that the local PD would have just blown it off.

You might want to actually read through the documents. They show that there was an investigation taking place and that a lot of what people assumed was wrong. For example, Zimmerman was not allowed to leave the police station in the clothes he was wearing, his wife brought a change of clothes to the station and what he was wearing was taken into evidence.


This.

Lack of charges immediately.(truth) =/= Lack of investigation.(ignorant rumor)

Also, just as an aside, they used the iced tea as a paperweight(heh) on the sheet over TM's body. Had a couple of sentences dedicated to answering WTF is this can?
lol
 
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