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(AOL)   University issues new contract requiring faculty to accept "Personal Lifestyle Pledge". Faculty members respond with "How about no? Does no work for you? And by the way, we're out of here "   (jobs.aol.com) divider line 243
    More: Hero, religious fundamentalism, General Social Survey, Inside Higher Ed, American Taliban, premarital sex, rituals, faculty, Yale University  
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26639 clicks; posted to Main » on 16 May 2012 at 1:45 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-16 05:40:41 AM  

Nadie_AZ: Ah Baptists. Is there anything they don't hate?


The Caulk!
 
2012-05-16 05:57:02 AM  
I suppose they got what they wanted. They can now hire the christian taliban they wish.
 
2012-05-16 06:00:48 AM  

usernameguy: WhyteRaven74: legendary: , the Georgia Supreme Court ruled that Shorter's board didn't have the power to do that.

That confuses me to no end. Why would a private institution not have the power to enter into or leave whatever affiliations it wants? I'd love to know what the state's supreme court reasoning behind that one was

Georgia supreme court.


I'm guessing they receive some sort of state funding.
 
2012-05-16 06:02:10 AM  
A university in Georgia is bleeding faculty after adding a new section to employee contracts last October. The "Personal Lifestyle Statement" requires employees to reject homosexuality, premarital sex, adultery, drug use and public drinking near campus. It also mandates that staff be active in a local church.

/Good luck with that. Let me know how your new classes are going now that you have no staff. Perhaps jesus will come down and teach classes now that you've run everyone off with your retarded draconian rules. Idiots.
 
2012-05-16 06:03:13 AM  

bdub77: Hell, isn't the whole point of being a university professor to bang as many college chicks as possible? I would sign a pledge like that.


Agrees.
 
2012-05-16 06:15:49 AM  

Bit'O'Gristle: Perhaps jesus will come down and teach classes now that you've run everyone off with your retarded draconian rules. Idiots.


Pretty sure Jesus would have trouble signing that contract as well.
 
2012-05-16 06:21:20 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: Looks like Shorter University is going to be...

...a little short staffed.

/what the hell do you expect from me at 340-drunk in the mornig?


Hire taller staff I need a taco.
 
2012-05-16 06:22:18 AM  

Bhasayate: WhyteRaven74: apoptotic: Wow. The way that's worded it appears they could nail someone for breaking the pledge if they found out that person had a glass of wine in a restaurant while on vacation anywhere in the world.

It also indicates the people running the school have no idea at all about Jesus. He after all did the whole water into wine thing at a wedding feast. The man was not in any way opposed to having a good time.

kimwim: Assistant Professor of Christian Studies

When you're a Christian school who loses a professor of Christian Studies due to your new policies, you may have gone too far.

And there is some verse, I believe in Timothy or something, where Paul specifically tells someone to have a glass of wine with their meals.

1 Timothy 5:23 "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent" illnesses. http://bible.cc/1_timothy/5-23.htm

Of course, they might say "Oh, it's just for medicinal purposes."

But then what about that whole drinking communion wine thing? No, Christians saying "you can't ever ever drink alcohol" is pretty silly.


The reasonably sane Christian denominations recognize that there is, in fact, no verse in the New Testament where drinking alcohol is outright banned. The prohibition is against getting drunk, specifically getting drunk to the point where you lose control of your own actions, speech, decision-making capability, self-control, etc. Nothing at all against "having a drink".

If one chooses to ensure that one won't get too drunk by the route of not ever having a drink, that's okay. But too many of them confuse the goal itself with one of the methods of achieving that goal, and then believe that no other methods exist.

/very thankful my church was (in retrospect) very liberal
//was still raised in a teetotalling family
///now I enjoy a good Belgian ale
 
2012-05-16 06:26:58 AM  

over_and_done: The reasonably sane Christian denominations recognize that there is, in fact, no verse in the New Testament where drinking alcohol is outright banned. The prohibition is against getting drunk, specifically getting drunk to the point where you lose control of your own actions, speech, decision-making capability, self-control, etc. Nothing at all against "having a drink".


Hell, through the majority of the dark ages (thanks for bringing us that, guys. very Christian of you) the alcohol was infinitely safer than drinking the water.

True story.
 
2012-05-16 06:32:03 AM  
I hate Southern Baptists
 
2012-05-16 06:41:13 AM  
i didn't think this was gonna make fark. awesome. i attend georgia highlands which has a campus near shorter. news of this broke some time ago. apparently it gutted their whole nursing program too. since all these anouncements came so late in the current semester, alot of people who were signed up for the new semester ended up losing their classes. it was too late for them to transfer schools and alot of shorter students will end up getting their schooling delayed.

god someone help them. i would hate to be stuck in that mess.
 
2012-05-16 06:46:11 AM  

SkunkWerks: over_and_done: The reasonably sane Christian denominations recognize that there is, in fact, no verse in the New Testament where drinking alcohol is outright banned. The prohibition is against getting drunk, specifically getting drunk to the point where you lose control of your own actions, speech, decision-making capability, self-control, etc. Nothing at all against "having a drink".

Hell, through the majority of the dark ages (thanks for bringing us that, guys. very Christian of you) the alcohol was infinitely safer than drinking the water.

True story.


Zosimus, is that you?
 
2012-05-16 06:49:24 AM  

Ace of Swords: Zosimus, is that you?


I dunno, is that the sort of thing you'd normally ask a guy conspicuously not named Zosimus?
 
2012-05-16 06:55:00 AM  

I sound fat: Wait, if they are allowed to do this because they have the right to enforce their religious beliefs upon their employees, how come it stops at sex and drinking? Shouldnt there be a much more inclusive clause for things such as suicide, cursing, respecting the sabath and coveting?

If you choose to enforce just PART of your beliefs, who decides which ones? seems like you could overturn the exception that has been granted to them.


Like most organised religions, it is mostly about selective reading of inconsistent archaic texts to support an agenda of control over a community.
 
2012-05-16 07:11:00 AM  
To those who quit in protest: "Congratulations and "more power to you!" I hope the darkest hour is just before the dawn and we've turned a corner.

If there's a fund to help those who have quit, I'd happily kick in a few bucks.
 
2012-05-16 07:14:03 AM  
I'd never sign a contract saying that I had to hate/love/accept anything that didn't directly affect me doing my jorb.
 
2012-05-16 07:38:20 AM  

Pichu0102: Benevolent Misanthrope: The only remedy for sin is personal salvation through faith alone in Jesus Christ, wholly apart from human merit and works.

No. That is not how it works. You do good deeds, regardless of if you believe in God or not, you go to heaven. You do evil deeds, you are required to reflect on your misdeeds in life, and once you have atoned, you are allowed into heaven. There is no hell.
Any God who would deny entry to the afterlife based solely on if you believed on him or not, or one that would truly create a place of eternal suffering such as hell, even for the people most vicious during their few decades on this Earth not only deserves no respect, but actively deserves absolute hatred.


Most, ok some, Christian sects take it from a slightly different point of view. It isn't God who denies you heaven, but your own choice. If you hate him so much that you totally repudiate everything about her, you've chosen to remove yourself permanently. Not torture, per se, just an eternity without His love.

Granted, that's all theological posturing. Who knows.
 
2012-05-16 07:40:41 AM  

ChubbyTiger: Pichu0102: Benevolent Misanthrope: The only remedy for sin is personal salvation through faith alone in Jesus Christ, wholly apart from human merit and works.

No. That is not how it works. You do good deeds, regardless of if you believe in God or not, you go to heaven. You do evil deeds, you are required to reflect on your misdeeds in life, and once you have atoned, you are allowed into heaven. There is no hell.
Any God who would deny entry to the afterlife based solely on if you believed on him or not, or one that would truly create a place of eternal suffering such as hell, even for the people most vicious during their few decades on this Earth not only deserves no respect, but actively deserves absolute hatred.

Most, ok some, Christian sects take it from a slightly different point of view. It isn't God who denies you heaven, but your own choice. If you hate him so much that you totally repudiate everything about her, you've chosen to remove yourself permanently. Not torture, per se, just an eternity without His love.

Granted, that's all theological posturing. Who knows.


That's true. Many religious people like to blame the victim and let their immoral deity off the hook.
 
2012-05-16 07:42:50 AM  
Sounds like it's a good opportunity for some lucky new teachers!
 
2012-05-16 07:48:13 AM  

SkunkWerks: Ace of Swords: Zosimus, is that you?

I dunno, is that the sort of thing you'd normally ask a guy conspicuously not named Zosimus?


Sure. I LARP.
 
2012-05-16 07:48:22 AM  
I hope every new faculty person who gets a job there does so strictly to troll them and file lawsuits about their stupid new lifestyle pledge.

Either that, or their replacement faculty are going to be a joke. Chances are pretty good if you have the narrow mind to sign a pledge like that, you're also not exactly top in your field when it comes to your subject matter. Just a hunch.

wtfcontent.com
 
2012-05-16 07:49:36 AM  
Resigning is the coward's way out. They should have gone full Office Space.

It's not like any real colleges were going to be beating down their door with Shorter on their resume, anyway.
 
2012-05-16 07:57:53 AM  
I'm a faculty member leaving Shorter. It used to be a great place to work with really good Science and Music programs. Since the fundies took over, the've been pushing things every year. This fall they sprung this on us without warning and the president said in the meeting, and I quote "I won't give you the actual statements right now. It wouldn't be fair." We had to go home and check our e-mail to see what we were going to have to sign.
More than 60 faculty and staff are or will leave this year, with a terrible job market and not enough warning to do a good job search (The academic search is an 8 month process) still almost all of us are looking.

/Got a sweet job
//and a 30% pay raise
///Christian and getting to the point where I hate to hear "Jeeeesuuusss"
It's sad
 
2012-05-16 07:58:54 AM  

Crudbucket: WhyteRaven74: apoptotic: Wow. The way that's worded it appears they could nail someone for breaking the pledge if they found out that person had a glass of wine in a restaurant while on vacation anywhere in the world.

It also indicates the people running the school have no idea at all about Jesus. He after all did the whole water into wine thing at a wedding feast. The man was not in any way opposed to having a good time.

I asked a fundamentalist teetotaler coworker about that once, and he claimed that either the word "wine" was a mistranslation or that what they called wine back then was actually non-alcoholic. I don't remember specifically what he said, but they are indoctrinated against that argument.


I've read those arguments, that Jews didn't drink alcohol and so on. The word used in the NT is "oinos", which is definitely wine.
 
2012-05-16 08:10:31 AM  

turnmeister: I'm a faculty member leaving Shorter. It used to be a great place to work with really good Science and Music programs. Since the fundies took over, the've been pushing things every year. This fall they sprung this on us without warning and the president said in the meeting, and I quote "I won't give you the actual statements right now. It wouldn't be fair."


Heh... fair to whom, exactly?

When I saw the headline I figured there might be ten or fifteen of you quitting, perhaps half a department or something. I was totally not expecting the decision to be nearly unanimous. Good on yall for telling these intolerant fools where to stick it.
 
2012-05-16 08:15:58 AM  

dorko16: I think it's fantastic. You see, I want the American Taliban to be as loud and obnoxious as they can be. It's good to have these cretins out of the shadows.


i121.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-16 08:16:07 AM  

Ace of Swords: SkunkWerks: Ace of Swords: Zosimus, is that you?

I dunno, is that the sort of thing you'd normally ask a guy conspicuously not named Zosimus?

Sure. I LARP.


LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT! LIGHTNING BOLT!
 
2012-05-16 08:17:50 AM  
In other news. Private religious institutions have been saying no to sex, drugs, and sometimes dancing on campus, since before I was born in the 70s.
 
2012-05-16 08:20:59 AM  
Different sects of Christians have their own versions of the Bible. While the Roman Catholic Bible may say one thing, the Baptist version will most likely have a different translation. I've seen versions where whole passages of the New Testament are missing. Therefore it is possible that the Baptist version has a rule regarding abstaining from alcohol.
 
2012-05-16 08:28:08 AM  

ChubbyTiger: Pichu0102: Benevolent Misanthrope: The only remedy for sin is personal salvation through faith alone in Jesus Christ, wholly apart from human merit and works.

No. That is not how it works. You do good deeds, regardless of if you believe in God or not, you go to heaven. You do evil deeds, you are required to reflect on your misdeeds in life, and once you have atoned, you are allowed into heaven. There is no hell.
Any God who would deny entry to the afterlife based solely on if you believed on him or not, or one that would truly create a place of eternal suffering such as hell, even for the people most vicious during their few decades on this Earth not only deserves no respect, but actively deserves absolute hatred.

Most, ok some, Christian sects take it from a slightly different point of view. It isn't God who denies you heaven, but your own choice. If you hate him so much that you totally repudiate everything about her, you've chosen to remove yourself permanently. Not torture, per se, just an eternity without His love.

Granted, that's all theological posturing. Who knows.


You have a choice to be born?
 
2012-05-16 08:28:37 AM  
I'm actually surprised they didn't already have this in their contract.

The school will be better off in the end. They will have teachers who actually believe/teach the way they intend and students who attend the university won't get stuck with teachers who believe/teach otherwise.
 
2012-05-16 08:30:40 AM  

Winterssnowykiss: different translation.


I read this as "rewritten by guys for whom its stated message wasn't a convenient narrative for at the time". Moreover I'm pretty sure that's a common feature to all the religions that invest such a literal and immutable-word-of-God-kinda importance in the thing. Ironic that the concept of relentless permanence results in so many convenient permutations of an "unquestionable authority" like that, eh?

Not that I take the book (or it's various "translations") very seriously. This being chief among the reasons I don't. At some point, sane people have to admit that it was written (and edited) by committee. A committee of men. Men with agendas that sometimes have piousness in mind, but demonstrably very often don't.
 
2012-05-16 08:40:04 AM  

kukukupo: I'm actually surprised they didn't already have this in their contract.

The school will be better off in the end. They will have teachers who actually believe/teach the way they intend and students who attend the university won't get stuck with teachers who believe/teach otherwise.


*head pat* It's ok. I missed the part of the thread where the school was compared to an American madrassa too. It sounds like the school would be better off if it were closed, burnt, buried, paved over and replaced with something more inclusive and forgiving, such as a whites-only all-male golf course.
 
2012-05-16 08:43:32 AM  

ArkAngel: If you don't want to sign pledges like this, don't work at a batshiat crazy Baptist school.

Simple as that. And now the free market will destroy them because they decided to be so batshiat crazy Baptist.


Bears repeating.
 
2012-05-16 08:43:53 AM  
My own policy is not to get involved with groups of religious people, unless I'm trying to subvert their message or fark their women.
 
2012-05-16 08:43:58 AM  
This is just a microcosmic echo of what is going to happen in all these states that are passing these ridiculous religion inspired laws. The women, the young, and the smart are going to leave. And the spreading ripples of unintended consequences are going to teach America a well-needed, if terribly expensive lesson.
So pay attention, you dumb motherf**kers.
 
2012-05-16 08:50:47 AM  

kimwim: The Employment section on their website so far


Oh wow..... I guess the article wasn't joking around. Good riddance and I hope those who quit will be able to find jobs with a non-derpy institution.
 
2012-05-16 08:51:05 AM  

turnmeister: I'm a faculty member leaving Shorter. It used to be a great place to work with really good Science and Music programs. Since the fundies took over, the've been pushing things every year. This fall they sprung this on us without warning and the president said in the meeting, and I quote "I won't give you the actual statements right now. It wouldn't be fair." We had to go home and check our e-mail to see what we were going to have to sign.
More than 60 faculty and staff are or will leave this year, with a terrible job market and not enough warning to do a good job search (The academic search is an 8 month process) still almost all of us are looking.

/Got a sweet job
//and a 30% pay raise
///Christian and getting to the point where I hate to hear "Jeeeesuuusss"
It's sad


No, it's not sad, it is a good thing when people openly push their vile beliefs so that everyone can see them for what they really are. Maybe this would be a good time to reevaluate your beliefs in light of what the funnies have done. It seems to me that everything in the pledge (with the exception of the alcohol thing) is in fact biblically based. If you reject parts of the bible why not the whole thing?
 
2012-05-16 08:54:59 AM  

Bhasayate: WhyteRaven74: apoptotic: Wow. The way that's worded it appears they could nail someone for breaking the pledge if they found out that person had a glass of wine in a restaurant while on vacation anywhere in the world.

It also indicates the people running the school have no idea at all about Jesus. He after all did the whole water into wine thing at a wedding feast. The man was not in any way opposed to having a good time.

kimwim: Assistant Professor of Christian Studies

When you're a Christian school who loses a professor of Christian Studies due to your new policies, you may have gone too far.

And there is some verse, I believe in Timothy or something, where Paul specifically tells someone to have a glass of wine with their meals.

1 Timothy 5:23 "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent" illnesses. http://bible.cc/1_timothy/5-23.htm

Of course, they might say "Oh, it's just for medicinal purposes."

But then what about that whole drinking communion wine thing? No, Christians saying "you can't ever ever drink alcohol" is pretty silly.


Baptists don't drink wine at communion; it's grape juice.
 
2012-05-16 08:55:27 AM  

jso2897: This is just a microcosmic echo of what is going to happen in all these states that are passing these ridiculous religion inspired laws. The women, the young, and the smart are going to leave. And the spreading ripples of unintended consequences are going to teach America a well-needed, if terribly expensive lesson.
So pay attention, you dumb motherf**kers.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-05-16 08:56:24 AM  
They're not handing this out to the general public. This is something that the faculty of a school is being asked to abide by. Would you rather they be hypocrites and let people who openly engage in what they call sin work there or would you prefer that they not hire people like that? There is no hatred in this contract that I can see. There is a fundamental difference in holding leaders to a high moral standard and being like Westboro Baptist.

Oh wait, this is the Internet. RELIGION OF PEACE. Right?
 
2012-05-16 08:57:26 AM  

Bluto Blutarsky: Bhasayate: WhyteRaven74: apoptotic: Wow. The way that's worded it appears they could nail someone for breaking the pledge if they found out that person had a glass of wine in a restaurant while on vacation anywhere in the world.

It also indicates the people running the school have no idea at all about Jesus. He after all did the whole water into wine thing at a wedding feast. The man was not in any way opposed to having a good time.

kimwim: Assistant Professor of Christian Studies

When you're a Christian school who loses a professor of Christian Studies due to your new policies, you may have gone too far.

And there is some verse, I believe in Timothy or something, where Paul specifically tells someone to have a glass of wine with their meals.

1 Timothy 5:23 "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent" illnesses. http://bible.cc/1_timothy/5-23.htm

Of course, they might say "Oh, it's just for medicinal purposes."

But then what about that whole drinking communion wine thing? No, Christians saying "you can't ever ever drink alcohol" is pretty silly.

Baptists don't drink wine at communion; it's grape juice.


I went to a church a few times where they made a point of stating that the communion wine was only grape juice. Of course, they had a specific outreach to alcoholics, and several recovering members.
 
2012-05-16 08:58:22 AM  

WorldCitizen: I realize there are idiots who manage to get PhD's. I realize that there are fundie schools that hand out PhD's to other fundies after what I'm guessing is not a very truly rigorously intellectual program. However, even with that, it seems like it would be difficult to find enough people with PhD's to fill a faculty at any university with any sizable student population with those requirements. And what reasonable employer outside of some other batshiat fundie organization is going to hire someone with such a school on their resume?


When I read/hear about someone with a "doctorate" in biblical studies, jebus, new testiment, etc... I instantly put them in the don't-take-seriously file.
 
2012-05-16 08:59:35 AM  

AreWeReallyDoingThis: They're not handing this out to the general public. This is something that the faculty of a school is being asked to abide by. Would you rather they be hypocrites and let people who openly engage in what they call sin work there or would you prefer that they not hire people like that? There is no hatred in this contract that I can see. There is a fundamental difference in holding leaders to a high moral standard and being like Westboro Baptist.

Oh wait, this is the Internet. RELIGION OF PEACE. Right?


Regarding gay people: "I reject as acceptable all sexual activity not in agreement with the Bible, including, but not limited to, premarital sex, adultery, and homosexuality."

Are you really implying that the Bible represents a "high moral standard"?
 
2012-05-16 09:02:09 AM  
Every time I pass a church, I wonder what the world would look like if every church was a specialized vocational college where people of a particular discipline could share information and become more educated every Sunday, instead of talking to invisible unicorns or whatever they do in there.

My wife bought my son a picture book all about dragons. It struck me as stupid, since it doesn't matter a whit to be an all-fired expert on something that doesn't exist and never did. Better to learn about horses or the star-nosed mole.

It's just weird that so much attention is paid to things that don't exist compared to that which does. There are all kinds of kids who are into vampires, not so many into leprosy or legionnaire's disease. Everyone knows what Spontaneous Human Combustion is, but people don't know what Spina Bifida is.

People are stupid. Our culture values stupid things more highly than useful things.
 
2012-05-16 09:02:45 AM  

Two16: WorldCitizen: I realize there are idiots who manage to get PhD's. I realize that there are fundie schools that hand out PhD's to other fundies after what I'm guessing is not a very truly rigorously intellectual program. However, even with that, it seems like it would be difficult to find enough people with PhD's to fill a faculty at any university with any sizable student population with those requirements. And what reasonable employer outside of some other batshiat fundie organization is going to hire someone with such a school on their resume?

When I read/hear about someone with a "doctorate" in biblical studies, jebus, new testiment, etc... I instantly put them in the don't-take-seriously file.


Hey, stop being judgmental. Those doctorates in biblical studies require several weeks of grueling study by mail.
 
2012-05-16 09:03:29 AM  
It will be interesting to see how a school deals with losing almost its entire faculty. You know your school is in bad shape when almost the entire faculty resigns en masse as a protest against a new administration policy.

If they have difficulty staffing those positions, could their accreditation be endangered? Losing the bulk of your faculty and not being able to replace them with qualified faculty sounds like it's something that an accrediting agency would be interested in knowing about.

I know the academic job market is rough, so they may well get some desperate applicants who meet the requirements and will sign anything to get a job, but how will they cope with teaching in fundy-land? Will it be a revolving door of professors coming and going as they work there out of desperation, then leave/get fired when they can't deal with the ideological environment?
 
2012-05-16 09:06:48 AM  

Two16: WorldCitizen: I realize there are idiots who manage to get PhD's. I realize that there are fundie schools that hand out PhD's to other fundies after what I'm guessing is not a very truly rigorously intellectual program. However, even with that, it seems like it would be difficult to find enough people with PhD's to fill a faculty at any university with any sizable student population with those requirements. And what reasonable employer outside of some other batshiat fundie organization is going to hire someone with such a school on their resume?

When I read/hear about someone with a "doctorate" in biblical studies, jebus, new testiment, etc... I instantly put them in the don't-take-seriously file.


Yeah, the entire Bible has an insufficient amount of information for anyone to get a PhD. It would be like getting a PhD in Lore of Harry Potter, although there's more text about Harry Potter than there is about Jesus or Moses or everyone in the Bible combined.
So, if getting a PhD in Harry Potter sounds ridiculous to someone, but getting a PhD in Jesus Christ doesn't, the only logical explanation for that position is that there is a built in bullshiat filter located in some neuron group associated with Jesus Christ that is preventing them from recognizing bullshiat in that area.
 
2012-05-16 09:07:21 AM  

turnmeister: I'm a faculty member leaving Shorter. It used to be a great place to work with really good Science and Music programs. Since the fundies took over, the've been pushing things every year. This fall they sprung this on us without warning and the president said in the meeting, and I quote "I won't give you the actual statements right now. It wouldn't be fair." We had to go home and check our e-mail to see what we were going to have to sign.
More than 60 faculty and staff are or will leave this year, with a terrible job market and not enough warning to do a good job search (The academic search is an 8 month process) still almost all of us are looking.

/Got a sweet job
//and a 30% pay raise
///Christian and getting to the point where I hate to hear "Jeeeesuuusss"
It's sad


Good for you for standing up for what you believe in. Kudos.
 
2012-05-16 09:10:38 AM  

Pichu0102: Benevolent Misanthrope: The only remedy for sin is personal salvation through faith alone in Jesus Christ, wholly apart from human merit and works.

No. That is not how it works. You do good deeds, regardless of if you believe in God or not, you go to heaven. You do evil deeds, you are required to reflect on your misdeeds in life, and once you have atoned, you are allowed into heaven. There is no hell.
Any God who would deny entry to the afterlife based solely on if you believed on him or not, or one that would truly create a place of eternal suffering such as hell, even for the people most vicious during their few decades on this Earth not only deserves no respect, but actively deserves absolute hatred.


That is one of my most argued points. So if you led nearly the exact life of someone who was religious but you did not believe in god, you were to go to hell? If that is the case, hell is probably already completely full.
 
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