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(Hot Air)   Voting. So easy a someone pretending to be a non-citizen who can't vote under US law can do it   (hotair.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Department of Highways, driver's licenses, Wake County, Florida Department of Highway Safety, James O'Keefe, election officials, Division of Elections, Mary Landrieu  
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2727 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 May 2012 at 4:43 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-16 10:31:19 AM  
karnal, could you be a real bro and stop posting for a while in this thread? Don't be that guy. Thanks man.
 
2012-05-16 10:33:20 AM  
Don't blame me, I voted for O'Kodos
 
2012-05-16 10:34:30 AM  

Maud Dib: bulldg4life: I just want to know which account got toasted to get a five year old regard account come out of retirement.

I don't remember the karnal account being such a goddamned moron until it started posting heavily a couple weeks ago.

haven't seen winterwhuuut in awhile.

*rimshot*

Of course I may have it on ignore.


I've noticed him a couple of time lately. I do so miss our internet dentist, though.
 
2012-05-16 10:36:01 AM  

karnal: unexplained bacon


karnal: coeyagi

For my good friend that I have on ignore:


Thanks - they are very nice. Sorry, I didn't get you anything, Andy.

he wont see that you're on his ignore list

I've never ignored anyone but you're probably the most tempting farker I've seen.
nothing of value from you, only low brow partisan taunting. Not even actually RW talking points for us Dims to practice on, just crap.


Come on, Dim - ignore me.


I've gone this long without resorting to that, but you really are the worst thread shiatter I've seen.
Most TSers of your caliber will just do a quick post and run, but you stick around to make sure the thread is just covered in shiat.

I'm just wasting time here, so I guess I shouldn't be mad at you since clearly that's what you're doing, but you really do take the discourse down to playground level very effectively...have you tried yahoo politics threads? Fark threads look more and more like that thanks to you.

/mmmmm dim sum
 
2012-05-16 10:40:23 AM  
Republicans are racist for preventing people who are not American citizens from voting in American elections.
 
2012-05-16 10:40:37 AM  

gimmegimme: But if we do that, how will Republicans steal elections and funnel tax money to the private businesses that donate money to them?


If that's a problem for you then I'm assuming you're not voting for Obama. Oh you don't have to vote Republican, that's fine, but if the above is a problem for you and you're voting Obama then prepare to be laughed at.

Then again its becoming pretty common now for liberals to all but say "I don't care if the people I vote for are hypocrites or engage in the very things I proclaim to hate Republicans for... as long as they're liberal enough!"
 
2012-05-16 10:41:38 AM  

unexplained bacon: I've gone this long without resorting to that


I waited a looong time to start ignoring, but I got fed up. It's much more enjoyable to acknowledge the TSers, ignore 'em, and move on.
 
2012-05-16 10:43:11 AM  

beta_plus: many Republicans are racist for preventing people who are not American citizens from voting in American elections.


FTFY
 
2012-05-16 10:43:17 AM  

beta_plus: Republicans are racist for preventing people who are not American citizens from voting in American elections.


preventing something that, as far as I can tell, isn't really an actual problem (can you dig up some numbers that demonstrate this problem?).

Meanwhile, the country could really use their help getting some jobs, jobs, jobs going...what ever happened to that one?
 
2012-05-16 10:46:34 AM  

Salt Lick Steady: unexplained bacon: I've gone this long without resorting to that

I waited a looong time to start ignoring, but I got fed up. It's much more enjoyable to acknowledge the TSers, ignore 'em, and move on.


I usually just pass them over, but there are certain TSers who just flood a thread and pretty well ruin it. I don't know, maybe I'll ignore, I just worry that might mean I'm taking this too seriously, that horse may have left the barn however.
 
2012-05-16 10:49:38 AM  

RexTalionis: Hi. Thanks for documenting your voting fraud.


Done in one...
 
2012-05-16 10:55:39 AM  

karnal: Was it the Republicans that had ACORN register 1.3 million illegal aliens and homeless people to vote?


--citation needed--

Also, why are you trying to deprive homeless people of their constitutional right to vote? We're also going to need a citation as to where it is declared that if you don't have a place to live, then you don't get to vote.

So how many hours of crickets will we hear waiting for you to show your source on these two claims you made?
 
2012-05-16 10:57:38 AM  

Mikey1969: Also, why are you trying to deprive homeless people of their constitutional right to vote? We're also going to need a citation as to where it is declared that if you don't have a place to live, then you don't get to vote.

So how many hours of crickets will we hear waiting for you to show your source on these two claims you made?


It looks like he already tagged out for beta_plus, so I wouldn't hold my breath.
 
2012-05-16 11:00:45 AM  

usernameguy: karnal: Was it the Republicans that had ACORN register 1.3 million illegal aliens and homeless people to vote?

Homeless people are allowed to vote.


Only if they vote the way karnal wants them to.
 
2012-05-16 11:02:44 AM  

karnal: Sure....that is why Repubs are pushing for voter id - to make it easier to commit voter fraud. And that is why the Dims are against voter id - because it makes it easier to commit voter fraud. Makes perfect sense.


Yeah, look at the documented voter fraud on this very blog, committed by a Conservative, of course.
 
2012-05-16 11:05:23 AM  
As someone who has studied politics and worked with several campaigns, I have no problem with Voter ID laws. I understand the Democrats view on the issues, however, there have been primaries going on for months and the election isn't until November. If you can't get your head out of your ass between now and then to get a frikkin' ID card I will have no sympathy for you when you have problems on election day. Politics is not just a one day thing. If your vote is important to you, then pay attention and make sure you are appropriately registered. Don't blame one side or the other for you half-assed involvement.
 
2012-05-16 11:12:57 AM  

Anderson's Pooper: As someone who has studied politics and worked with several campaigns, I have no problem with Voter ID laws. I understand the Democrats view on the issues, however, there have been primaries going on for months and the election isn't until November. If you can't get your head out of your ass between now and then to get a frikkin' ID card I will have no sympathy for you when you have problems on election day. Politics is not just a one day thing. If your vote is important to you, then pay attention and make sure you are appropriately registered. Don't blame one side or the other for you half-assed involvement.


I agree with everything you wrote here.

But if that ID costs money, you can't make people produce it in order to vote. SCOTUS is very clear on this.

The solution is simple - make IDs free. But jagoffs who are looking to make this an issue aren't really interested in fixing the problem - they're far more interested in milking it for outrage.
 
2012-05-16 11:15:19 AM  

Anderson's Pooper: frikkin' ID card


poll tax
 
2012-05-16 11:16:31 AM  

Babwa Wawa: make IDs free


How do you make them free? Taxpayers would have to fund it somehow.
 
2012-05-16 11:17:40 AM  
Salt Lick Steady


unexplained bacon: I've gone this long without resorting to that

I waited a looong time to start ignoring, but I got fed up. It's much more enjoyable to acknowledge the TSers, ignore 'em, and move on.



Well - of course....it's the liberal way.
 
2012-05-16 11:19:38 AM  

Babwa Wawa: But jagoffs who are looking to make this an issue aren't really interested in fixing the problem


because there is no problem this begins and ends with disenfranchising voters.
 
2012-05-16 11:20:28 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: Babwa Wawa: make IDs free

How do you make them free? Taxpayers would have to fund it somehow.


I think the point is that voters would not have to pay for their own.
 
2012-05-16 11:21:52 AM  
Yes IF you happen to know the name and biographical details of someone who has ALREADY REGISTERED TO VOTE, and if you are willing to risk committing a federal felony to steal thier ballot you MAY be able to cast a single vote. And voter ID will solve this how? exactly. Ask any college studfent Fake Ids can be had for $10 or less with almost zero effort.

If you are still under the illusion that voter ID laws have the purpose of preventing voter fraud, then riddle me this: Why did the VA General Assembly reject the Governor's amendments to the voter ID law that would have created a database of voter's signatures as they appear on the voter ID card and put them on a netork that election judges could access and compare the signature of the person asking for the ballot to the one that is on file?

Wouldn't that serve the exact same purpose as showing ID and be less onerous for voters?

So why did the Va Gop reject the measure from thier own Governor?
 
2012-05-16 11:22:26 AM  

skullkrusher: JusticeandIndependence: Babwa Wawa: make IDs free

How do you make them free? Taxpayers would have to fund it somehow.

I think the point is that voters would not have to pay for their own.


and my point is that no matter what you do voters will have to pay for it somehow. Giving out a printed ID card still costs and someone has to pay for it.
 
2012-05-16 11:23:04 AM  

Anderson's Pooper: As someone who has studied politics and worked with several campaigns, I have no problem with Voter ID laws. I understand the Democrats view on the issues, however, there have been primaries going on for months and the election isn't until November. If you can't get your head out of your ass between now and then to get a frikkin' ID card I will have no sympathy for you when you have problems on election day. Politics is not just a one day thing. If your vote is important to you, then pay attention and make sure you are appropriately registered. Don't blame one side or the other for you half-assed involvement.


So you understand that they are unconstitutional and serve only to hurt the poor. Why do you support them then?
 
2012-05-16 11:23:57 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: skullkrusher: JusticeandIndependence: Babwa Wawa: make IDs free

How do you make them free? Taxpayers would have to fund it somehow.

I think the point is that voters would not have to pay for their own.

and my point is that no matter what you do voters will have to pay for it somehow. Giving out a printed ID card still costs and someone has to pay for it.


yes but it would not be an unconstitutional poll tax which is what "free" ID cards would avoid if they were to be required for voting.
 
2012-05-16 11:26:15 AM  

skullkrusher: JusticeandIndependence: skullkrusher: JusticeandIndependence: Babwa Wawa: make IDs free

How do you make them free? Taxpayers would have to fund it somehow.

I think the point is that voters would not have to pay for their own.

and my point is that no matter what you do voters will have to pay for it somehow. Giving out a printed ID card still costs and someone has to pay for it.

yes but it would not be an unconstitutional poll tax which is what "free" ID cards would avoid if they were to be required for voting.


You don't just get an ID via the honor system, you need a ridiculous amount of paperwork and some has to be purchased.
 
2012-05-16 11:27:15 AM  

beta_plus: Republicans are racist for preventing people who are not American citizens from voting in American elections.


Considering there virtually no evidence such a thing was occuring in the first place, Republicans have succeeded in only disenfranchising actual American citizens, most likely of the low income variety. Thanks for solving a non-existent problem assholes. Like banning Sharia law from our courts or banning gay marriage! You guys are really making things better.
 
2012-05-16 11:28:25 AM  

skullkrusher: yes but it would not be an unconstitutional poll tax which is what "free" ID cards would avoid if they were to be required for voting.


And it's a great idea on the surface, but not when you look at the origin of this "problem" and everything around it:

This is not a problem on the side of the voters. There is not a statistically significant instance of voter fraud in this country. Election problems are more often than not a case of ballot box stuffing, counting votes, or disenfranchisement of voters.

THESE MEASURES ARE DESIGNED TO CREATE ELECTION FRAUD, NOT LIMIT VOTER FRAUD. These are de facto attempts to keep voters from voting, because the affected groups are statistically more likely to vote Democrat. I don't care how good an idea free voter ideas sound, because the water has come from a poisoned well. This entire argument comes from a movement designed to prevent people from voting. It's in the name of preventing a problem that doesn't exist in a way that affects elections, and it's intended to affect elections.
 
2012-05-16 11:28:51 AM  

Mikey1969: karnal: Was it the Republicans that had ACORN register 1.3 million illegal aliens and homeless people to vote?

--citation needed--

Also, why are you trying to deprive homeless people of their constitutional right to vote? We're also going to need a citation as to where it is declared that if you don't have a place to live, then you don't get to vote.

So how many hours of crickets will we hear waiting for you to show your source on these two claims you made?


Actually the constitution itself only allows for land owners to vote, no women, no blacks. This is EXACTLY what the GOP wants/needs to stay relevant.
 
2012-05-16 11:31:19 AM  

skullkrusher: yes but it would not be an unconstitutional poll tax which is what "free" ID cards would avoid if they were to be required for voting.


That may be true, but how do you justify a massive government project to fix a problem that doesn't even exist.
 
2012-05-16 11:32:31 AM  

Anderson's Pooper: As someone who has studied politics and worked with several campaigns, I have no problem with Voter ID laws. I understand the Democrats view on the issues, however, there have been primaries going on for months and the election isn't until November. If you can't get your head out of your ass between now and then to get a frikkin' ID card I will have no sympathy for you when you have problems on election day. Politics is not just a one day thing. If your vote is important to you, then pay attention and make sure you are appropriately registered. Don't blame one side or the other for you half-assed involvement.


As someone who has a lot of experience with politics and campaigns are you aware of any examples of the kind of fraud these ID laws are designed to prevent? There must be plenty for our GOP lawmakers to be so concerned but I'm not seeing it.

If it is a real problem (citation needed) then as others have said the necessary IDs must be provided free. Wouldn't you agree? Otherwise that is a poll tax. Believe it or not to some folks 25 bucks is a lot of money.
 
2012-05-16 11:41:04 AM  

JusticeandIndependence: Babwa Wawa: make IDs free

How do you make them free? Taxpayers would have to fund it somehow.


and?

It wouldn't need to cost much money at all. Here's the scenario: If all you're looking for is ID, then there's no fee. But if you're looking for a driver's license, it costs XX. Well over 95% of the people who want ID also want a driver's license. A very small fraction of people would only seek the ID.

Like it or not though, if you want ID at the polls, then free ID is a requirement, because poll taxes are explicitly forbidden by the constitution (24th amendment, if memory serves).
 
2012-05-16 11:41:48 AM  

alowishus: skullkrusher: yes but it would not be an unconstitutional poll tax which is what "free" ID cards would avoid if they were to be required for voting.

That may be true, but how do you justify a massive government project to fix a problem that doesn't even exist.


hehe that's another matter entirely
 
2012-05-16 11:42:30 AM  

Bloody William: skullkrusher: yes but it would not be an unconstitutional poll tax which is what "free" ID cards would avoid if they were to be required for voting.

And it's a great idea on the surface, but not when you look at the origin of this "problem" and everything around it:

This is not a problem on the side of the voters. There is not a statistically significant instance of voter fraud in this country. Election problems are more often than not a case of ballot box stuffing, counting votes, or disenfranchisement of voters.

THESE MEASURES ARE DESIGNED TO CREATE ELECTION FRAUD, NOT LIMIT VOTER FRAUD. These are de facto attempts to keep voters from voting, because the affected groups are statistically more likely to vote Democrat. I don't care how good an idea free voter ideas sound, because the water has come from a poisoned well. This entire argument comes from a movement designed to prevent people from voting. It's in the name of preventing a problem that doesn't exist in a way that affects elections, and it's intended to affect elections.


I don't see a need for voter ID laws either. Was just answering the pregunta
 
2012-05-16 11:43:23 AM  

Headso: skullkrusher: JusticeandIndependence: skullkrusher: JusticeandIndependence: Babwa Wawa: make IDs free

How do you make them free? Taxpayers would have to fund it somehow.

I think the point is that voters would not have to pay for their own.

and my point is that no matter what you do voters will have to pay for it somehow. Giving out a printed ID card still costs and someone has to pay for it.

yes but it would not be an unconstitutional poll tax which is what "free" ID cards would avoid if they were to be required for voting.

You don't just get an ID via the honor system, you need a ridiculous amount of paperwork and some has to be purchased.


stick with the "Voter ID laws are unnecessary" tack.
 
2012-05-16 11:48:53 AM  

skullkrusher: stick with the "Voter ID laws are unnecessary" tack.


the argument against voter id laws is that they are not necessary, the argument against the idea of "free" voter ids is that they are effectively not free and will lead to the fees and availability of the prerequisite forms being a partisan issue.
 
2012-05-16 11:51:31 AM  

Headso: the argument against voter id laws is that they are not necessary


right.

Headso: the argument against the idea of "free" voter ids is that they are effectively not free and will lead to the fees and availability of the prerequisite forms being a partisan issue.


nor is voting if you have to pay for gas to get you to the polling station. If you can get a voter ID card for free by providing proof of residency it is no more onerous than registering to vote in the first place
 
2012-05-16 11:56:20 AM  

karnal:


Well - of course....it's the liberal way.


memedepot.com
 
2012-05-16 11:59:35 AM  
unexplained bacon


Anderson's Pooper: As someone who has studied politics and worked with several campaigns, I have no problem with Voter ID laws. I understand the Democrats view on the issues, however, there have been primaries going on for months and the election isn't until November. If you can't get your head out of your ass between now and then to get a frikkin' ID card I will have no sympathy for you when you have problems on election day. Politics is not just a one day thing. If your vote is important to you, then pay attention and make sure you are appropriately registered. Don't blame one side or the other for you half-assed involvement.

As someone who has a lot of experience with politics and campaigns are you aware of any examples of the kind of fraud these ID laws are designed to prevent? There must be plenty for our GOP lawmakers to be so concerned but I'm not seeing it.

If it is a real problem (citation needed) then as others have said the necessary IDs must be provided free. Wouldn't you agree? Otherwise that is a poll tax. Believe it or not to some folks 25 bucks is a lot of money.



The Obamacare bill explicitly states that in order for any individual to be eligible for a health insurance plan and health claim status, they will be issued a national health identification card....how is this different from voter id cards?
 
2012-05-16 12:01:55 PM  

randomjsa: We now have two groups of people.

People who recognize that the system is broken and want to fix it using IDs and people who recognize that the system is broken and like it that way.

Oh and the "Lalala! It's coming from a source we don't like so its ALL A LIE!" responses are amusing.


Dude, it's not so much "we don't like the source", its more "this source has a well documented history of lying, dishonest editing, and malfeasance. So much so that I find him non-credible."
 
2012-05-16 12:04:32 PM  

skullkrusher: If you can get a voter ID card for free by providing proof of residency it is no more onerous than registering to vote in the first place


You need prerequisite docs like birth certificates and marriage and or divorce documents for an ID but to register you need to fill out an affidavit. If it was just as easy republicans would not be taking it up as an issue because they wouldn't be disenfranchising anyone.
 
2012-05-16 12:06:37 PM  

Knight without armor: Call me when James O'Keefe makes a film about Citizens United/Campaign Finance, etc. = real subversion of Americans' vote & representative democracy. This is just a diversion funded by the same money really subverting the vote.


While he's at it he can do a prequel about how big unions take their dues money and shovel it straight into the pockets of Democratic politicians, against the wishes of a large portion of those who have to pay those dues as a mandatory condition of employment. If that's not subverting democracy I don't know what is. At least the dirty money given to the right wing groups was given over voluntarily.

But it's ok when your side does it............right?
 
2012-05-16 12:12:33 PM  

karnal: unexplained bacon


Anderson's Pooper: As someone who has studied politics and worked with several campaigns, I have no problem with Voter ID laws. I understand the Democrats view on the issues, however, there have been primaries going on for months and the election isn't until November. If you can't get your head out of your ass between now and then to get a frikkin' ID card I will have no sympathy for you when you have problems on election day. Politics is not just a one day thing. If your vote is important to you, then pay attention and make sure you are appropriately registered. Don't blame one side or the other for you half-assed involvement.

As someone who has a lot of experience with politics and campaigns are you aware of any examples of the kind of fraud these ID laws are designed to prevent? There must be plenty for our GOP lawmakers to be so concerned but I'm not seeing it.

If it is a real problem (citation needed) then as others have said the necessary IDs must be provided free. Wouldn't you agree? Otherwise that is a poll tax. Believe it or not to some folks 25 bucks is a lot of money.


The Obamacare bill explicitly states that in order for any individual to be eligible for a health insurance plan and health claim status, they will be issued a national health identification card....how is this different from voter id cards?


Look at you with your big boy post. Haha, ok then

Well first nothing there will prevent someone from voting. That's a huge difference right there. Enough of a difference to make your comparison pretty weak.
Also can you tell me how much money this required Obamacare card will cost the person directly receiving the card?
 
2012-05-16 12:13:04 PM  

Poopspasm: karnal: What is it with Democrats and voter fraud.....it's like cheating is instinctive to them.

Provide one recent example of voting fraud.


You DID read the article..............right? I would think the fact that potentially 180,000 people who are registered to vote that shouldn't be because they are NON-CITIZENS, kinda runs against the concept of free and fair elections. But then it's gonna be a close election and you're gonna need all the help you can get, no matter how you get it.

Nah, we don't need voter ID laws in this country.
 
2012-05-16 12:13:47 PM  

qorkfiend: spongeboob: Thank you brave souls who clicked on a hot air link and then quoted the first six words. I learned a new word today triptych, the downside I don't know when I'll be able to use it in a sentence.

Don't worry, the article didn't use it properly either.

"A triptych is a work of art (usually a panel painting) which is divided into three sections, or three carved panels which are hinged together and can be folded shut or displayed open."


I really did need to look it up to see what it meant. I still don't what word they wanted to use though.
 
2012-05-16 12:15:54 PM  

spongeboob: qorkfiend: spongeboob: Thank you brave souls who clicked on a hot air link and then quoted the first six words. I learned a new word today triptych, the downside I don't know when I'll be able to use it in a sentence.

Don't worry, the article didn't use it properly either.

"A triptych is a work of art (usually a panel painting) which is divided into three sections, or three carved panels which are hinged together and can be folded shut or displayed open."

I really did need to look it up to see what it meant. I still don't what word they wanted to use though.


I don't know, either. I think they went with "random smart-sounding art word".
 
2012-05-16 12:41:44 PM  

skullkrusher: JusticeandIndependence: Babwa Wawa: make IDs free

How do you make them free? Taxpayers would have to fund it somehow.

I think the point is that voters would not have to pay for their own.


It's called a "poll tax" and has already been declared unconstitutional, specifically it discriminates against those with no money. See, in America, you don't need to be a damned landed lord in order to vote.
 
2012-05-16 12:47:51 PM  

friday13: It's called a "poll tax" and has already been declared unconstitutional, specifically it discriminates against those with no money. See, in America, you don't need to be a damned landed lord in order to vote.


It's not just been declared unconstitutional - there's an entire f*cking amendment about exactly this issue. Documentation that can only be acquired by paying a fee cannot be a prerequisite for voting. It's simple and clear - no interpretation needed.
 
2012-05-16 12:48:15 PM  

skullkrusher: Headso: the argument against voter id laws is that they are not necessary

right.

Headso: the argument against the idea of "free" voter ids is that they are effectively not free and will lead to the fees and availability of the prerequisite forms being a partisan issue.

nor is voting if you have to pay for gas to get you to the polling station. If you can get a voter ID card for free by providing proof of residency it is no more onerous than registering to vote in the first place


I walk to mine. No need to pay for gas. And where I'm from, government ID requires you to pay a fee, or have a driver's license, which requires a fee to take the test, which results in a fee for the ID that is the license.
 
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