>I am a fed and I work like a dog

Oh. Well then.
Big huge raises for all Federal employees! Yay!

/ I hope you don't taste like a dog, Barry is watching

Well...that only took about 5 seconds to look myself up....kinda scary.

hockeychick: No more money in the budget for county employees, yet the federal employees in her office got 5% raises this year.

That seems odd, seeing as how we Feds are in our third straight year of a Pay Freeze.

I haven't even had a COLA in that time

Son of a gun- I'm in there. Neat!

/Imokaywiththis.jpg

Wouldn't it be more intellectually honest to argue about why your butthurt side lost the Civil War, and you only complain about a centrist government when it's not one you dissaprove of (read: republican) when it uses the Federal power in ways you agree with? As opposed to the many examples (Terry Shciavo, for one) of Federal intervention in state's rights?

I'm willing to bet this whiner, subby, lives in a trailer house and couldn't get a real job if his momma hired him to clean up the Pit Bull crap in the back yard...talk about envy.

You can't get a job with the Feds, much less any other government institution, without a college degree and impeccable credentials, including a clean criminal history and credit rating because they actually have rules about who is hired and the human resources officer who approves the axe murder will be held accountable.

But lets not confuse reality with the way "free enterprise" works, and some dick jerk can lie and become the CEO of Yahoo! and still profit from it after getting caught.

Deucednuisance: hockeychick: No more money in the budget for county employees, yet the federal employees in her office got 5% raises this year.

That seems odd, seeing as how we Feds are in our third straight year of a Pay Freeze.

I haven't even had a COLA in that time

People like to make stuff up. Like the secretary making more than the engineer. Someone is leaving out a lot of facts.

WarszawaScream: We've had this in NY for some years now. Anyone who knows my real name can find out exactly where I work and what my salary is. *hands up* Oh no, watch out, someone might find out how broke state employees are.

Same here, but in Arkansas.

Jimmysolson: I'm now retired, but one thing I learned when I was working as a clerk for the USPS, was that hard work only earned you more hard work. Never found out what ass kissing got you.


This is true of bureaucracies in general... large corps are much the same for workers not on an upper-management track. There is little incentive to be enterprising, innovative or efficient.

walk in at 9, walk out at 5... day after day.

/self-employed
//offices give me the itches

Cool.

I now know just exactly which 6 figures my best friend makes. He's doing well.

I didn't bother looking, but federal pay, especially Title 5 (the GS scale) is really messed up.

A line cook (not chef, nutritionist, but just cook) can make more than 10k per starting than I do after 4 years.

It is a real clusterfark of contradictory, vague and needlessly specific rules.

/ federal HR Asst
// wants to gtfo

knightofargh: Magorn: must be why I used to be a GS-13

Based on what the 12s and 13s around here get paid relative to the amount and quality of work they do, I'd love to be one. It would be worth some of my tattered pride remnants.

It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't completely lack accountability for their actions.

Accountability is why contractors do all the work, take all the blame, and get fired every 3 years because the leadership still didn't understand what we do on a daily basis after all that time.

No I'm not bitter..

Yeah, I'm also a contractor at a federal facility.

I found both of the GS-11s from the department I work in.
One guy has been at the facility for five years (first in an internship, then holding the job he had interned for). After all of that time, he had absolutely no clue what he was doing. True story: If someone important emailed him a question, he'd forward the email to one his subordinates asking, basically "What's your take on this?" When the subordinate replied with the answer, the guy would send that email as a reply back to the person that had asked the question, with all the "FW:" edited out, along with any other signs that someone else had actually provided the answer.

The second guy knows his job to some degree, but he just refuses to do it. The department has wasted boatloads of money simply because of this guys refusal to manage his own employees.

...which is why I'm there, of course. Someone has to fix all the screwups that these people create. Yeah, they all got bonuses last year.

Federal employee here, just to clarify a few things.

I'm sure there are agencies where there is bloat, and that there are people who don't do much. Then again, most of the people in my agency that make "the big bucks" that seem ridiculous to so many not only have advanced degrees and 20 years of experience, they'd be making more money in an equivalent position in the civilian world. (IE, if they had the same amount of responsibility/work, they'd be getting paid more.) That often applies to GS-05s as much as GS-15s. I have 8 years of experience, a PhD, and my pay grade is GS-11 step 2. I don't receive bonuses, though I still get overtime pay when I work overtime, which you tend to lose at GS-12. Our travel and transportation secretary for the entire region has a bachelors degree, has been working for 20+ years and is a GS-08. She does a crap ton of work, and has to navigate the bureaucratic paperwork process for everything. The problem is that a lot of executive management positions are called "secretary" even though they aren't a secretary in the sense you think. It usually isn't someone handling paperwork and answering phones getting the 150k salary, it's typically the person responsible for multiple offices of employees.

Health insurance, life insurance, retirement, etc is all deducted from my listed pay. Getting paid sick leave and vacation time each year may seem marvelous, but that's really a problem with America, not federal employees. Other first world nations give their employees more vacation, more sick time, and more pay for fewer hours per week. Federal employees receiving sub par benefits that happen to be better than the crappy American average doesn't mean fed benefits need to be reduced, it means that Americans as a whole need to get their acts together to set their benefits closer to that enjoyed by most other 1st world nations.

As for unions, they aren't "paid for" by the taxpayer. They are paid for by union members contributing a portion of their pay. They rarely keep people from being fired for wrong doing, and they don't have much of anything to do with hiring, promotions, etc. What they do do is make sure the gov't follows it's own rules regarding labor practices, and helps set job descriptions for employees. How much work one person can be expected to do, and what sort of work their position entails. If you were hired as a engineer at Boeing, you wouldn't expect your job to include lawn maintenance around the building, would you? In my agency there is a strong desire to save money so that we can fit everything we're supposed to do into our budget. The union forms a counter to this force, keeping us within federal regulation and law. I can't speak for every agency, of course, but from what I've seen in mine the union does improve things in a positive way for everyone, not to mention saves the government a lot of money in lawsuits.

Finally, for the longest time government salary has been lower than the private sector, even after accounting for benefits. And in many cases this is still true, mostly when it comes to any sort of technical position. It's silly to rage against federal employees because their salaries don't change during a recession, and a lower number of them get laid off. (contrary to popular belief, federal employees do get fired, and do get laid off.) I am a science major, with an advanced degree, but I don't make what I would working in the private sector... In fact I make less than many people with bachelor's degrees and similar experience. I'm not complaining, but I am pointing out that some of this hate is misplaced.

/end rant

mescalito:
THIS, Ex DoD employee here. Got sick of listening to lazy as fark government unworkers biatching about how horrible their jobs are. You know, those jobs they have where they do 50% of the workload and get payed 2-3 times as much as the civy sector folk.

Not even going for the subtle troll?

the real waste of government employees hapens at the state and local levels, thanks to those unions. Federal workers unions cant even talk about wage levels or benefits.

My ex isn't in there. She did really well in a defense-related field and got beyond the GS scale. I really wanted to see how much she makes. The financial expectations our daughter has have been hard to compete with for a few years now.

Smackledorfer:

Never claimed to be an engineer.

You trying to equate the amount of work involved with Basket Weaving degree and, say, a Nuclear Engineering degree proves my point, thanks.

Here let's try this example: Say a position was open at company X, that did not require Basket Weaving skills or an engineering degree, and say the candidates were equally impressive in their interviews - who would you rather pick? The Basket Weaver who took the 'easy' way through college or the engineer who showed they either had the smarts or the discipline to earn the more difficult degree?

Still having trouble? How about this? Say company X needed to hire a cook, which one would you say offers more value to your company? The 22 year old that has spent the past four years working at Burger King or the 22 year old Military veteran?

I hope this clears up a few of your misconceptions.

Merkin Ball: Smackledorfer:

Oh, and the Military Veteran's MOS was a cook.

Phew, that could have really confused you...

DownIncognito: he'd forward the email to one his subordinates

A GS-11 has subordinates?

stappawho: DownIncognito: he'd forward the email to one his subordinates

A GS-11 has subordinates?

Hell, our office is so bass-ackwards, I'm a 12, and I have 9's telling me what to do.

Merkin Ball:
You trying to equate the amount of work involved with Basket Weaving degree and, say, a Nuclear Engineering degree proves my point, thanks.

It only proves your point if you either A. didn't read my post and/or ignored the specifics I put into your example or B. feel that one Merkin Ball should be the decider of value of all people's pay.

Why shouldn't Gub'Ment Jorbs pay great? I want those positions to be so valuable, so desirable, that there is competition for them. That's how the private sector gets talent.

If we, as a country, insist that we pay government employees the least amount of money for their job description- we really won't have room to complain if they are shiatty at their job.

I don't want the cheapest, most desperate engineer to be the one who designs my water treatment system, tends to the healthcare of veterans, designs bridges or does *anything* important.

If there were less job security for people who are terrible at their (Government) job- I think that would go a long way toward improving the image of the Fed.

Smackledorfer: Merkin Ball:
You trying to equate the amount of work involved with Basket Weaving degree and, say, a Nuclear Engineering degree proves my point, thanks.

It only proves your point if you either A. didn't read my post and/or ignored the specifics I put into your example or B. feel that one Merkin Ball should be the decider of value of all people's pay.

I would definitely say B.

Seriously though, your point about two working veterans who are established in their jobs is valid. I agree with that. However, you missed just about every other point I was making and then you elaborated and created your own versions.


Why would I pay a generic, easily replaceable employee, more or the same as an employ who is highly skilled? (to ward off confusion: Easily replaceable=two months to train; highly skilled=4years of specialized schooling + at least two years of on the job training)


(I realize a bunch of people here got caught up in the semantics of 'secretary', sad... If a person really has to continually define each and every word they use they are either forced to take the position of teacher - in this case define multiple definitions of 'secretary' so those children do not get confused, or are forced to take the position of defender and assert their position. Either way, it dumbs both parties and hinders discourse. Then again, this is Fark and I just realized that I am attempting to have a serious discussion here. fark. Why do I do this?

Oh well,...

I guess bottom line, if you want to succeed in the federal government 1) don't be an engineer 2) suck lots of cock 3) join a union.

Merkin Ball: I agree with that. However, you missed just about every other point I was making and then you elaborated and created your own versions.

The only thing I missed is that you are anecdotes to prove your point while telling everyone else any of their anecdotes don't count, and then when forced into a corner where you can't use anecdotes, you had to make up a fake profession to compare to a profession you feel deserves respect (and I have nothing against a nuclear engineer). You are waffling back and forth between anecdote and hyperbolic, hypothetical example. Why is there a presumption that everyone with a GS level has learned nothing and is replaceable at the drop of a hate by anyone else? I've never worked a position in my life in which 2 months of training brings someone up to identical level, even back in the day as a waiter.

All this hate stemming from an article of anti-union hate because .01% of the employees got a bonus, without knowing the specifics of what they did to earn it.

Unions don't scare me, and even if they do succeed in getting public sector jobs excessive pay, its still pretty far down on my list of things to worry about: its more often than not going into the pockets of those who will spend it in this country, and it is distributed among thousands of workers. The total dollar amount of waste is debatable and no doubt difficult to pin down. I'll admit its no doubt significant, but really as it compares to unregulated banking industries, or real fraud within the system, its both a minor flaw within the government and poses no ethical issues. Oh noes, somebody negotiated their pay. Big deal.

Smackledorfer:

Oh, that was your problem. See, I guess you proved my earlier point that when someone even mentions the slightest discontent with Unions the derp of pro-union people goes to eleven.

You are not trotsky's alt, are you? Hmmm. Never mind, I think I know the answer. Hi trotsky, it's been a while since I was trolled by you. Good work.

Merkin Ball: See, I guess you proved my earlier point that when someone even mentions the slightest discontent with Unions the derp of pro-union people goes to eleven.

You know, you might try actually replying to points people make instead of just saying "derp you proved my point, everything you said makes me right, and here's an assumption about you personally to back that up!"

Shut. Down. Everything.

I'm a soon-to-be-former GS-11 (biologist, for the record). I'm in here, as is my OBSCENE bonus total from last year. $350.

I agree that this is public information and have no objection to anyone who can spell my last name knowing what I make. What I do have a problem with is that I work in an office full of people who, despite having been on the job longer than I've been on the planet, don't know what the fsck they're doing. No one will do anything about these employees even when they do things that are blatantly illegal (using a publicly-owned vehicle to move a TV on a weekend, for example). Those types of employees even get the same step increases for longevity that I get. When Lazy McWanker gets paid the same as me, it's hard to be motivated. It's even harder to be motivated when the 65-year-old beeyotch of an "administrative assistant" thinks she's my boss and screams at me for not doing things her way. I have a cool immediate supervisor, so I get $200-300 awards once or twice a year for good performance. Otherwise, though, shiat floats to the top.

Bwah ha aha ha.

Federal Union worker here.

You all are just jealous that you can't make what me make and do what we do. I do my forty/week in about 20. Or maybe that's 20hrs in 40? Either way, we work hard to get our contracts.

This list is also forgetting to me mention my per diem and travel pay. And my holiday bonus. And the fact that I make double in overtime. Life is good. Oh, did I mention I am at work right now, sitting in my truck farking on my phone and getting paid $92/hr (OT baby!). Added all up, I grossed almost $154k last year! Have a problem with this? Too bad. Have you ever heard of Federal Union member being fired?