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(MSNBC)   MSNBC therapy column tries to explain why women don't like nice guys. Meanwhile, Twilight BDSM fan fiction continues to be a bestseller thanks to women living out their fantasy of....bad writing   (today.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 287
    More: Asinine, MSNBC, relationship counseling, fantasy, Sleeping Beauty  
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7015 clicks; posted to Main » on 15 May 2012 at 12:26 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-15 04:17:24 PM  

Detinwolf: akula: screwzloos: From my interactions with others I'd guess that I'm somehow frightening, but it's not clear why. I think that might be getting in the way. So far, being in good shape, maintaining good hygiene, being formally educated, and having a good job have not helped.

Any suggestions?


Live your life. Do whatever you have been waiting to do. If it's travel, book it and GO... take cruises, swim with dolphins, fly to Europe, whatever. If it's anything else, do that. You won't meet people sitting on your ass and just waiting isn't interesting. You won't be the most interesting man in the world, but you'll at least be having some fun and creating fun stories as you meet people, and who knows- maybe somebody will decide she wants to create some fun stories with you.

If you can't express you are having fun, I wonder how much fun you've really been having... the best kinds of fun take days to wipe the stupid grin off your face. Get your hide out there and be filled with joy and wonder at things. Chances are good you'll meet somebody doing the same thing.

I'm pretty sure you just inspired me to book a flight to Europe. By myself. Is that weird?


Yeah. Stop defining your happiness and determining your life's course of action by whether or not you'll find someone. Just live on your own terms. If you happen to meet someone along the way... perfect. If not, you'll have too much fun to know you're alone and you'll die happy.
 
2012-05-15 04:19:40 PM  

Virtue: verucabong: I dunno. What was the statement again? I came late to this (and in fact resurrected my Fark account from like 2006)

If you spoil a child (defined as giving them pretty much what ever they ask for) Do you agree that if you take this action with 100 children about 95 of them would turn out to be farktastic dikwads?

That statement.


Sure, though I'm not sure the relevance.
 
2012-05-15 04:20:48 PM  

Virtue: bobbette: And fetishization of youth works on the feminine side too. You think women don't like hot young guys? Ha.

The problem there is the Hot young guys dont go for the older women.....Excluding the its 2AM and the Cougar at the end of the bar is finally looking good and I have no better prospects.


That's the catch. On that end of the dating game, the 40something women may like the 20something guys too, but those 20something guys are going for the young women. So you have the young and old men going for the young women, who in turn are just deciding what they want. The 40something women may have a preferred group, but in the end they just aren't in great demand. The young guys who strike out will take them, but they aren't their first choice. The older guys who don't want to put up with the vapid younger women might also go for them, but when faced with a silly younger woman and an older woman with hang ups about her ex, kids, etc., they end up preferring the young hottie if it's just sex.
 
2012-05-15 04:23:52 PM  

perigee: ...I just completely can't take the romantic wisdom of someone who quotes Princess Lea to nail a point down. It's like... taking financial advice from some guy in a clown suit...


Oh, come on. Let's be reasonable here. I get some very good financial advice from clownpenis.fart
 
2012-05-15 04:27:09 PM  

bobbette: You're deluded.


You're projecting. I'm not a "loser with a sense of entitlement," as you say. I'm just a man who has done well enough with the hand he's been dealt, but like a gay, black kid in George Wallace Junior High, his best days might still be ahead of him.

bobbette: I'm perfectly aware that there are some advantages for younger women in attracting men.


Understatement of the year.

bobbette: ...does not mean that you will become more attractive as you age, merely because you age.


No, but my expanding wallet, skills behind the bar and in the bedroom, knowledge of wine and luxurious cheeses and the confidence to take a firm hand with the silly young things certainly will. (for best result, try reading that last sentence in Sean Connery's voice)
 
2012-05-15 04:34:26 PM  
Aloof and drunk has been working for me.
 
2012-05-15 04:34:39 PM  

Needlessly Complicated:
Finally, I really like what akula says.



Nicely done, akula...! ;) *high five*

/someone's getting laaaaiiid
 
2012-05-15 04:37:03 PM  

Virtue: bobbette: And fetishization of youth works on the feminine side too. You think women don't like hot young guys? Ha.

The problem there is the Hot young guys dont go for the older women.....Excluding the its 2AM and the Cougar at the end of the bar is finally looking good and I have no better prospects.


I'm not talking about older women, I'm talking about younger women.
 
2012-05-15 04:38:03 PM  

verucabong: Sure, though I'm not sure the relevance.


Ok its directly relevant to this

akula: That's the catch. On that end of the dating game, the 40something women may like the 20something guys too, but those 20something guys are going for the young women. So you have the young and old men going for the young women, who in turn are just deciding what they want. The 40something women may have a preferred group, but in the end they just aren't in great demand. The young guys who strike out will take them, but they aren't their first choice. The older guys who don't want to put up with the vapid younger women might also go for them, but when faced with a silly younger woman and an older woman with hang ups about her ex, kids, etc., they end up preferring the young hottie if it's just sex.


I will add to this and say that in western culture (US, UK, NZ, AUS, Western europe etc) that we as a culture go out of our way to put women on a pedestal and not hold them accountable for their actions.

Opening doors for women

Men are incarserated at 100X the rate of women in the US

Paying for dates

Letting women take the first cab in bad weather

Women and Children first.

Am I getting my point across?
 
2012-05-15 04:38:20 PM  

Needlessly Complicated: I am not a vagina with legs.


So, an amputee, then?
 
2012-05-15 04:43:12 PM  

Magnanimous_J: No, but my expanding wallet, skills behind the bar and in the bedroom, knowledge of wine and luxurious cheeses and the confidence to take a firm hand with the silly young things certainly will. (


Uh huh. The sad thing is you're willing to concede that you're not able to be what you think of as sophisticated (really, cheese? that's what you have going for you?... okay), good in bed, or confident with women now. There's plenty of guys who have those things going for them in their 20s.
 
2012-05-15 04:46:56 PM  

Virtue: Am I getting my point across?


Yeah, we can all see that your views on gender relations have been influenced more by pickup artist and men's rights advocacy corners of the internet rather than personal experience.
 
2012-05-15 04:49:58 PM  

bobbette: Yeah, we can all see that your views on gender relations have been influenced more by pickup artist and men's rights advocacy corners of the internet rather than personal experience.


That makes you sound like a feminists.....You know the folks who say stuff like this ALL the time:

"The male is completely egocentric, trapped inside himself, incapable of empathizing or identifying with others, or love, friendship, affection of tenderness. He is a completely isolated unit, incapable of rapport with anyone. His responses are entirely visceral, not cerebral; his intelligence is a mere tool in the services of his drives and needs; he is incapable of mental passion, mental interaction; he can't relate to anything other than his own physical sensations. He is a half-dead, unresponsive lump, incapable of giving or receiving pleasure or happiness; consequently, he is at best an utter bore, an inoffensive blob, since only those capable of absorption in others can be charming. He is trapped in a twilight zone halfway between humans and apes, and is far worse off than the apes because, unlike the apes, he is capable of a large array of negative feelings -- hate, jealousy, contempt, disgust, guilt, shame, doubt -- and moreover, he is aware of what he is and what he isn't."

S.C.U.M. Manifesto
http://www.womynkind.org/scum.htm
 
2012-05-15 04:50:31 PM  
You make it out like opening a door for a woman means I have a 100x greater chance of being thrown in the clink.

I respect women, not let them walk all over me. You seem to think it's black and white or something.

Perhaps this is why I stopped going to Fark all those years ago.... Ug.
 
2012-05-15 04:52:35 PM  

verucabong: You make it out like opening a door for a woman means I have a 100x greater chance of being thrown in the clink.

I respect women, not let them walk all over me. You seem to think it's black and white or something.

Perhaps this is why I stopped going to Fark all those years ago.... Ug.




What your experiencing is looking at an ugly truth and disliking it so much you don't want to admit its true.
 
2012-05-15 04:55:25 PM  

Virtue: perigee: for me...

Well considering how Lucas intentionally based SW off the classic Hero myth as pulled directly from Joseph Cambell's research. I think it would be impossible for there NOT to be religious parallels.


I remember all that... stuff.

Considering his output since, I'm not all that sure I buy into all of that Classic Hero Myth mumbo-jumbo Lucas was spitting out back then. Lucas. Campbell. Really? Where does Jar Jar fit in?

Oh - right - now Star Wars was and always has been kids films...

Which, honestly, is all I think they ever really were.

Star Wars was a fantastic 'pew-pew' film, and, in my opinion, it probably got put on too high a horse back in the day because of all the worship. I still have this one from '77 in my closet somewhere...

www.frankallnutt.com
 
2012-05-15 04:56:19 PM  

bobbette: really, cheese? that's what you have going for you?... okay


Women are impressed by a man with an appreciation for cheese. Take Asiago for example. I developed a love for this playful provision during my stay in Florence, Italy. It's really nothing more than a common table cheese, but I find it a charming yang to Merlot impish yin.

Then I tell them I like it with the heels on.
 
2012-05-15 04:58:41 PM  
perigee

Yeah....it was a huge hit because it gave a modern hero story to a nation with not much of a history....and it was primarily aimed at 13 yr old boys which nearly guaranteed its success.
 
2012-05-15 05:01:25 PM  

Magnanimous_J: but I find it a charming yang to Merlot impish yin


I find Merlot to be a but prosaic.
 
2012-05-15 05:02:54 PM  

Virtue: What your experiencing is looking at an ugly truth and disliking it so much you don't want to admit its true.


Ugly truth? The world is the way we see it, I suppose.

What's the usual Fark comeback? "You sound bitter because something in the world wasn't the way you once wanted it to be. But you still want those same things even now so you've twisted it back around again and crossed that line between love and hate to where what once was beautiful is now ugly and you ignore any nuance and complexity in the world and willfully deny anything that may be contradictory to your current perspective which you've fanatically adopted since you've had this 'epiphany about the way things really are' and have undergone what has practically been a religious conversion."

Or was it "You sound fat."?
 
2012-05-15 05:03:41 PM  
verucabong: "Perhaps this is why I stopped going to Fark all those years ago.... Ug."

Well, at least it beats what dailykos.com has become. ...

Magnanimus_J: "It's really nothing more than a common table cheese, but I find it a charming yang to Merlot impish yin."

Not sure if serious.
 
2012-05-15 05:03:43 PM  

verucabong: I'm a nice guy. But I didn't get my girlfriend because I'm a nice guy. I got it because I'm a man. I'm assertive. I'm confident. I get shiat done when it needs to be done. And I have a life outside of my girlfriend.

Simple as that.


THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

Women (like, actual adult women, not aimless 20-somethings who are trying to stretch adolescence out as long as possible) are looking for men. Not bad boys, not nice guys, MEN.

Bad boys and nice guys are all about trying to get girls. The bad boys do it with macho posturing, and the nice guys do it with puppy dog eyes, but both of them are basically just trying to be what they think women want.

What women actually want is men. Men who know who they are, what they want, and where they're going. They're out there having lives and doing stuff[1], and while they may or may not be looking for a relationship, finding one is not their primary focus. This means that when they do meet a woman they like, they have something to talk about other than her problems and their exes, possibly even something interesting enough to grab her attention. They don't automatically agree with everything she says, which also provides material for further conversation. They have opinions of their own, stories to tell, and knowledge to impart. This is what women want from a man: not a mirror, but an entirely new view.

This applies to women as well. Basically, no matter who you are, if your primary focus is finding a relationship, you're going to be miserable. Find other stuff to do. Keep looking or don't, but don't let it be the most important thing in your life. That way lies madness.
 
2012-05-15 05:03:53 PM  

medius: Or was it "You sound fat."?


Don't forget that I live in my mom's basement, have no job, and I am a closet homosexual.

/did I miss any?
 
2012-05-15 05:05:12 PM  
Virtue


Smartest
Funniest

2012-05-15 05:03:53 PM

medius: Or was it "You sound fat."?

Don't forget that I live in my mom's basement, have no job, and I am a closet homosexual.

/did I miss any?




Video game references ! I forgot derogatory statements about playing video games!
 
2012-05-15 05:05:47 PM  

Virtue: perigee

Yeah....it was a huge hit because it gave a modern hero story to a nation with not much of a history....and it was primarily aimed at 13 yr old boys which nearly guaranteed its success.


The question is - (and here I am discussing "Star Wars" in a gender thread - guess where I fall on the scale..?) whether you believe Lucas actually went off and researched The Classic Hero Mythos, of just came up with a princess, a space pirate, a farmboy and a big nasty guy, and then claimed to have did the research after the media went ape and started spinning all sorts of Star Wars stories - much like the every-imaginable aspect of "Avengers" journalism Fark has been showing us for the past couple weeks.

Personally, I say he didn't - it's on par with his "Have the whole nine movies already sketched out" he promised back in 1978. But... ~shrug~. Back to my basement!
 
2012-05-15 05:06:19 PM  

Virtue: medius: Or was it "You sound fat."?

Don't forget that I live in my mom's basement, have no job, and I am a closet homosexual.

/did I miss any?


hmm...

last post?

no, too soon

don't worry, i'll switch sides in this argument soon enough; i happen to think the discussion is broad enough to give everyone room to be wrong
 
2012-05-15 05:07:06 PM  

gglibertine: Basically, no matter who you are, if your primary focus is finding a relationship, you're going to be miserable. Find other stuff to do. Keep looking or don't, but don't let it be the most important thing in your life. That way lies madness.


How many copies of Cosmo sell every day?
 
2012-05-15 05:08:23 PM  

perigee: Personally, I say he didn't - it's on par with his "Have the whole nine movies already sketched out" he promised back in 1978. But... ~shrug~. Back to my basement!


Sorry I was not addressing that argument....I was just saying that end result was spectacular
 
2012-05-15 05:08:50 PM  
I'll throw my two cents in after reading (at the time of this writing) all 205 comments. What I'll provide is not law but has worked in my experience.

Guys, if you're interested in a girl and then you find out that you've been friend-zoned don't get upset, don't brood, don't sit idly by. If she doesn't know of your intentions, make them known. Do not be the "friend" that'll do everything for them. Have your own life without them. If you cannot be comfortable alone or doing your own things, don't think that you'll be fine with someone else. Life is too short to wait and see. Take care of yourself also. You don't have to be extremely ripped or look like the latest celebrity heart-throb. Just don't be a slob. Again, be yourself and confident in yourself. Be happy with yourself and who you are. This in turn will lead to self-confidence. Never ever be ashamed of what interests you may have, or talk down about other peoples' interests. If you don't like it and if the person asks "why not?", provide your reasons and make sure they sound like valid reasons. None of this "its just stupid and for immature people". Provide something more along the lines of "I just don't like the pacing" or something a little more educated and let it go. Sort of a "live and let live" mentality. Walk tall and smile. Don't slouch. If you are shy, practice being a little more social. Work your way into talking to random people by first saying hello and good morning with a smile. Make eye contact and don't look down at the ground. Make sure your voice can be heard but don't yell. It takes practice but it'll help.


Again I can't stress this enough, be able to live with yourself. If you can't then you'll just be seen as clingy or constantly friend-zoned. A person does not owe you anything nor do you owe them anything unless its been agreed upon or it's help moving to a new place. According to intergalactic laws of being friends: Any person who has helped with a move, whether it be asked, expected, or otherwise, is entitled to a pizza and beer immediately after move and moving help for a future date.

/What I've provided isn't law
//except for the moving help
 
2012-05-15 05:11:18 PM  

Virtue: perigee: Personally, I say he didn't - it's on par with his "Have the whole nine movies already sketched out" he promised back in 1978. But... ~shrug~. Back to my basement!

Sorry I was not addressing that argument....I was just saying that end result was spectacular


We have reached Accord!
 
2012-05-15 05:12:00 PM  

perigee: We have reached Accord!


But I have never been to Vo Mimbre

/obscure
 
2012-05-15 05:19:17 PM  

akula: Here's a few facts:

The self described "nice guys" have bought a bill of goods being sold by crappy romantic comedies and pop songs. They are told that if they're the friend and they are there, the woman will one day realize he's all she ever wanted. This is bullshiat.

The truth of the matter is that this means the man has nothing really in his life, either for him to focus on or for her to join in... nothing but his feeling of unrequited love. Nobody wants to join in with that crap.

To get out of this, the man must find some other driving force in his life- get out and DO those things he thinks he one day might like to do. Quit waiting, start making it happen, whether you're accompanied or not. Travel, work on a sports car, just do what you really want to do. Even if it's better with somebody else, you're at least having fun in the meantime.


Please note that the above advice only works for socially defined values of "doing what you really want to do."

If what you really want to do is travel and work on sports cars, that's good. If what you really want to do is kick back, watch the world go by, drink some good booze, and find your happy place, forget it.

Men without a driving force might be great companions and fascinating individuals, but they are almost never exciting as men.
 
2012-05-15 05:19:58 PM  
ooh I have an idea.....lets ask Drew to post a breakdown by sex of people who have had totalfark sponsorships.

You know X number of males have had a TF sponsorship and X number of females have had a TF sponsorship!
 
2012-05-15 05:21:39 PM  
I've never paid for TF in my life.

Guess I'm a he-whore.
 
2012-05-15 05:22:49 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: If what you really want to do is travel and work on sports cars, that's good. If what you really want to do is kick back, watch the world go by, drink some good booze, and find your happy place, forget it.

Men without a driving force might be great companions and fascinating individuals, but they are almost never exciting as men.




Funny I see that as.....Men, no matter what if you don't have a job your not exciting.

"You are NOT your job. You are NOT the content of your wallet. You are NOT your bank account balance."
Tyler Durden
 
2012-05-15 05:27:05 PM  

medius: I've never paid for TF in my life.

Guess I'm a he-whore.




I think it would be awesome to see the actual numbers......even cooler to see them posted to fark.
 
2012-05-15 05:27:38 PM  

Virtue: i upped my meds-up yours: If what you really want to do is travel and work on sports cars, that's good. If what you really want to do is kick back, watch the world go by, drink some good booze, and find your happy place, forget it.

Men without a driving force might be great companions and fascinating individuals, but they are almost never exciting as men.



Funny I see that as.....Men, no matter what if you don't have a job your not exciting.

"You are NOT your job. You are NOT the content of your wallet. You are NOT your bank account balance."
Tyler Durden


It's true Tyler, your are not those things. Doesn't mean you're going to get anywhere if you don't have them.
 
2012-05-15 05:30:21 PM  
Because Tyler Durden was just drowning in pussy, and not a fictional psychopath.
 
2012-05-15 05:32:24 PM  

Lexx: Because Tyler Durden was just drowning in pussy, and not a fictional psychopath.


Completely irrelevant to the cool quote factor.

Atomic_Cockroach: It's true Tyler, your are not those things. Doesn't mean you're going to get anywhere if you don't have them.


Think about how sad it is that what you say is true.
 
2012-05-15 05:33:48 PM  

Virtue: medius: I've never paid for TF in my life.

Guess I'm a he-whore.



I think it would be awesome to see the actual numbers......even cooler to see them posted to fark.


This is the breakdown I imagine:

145,209,876,557,332 Farkettes sponsored
1 medius
 
2012-05-15 05:34:34 PM  
medius

I imagine your ratio is pretty close to the truth.
 
2012-05-15 05:37:11 PM  

gglibertine: verucabong: I'm a nice guy. But I didn't get my girlfriend because I'm a nice guy. I got it because I'm a man. I'm assertive. I'm confident. I get shiat done when it needs to be done. And I have a life outside of my girlfriend.

Simple as that.

THIS. SO MUCH THIS.

Women (like, actual adult women, not aimless 20-somethings who are trying to stretch adolescence out as long as possible) are looking for men. Not bad boys, not nice guys, MEN.

Bad boys and nice guys are all about trying to get girls. The bad boys do it with macho posturing, and the nice guys do it with puppy dog eyes, but both of them are basically just trying to be what they think women want.

What women actually want is men. Men who know who they are, what they want, and where they're going. They're out there having lives and doing stuff[1], and while they may or may not be looking for a relationship, finding one is not their primary focus. This means that when they do meet a woman they like, they have something to talk about other than her problems and their exes, possibly even something interesting enough to grab her attention. They don't automatically agree with everything she says, which also provides material for further conversation. They have opinions of their own, stories to tell, and knowledge to impart. This is what women want from a man: not a mirror, but an entirely new view.

This applies to women as well. Basically, no matter who you are, if your primary focus is finding a relationship, you're going to be miserable. Find other stuff to do. Keep looking or don't, but don't let it be the most important thing in your life. That way lies madness.


This. Nail-on-head this. In typical man fashion I said it short and sweet. In typical woman fashion, you went on and on saying the same thing. Ha
 
2012-05-15 05:37:54 PM  
Most biatches in their teens and twenties go after jerks. The rest of them look for the picket fence & dog named Rover, 2.5 kids and a lifetime commitment from the first guy they date. Nice guys can't get the former and should avoid the latter.

Eventually, the jerk-lovers will try a nice guy. When this happens, the nice guy should realize he is just a place holder between jerks, but enjoy the sex at this point. He should gorge himself on the sex. As many times per day as possible. Because it will end as soon as a better looking guy who will, by the way, be a jerk, comes along.

Once a nice guy gets into his mid-thirties, biatches his age have gotten a divorce and are ready for a nice guy. This is when nice guys come into their own and can take their pick. If they have a mind to, they can treat the biatches like he was treated in his younger days. Think of it as providing Karma. Then they can gorge themselves on more sex. It's all you can eat at the sexual cafe.

/Until the nice guy gets married.
//Then biatches will pull back on sex because they think the nice guy won't/can't do anything about it.
///So even without getting laid, nice guys always get screwed.
////Biatches be biatches.
 
2012-05-15 05:39:24 PM  
even the lesbians are looking for men?
 
2012-05-15 05:40:06 PM  
Can't we just put this whole topic to bed by agreeing that harmless men are boring men, and women (like men) generally have unrealistic expectations in life?

//goes back to trying to find a beautiful, intelligent, charming, extroverted, single female.
 
2012-05-15 05:42:51 PM  

Lexx: //goes back to trying to find a beautiful, intelligent, charming, extroverted, single female.


Those are easy to find.....they are the wives of rich good looking men who have jobs.
 
2012-05-15 05:44:21 PM  

medius: even the lesbians are looking for men?


Logically it makes perfect sense: the best place to find a good man is inside a good woman.
 
2012-05-15 05:50:15 PM  
Yes, but I am betting it's possible to find them when they're still young and foolish ;) or just find one into older men.
 
2012-05-15 05:51:06 PM  
And so now someone has anonymously sponsored me for a TF membership .....man thats gotta skew the numbers!
 
2012-05-15 05:58:59 PM  

Virtue: Sorry clicked the button a little too quickly.

I can shoot all of the above down fairly quickly.

For a paper I found some attractive guys and had half of them introduce them selves to women as they normally would.

The other half did the same with one exception.....if the conversation ever got around to what they did for work.....I had them say they were UN-employeed garbage collectors waiting on a union decision before they could go back to work.

The results were EXACTLY what you would expect / and or afraid is true.


I think you need to spend a little less time studying female psychology and more time with a little reading comprehension; he was claiming that all of that effort to get sex or any given hottie is basically worthless and empty if you're looking for a compatible, long-term partner to share life with. All the pick-up lessons in the world won't teach you that; a few people might get lucky and stumble into someone who actually likes what they like and not just the front they put up to get some pussy, but most poon-chasers seem to end up in a series of unhappy loveless relationships.
 
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