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(Reuters)   Judge reinstates Apple's suit against Samsung tablets. Thousands of lawyers rejoice   (reuters.com) divider line 42
    More: Interesting, Samsung Electronics, Apple Inc., United States, Galaxy Tab, lower courts  
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1187 clicks; posted to Geek » on 15 May 2012 at 10:09 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-05-15 09:44:27 AM
More specifically, the appeals court ruled that Apple's patent on the rectangle is not invalid merely because other companies made rectangles decades earlier.
 
2012-05-15 10:14:36 AM
This crap is all the DOJ's fault.

If they would not have pressed MS into making sure that they had competition, MS would have never invested in Apple and it would have died long ago.

FU government interference...
 
2012-05-15 10:31:20 AM

ZAZ: More specifically, the appeals court ruled that Apple's patent on the rectangle is not invalid merely because other companies made rectangles decades earlier.


Know how I know you don't understand what design patents are?
 
2012-05-15 10:43:32 AM
Thousands of lawyers celebrate?

Ok, Apple is covered, but don't forget to add Sumsung's lawyers to the count!

/too many lawyers...
 
2012-05-15 10:46:12 AM

ZAZ: More specifically, the appeals court ruled that Apple's patent on the rectangle is not invalid merely because other companies made rectangles decades earlier.


Don't forget about the rounded edges. Before Apple, everyone used pointed or jagged edges. Band Aids were sold as accessories.
 
2012-05-15 10:49:27 AM
I saw a girl with a samsung galaxy phone on the train the other day and it looked and behaved fantastic. Much faster response times etc than iphones that i've used.

I don't own either so I don't care, but if Apple's only answer to competition is to sue it out of existence, they're no better than M$.
 
2012-05-15 10:54:17 AM

H31N0US: I saw a girl with a samsung galaxy phone on the train the other day


You mean, you could tell it wasn't an iPhone?
 
2012-05-15 11:01:07 AM

tallguywithglasseson: You mean, you could tell it wasn't an iPhone?


Oh, it's hard. I mean you have to stare at it for a whole .5 seconds or so to tell the difference.
 
2012-05-15 11:07:27 AM
Why does the Dodo Bird scene from the Ice Age movie come to mind while I'm reading this?
 
2012-05-15 11:12:38 AM
The Design Alternatives

In section 2-40 and 2-41 of the redacted public legal brief (pdf), Apple offers alternative smartphone designs Samsung could have used instead:

> Front surfaces that are not black or clear
> Front surfaces that are not rectangular, not flat, and without rounded corners
> Display screens that are more square than rectangular or not rectangular at all
> Display screens that are not centered on the front surface of the phone and that have substantial lateral borders
> Speaker openings that are not horizontal slots with rounded ends and that are not centered above the display screen
> Front surfaces that contain substantial adornment
> Phones without bezels at all or very different-looking bezels that are not thin, uniform, and with an inwardly sloping profile

The tablet alternatives Apple felt Samsung should have explored are similar:

> Overall shapes that are not rectangular with four flat sides or that do not have four rounded corners
> Front surfaces that are not completely flat or clear and that have substantial adornment
> Thick frames rather than a thin rim around the front surface
> Profiles that are not thin
> A cluttered appearance

Link
You must use designs that are thick and cluttered. We have patented rectangles. Deal with it.
 
2012-05-15 11:19:40 AM

tallguywithglasseson: You must use designs that are thick and cluttered. We have patented rectangles. Deal with it.


Actually, as you note, they didn't patent "rectangles". They patented a very specific collection of features, and changing even a single one would result in non-infringement.
Note that HP, HTC, RIM, Archos, and others were able to do it... Only Samsung is arguing that they can't possibly come up with any design that isn't indistinguishable from Apple's.

Now, why is that? It's not like Samsung has a culture of copying...
files3.soniccdn.com
 
2012-05-15 11:21:24 AM
gadgetsin.com
Hey, look, it's a rectangle!
Hey, look, it's not indistinguishable from an iPad!
 
2012-05-15 11:36:43 AM

tallguywithglasseson: H31N0US: I saw a girl with a samsung galaxy phone on the train the other day

You mean, you could tell it wasn't an iPhone?


Pretty easily. The screen was bigger, and the navigation was different. I would say it was exactly similar to an iPhone.
 
2012-05-15 11:38:52 AM

Theaetetus: [gadgetsin.com image 640x451]
Hey, look, it's a rectangle!
Hey, look, it's not indistinguishable from an iPad!


To be fair that tablet doesn't have a flat front (the edges look rounded over, although hard to tell), has speaker openings that aren't horizontal slots with rounded ends and aren't centered above the screen, has substantial adornment on the front surface, and doesn't have a thin bezel.
 
2012-05-15 11:51:20 AM

Theaetetus: changing even a single one would result in non-infringement.


That's borne out in German courts, anyway. Unlike in the US, the injunction against Galaxy tab 10.1 was granted. Samsung changed a single part of the design; Apple still tried to block it, but lost.

Top: non-infringing, distinguishable
Bottom: infringing, indistinguishable

img822.imageshack.us
A critical person might wonder if it the design shouldn't just be altered significantly enough to be completely clear of trouble. But Samsung has been arguing all along that this is pretty much exactly what a tablet should look like and that the design was inevitable and therefore shouldn't be allowed to be exclusive to Apple.


Patented:

img829.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-15 11:51:59 AM

itsdan: Theaetetus: [gadgetsin.com image 640x451]
Hey, look, it's a rectangle!
Hey, look, it's not indistinguishable from an iPad!

To be fair that tablet doesn't have a flat front (the edges look rounded over, although hard to tell), has speaker openings that aren't horizontal slots with rounded ends and aren't centered above the screen, has substantial adornment on the front surface, and doesn't have a thin bezel.


Sure. It's got a ton of changes, more than would be necessary.

Here's HPs, btw:
www.techlicious.com
Note the different profile, the plastic bezel that hangs over the front edges, the different radius on the corners, etc.

Honestly, Samsung went pretty far in copying the iPad:
 
2012-05-15 11:52:06 AM

tallguywithglasseson: The Design Alternatives

In section 2-40 and 2-41 of the redacted public legal brief (pdf), Apple offers alternative smartphone designs Samsung could have used instead:
...
The tablet alternatives Apple felt Samsung should have explored are similar:

> Overall shapes that are not rectangular with four flat sides or that do not have four rounded corners
> Front surfaces that are not completely flat or clear and that have substantial adornment
> Thick frames rather than a thin rim around the front surface
> Profiles that are not thin
> A cluttered appearance


So Apple has patented "thin" and "uncluttered" and "flat".

F*ck them and anyone who defends this. No, really...WT-f*cking-F?
 
2012-05-15 11:53:08 AM

Theaetetus: ZAZ: More specifically, the appeals court ruled that Apple's patent on the rectangle is not invalid merely because other companies made rectangles decades earlier.

Know how I know you don't understand what design patents are?


They're an absurdity that exist merely to give the utterly talentless something to do with their time.
 
2012-05-15 11:53:15 AM
Broken link:
www.alldown.ru
 
2012-05-15 11:54:39 AM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: So Apple has patented "thin" and "uncluttered" and "flat".


Well, they're just offering some helpful suggestions of what the competition could do.

You know, in order to not be sued for "copying" them.
 
2012-05-15 11:54:40 AM

tallguywithglasseson: Theaetetus: changing even a single one would result in non-infringement.

That's borne out in German courts, anyway. Unlike in the US, the injunction against Galaxy tab 10.1 was granted. Samsung changed a single part of the design; Apple still tried to block it, but lost.

Top: non-infringing, distinguishable
Bottom: infringing, indistinguishable


Yep. But that "unlike in the US" may have to be removed with TFA's decision.
 
2012-05-15 11:55:50 AM
I know my Galaxy tablets are different from Apple tablets because my Galaxy tablets can actually reproduce stereo audio from their built-in speakers, which is quite unlike an ipad.

/Yes, I have both.
 
2012-05-15 11:56:58 AM

Theaetetus: Note the different profile, the plastic bezel that hangs over the front edges, the different radius on the corners, etc.


And note Apple's suggestion to Samsung:
Overall shapes that are not rectangular with four flat sides or that do not have four rounded corners

They don't say sh*t about "radius". They don't want Samsung to use them at all. Or if they do, they want Samsung to make the device intentionally fugly.

The bottom line is Apple is going after Samsung because they see Samsung as a bigger threat than HP. It has nothing to do with HP's design being "less similar". Wake up.

So, what is your position at Apple? Because no one else would try to argue for this drivel.
 
2012-05-15 11:58:43 AM

tallguywithglasseson: SacriliciousBeerSwiller: So Apple has patented "thin" and "uncluttered" and "flat".

Well, they're just offering some helpful suggestions of what the competition could do.

You know, in order to not be sued for "copying" them.


Well, yeah. "Please make a product that no one will ever buy, and we'll leave you alone."
 
2012-05-15 11:59:19 AM

Theaetetus: [gadgetsin.com image 640x451]
Hey, look, it's a rectangle!
Hey, look, it's not indistinguishable from an iPad!


You're assuming that Apple is suing Samsung in particular because Apple beleives Samsung infringes on its devices and other manufacturers don't. But Apple has also filed suit for devices like the Galaxy Nexus which have a much different design. They're going after Samsung because Samsung is the biggest competitor. If Archos devices had the kind of marketshare that Samsung does, they'd be going after Archos.
 
2012-05-15 12:00:51 PM

Theaetetus: Yep. But that "unlike in the US" may have to be removed with TFA's decision.


True, it may, it might, it could. I never rule anything out with these IP legal wranglings.

For now, however, Apple didn't get its requested preliminary injunction.

So people in the US will still be buying Galaxy tablets -- tablets that German people, at least, wouldn't be able to distinguish from iPads.
 
2012-05-15 12:01:41 PM
Now I see what Theaetetus is do defensive. The current broken patent system is his gravy train.
 
2012-05-15 12:14:39 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Theaetetus: Note the different profile, the plastic bezel that hangs over the front edges, the different radius on the corners, etc.

And note Apple's suggestion to Samsung:
Overall shapes that are not rectangular with four flat sides or that do not have four rounded corners

They don't say sh*t about "radius". They don't want Samsung to use them at all.


Not so. You have to go to the German complaint against the Galaxy Tab, but there's a whole set of alternatives designs listed there.

Or if they do, they want Samsung to make the device intentionally fugly.

Even if true (and that seems to neglect Motorola, Archos, HP, HTC, etc.), so? Aesthetic designs are protectable. Samsung's real argument was that there was no possible way to make a functional tablet that doesn't look like the iPad - basically that it wasn't about aesthetics, but functional design.

But of course, once they admit it's really looks, then they lose.

The bottom line is Apple is going after Samsung because they see Samsung as a bigger threat than HP. It has nothing to do with HP's design being "less similar". Wake up.

You forgot to call me "sheeple".

So, what is your position at Apple? Because no one else would try to argue for this drivel.

I don't work for Apple and never have. But, since you're so certain that bias must be behind our respective arguments, what's your position at Samsung?
 
2012-05-15 12:15:34 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Now I see what Theaetetus is do defensive. The current broken patent system is his gravy train.


whitsblog.com
 
2012-05-15 12:39:28 PM

likefunbutnot: I know my Galaxy tablets are different from Apple tablets because my Galaxy tablets can actually reproduce stereo audio from their built-in speakers, which is quite unlike an ipad.

/Yes, I have both.


I read that as butt speakers and giggled.
 
2012-05-15 12:44:08 PM
NOTE: Thaetetus put me on ignore for posting a u mad to him a couple of weeks ago. Should I file an injunction on his post infringement? I think what he was pissed about was calling him out for presenting himself as an non-apple affiliated patent expert who coincidentally agreed with their stance 100% of the time.
 
2012-05-15 01:02:26 PM
All one has to do is got to a Flash site, and the tablets will immeidately be revealed to be dinstinguishable.
 
2012-05-15 01:16:48 PM

JohnBigBootay: NOTE: Thaetetus put me on ignore for posting a u mad to him a couple of weeks ago. Should I file an injunction on his post infringement? I think what he was pissed about was calling him out for presenting himself as an non-apple affiliated patent expert who coincidentally agreed with their stance 100% of the time.


Just call him a coont. He loves that word. Samsung's female lawyers are coonts.
 
2012-05-15 01:48:13 PM

tallguywithglasseson: H31N0US: I saw a girl with a samsung galaxy phone on the train the other day

You mean, you could tell it wasn't an iPhone?


I have the new galaxy and the step kid has the iphone 4, its a lot larger than the iphone and speeds on the galaxy is faster than most home cable locations, I dont know what apple is going to do since their screen is so tiny in comparison now, one of the guys at work was pissed since he upgraded to the 4s thinking it was on the new network until we tested it the other day and he was getting about 1/4th speed I was getting on LTE. Since the apple store upgraded him he was going to biatch to see what he could do about it, he could be screwed for at least 2 years.
 
2012-05-15 03:38:05 PM
Why is it so hard for you guys to follow Theaetetus' argumentation? I find his posts insightful, and you're responding with nothing but desperate snark and lame ad hominems.
 
2012-05-15 07:38:49 PM

likefunbutnot: my Galaxy tablets can actually reproduce stereo audio from their built-in speakers, which is quite unlike an ipad.


I'm sure the sound coming out of TWO 1" surface-mounted piezos is far richer and immersive than what's possible with just ONE 1" surface-mounted piezo.
 
2012-05-15 07:40:18 PM

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: The bottom line is Apple is going after Samsung because they see Samsung as a bigger threat than HP. It has nothing to do with HP's design being "less similar". Wake up.


I'm not saying that you're not right, but why do you think Apple didn't go after HP at the same time as they went after Samsung?

Do you think they'll be going after HP next?
 
2012-05-15 09:07:00 PM

ReverendJasen: tallguywithglasseson: You mean, you could tell it wasn't an iPhone?

Oh, it's hard. I mean you have to stare at it for a whole .5 seconds or so to tell the difference.


Fortunately, the GS3 won't have that issue.
 
2012-05-15 09:27:42 PM

poot_rootbeer: I'm sure the sound coming out of TWO 1" surface-mounted piezos is far richer and immersive than what's possible with just ONE 1" surface-mounted piezo.


The first time I tried listening to music on my ipad, I thought it was defective because I *am* used to having some kind of stereophonic effect when I hear music.
Now I just think it's defective because of all the stupid limitations created by iOS.
 
2012-05-15 09:53:31 PM

poot_rootbeer: I'm sure the sound coming out of TWO 1" surface-mounted piezos is far richer and immersive than what's possible with just ONE 1" surface-mounted piezo.


That really depends on how you finish off the housing for they speakers, apple regards their speakers as irrelevant and expect their buyers to fork out money for their wireless speakers, I know the touchpad sounds better than most tablets but it only works well now since I flashed it with ICS.

HeartBurnKid: ReverendJasen: tallguywithglasseson: You mean, you could tell it wasn't an iPhone?

Oh, it's hard. I mean you have to stare at it for a whole .5 seconds or so to tell the difference.

Fortunately, the GS3 won't have that issue.


Why is that guy saying its ugly? It looks just like the galaxy sII and its fine, ours look better than the iphone 4s and looks better. The iphone looks like a toy next to our devices or something a teenage girl would have because its cute.
 
2012-05-15 10:01:40 PM

steamingpile: Why is that guy saying its ugly? It looks just like the galaxy sII and its fine, ours look better than the iphone 4s and looks better. The iphone looks like a toy next to our devices or something a teenage girl would have because its cute.


Ummm... no, it really doesn't. Read the whole article; they did a really massive redesign in order to skirt as much of Apple's vaunted "design patent" as possible.

/tbh, not a big fan of any of Samsung's designs
//HTC makes much nicer (and more sturdy) phones, IMHO
 
2012-05-15 11:17:08 PM

steamingpile: Why is that guy saying its ugly? It looks just like the galaxy sII and its fine, ours look better than the iphone 4s and looks better. The iphone looks like a toy next to our devices


You work for Samsung?
 
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