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(The New York Times)   Finally, with student debt topping $1 trillion, college presidents are waking up and recognizing that they might have to handle education costs through methods other than tuition increases. Maybe think about following a budget and things   (nytimes.com) divider line 405
    More: Obvious, student debt, establishments, tuition increases, sports memorabilia, Gordon Gee, tuition, higher educations, academic disciplines  
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8762 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2012 at 5:21 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-14 03:16:13 PM
For a bunch of folks who are paid a lot of money to be smart they sure are slow on the uptake.
 
2012-05-14 03:40:35 PM
Maybe stop throwing good money after bad into the football program?
 
2012-05-14 03:51:40 PM

unlikely: Maybe stop throwing good money after bad into the football program?


Football programs bring in enough to not only pay for themselves, but to also pay for all of the women's sports that don't make any money. If you want to cut all college sports that don't turn a profit, the ladies aren't going to be very happy with you.
 
2012-05-14 03:53:03 PM
It'll never happen. As long as the government is willing to continue to loan money to anyone, schools will just keep raising tuition. It's the circle of life.
 
2012-05-14 03:53:39 PM
""We know the model is not sustainable," said Lawrence T. Lesick, vice president for enrollment management at Ohio Northern University. "Schools are going to have to show the value proposition. Those that don't aren't going to be around.""

ONU costs:

2012-13 Fees Per Year

Arts and Sciences $45,898*
Business Administration $45,898*
Engineering $48,310*
Pharmacy $50,294*



The cognitive dissonance here is remarkable.
 
2012-05-14 03:54:57 PM

netizencain: It'll never happen. As long as the government is willing to continue to loan money to anyone, schools will just keep raising tuition. It's the circle of life.

Winner
 
2012-05-14 04:04:48 PM
YOU MEAN THAT POOR PROFESSOR BUSTING HIS ASS FOR A MERE $2 MILLION A YEAR MIGHT NOT GET A RAISE?
 
2012-05-14 04:05:54 PM

umad: unlikely: Maybe stop throwing good money after bad into the football program?

Football programs bring in enough to not only pay for themselves, but to also pay for all of the women's sports that don't make any money.


Can't tell if serious.

a) What does funding ANY of that have to do with academics
b) You can't just assert that without backing it. Citation needed. Show us a few examples of universities actually making money from football and using it somewhere besides football.
 
2012-05-14 04:11:16 PM

unlikely: umad: unlikely: Maybe stop throwing good money after bad into the football program?

Football programs bring in enough to not only pay for themselves, but to also pay for all of the women's sports that don't make any money.

Can't tell if serious.

a) What does funding ANY of that have to do with academics
b) You can't just assert that without backing it. Citation needed. Show us a few examples of universities actually making money from football and using it somewhere besides football.


It's not very common, but at schools with very popular football programs, the profits are often given to the academic side of the university. The University of Tennessee for example
 
2012-05-14 04:24:09 PM
Curious what will happen when the job market becomes even more saturated with more and more college grads who cannot get a job. A good paying job with full benefits that was waiting for you the day you graduated college is an amazing lie that I am somewhat shocked lasted so damn long.

Wait, you mean paying for and borrowing over $100K at the age of 18 in order to get a job 4-5 years later that only pays $35K per year is not worth it?

I gotta say, I also blame the employers here. I use next to nothing of what I learned in college in my day to day at work. I know people who are specialized do, but that is not what/who I am talking about here. But, I blame the employers due to the ever stricter hiring standards for entry level positions. A Jr. Inside Sales Rep does not need a minimum of a 4 year degree with high marks, extra circulars, etc.
 
2012-05-14 04:25:38 PM

unlikely: b) You can't just assert that without backing it. Citation needed. Show us a few examples of universities actually making money from football and using it somewhere besides football.


I will get right on providing citations that disprove the claims you presented without citations.
 
2012-05-14 04:33:59 PM

quickdraw: For a bunch of folks who are paid a lot of money to be smart they sure are slow on the uptake.


Degrees != brains.
 
2012-05-14 04:36:43 PM

jehovahs witness protection: YOU MEAN THAT POOR PROFESSOR BUSTING HIS ASS FOR A MERE $2 MILLION A YEAR MIGHT NOT GET A RAISE?


Hahaha!! Oh, wow!!

Oh, thank you. I needed that laugh. $2 million? That's great. Funny stuff.
 
2012-05-14 04:55:17 PM

Donnchadha: jehovahs witness protection: YOU MEAN THAT POOR PROFESSOR BUSTING HIS ASS FOR A MERE $2 MILLION A YEAR MIGHT NOT GET A RAISE?

Hahaha!! Oh, wow!!

Oh, thank you. I needed that laugh. $2 million? That's great. Funny stuff.


My reaction exactly. What profs make $2 million a year? Cause I totally want to switch to that field from mine!
 
2012-05-14 05:24:51 PM

netizencain: It'll never happen. As long as the government is willing to continue to loan money to anyone, schools will just keep raising tuition. It's the circle of life.


This. As is with absolutely anything, you put out a bag of money marked "only for those who need it", and all of a sudden you're gonna have a lot more people "needing" it.
 
2012-05-14 05:26:03 PM

umad: unlikely: Maybe stop throwing good money after bad into the football program?

Football programs bring in enough to not only pay for themselves, but to also pay for all of the women's sports that don't make any money. If you want to cut all college sports that don't turn a profit, the ladies aren't going to be very happy with you.


No, football programs in the top 3-5% of football schools pay for themselves, for everybody else they are just pissing money away.
 
2012-05-14 05:26:15 PM

jehovahs witness protection: YOU MEAN THAT POOR PROFESSOR BUSTING HIS ASS FOR A MERE $2 MILLION A YEAR MIGHT NOT GET A RAISE?


Most profs I know make less than the senior database admin in the university IT department...and no DBA guy/gal I know has anything even resembling a PhD.
 
2012-05-14 05:28:10 PM
It is not sustainable and we'll have a new, working, sustainable program ready to present when the government removes the teat.
 
2012-05-14 05:29:21 PM

mysticcat: unlikely: umad: unlikely: Maybe stop throwing good money after bad into the football program?

Football programs bring in enough to not only pay for themselves, but to also pay for all of the women's sports that don't make any money.

Can't tell if serious.

a) What does funding ANY of that have to do with academics
b) You can't just assert that without backing it. Citation needed. Show us a few examples of universities actually making money from football and using it somewhere besides football.

It's not very common, but at schools with very popular football programs, the profits are often given to the academic side of the university. The University of Tennessee for example


Tennessee is an example of a school that has almost a pro-level following in their state and the revenue that generates. Which includes lots, and lots of things that businessmen like Krusty the Klown know are the Sweetest Plums (shirts,etc). There is then the profile that brings in the sponsor money and alumni money and things of that nature. Not many college teams, even the best and historic are going to turn the money in hand over fist just on selling out 5-7 games at home per year. Tennessee, like TX and B1G10 schools are a small percentage of schools with profitable football that might be giving back to other sports.
 
2012-05-14 05:29:32 PM

jehovahs witness protection: YOU MEAN THAT POOR PROFESSOR BUSTING HIS ASS FOR A MERE $2 MILLION A YEAR MIGHT NOT GET A RAISE?


I made more with a high school diploma working in marginal-level CS than my wife did with her PhD in History working for a local university.

You want to cut the cost of going to college?

Require that all aid recipients either have graduated in the top 10% of their class, or be 21 years of age. Don't guarantee the loans of anyone else.

Pay a fraction that is the inverse of the full-time professor-to-administrator ratio (so a school that has 2 non-professors for every professor on full-time payroll gets paid at 1/2 the rate. Those who have twice as many professors as administrators get paid double. Most schools will struggle to break even.
 
2012-05-14 05:30:13 PM

Andromeda: Donnchadha: jehovahs witness protection: YOU MEAN THAT POOR PROFESSOR BUSTING HIS ASS FOR A MERE $2 MILLION A YEAR MIGHT NOT GET A RAISE?

Hahaha!! Oh, wow!!

Oh, thank you. I needed that laugh. $2 million? That's great. Funny stuff.

My reaction exactly. What profs make $2 million a year? Cause I totally want to switch to that field from mine!


guys? I'm pretty sure s/he was kidding
 
2012-05-14 05:31:43 PM

hdhale: jehovahs witness protection: YOU MEAN THAT POOR PROFESSOR BUSTING HIS ASS FOR A MERE $2 MILLION A YEAR MIGHT NOT GET A RAISE?

Most profs I know make less than the senior database admin in the university IT department...and no DBA guy/gal I know has anything even resembling a PhD.


Profs at my college averaged 120k+ salaries. Seems like a good deal if you want to right books too. Summers and a little of the winter off. Not too much work. Administration on the other hand has to be the sweetest of sweet deals. Our pres (a college of 2500 people mind you) made around 600K/year. Yeah, where are our biggest costs coming from?

/tl;dr profs kind of deserve it but admin just doesn't
 
2012-05-14 05:31:50 PM

umad: unlikely: Maybe stop throwing good money after bad into the football program?

Football programs bring in enough to not only pay for themselves, but to also pay for all of the women's sports that don't make any money. If you want to cut all college sports that don't turn a profit, the ladies aren't going to be very happy with you.


I'd be happy with no collegiate sports at all. Unless the collegiate sports are funneling a profits *to* the academic programs that are added above-and-beyond their normal budget allocations.

But they're not, as I am assured by college football fanatics, and so I wouldn't miss them one bit if they were gone for good.
 
2012-05-14 05:32:32 PM
The fact that tuition at Ohio State has gone up 60% in 10 years suggests to me that they're doing something horribly wrong. And the sad thing is, it's probably a normal rate of tuition increase across the board.
 
2012-05-14 05:33:10 PM
crap, i said right write books in a college thread. I are an idiot.
 
2012-05-14 05:34:18 PM
The article: glad someone's saying it, but otherwise, meh.

But that interactive graphic? Fun. Florida State sure seems to have done well comparatively.
 
2012-05-14 05:34:42 PM

rubi_con_man: Require that all aid recipients either have graduated in the top 10% of their class, or be 21 years of age. Don't guarantee the loans of anyone else.


That only works if every high school generated students of the same caliber -- which they don't. The top 50% of College Prep High might be hard working college students, where only the top 2% of Show Up When You Want To Ghetto High might be qualified for a job better than McDonald's. What sucks is that that's the result of the school environment more than the individual students, but at the end of the day, you can't cut off worthy students at College Prep High because you have to give money to Absentee High students who won't make good use of it.
 
2012-05-14 05:34:59 PM

thecpt: Profs at my college averaged 120k+ salaries. Seems like a good deal if you want to right books too. Summers and a little of the winter off. Not too much work. Administration on the other hand has to be the sweetest of sweet deals. Our pres (a college of 2500 people mind you) made around 600K/year. Yeah, where are our biggest costs coming from?


Professors definitely should be paid well, but not many make what you're talking about there without busting their asses far more than those in the private sector, and, you're correct, nowhere near what the admins are making.
 
2012-05-14 05:35:37 PM

rubi_con_man: Require that all aid recipients either have graduated in the top 10% of their class, or be 21 years of age.


Do you understand that the top 10% are the ones who are a) getting academic scholarships or b) from households that can afford to help with college costs?

rubi_con_man: I made more with a high school diploma working in marginal-level CS than my wife did with her PhD in History working for a local university.


I saw a 19 month old kid who can do inverted sit ups. Doesn't mean you'll see it very often, if ever again.
 
2012-05-14 05:35:49 PM

BigLuca: Andromeda: Donnchadha: jehovahs witness protection: YOU MEAN THAT POOR PROFESSOR BUSTING HIS ASS FOR A MERE $2 MILLION A YEAR MIGHT NOT GET A RAISE?

Hahaha!! Oh, wow!!

Oh, thank you. I needed that laugh. $2 million? That's great. Funny stuff.

My reaction exactly. What profs make $2 million a year? Cause I totally want to switch to that field from mine!

guys? I'm pretty sure s/he was kidding


i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-05-14 05:36:08 PM
Maybe stopping the university presidents from re-hiring their recently retired buddies to "advisors"? Oh, and the million dollar accounting scam uncovered by an auditor might have better handled by not firing the auditor for embarrassing the university.

/Just some of the the things I saw when I worked at a university
 
2012-05-14 05:36:43 PM
I'm starting to suspect that tuition will be like medical costs - it won't come down, ever.
 
2012-05-14 05:36:43 PM

Dog Welder: The fact that tuition at Ohio State has gone up 60% in 10 years suggests to me that they're doing something horribly wrong. And the sad thing is, it's probably a normal rate of tuition increase across the board.


My public undergrad lost about 30% of their state funding right before I graduated. Ohio might have cut the state budget for Ohio State.
 
2012-05-14 05:36:52 PM

thecpt: Profs at my college averaged 120k+ salaries.


Which school?

thecpt: profs kind of deserve it but admin just doesn't


I'm guessing you don't know much about what that president did for your school.
 
2012-05-14 05:36:56 PM
I've got about 18K to pay on my student loans.
 
2012-05-14 05:37:08 PM

Dog Welder: The fact that tuition at Ohio State has gone up 60% in 10 years suggests to me that they're doing something horribly wrong. And the sad thing is, it's probably a normal rate of tuition increase across the board.


My alma mater (Ohio University) announced on the same day that they would both raise tuition and the football coach's salary. Yes, Solich has done wonders to the program but eventually he is going to want to move on to a bigger school. He's not going to win a National Championship with any MAC school.
 
2012-05-14 05:38:03 PM
At least in the UC system, there is roughly 1 administrator for every three students, which is a ridiculously high ratio. And something like 85% of all regents made more than 200k for the 2008 year, also a ridiculously high figure.

I believe, more than anything else, that this "grease the wheels" pay system is the single biggest reason for skyrocketing college costs. Sleazy administrators would do a 65k/year job, but get paid more than 200k for it. Obviously demand for college as well as student loans play a significant role, too, but once college administrators learned that they could dip their hands in public coffers via the university racket, there was never any possible outcome except the one we are living.

Clark Kerr is spinning in his grave. His vision is what California education the best in the world in the 60s, and today we're basically Mississippi Junior. Shame on every single person responsible for sending our education system into the toilet.
 
2012-05-14 05:38:23 PM
How about the illegal immigrants who are getting a free education at universities in california? What kind of logic is that. It doesn't take a college degree to pick strawberries.

Natives can't even get in now because the schools accept foreigners instead because they pay more then leave once they graduate.

It boggles the mind
 
2012-05-14 05:39:01 PM

Donnchadha: jehovahs witness protection: YOU MEAN THAT POOR PROFESSOR BUSTING HIS ASS FOR A MERE $2 MILLION A YEAR MIGHT NOT GET A RAISE?

Hahaha!! Oh, wow!!

Oh, thank you. I needed that laugh. $2 million? That's great. Funny stuff.


This. I happened to stumble onto how much two of my favorite professors make - they're at a community college, both have PhD's, and are the front line for a wide variety of students to obtain further education and a future...and they make 34k a year.

WTF.
 
2012-05-14 05:39:03 PM
Nah. It'll just be one more thing to disappear from the American university--tenure. The one thing that will never disappear is overpaid, incompetent administrators.
 
2012-05-14 05:39:50 PM

jehovahs witness protection: YOU MEAN THAT POOR PROFESSOR BUSTING HIS ASS FOR A MERE $2 MILLION A YEAR MIGHT NOT GET A RAISE?


I would love to know where you got that number. Oh right, your ass.
 
Ehh
2012-05-14 05:40:24 PM
Maybe they can hire a few more deans to look into the issue.

/Tell that graduate assistant in the Economics Department to shut up about supply and demand already.
 
2012-05-14 05:40:46 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: Nah. It'll just be one more thing to disappear from the American university--tenure. The one thing that will never disappear is overpaid, incompetent administrators.


I'm ok with this. Tenure should disappear everywhere.
 
2012-05-14 05:41:38 PM
it took em to a trillion dollars to figure this out..... and this is who the country puts faith in educating the future. Doomed from the start.

/no college debt, 2 degrees.
 
2012-05-14 05:42:19 PM

rubi_con_man: You want to cut the cost of going to college?

Require that all aid recipients either have graduated in the top 10% of their class, or be 21 years of age. Don't guarantee the loans of anyone else.


I hope you are never, ever in charge of any college policy, anywhere, ever. With logic like that, I'm not sure I'd trust you to operate my toaster.
 
2012-05-14 05:42:39 PM

Dog Welder: The fact that tuition at Ohio State has gone up 60% in 10 years suggests to me that they're doing something horribly wrong. And the sad thing is, it's probably a normal rate of tuition increase across the board.


When I started at Toledo as an undergrad in 2000-01, tuition for a student taking from 24-36 credits a year was $4300. That's $120-180 a credit hour. Now, it's $8900, and that's only up to a max of 32 credits. That's $278 a credit hour, if you're taking the absolute max possible without incurring more fees. Making it worse, that 32 max makes it so the most credits you can get in a 4-year run is 128. That's only 4 above minimum to graduate- forget getting a minor or changing majors without HUGE fees.

Even with the highest per-credit rate of $180, that's a 54% increase. A semester now costs what a year did when I started there.
 
2012-05-14 05:42:54 PM
Hard to determine how that plays out in the market. Possibly becomes a situation where only the wealthy can attend quality schools. If publics have to pay professors less, top talent will apparently go to privates, even if they'd rather work at publics. We'll see.
 
2012-05-14 05:42:59 PM

Why Would I Read the Article: At least in the UC system, there is roughly 1 administrator for every three students, which is a ridiculously high ratio.


That number makes no sense unless you're including professional and support staff. Do you know how many people it takes to process all those admissions applications, transcripts, financial aid paperwork? How many advisors it takes to meet with each student individually to keep their degree plans on track? People who supervise and coordinate orientation, student services, activities, facilities, etc?
 
2012-05-14 05:43:11 PM
You mean they were lying when they said that they had no other choice than to raise tuitions???

I, for one, am shocked!
 
2012-05-14 05:43:50 PM

kwame: thecpt: profs kind of deserve it but admin just doesn't

I'm guessing you don't know much about what that president did for your school.


I give. What'd he do for it?
 
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