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(Forbes)   Microsoft-funded startup thinks it can stop piracy. Isn't that cute?   (forbes.com) divider line 51
    More: Unlikely  
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1613 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 May 2012 at 6:35 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-14 03:08:42 PM
so they're going to break the law in order to stop people from...breaking the law?

I think I've spotted the flaw in their clever plan....
 
2012-05-14 03:17:55 PM
Better Solution: Make NOT pirating far more convenient and user-friendly (kill annoying DRM.. KILL IT WITH FIRE) and piracy will drop massively...
 
2012-05-14 03:39:48 PM
They're going to make it as easy to buy something as it is to torrent it?
And they're going to make the downloaded files as crap-free as the torrented files?

I'll believe it when I see it.
 
2012-05-14 04:41:51 PM
Hmmmmm, from TFA:

While Pirate Pay won't say how it actually works, Torrent Freak speculates that it's flooding Torrent servers with fake requests until they become confused and stop communicating.

Not an expert, and I don't use torrents... but it seems like that would work?

Of course if it would work, you'd think someone would be doing that already.

I mean, can't a company set up thousands of servers- in different states and countries, with different ISPs (therefore one couldn't easily filter them out.)

And put a bunch of random crap data... or heck, random crap actual video... and label it "Terminator_2.iso" or whatever?

I remember the Napster days when we'd put god-awful songs from the likes of engelbert humperdinck and label it "smells_like_teen_spirit.mp3"
 
2012-05-14 05:58:00 PM

downstairs: Hmmmmm, from TFA:

While Pirate Pay won't say how it actually works, Torrent Freak speculates that it's flooding Torrent servers with fake requests until they become confused and stop communicating.

Not an expert, and I don't use torrents... but it seems like that would work?


in the short term, yes. but torrent sites generally find the crap files and filter 'em out pretty fast.
 
rpm
2012-05-14 06:51:27 PM

downstairs: While Pirate Pay won't say how it actually works, Torrent Freak speculates that it's flooding Torrent servers with fake requests until they become confused and stop communicating.

Not an expert, and I don't use torrents... but it seems like that would work?


Possibly, depending on how the clients are written. Some clients can probably just be overwhelmed.

Here's the kicker - let's suppose it works. You're doing a DDoS, which is illegal, as well as probably DDoSing anybody on the same concentrator that isn't doing anything wrong. Doing something illegal as well as having huge collateral damage. That'll work out real well for 'em.

(this is ignoring the crap files already handled by Weaver95, I'm talking just protocol stuff)
 
2012-05-14 06:56:35 PM
I saw nothing about the content I want in the medium I prefer, so good luck with that.
 
2012-05-14 06:57:21 PM

rpm: downstairs: While Pirate Pay won't say how it actually works, Torrent Freak speculates that it's flooding Torrent servers with fake requests until they become confused and stop communicating.

Not an expert, and I don't use torrents... but it seems like that would work?

Possibly, depending on how the clients are written. Some clients can probably just be overwhelmed.

Here's the kicker - let's suppose it works. You're doing a DDoS, which is illegal, as well as probably DDoSing anybody on the same concentrator that isn't doing anything wrong. Doing something illegal as well as having huge collateral damage. That'll work out real well for 'em.

(this is ignoring the crap files already handled by Weaver95, I'm talking just protocol stuff)


see, that's the bit I don't understand...this start up sounds like they want to just hire a few hackers (or some unix admins and turn them into hackers) and go around blasting away at anyone who's hosting the tracker sites and/or any IP detected that looks like it might be seeding an offending file or three. technologically speaking that might work (although I can think of a couple issues with the approach) but it's highly illegal.

ok, sure - maybe the company is launching their attacks from another country...If someone in THIS country owns any part of an overseas company thats raping US computer crimes laws you can bet your left nut that someone from the FedGov is gonna come knocking on your door fairly quickly...and you will not like the conversation they're gonna have with you.
 
rpm
2012-05-14 07:14:01 PM

Weaver95: see, that's the bit I don't understand...this start up sounds like they want to just hire a few hackers (or some unix admins and turn them into hackers) and go around blasting away at anyone who's hosting the tracker sites and/or any IP detected that looks like it might be seeding an offending file or three. technologically speaking that might work (although I can think of a couple issues with the approach) but it's highly illegal.


Exactly. I'm thinking this is just snake-oil take the money and run. The investing companies complaining is like calling the cops when your weed is stolen.
 
2012-05-14 07:24:42 PM
I don't want free media, I want to be able to watch TV on the internet without crap. I like to watch "Pawn Stars", but there is no way I'm paying $1.99 for an episode for a reality TV show. Once seen, the novelty is gone and there is little reason to watch it again.

Until things change, I will continue to seek entertainment via "illegal" means.
 
2012-05-14 07:29:10 PM
in way after "i deserve free things!"
 
2012-05-14 07:35:05 PM
Well, if their goal is to make me stop watching their shiat, they've succeeded brilliantly.
 
2012-05-14 07:41:20 PM

falcon176: in way after "i deserve free things!"


that only works if you're a corporation or banker.
 
2012-05-14 07:46:48 PM

Weaver95: falcon176: in way after "i deserve free things!"

that only works if you're a corporation or banker.


bankers and corporations are farking us over, therefore I deserve to watch game of thrones for free
 
2012-05-14 07:54:55 PM

falcon176: Weaver95: falcon176: in way after "i deserve free things!"

that only works if you're a corporation or banker.

bankers and corporations are farking us over, therefore I deserve to watch game of thrones for free


exactly!

i'm glad we've had this little chat. i'm sure it was very informative for you.
 
2012-05-14 07:55:03 PM

unlikely: They're going to make it as easy to buy something as it is to torrent it?
And they're going to make the downloaded files as crap-free as the torrented files?

I'll believe it when I see it.


Steam.

You're welcome.
 
2012-05-14 08:00:22 PM

Weaver95: falcon176: Weaver95: falcon176: in way after "i deserve free things!"

that only works if you're a corporation or banker.

bankers and corporations are farking us over, therefore I deserve to watch game of thrones for free

exactly!

i'm glad we've had this little chat. i'm sure it was very informative for you.


more like HBO invested all the money into creating it, therefore they get to decide what to do with it, which is put it on their channel, then after its run non subscribers get access to it giving a reason to subscribe to HBO. but fark HBO they're corporations and shiat or something and also it should be free but after I already pirated it and then I found out people tried to buy it but it's not available, so I justified it after the fact with some bullshiat and I feel better about myself now.
 
2012-05-14 08:02:10 PM

falcon176: Weaver95: falcon176: in way after "i deserve free things!"

that only works if you're a corporation or banker.

bankers and corporations are farking us over, therefore I deserve to watch game of thrones for free


Not free, but not overpriced and locked behind oppressive DRM.

If broadcast TV had tried to use the same draconian models they are trying to push on us now, we'd all still be listening to radio drama on the old Radiotronic.
 
2012-05-14 08:04:04 PM

falcon176: Weaver95: falcon176: Weaver95: falcon176: in way after "i deserve free things!"

that only works if you're a corporation or banker.

bankers and corporations are farking us over, therefore I deserve to watch game of thrones for free

exactly!

i'm glad we've had this little chat. i'm sure it was very informative for you.

more like HBO invested all the money into creating it, therefore they get to decide what to do with it, which is put it on their channel, then after its run non subscribers get access to it giving a reason to subscribe to HBO. but fark HBO they're corporations and shiat or something and also it should be free but after I already pirated it and then I found out people tried to buy it but it's not available, so I justified it after the fact with some bullshiat and I feel better about myself now.


In the interest of full disclosure, is your profession related in any way to the entertainment industry?
 
2012-05-14 08:21:54 PM

Corporate Self: I don't want free media, I want to be able to watch TV on the internet without crap. I like to watch "Pawn Stars", but there is no way I'm paying $1.99 for an episode for a reality TV show. Once seen, the novelty is gone and there is little reason to watch it again.


THIS

Let's say you're paying 3 bucks a day for just the basic cable TV (90 a month) You watch just 2 episodes a day at $1.99 and at the end of the month and you're paying tons more than you would for cable. It's ridiculously expensive.
 
2012-05-14 08:27:10 PM

Corporate Self: Not free, but not overpriced and locked behind oppressive DRM.


This. When I can buy the product I want, the way I want it, I'll be happy to pay (Amazon does this with their MP3 store. DRM-free at reasonable prices, often less than $1 a track if you buy the full album. I would prefer they sold a lossless format, but 320kb/s MP3 is usually good enough for my ears).

If they're going to make me jump through hoops for their product, I'm not going to pay them any money. Since downloading doesn't remove the product from anyone's inventory, whether I watch the show or not is irrelevant to the discussion.

/If a busker is playing music in the street and you walk past without tossing some change in his bucket, are you "stealing" the music?
 
2012-05-14 08:32:29 PM

falcon176: Weaver95: falcon176: Weaver95: falcon176: in way after "i deserve free things!"

that only works if you're a corporation or banker.

bankers and corporations are farking us over, therefore I deserve to watch game of thrones for free

exactly!

i'm glad we've had this little chat. i'm sure it was very informative for you.

more like HBO invested all the money into creating it, therefore they get to decide what to do with it, which is put it on their channel, then after its run non subscribers get access to it giving a reason to subscribe to HBO. but fark HBO they're corporations and shiat or something and also it should be free but after I already pirated it and then I found out people tried to buy it but it's not available, so I justified it after the fact with some bullshiat and I feel better about myself now.


Yeah, but there are other reasons the dumb ways they do things are hurting them. I personally am not comfortable torrenting stuff or using P2P networks, for a number of reasons, by no mean entirely altruistic.
But I am pretty much a lost customer. Nobody really sells the media I want to see, in a format I want, unencumbered by DRM, ads, and other miscellaneous crap, and not bundled with other media I don't want. I watch broadcast TV, and occasionally go to a movie or rent a disk. And that's about it - watch a Youtube video now and then.
If they didn't present their product in a manner that ignores my desires, and presumes that I am a thief (and incoveniences me on that account), I would be consuming considerably more of it. And for an industry that is complaining of shrinking revenues, that seems stupid.
 
2012-05-14 08:57:23 PM
The company is called Pirate Pay. That's precious.
 
2012-05-14 09:09:26 PM

falcon176: more like HBO invested all the money into creating it, therefore they get to decide what to do with it, which is put it on their channel, then after its run non subscribers get access to it giving a reason to subscribe to HBO. but fark HBO they're corporations and shiat or something and also it should be free but after I already pirated it and then I found out people tried to buy it but it's not available, so I justified it after the fact with some bullshiat and I feel better about myself now.


yes, but HBO could reach a wider audience if they weren't so boneheaded about their distribution model. since HBO didn't want to go to the market, the market figured out a solution...which was piracy. sucks to be HBO, but that's what happens when someone really wants a product and you try to artifically block distribution or create external barriers to trade.
 
2012-05-14 09:16:40 PM

downstairs: Not an expert, and I don't use torrents... but it seems like that would work?


I wonder if it might not be a modification on the sink-hole technique researchers used to take down the DNS-Changer (and others) botnet recently? Pretty sure that botnet was using a p2p protocol for command and control.
 
2012-05-14 10:22:00 PM

Weaver95: falcon176: more like HBO invested all the money into creating it, therefore they get to decide what to do with it, which is put it on their channel, then after its run non subscribers get access to it giving a reason to subscribe to HBO. but fark HBO they're corporations and shiat or something and also it should be free but after I already pirated it and then I found out people tried to buy it but it's not available, so I justified it after the fact with some bullshiat and I feel better about myself now.

yes, but HBO could reach a wider audience if they weren't so boneheaded about their distribution model. since HBO didn't want to go to the market, the market figured out a solution...which was piracy. sucks to be HBO, but that's what happens when someone really wants a product and you try to artifically block distribution or create external barriers to trade.


Translation: Weaver95 thinks he has the right to watch premium cable programming without paying for premium cable.

Translation: Weaver95 doesn't understand that the copyright holder is the only one with the right to make copies.

Translation: Weaver95 is a thief.
 
2012-05-14 10:24:12 PM

KelvinTheClown: Translation: Weaver95 thinks he has the right to watch premium cable programming without paying for premium cable.

Translation: Weaver95 doesn't understand that the copyright holder is the only one with the right to make copies.

Translation: Weaver95 is a thief.


technically that would make me a copyright infringer, not a thief.
 
2012-05-14 10:36:29 PM

Weaver95: KelvinTheClown: Translation: Weaver95 thinks he has the right to watch premium cable programming without paying for premium cable.

Translation: Weaver95 doesn't understand that the copyright holder is the only one with the right to make copies.

Translation: Weaver95 is a thief.

technically that would make me a copyright infringer, not a thief.


Morally, you are a thief. You think the rules don't apply to you, and you are happy to break them, if it means you can get what you want.

Pay for HBO if you want to watch Game of Thrones, deadbeat..
 
2012-05-14 10:40:01 PM

KelvinTheClown: Morally, you are a thief. You think the rules don't apply to you, and you are happy to break them, if it means you can get what you want.


pssh. morality. i'm an american. smuggling and avoiding tarrifs is an ancient and time honored tradition in this country. i'm just doing what the founding fathers did way back in the day. nothing more, nothing less.

Pay for HBO if you want to watch Game of Thrones, deadbeat..

but I don't want the whole channel, I just want the one show.
 
2012-05-14 10:46:07 PM

Weaver95: KelvinTheClown: Morally, you are a thief. You think the rules don't apply to you, and you are happy to break them, if it means you can get what you want.

pssh. morality. i'm an american. smuggling and avoiding tarrifs is an ancient and time honored tradition in this country. i'm just doing what the founding fathers did way back in the day. nothing more, nothing less.


Scumbag.

Pay for HBO if you want to watch Game of Thrones, deadbeat..

but I don't want the whole channel, I just want the one show.

Oh, you want it, so that makes it right? The choices you make define who you are. So this is who you are?
 
2012-05-14 10:48:57 PM

KelvinTheClown: Scumbag.


its true you know...smuggling is what helped fund our revolution in the first place. so did a bit of piracy.


Oh, you want it, so that makes it right?

pretty much, yes. you've figured out the secret to living well.
 
2012-05-14 10:57:46 PM

Weaver95: but I don't want the whole channel, I just want the one show.


You, sir, are the Pol Pot of internet piracy.

/apologies to Pol Pot for the comparison
 
2012-05-14 10:59:52 PM

John Nash: Weaver95: but I don't want the whole channel, I just want the one show.

You, sir, are the Pol Pot of internet piracy.

/apologies to Pol Pot for the comparison


I was hoping to be the Stalin of internet piracy.
 
2012-05-14 11:26:12 PM

KelvinTheClown: Weaver95: KelvinTheClown: Translation: Weaver95 thinks he has the right to watch premium cable programming without paying for premium cable.

Translation: Weaver95 doesn't understand that the copyright holder is the only one with the right to make copies.

Translation: Weaver95 is a thief.

technically that would make me a copyright infringer, not a thief.

Morally, you are a thief. You think the rules don't apply to you, and you are happy to break them, if it means you can get what you want.

Pay for HBO if you want to watch Game of Thrones, deadbeat..


KevinTheClown in the interest of full disclosure, are you involved with entertainment industry in any fashion?
 
2012-05-14 11:28:36 PM

KelvinTheClown: Weaver95: KelvinTheClown: Morally, you are a thief. You think the rules don't apply to you, and you are happy to break them, if it means you can get what you want.

pssh. morality. i'm an american. smuggling and avoiding tarrifs is an ancient and time honored tradition in this country. i'm just doing what the founding fathers did way back in the day. nothing more, nothing less.

Scumbag.

Pay for HBO if you want to watch Game of Thrones, deadbeat..

but I don't want the whole channel, I just want the one show.

Oh, you want it, so that makes it right? The choices you make define who you are. So this is who you are?


Also, Mr. Clown, you profile states:

"Mostly from the Video tab, which means that the links will stop working if YouTube goes through one their semi-frequent "pullings o' the copyright violations".

You are aware that some of video links you listed in your profile may be to copyrighted material and yet you link to them anyway.

Hypocrit much?
 
2012-05-14 11:44:22 PM

Corporate Self: KelvinTheClown: Weaver95: KelvinTheClown: Translation: Weaver95 thinks he has the right to watch premium cable programming without paying for premium cable.

Translation: Weaver95 doesn't understand that the copyright holder is the only one with the right to make copies.

Translation: Weaver95 is a thief.

technically that would make me a copyright infringer, not a thief.

Morally, you are a thief. You think the rules don't apply to you, and you are happy to break them, if it means you can get what you want.

Pay for HBO if you want to watch Game of Thrones, deadbeat..

KevinTheClown in the interest of full disclosure, are you involved with entertainment industry in any fashion?


Nope, I work in a hospital.

Corporate Self: KelvinTheClown: Weaver95: KelvinTheClown: Morally, you are a thief. You think the rules don't apply to you, and you are happy to break them, if it means you can get what you want.

pssh. morality. i'm an american. smuggling and avoiding tarrifs is an ancient and time honored tradition in this country. i'm just doing what the founding fathers did way back in the day. nothing more, nothing less.

Scumbag.

Pay for HBO if you want to watch Game of Thrones, deadbeat..

but I don't want the whole channel, I just want the one show.

Oh, you want it, so that makes it right? The choices you make define who you are. So this is who you are?

Also, Mr. Clown, you profile states:

"Mostly from the Video tab, which means that the links will stop working if YouTube goes through one their semi-frequent "pullings o' the copyright violations".

You are aware that some of video links you listed in your profile may be to copyrighted material and yet you link to them anyway.

Hypocrit much?


Good point. That means that downloading Game of Thrones instead of paying for HBO is perfectly fine.
 
2012-05-14 11:51:03 PM
Funny thing s that most people I know that pirate shiat uses a Windows OS
 
jgi
2012-05-14 11:51:18 PM
I don't think I have the right to pirate or that I deserve media for free, but I do it because I can. I understand some people can't, because they don't have the technical knowledge, and if those people are my friends I will give them a hard drive full of media so that they too can enjoy it. If someone does have a good amount of technical knowledge, I will teach them how to properly torrent, I will invite them to private sites so they don't have to languish on the public sites and risk being caught. I used to pretend that if the media companies offered the media in my preferred formats that I would pay for the media. I won't pay for the media. I just don't care anymore.

I'll happily spend $100 to see my favorite musician live but I'll never pay for the album. I'll never pay to watch American Pickers, though I often think about driving to Leclaire, Iowa to buy something at their store.

I don't have an answer as to how the media companies can shift their business model to become more profitable, or whatever their goals are. But that's not my job. All I know is that they should not count on me for revenue. Produce Game of Thrones or don't, I really don't care. If an artist wants to make art, they will -- regardless of a payday.
 
2012-05-15 12:01:39 AM

KelvinTheClown: Hypocritical BS


So you knowing post links to copyrighted material.

Have anything to say about that, Sparky?
 
2012-05-15 12:21:41 AM
Wow, haven't seen people shiat their pants over piracy in awhile. Good to see that there's still histrionic whiners.
In answer to the histrionics here's an interesting link Baen Free Books A book publisher, at their official webpage. Giving away their books. And claiming to make money doing it. From the Librarian's intro: Don't bother robbing me, twit. I will cheerfully put up the stuff for free myself. Because I am quite confident that any "losses" I sustain will be more than made up for by the expansion in the size of my audience.

Here's another link BaenCD at the Fifth Imperium A third party apparently enabling people to wholesale pirate Baen's work, oh wait... from the disclaimer:

This site is not associated with Baen Publishing Enterprises .
Well... 'not associated' in the sense that they don't run this site or support it in any way, shape or form beyond the fact that they've given permission for their CDs to be freely distributed by interested third parties... Baen knows all about this site, to the point where the publisher has my phone number and she's not afraid to use it.


I recommend both places wholeheartedly. The only thing stopping other entertainment venues from trying something similar is clinging to an outdated business model.
 
2012-05-15 12:34:05 AM

KelvinTheClown: The choices you make define who you are. So this is who you are?


lmao you cannot be serious
 
2012-05-15 12:45:29 AM
Sure, go right ahead. As soon as an ISP is detected as bogus or anti P2P, it gets listed on the Peerblock blacklist. Badda-BAM! No more threat.

Keep humping that chicken, you moguls!
 
2012-05-15 04:10:11 AM

Weaver95: KelvinTheClown: Scumbag.

its true you know...smuggling is what helped fund our revolution in the first place. so did a bit of piracy.


Oh, you want it, so that makes it right?

pretty much, yes. you've figured out the secret to living well.


So have the bankers and corporation bigwigs then. Problem?
 
2012-05-15 07:30:46 AM

jgi: I don't have an answer as to how the media companies can shift their business model to become more profitable, or whatever their goals are. But that's not my job.


Here's the problem: the film/TV companies are run by total dickheads, who can't grasp what the people out there want which is easy-to-access, sensibly priced, downloadable media. No, I ain't going to pay £9 so I can buy Die Hard on a download when the farking DVD costs about £5 from Amazon. And don't tell me about value over cost - I know I can get it right now, but I also know that £9 is a rip-off, and I'd rather go without at that price.
 
2012-05-15 10:12:54 AM

Kuroshin: unlikely: They're going to make it as easy to buy something as it is to torrent it?
And they're going to make the downloaded files as crap-free as the torrented files?

I'll believe it when I see it.

Steam.

You're welcome.


I have been happy - eager, even - to purchase a huge number of games on Steam. They're the perfect proof that if you make it easier than the torrent people will pay. Now if HBO would figure that out...
 
2012-05-15 10:13:50 AM
www.fybertech.com

weaver vs. clown! place your bets!
 
2012-05-15 12:37:47 PM

downstairs: Hmmmmm, from TFA:

While Pirate Pay won't say how it actually works, Torrent Freak speculates that it's flooding Torrent servers with fake requests until they become confused and stop communicating.

Not an expert, and I don't use torrents... but it seems like that would work?

Of course if it would work, you'd think someone would be doing that already.

I mean, can't a company set up thousands of servers- in different states and countries, with different ISPs (therefore one couldn't easily filter them out.)

And put a bunch of random crap data... or heck, random crap actual video... and label it "Terminator_2.iso" or whatever?

I remember the Napster days when we'd put god-awful songs from the likes of engelbert humperdinck and label it "smells_like_teen_spirit.mp3"


I'm not fully versed either - but it sounds like they are simply launching a DoS attack against servers. Something frowned upon in the Internet at best and possible illegal.
 
rpm
2012-05-15 08:23:37 PM

KelvinTheClown: Translation: Weaver95 doesn't understand that the copyright holder is the only one with the right to make copies.


Translation: KelvinTheClown doesn't know copyright law worth dick.

You have the right to make copies of what you have. Period. Only the copyright holder has the right to DISTRIBUTE copies.
 
rpm
2012-05-15 08:30:07 PM

rpm: KelvinTheClown: Translation: Weaver95 doesn't understand that the copyright holder is the only one with the right to make copies.

Translation: KelvinTheClown doesn't know copyright law worth dick.

You have the right to make copies of what you have. Period. Only the copyright holder has the right to DISTRIBUTE copies.


FTFM: those copies. Copyright owner has squat all to say about distribution of copies they've already distributed.
 
2012-05-16 12:08:22 AM

unlikely: Kuroshin: unlikely: They're going to make it as easy to buy something as it is to torrent it?
And they're going to make the downloaded files as crap-free as the torrented files?

I'll believe it when I see it.

Steam.

You're welcome.

I have been happy - eager, even - to purchase a huge number of games on Steam. They're the perfect proof that if you make it easier than the torrent people will pay. Now if HBO would figure that out...


"The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is currently unavailable. Please try again later."
^ This is utterly unacceptable, especially for a single-player offline game. I biatched, others biatched, and posted to their own damned forums about this issue and not farking once did they have anything to say regarding the problem. When one poster helpfully replied that running the game executable without starting Steam would get us playing, we were elated. Until Steam updated the executable to disable that option; while still ignoring the original issue. I downloaded a crack and removed Steam from my system startup files at that point.

Fark Steam. They can eat hickory smoked horse buttholes til they pop for all I care. Any game house wanting my money in the future should think long and hard about making that new game portable and hassle-free for their paying customers.
 
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