jackiepaper: That last paragraph's intellectual dishonesty is staggering. California's tax system is farked thanks to a wee little thing called Prop 13. Any discussion of why the state is messed up that fails to mention it is basically lying.

That's a big part of it, yes. Prop 218 made it even worse. Any system in which things that cost money can be approved by a majority vote but paying for it requires a 2/3rds vote is designed to fail. That goes double when both the Legislature and the general public (through the "let's vote on ALL THE THINGS" initiative process) are doing stuff.

jackiepaper: That last paragraph's intellectual dishonesty is staggering. California's tax system is farked thanks to a wee little thing called Prop 13. Any discussion of why the state is messed up that fails to mention it is basically lying.

Just wondering, who was governor back then when that crazy bill passed?

Are they going to nationalize Facebook then?

RoyBatty: jackiepaper: That last paragraph's intellectual dishonesty is staggering. California's tax system is farked thanks to a wee little thing called Prop 13. Any discussion of why the state is messed up that fails to mention it is basically lying.

Just wondering, who was governor back then when that crazy bill passed?

Prop 13 was an initiative, not a bill.

Just wondering, who was governor back then when that crazy bill passed?

It was a Proposition so who was Gov does not matter. Brown was, and opposed it.

RoyBatty: Just wondering, who was governor back then when that crazy bill proposition passed by the voters?

Thanks for fixing that. I'm still wondering why this is somehow Jerry Brown's fault.

California is screwed because the state government spends insanely too much money. Their taxes are among the hughest in the country and they're still going broke. Nothing Facebook does will change that dynamic.

1. no it won't. they need 16B.
2. it gets worse. when CA gets the 2-4B from the IPO taxes, they will increase spending by that amount and forget that they won't get that money again in next year. happened during the dot com boom.

stagepoke: Just wondering, who was governor back then when that crazy bill passed?

It was a Proposition so who was Gov does not matter. Brown was, and opposed it.

I know, I was a resident, and voted for Brown then (and I still like him.)

Mainly just saying the more things change, the more things stay the same.

OTOH, Jerry Brown pulled off one of the biggest flip flops in all of political history by first campaigning adamantly opposed to 13, and then once it passed, recasting himself and his Jesuit/Buddhist background as being the premier champion of 13.

The best-known Brown acrobatic was his turn-around on Proposition 13, the revolutionary initiative by apartment owners' lobbyist Howard Jarvis that dramatically slashed property taxes.

Brown loudly opposed the measure when it was on the 1978 primary election ballot. But after voters passed it by 2 to 1, he proclaimed himself a "born-again tax cutter." The governor became so enthusiastic in implementing Prop. 13 that he earned the nickname "Jerry Jarvis." And Jarvis endorsed him that fall for reelection.

Cagey B: RoyBatty: Just wondering, who was governor back then when that crazy bill proposition passed by the voters?

Thanks for fixing that. I'm still wondering why this is somehow Jerry Brown's fault.

Well it's mostly not, except that once 13 passed, he championed it to no end.

I actually really like Jerry Brown, AND I like Mike Royko, who penned, and later regretted, calling Brown "Governor Moonbeam". But I like the name "Governor Moonbeam" too, and voted to have a Senator Moonbeam when I had the chance.

Crazy man on TV says Facebook is a ''buy''

RoyBatty: Well it's mostly not, except that once 13 passed, he championed it to no end.

True enough. Enabling Howard Jarvis and his band of idiots was a pretty terrible idea.

The solution is even easier that that, simply stop paying to feed, house, educate and give medical care to the 3M illegal immigrants in the State and your problem is solved!

Cut back those bloated salaries and benefits.

So this supposed $100 Billion worth that is pegged as the value of Facebook. Not that anyone has seen it, but other than selling all the data it has collected and promised never to let anyone have access to, what is their income vs expenditure?

Do they actually have cash flow or is it all just hype?

farkerts: The solution is even easier that that, simply stop paying to feed, house, educate and give medical care to the 3M illegal immigrants in the State and your problem is solved!

No, no. It's prop 13. If we didn't have prop 13 we could pay for them easily. We need to tax the elderly at a higher rate so mamacitas can take their ninas and ninos to the emergency rooms for ear aches. Also it costs a lot to have the helicopter fly them to trauma centers after their gang fights. (happens at least once a month here)

That sound you hear is the pension bomb in California.

tick, tick, tick.

jackiepaper: That last paragraph's intellectual dishonesty is staggering. California's tax system is farked thanks to a wee little thing called Prop 13. Any discussion of why the state is messed up that fails to mention it is basically lying.

Damn those voters for placing a clear limit on how much the Legislature can leech out of their pockets! Damn them to heck!

Not going to buy any. But hey you instant figurative millionaires, blow off paying down your mortgage this month and spend it in Vegas and on lottery tickets. They'll always help you to remove that financial burden.

BTW subby, why the COOL tag? It's stupid.

JohnCarter: So this supposed $100 Billion worth that is pegged as the value of Facebook. Not that anyone has seen it, but other than selling all the data it has collected and promised never to let anyone have access to, what is their income vs expenditure?

Do they actually have cash flow or is it all just hype?

Expected Market Capitalization + private share value = $100 Billion ... it's not too hard of a stretch if the IPO is successful ... Google did 23 or 24 Billion in market cap with their IPO and Facebook seems to be buzzing a bit more than even Google did back in the day.

DavidVincent: That sound you hear is the pension bomb in California.

tick, tick, tick.

This.

When you read TFA, and get to the part comparing it to the dot com boom, I heard the sound of ticking bomb.

Cagey B: RoyBatty: jackiepaper: That last paragraph's intellectual dishonesty is staggering. California's tax system is farked thanks to a wee little thing called Prop 13. Any discussion of why the state is messed up that fails to mention it is basically lying.

Just wondering, who was governor back then when that crazy bill passed?

Prop 13 was an initiative, not a bill.

And you're arguing semantics on something that has completely hosed the most populous state? Aren't you precious.

DavidVincent: farkerts: The solution is even easier that that, simply stop paying to feed, house, educate and give medical care to the 3M illegal immigrants in the State and your problem is solved!

No, no. It's prop 13. If we didn't have prop 13 we could pay for them easily. We need to tax the elderly at a higher rate so mamacitas can take their ninas and ninos to the emergency rooms for ear aches. Also it costs a lot to have the helicopter fly them to trauma centers after their gang fights. (happens at least once a month here)

Hear hear! If not for Prop 13, we could also pay for a million extra lane-miles of road, snow machines in San Diego, and speed metal bands on every gold-paved street corner!

/Actually, it's 10,000,000 new immigrants
//7,000,000 new people on Medi-Cal (Medicaid, but CA is special)
///150,000 new taxpayers
////no problem!

I would be buying a house somewhere without state income tax, and making it my primary residence. Then I would sell my shares. I didn't even know a state could tax capital gains. Luckily that's not the case here.

jackiepaper: That last paragraph's intellectual dishonesty is staggering. California's tax system is farked thanks to a wee little thing called Prop 13. Any discussion of why the state is messed up that fails to mention it is basically lying.

So is not mentioning the public benefit costs, especially the teachers union and prison guard unions. Go ahead and look at those costs. Teachers union spent 200 million in lobbying California last decade, by far the largest political influence.

bloatboy: DavidVincent: farkerts: The solution is even easier that that, simply stop paying to feed, house, educate and give medical care to the 3M illegal immigrants in the State and your problem is solved!

No, no. It's prop 13. If we didn't have prop 13 we could pay for them easily. We need to tax the elderly at a higher rate so mamacitas can take their ninas and ninos to the emergency rooms for ear aches. Also it costs a lot to have the helicopter fly them to trauma centers after their gang fights. (happens at least once a month here)

Hear hear! If not for Prop 13, we could also pay for a million extra lane-miles of road, snow machines in San Diego, and speed metal bands on every gold-paved street corner!

/Actually, it's 10,000,000 new immigrants
//7,000,000 new people on Medi-Cal (Medicaid, but CA is special)
///150,000 new taxpayers
////no problem!


I was told there would be no math.

jackiepaper: jvl: jackiepaper: That last paragraph's intellectual dishonesty is staggering. California's tax system is farked thanks to a wee little thing called Prop 13. Any discussion of why the state is messed up that fails to mention it is basically lying.

Damn those voters for placing a clear limit on how much the Legislature can leech out of their pockets! Damn them to heck!

"Voters are often short-sighted":a special report by Ric Romero on tonight's evening news.

Will Ric's report be followed by a report about how Legislators (both D and R) love to use the public's money to give presents to their constituents?

In a retarded world where limits must be placed, where would you place the limits? Oh, in a different place than Prop 13? Alert the press!

The reason I voted for Brown: He will fight hard to raise taxes to help balance the budget. But when the people say "no", he will give them exactly what they asked for: brutal cutbacks. If the people don't like the cutbacks, the solution is easy.

What's a Budget Bukaki?

seadoo2006: JohnCarter: So this supposed $100 Billion worth that is pegged as the value of Facebook. Not that anyone has seen it, but other than selling all the data it has collected and promised never to let anyone have access to, what is their income vs expenditure?

Do they actually have cash flow or is it all just hype?

Expected Market Capitalization + private share value = $100 Billion ... it's not too hard of a stretch if the IPO is successful ... Google did 23 or 24 Billion in market cap with their IPO and Facebook seems to be buzzing a bit more than even Google did back in the day.

Google also is valued at 5 times revenue vs. Facebook which is trying to valuate at 24 times revenue. That's why I'm staying away.

End prop 13 and we can finally force the elderly out of CA when they have to choose between paying taxes or food & medicine.

Hurray for Fark Soshulism?

Pinner: What's a Budget Bukaki?

Bad looking hookers.

But we are discussing Budget "Kabuki", which is an entirely different kind of show which Retarded Liberal Republican Governors confuse with a kind of Japanese Theater.

I'm 10yrs removed from living in California (all in So Cal), and it seems every year something more is farked in that state that convinces me that moving and taking a cut in pay was worth every penny. I think the only thing I truly miss is the melting pot of cuisine available.

Rapmaster2000: seadoo2006: JohnCarter: So this supposed $100 Billion worth that is pegged as the value of Facebook. Not that anyone has seen it, but other than selling all the data it has collected and promised never to let anyone have access to, what is their income vs expenditure?

Do they actually have cash flow or is it all just hype?

Expected Market Capitalization + private share value = $100 Billion ... it's not too hard of a stretch if the IPO is successful ... Google did 23 or 24 Billion in market cap with their IPO and Facebook seems to be buzzing a bit more than even Google did back in the day.

Google also is valued at 5 times revenue vs. Facebook which is trying to valuate at 24 times revenue. That's why I'm staying away.

True ... either that or I'll look like an asshat again like I did in 2004 ... Still pissed I didn't throw some retirement money at Google.

Cagey B: jackiepaper: That last paragraph's intellectual dishonesty is staggering. California's tax system is farked thanks to a wee little thing called Prop 13. Any discussion of why the state is messed up that fails to mention it is basically lying.

That's a big part of it, yes. Prop 218 made it even worse. Any system in which things that cost money can be approved by a majority vote but paying for it requires a 2/3rds vote is designed to fail. That goes double when both the Legislature and the general public (through the "let's vote on ALL THE THINGS" initiative process) are doing stuff.

This - if the politicians somehow balanced the budget this afternoon, tomorrow morning, we the idiot people of California would go out and vote ourselves a bunch of expensive goodies and generous tax cuts to help not pay for them.
Direct Democracy=Total Fail.

LawrencePerson: California is screwed because the state government spends insanely too much money. Their taxes are among the hughest in the country and they're still going broke. Nothing Facebook does will change that dynamic.

State and local tax government taxes equal about 10k per person population. This is on par with most states (though yes more than Texas 7k a person). Not drastically insanely high though.

How much will it cost us when that dog (admittedly laika-like atm) eventually craters?

Oh those evil Wall Street types going and balancing CA's budget. Those bloodsucking vampires. Don't they know that investment in business is bad? I hope the occupiers do not hear about this, or they are going to really upset.

jdmac: Oh those evil Wall Street types going and balancing CA's budget. Those bloodsucking vampires. Don't they know that investment in business is bad? I hope the occupiers do not hear about this, or they are going to really upset.

That's the crappiest strawman I've ever seen.