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(Bloomberg)   March 2012: Oil rises on Greek debt fears. May 2012: Oil falls on Greek debt fears   (bloomberg.com) divider line 63
    More: Asinine, Greek, ICE Futures Europe, University of Haifa, Greek debt, long position, seaway, rises, West Texas Intermediate  
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1979 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2012 at 9:27 AM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-14 09:30:58 AM  
Yes, subby, the rich manipulate the markets
 
2012-05-14 09:32:12 AM  
Meh, none of us will see much at the pump.
 
2012-05-14 09:33:45 AM  

basemetal: Meh, none of us will see much at the pump.


because it's already so over-inflated here already as to keep the masses docile in thinking that "things are the same so they ain't changing!"
 
2012-05-14 09:35:03 AM  
RANT

What's asinine is that over the last few weeks oil as dropped $10 a barrel yet gas in my area as only gone down a f*cking penny. Yet oil goes up 50 cents and gas goes up 20 cents the next day.

/RANT
 
2012-05-14 09:36:19 AM  
You don't still buy that price rise and fall on "fears" crap do you?
 
2012-05-14 09:38:35 AM  
Profit taking.
 
2012-05-14 09:38:48 AM  
Headline: "Oil rises on fears of loss of record profits"
 
2012-05-14 09:39:30 AM  
The global financial crisis approaches, riding the bold horse of World War 3. The Greeks will vote down the austerity measures and Germany will pull their funds out of the country. Rome will burn as trash piles up in the suburbs. The collapse will reverberate throughout the European Union as country after country falls into ruin. Then, when we can't imagine it getting any worse, Israel strikes Iran's nuclear development facilities, releasing a cloud of radiation that mutates men into beasts. Russia doesn't flinch as Putin smashes the button for an all out nuclear assault on the approaching hordes of starving, maddened Chinese who have begun rushing into the country in search of medical treatment and basic supplies. At this point, the United States closes down its ports and borders. No one knows when, but every one knows that a nuclear strike is coming. Neighbors live in fear of one another, shooting each other in the dark hallways of their own homes. We're staring a nightmare in the face, and it's so terrifying, we don't even recognize it.
 
2012-05-14 09:40:42 AM  
It's Greece, either way the oil has hit the anus!
 
2012-05-14 09:42:12 AM  
The real story here is that Greece is about one millimeter away from triggering conditions that could (no guarantee) lead to their exit from the euro. It depends on just how serious the German bankers are. Those bankers and some pundits like to say that the exposure from such an event has already been eliminated. Others aren't so sure, and even if Greece's exit did not directly trigger a catastrophe, what the bankers don't mention is that there are other eyes (Portugal, Ireland, Spain, maybe even Italy) intently watching the situation, and their voters are just about as angry as the Greeks.

The political situation in Greece is hopeless. The parties have splintered, and the one party that is saying "Hell no" to austerity is gaining support rapidly, especially at the expense of the grown-up parties saying, "We need to find a way out of the mess." So it's sort of their equivalent of the teabaggers, although in this case it's the far-left Syriza party. But the impulse is the same: "Hell no, just say no, no, no."

Not even the most stiffnecked German banker believes that any member apart from Greece can exit without a disaster. And if it's Spain, say good night. We'll look back at 2008 fondly as "The Psuedo-Meltdown Before the Real One."

/CSB
 
2012-05-14 09:43:54 AM  

spentmiles: The global financial crisis approaches, riding the bold horse of World War 3. The Greeks will vote down the austerity measures and Germany will pull their funds out of the country. Rome will burn as trash piles up in the suburbs. The collapse will reverberate throughout the European Union as country after country falls into ruin. Then, when we can't imagine it getting any worse, Israel strikes Iran's nuclear development facilities, releasing a cloud of radiation that mutates men into beasts. Russia doesn't flinch as Putin smashes the button for an all out nuclear assault on the approaching hordes of starving, maddened Chinese who have begun rushing into the country in search of medical treatment and basic supplies. At this point, the United States closes down its ports and borders. No one knows when, but every one knows that a nuclear strike is coming. Neighbors live in fear of one another, shooting each other in the dark hallways of their own homes. We're staring a nightmare in the face, and it's so terrifying, we don't even recognize it.


Relax Francis, there is at least one more generation of money to be had before Hell gets loosed.
When they reissue the currency, then buy soup.

/and it is coming, I hear the train a commin'. It's commin' round the bend
 
2012-05-14 09:44:40 AM  
Reporting that tries to explain the days market movements in terms of some narrative? Usually bullshiat. Cut from whole cloth.
Most market movements are reactions to individual company or industry woes. Some broad shifts do occur, say, when almost all of Europe is facing a turn back to recession. But that's the exception.

Oil's down because the price did it's annual 'run-up to summer' and demand was soft. That's all there is to it.
(Considering US meandering, Euro floundering and China trying to carefully brake their economy, it's no wonder)
 
2012-05-14 09:46:04 AM  

ringersol: Reporting that tries to explain the days market movements in terms of some narrative? Usually bullshiat. Cut from whole cloth.
Most market movements are reactions to individual company or industry woes. Some broad shifts do occur, say, when almost all of Europe is facing a turn back to recession. But that's the exception.

Oil's down because the price did it's annual 'run-up to summer' and demand was soft. That's all there is to it.
(Considering US meandering, Euro floundering and China trying to carefully brake their economy, it's no wonder)


Actually, most all of it is Bullchit, writ large.
 
2012-05-14 09:49:00 AM  

snocone: You don't still buy that price rise and fall on "fears" crap do you?


Depends. When debt securities are threatened by potential defaults and widespread bailouts, investors with part or most of their portfolio in that sector choose other options to make their money, such as the energy sector (oil/gas), especially if it's doing well. The Arab Spring actually helped energy values, despite the volatility (I'm talking investor return, not at-the-pump prices). Investors tell themselves they could always go back to debt securities at some later point, since government-backed investments are usually more stable. Since the Greek crisis is still an issue, and the energy sector remains volatile, lots of investors are pulling out of energy, which devalues it. As such, fears related to the debt crisis have had both a positive and negative impact on energy investments, depending on the period.

Uncertainty and fear among investors is a very powerful thing, so one should never underestimate the amount of damage a mass stock exodus can cause. Basically they ask themselves the following question: "Since my portfolio is going down the shiatter right now, should I bail and shift my money into defensive sectors, taking a small hit but gaining it back relatively quickly, or should I take a bigger hit, wait it out, and cash in when the market goes back up?" Most of the time, the average investor looking to build up their retirement fund will opt for a defensive stance, unless they have a significant amount of funds to play with.
 
2012-05-14 09:53:12 AM  
I can't get behind that!
 
2012-05-14 10:02:00 AM  

Savage Bacon: snocone: You don't still buy that price rise and fall on "fears" crap do you?

Depends. When debt securities are threatened by potential defaults and widespread bailouts, investors with part or most of their portfolio in that sector choose other options to make their money, such as the energy sector (oil/gas), especially if it's doing well. The Arab Spring actually helped energy values, despite the volatility (I'm talking investor return, not at-the-pump prices). Investors tell themselves they could always go back to debt securities at some later point, since government-backed investments are usually more stable. Since the Greek crisis is still an issue, and the energy sector remains volatile, lots of investors are pulling out of energy, which devalues it. As such, fears related to the debt crisis have had both a positive and negative impact on energy investments, depending on the period.

Uncertainty and fear among investors is a very powerful thing, so one should never underestimate the amount of damage a mass stock exodus can cause. Basically they ask themselves the following question: "Since my portfolio is going down the shiatter right now, should I bail and shift my money into defensive sectors, taking a small hit but gaining it back relatively quickly, or should I take a bigger hit, wait it out, and cash in when the market goes back up?" Most of the time, the average investor looking to build up their retirement fund will opt for a defensive stance, unless they have a significant amount of funds to play with.


The Oil Biggies are NOT "investors". This is another boatload o crap.
 
2012-05-14 10:03:07 AM  
So the real question is how can I get filthy stinking rich off of this?

/kidding but only just barely
 
2012-05-14 10:11:44 AM  

snocone: Savage Bacon: snocone: You don't still buy that price rise and fall on "fears" crap do you?

Depends. When debt securities are threatened by potential defaults and widespread bailouts, investors with part or most of their portfolio in that sector choose other options to make their money, such as the energy sector (oil/gas), especially if it's doing well. The Arab Spring actually helped energy values, despite the volatility (I'm talking investor return, not at-the-pump prices). Investors tell themselves they could always go back to debt securities at some later point, since government-backed investments are usually more stable. Since the Greek crisis is still an issue, and the energy sector remains volatile, lots of investors are pulling out of energy, which devalues it. As such, fears related to the debt crisis have had both a positive and negative impact on energy investments, depending on the period.

Uncertainty and fear among investors is a very powerful thing, so one should never underestimate the amount of damage a mass stock exodus can cause. Basically they ask themselves the following question: "Since my portfolio is going down the shiatter right now, should I bail and shift my money into defensive sectors, taking a small hit but gaining it back relatively quickly, or should I take a bigger hit, wait it out, and cash in when the market goes back up?" Most of the time, the average investor looking to build up their retirement fund will opt for a defensive stance, unless they have a significant amount of funds to play with.

The Oil Biggies are NOT "investors". This is another boatload o crap.


'Course they aren't, investors are those who buy stock issued by these "Oil Biggies", who produce/process/distribute oil, which was part of my point.
 
2012-05-14 10:14:48 AM  
You can't explain that.
 
2012-05-14 10:15:23 AM  
globally, our leaders are failing us.
 
2012-05-14 10:15:50 AM  
There's a greek lube joke in this somewhere... I'll get back to you.
 
2012-05-14 10:16:32 AM  

FeFiFoFark: globally, our leaders are failing us.


Altogether?
 
2012-05-14 10:18:36 AM  

dillengest: FeFiFoFark: globally, our leaders are failing us.

Altogether?


I would say yes.
 
2012-05-14 10:18:44 AM  

Kibbler: The real story here is that Greece is about one millimeter away from triggering conditions that could (no guarantee) lead to their exit from the euro. It depends on just how serious the German bankers are. Those bankers and some pundits like to say that the exposure from such an event has already been eliminated. Others aren't so sure, and even if Greece's exit did not directly trigger a catastrophe, what the bankers don't mention is that there are other eyes (Portugal, Ireland, Spain, maybe even Italy) intently watching the situation, and their voters are just about as angry as the Greeks.

The political situation in Greece is hopeless. The parties have splintered, and the one party that is saying "Hell no" to austerity is gaining support rapidly, especially at the expense of the grown-up parties saying, "We need to find a way out of the mess." So it's sort of their equivalent of the teabaggers, although in this case it's the far-left Syriza party. But the impulse is the same: "Hell no, just say no, no, no."

Not even the most stiffnecked German banker believes that any member apart from Greece can exit without a disaster. And if it's Spain, say good night. We'll look back at 2008 fondly as "The Psuedo-Meltdown Before the Real One."

/CSB


Came here to say this. IANAE, but I don't see how a populace that demands their government provide a standard of living while at the same time refusing to pay the taxes that allow it can go anywhere but down. The little tantrum that was sparked when the EU held them by their ankles over Lake Reality is nothing compared to what's going to happen when they eventually say "fark it" and let go. The time to kick Greece out of the Eurozone was three years ago when someone woke up and realized that their habit of pissing money away might may be have threatened the currency. Seems to me that loaning them money we all know they didn't have while trying to drag them into fiscal responsibility by punishing the people responsible and forcing them to do the two things they've proven unwilling to do at any cost (work and pay taxes) was doomed to fail from the start.

Oh, also, Spain? I'll put five bucks on Italy in the quinella.
 
2012-05-14 10:19:58 AM  

Fizpez: So the real question is how can I get filthy stinking rich off of this?

/kidding but only just barely


Well, in Texas, they pump the oil back into the ground in these salt caverns. Saved for a rainy day.
Start there and work your way up the oil chain.
 
2012-05-14 10:23:08 AM  

dillengest: FeFiFoFark: globally, our leaders are failing us.

Altogether?


Globally, our leaders are failing us
 
2012-05-14 10:25:57 AM  

FeFiFoFark: globally, our leaders are failing us.


Surely, you can't be serious.
 
2012-05-14 10:33:20 AM  
Why do we even care?


Oil reserves in U.S.
 
2012-05-14 10:33:33 AM  

SurfaceTension: dillengest: FeFiFoFark: globally, our leaders are failing us.

Altogether?

Globally, our leaders are failing us


Maybe we need more leading and less selling out.
/maybe
 
2012-05-14 10:34:24 AM  
a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net

B-b-b-b-b-ut ... OBAMA is to blame for high oil prices!
 
2012-05-14 10:38:29 AM  
Two simple facts that put MOST of the crappy explanations to the lie are:

The USA holds most of the oil in the world in house.
The USA exports more finished petrolium products than it consumes.
That means we import and refine oil as a profit maker, not a domestic asset.

/yea, drill baby drill
 
2012-05-14 10:38:44 AM  

SurfaceTension: dillengest: FeFiFoFark: globally, our leaders are failing us.

Altogether?

Globally, our leaders are failing us


Brilliant!
 
2012-05-14 10:42:32 AM  

seadoo2006: [a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net image 640x339]

B-b-b-b-b-ut ... OBAMA is to blame for high oil prices!


No I'm pretty sure this is still some how Bush's fault.
 
2012-05-14 10:48:23 AM  

genner: No I'm pretty sure this is still some how Bush's fault.


My money's on Bill Clinton
 
2012-05-14 10:56:24 AM  

SurfaceTension: genner: No I'm pretty sure this is still some how Bush's fault.

My money's on Bill Clinton


Nixon screwed everything up when he went to bed with China.
 
2012-05-14 10:57:32 AM  

dennysgod: RANT

What's asinine is that over the last few weeks oil as dropped $10 a barrel yet gas in my area as only gone down a f*cking penny. Yet oil goes up 50 cents and gas goes up 20 cents the next day.

/RANT


Always been my beef with it too. When oil goes up and gas goes up, that's supply and demand. When oil goes down and gas stays the same, that's supply and demand too! One man's market economy is another man's price gouging! Exxon Mobil's profit declined 11% in Q1 year over year to a mere $9.45 billion. They're hurting man, hurting.
 
2012-05-14 10:57:33 AM  

snocone: Two simple facts that put MOST of the crappy explanations to the lie are:

The USA holds most of the oil in the world in house.
The USA exports more finished petrolium products than it consumes.
That means we import and refine oil as a profit maker, not a domestic asset.

/yea, drill baby drill


Yeah, about that: Proved oil reserves by country, as at 2011
 
2012-05-14 11:02:11 AM  
The press has no farking clue what makes the market change, yet they report, daily, what caused the smallest fluctuation like some kind of psychic.
 
2012-05-14 11:02:44 AM  

Savage Bacon: snocone: Two simple facts that put MOST of the crappy explanations to the lie are:

The USA holds most of the oil in the world in house.
The USA exports more finished petrolium products than it consumes.
That means we import and refine oil as a profit maker, not a domestic asset.

/yea, drill baby drill

Yeah, about that: Proved oil reserves by country, as at 2011


CIA as information source?
Getoutahere.
/kidding, right?
 
2012-05-14 11:03:38 AM  

the_chief: The press has no farking clue what makes the market change, yet they report, daily, what caused the smallest fluctuation like some kind of psychic.


The press is an important pert of the con.
If they fail to keep the idiots invested, it all falls down.
 
2012-05-14 11:14:20 AM  

snocone: Savage Bacon: snocone: Two simple facts that put MOST of the crappy explanations to the lie are:

The USA holds most of the oil in the world in house.
The USA exports more finished petrolium products than it consumes.
That means we import and refine oil as a profit maker, not a domestic asset.

/yea, drill baby drill

Yeah, about that: Proved oil reserves by country, as at 2011

CIA as information source?
Getoutahere.
/kidding, right?


So, don't trust information from an intelligence organization from your own country? Ok, how about the U.S. Energy Information Administration?

If that's still not good enough, perhaps you'd like to enlighten me as to where you found information to back your "fact".
 
2012-05-14 11:15:17 AM  

Flakeloaf: Kibbler: The real story here is that Greece is about one millimeter away from triggering conditions that could (no guarantee) lead to their exit from the euro. It depends on just how serious the German bankers are. Those bankers and some pundits like to say that the exposure from such an event has already been eliminated. Others aren't so sure, and even if Greece's exit did not directly trigger a catastrophe, what the bankers don't mention is that there are other eyes (Portugal, Ireland, Spain, maybe even Italy) intently watching the situation, and their voters are just about as angry as the Greeks.

The political situation in Greece is hopeless. The parties have splintered, and the one party that is saying "Hell no" to austerity is gaining support rapidly, especially at the expense of the grown-up parties saying, "We need to find a way out of the mess." So it's sort of their equivalent of the teabaggers, although in this case it's the far-left Syriza party. But the impulse is the same: "Hell no, just say no, no, no."

Not even the most stiffnecked German banker believes that any member apart from Greece can exit without a disaster. And if it's Spain, say good night. We'll look back at 2008 fondly as "The Psuedo-Meltdown Before the Real One."

/CSB

Came here to say this. IANAE, but I don't see how a populace that demands their government provide a standard of living while at the same time refusing to pay the taxes that allow it can go anywhere but down. The little tantrum that was sparked when the EU held them by their ankles over Lake Reality is nothing compared to what's going to happen when they eventually say "fark it" and let go. The time to kick Greece out of the Eurozone was three years ago when someone woke up and realized that their habit of pissing money away might may be have threatened the currency. Seems to me that loaning them money we all know they didn't have while trying to drag them into fiscal responsibility by punishing the people responsible an ...


Greece sounds like a nation made completely of Baby-boomers. Its all fark you, I got mine and I don't care what happens to anyone else.
 
2012-05-14 11:21:49 AM  

Savage Bacon: snocone: Savage Bacon: snocone: Two simple facts that put MOST of the crappy explanations to the lie are:

The USA holds most of the oil in the world in house.
The USA exports more finished petrolium products than it consumes.
That means we import and refine oil as a profit maker, not a domestic asset.

/yea, drill baby drill

Yeah, about that: Proved oil reserves by country, as at 2011

CIA as information source?
Getoutahere.
/kidding, right?

So, don't trust information from an intelligence organization from your own country? Ok, how about the U.S. Energy Information Administration?

If that's still not good enough, perhaps you'd like to enlighten me as to where you found information to back your "fact".


For the reading impaired that cannot find citation from 5 or 6 posts up above, http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gao-recoverable-oil-colorado-utah-wyom ing-about-equal-entire-world-s-proven-oil.

Now start your peer reviewed, consensual derp bullchit.
I do not beleive the CIA. Correctamundo in spades!

/there is no way to tell. It is all bullchit and it is bad for you.
 
2012-05-14 11:23:19 AM  

spentmiles: The global financial crisis approaches, riding the bold horse of World War 3. The Greeks will vote down the austerity measures and Germany will pull their funds out of the country. Rome will burn as trash piles up in the suburbs. The collapse will reverberate throughout the European Union as country after country falls into ruin. Then, when we can't imagine it getting any worse, Israel strikes Iran's nuclear development facilities, releasing a cloud of radiation that mutates men into beasts. Russia doesn't flinch as Putin smashes the button for an all out nuclear assault on the approaching hordes of starving, maddened Chinese who have begun rushing into the country in search of medical treatment and basic supplies. At this point, the United States closes down its ports and borders. No one knows when, but every one knows that a nuclear strike is coming. Neighbors live in fear of one another, shooting each other in the dark hallways of their own homes. We're staring a nightmare in the face, and it's so terrifying, we don't even recognize it.


But can the falcon still hear the falconer?
 
2012-05-14 11:29:53 AM  
I really should not need citation to state that if the CIA tells you something, bet the other way.
 
2012-05-14 11:30:12 AM  

Flakeloaf: Came here to say this. IANAE, but I don't see how a populace that demands their government provide a standard of living while at the same time refusing to pay the taxes that allow it can go anywhere but down. The little tantrum that was sparked when the EU held them by their ankles over Lake Reality is nothing compared to what's going to happen when they eventually say "fark it" and let go. The time to kick Greece out of the Eurozone was three years ago when someone woke up and realized that their habit of pissing money away might may be have threatened the currency. Seems to me that loaning them money we all know they didn't have while trying to drag them into fiscal responsibility by punishing the people responsible and forcing them to do the two things they've proven unwilling to do at any cost (work and pay taxes) was doomed to fail from the start.

Oh, also, Spain? I'll put five bucks on Italy in the quinella.


Greece is a shiathole of corruption, but Spain is a completely different case. Its deficit-to-GDP ratio was better than Germany until the Wall Street collapse. Germany has forced austerity on all the Eurozone and places like Spain and Italy and Ireland cannot possibly dig out of the hole.
 
2012-05-14 11:38:34 AM  

snocone: Savage Bacon: snocone: Savage Bacon: snocone: Two simple facts that put MOST of the crappy explanations to the lie are:

The USA holds most of the oil in the world in house.
The USA exports more finished petrolium products than it consumes.
That means we import and refine oil as a profit maker, not a domestic asset.

/yea, drill baby drill

Yeah, about that: Proved oil reserves by country, as at 2011

CIA as information source?
Getoutahere.
/kidding, right?

So, don't trust information from an intelligence organization from your own country? Ok, how about the U.S. Energy Information Administration?

If that's still not good enough, perhaps you'd like to enlighten me as to where you found information to back your "fact".

For the reading impaired that cannot find citation from 5 or 6 posts up above, http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gao-recoverable-oil-colorado-utah-wyom ing-about-equal-entire-world-s-proven-oil.

Now start your peer reviewed, consensual derp bullchit.
I do not beleive the CIA. Correctamundo in spades!

/there is no way to tell. It is all bullchit and it is bad for you.


Yeah, I saw that article, which "estimates" quite liberally and mentions that most of that oil would be difficult if not impossible to extract without the proper technology, which could have a negative impact on communities and the environment:

FTA: It also noted that developing the oil would have an environmental impact and pose "socioeconomic challenges," that included bringing "a sizable influx of workers who along with their families put additional stress on local infrastructure" and "making planning for growth difficult for local governments."

Furthermore, you point my to this news article after a subsequent post in which you state that the media is "part of the con". Is it only part of the con when it claims something you don't like? You seem big on keeping all your own resources in-house and all that, which is great, yet don't trust your own government to tell it like it is. But you'll trust a random news article, though...

Guess we'll just agree to disagree, then.
 
2012-05-14 11:47:04 AM  
This is just the beginning... prices will continue to drop until early November.

/lock it
 
2012-05-14 11:48:31 AM  

StrongDad: This is just the beginning... prices will continue to drop until early November.

/lock it


The Sudan will need to calm down a little more and you may be correct.
 
2012-05-14 11:49:05 AM  

Savage Bacon: snocone: Savage Bacon: snocone: Savage Bacon: snocone: Two simple facts that put MOST of the crappy explanations to the lie are:

The USA holds most of the oil in the world in house.
The USA exports more finished petrolium products than it consumes.
That means we import and refine oil as a profit maker, not a domestic asset.

/yea, drill baby drill

Yeah, about that: Proved oil reserves by country, as at 2011

CIA as information source?
Getoutahere.
/kidding, right?

So, don't trust information from an intelligence organization from your own country? Ok, how about the U.S. Energy Information Administration?

If that's still not good enough, perhaps you'd like to enlighten me as to where you found information to back your "fact".

For the reading impaired that cannot find citation from 5 or 6 posts up above, http://cnsnews.com/news/article/gao-recoverable-oil-colorado-utah-wyom ing-about-equal-entire-world-s-proven-oil.

Now start your peer reviewed, consensual derp bullchit.
I do not beleive the CIA. Correctamundo in spades!

/there is no way to tell. It is all bullchit and it is bad for you.

Yeah, I saw that article, which "estimates" quite liberally and mentions that most of that oil would be difficult if not impossible to extract without the proper technology, which could have a negative impact on communities and the environment:

FTA: It also noted that developing the oil would have an environmental impact and pose "socioeconomic challenges," that included bringing "a sizable influx of workers who along with their families put additional stress on local infrastructure" and "making planning for growth difficult for local governments."

Furthermore, you point my to this news article after a subsequent post in which you state that the media is "part of the con". Is it only part of the con when it claims something you don't like? You seem big on keeping all your own resources in-house and all that, which is great, yet don't trust your own government to tell it lik ...


Missed it by that much.
Point is there is an information and a disinformation sourse for anything of merit.
Chances of the general public getting any useful information is slim to none.

But since I have been watching this charade for 65 years now, I am a wee bit pissed.
I remember, and the lies just get rerun on an ever shortening cycle.
Should be short enough cycle for even an Idol memory span shortly.
 
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