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(MSNBC)   Study suggests that if you identify with a fictional character, you may become more like them. However, it doesn't seem to work for all those people who read about Jesus   (bodyodd.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 194
    More: Interesting, Journal of Personality, Linda Carroll, Dartmouth College, Atticus Finch, social psychologies  
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4585 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 May 2012 at 8:17 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-14 08:54:47 AM  
Hmmmm Fictional Characters I like....

Matrim Cauthon (sp?)
Death (the one with the horse named Binky)
Batman

/athiest
 
2012-05-14 08:55:18 AM  

Parthenogenetic: simplicimus: I'll go with Dexter: motivated, methodical, cool under pressure, able to adapt to changing circumstances.

...except when your sister invades the lab?

[www.all-hd-wallpapers.com image 320x220]


Heh. Haven't seen her around lately.
 
2012-05-14 08:57:15 AM  

Raharu: simplicimus: I'll go with Dexter: motivated, methodical, cool under pressure, able to adapt to changing circumstances.

I enjoy Dexter too, however the books are an abortion. Im really happy that showtime moved away from the books as source material. So So happy.

The books go into a weird supernatural angle where dexters dark passenger is some kind of demon wanabe. Thee cliche good vs evil black and white battle crap... its pretty horrible.


I read the books as well and I agree with your assessment.
 
2012-05-14 08:57:16 AM  
Jesus is not a fictional character, dude.
 
2012-05-14 08:57:22 AM  

SharkTrager: Which Jesus are we talking about?

Is it cute little Baby Jesus?

Angry in the Temple Jesus?

Emo Garden of Gethsemane Jesus?

Disappointed Good Friday Jesus?

Pissed of Revelations Jesus?

In all seriousness, they don't emulate Jesus because, when you get down to it, most of what is in the Bible is pure Paul. And Paul was kind of a dick.


8 lb. 6 oz. baby Jesus in his golden nappies.
 
2012-05-14 08:59:18 AM  
Holy shiat, people actually believe there's proof that Jesus existed?
 
2012-05-14 09:00:12 AM  
"The Church says that the Earth is flat, but I know that it is round. For I have seen the shadow on the moon and I have more faith in the Shadow than in the Church."
 
2012-05-14 09:02:08 AM  

StingerJ: Holy shiat, people actually believe there's proof that Jesus existed?


"STOP BELIEVING IN SOMETHING I DON'T!!!"

/Pretty much covers most Fark atheist statements
 
2012-05-14 09:02:11 AM  

Raharu: Oh man, done even before one.

So Im going to end up as a mix between Harry Dresden, Sam Vimes, and Gord the Rogue?


Im strangely ok with this.


Sure, as long as I get to be Philip Marlowe.

"Down these mean streets a man must go who is not himself mean, who is neither tarnished nor afraid. ... a complete man and a common man and yet an unusual man. He must be, to use a rather weathered phrase, a man of honor - by instinct, by inevitability, without thought of it, and certainly without saying it. He must be the best man in his world and a good enough man for any world. He talks as the man of his age talks, that is, with rude wit, a lively sense of the grotesque, a disgust for sham, and a contempt for pettiness. "

eh, maybe on a really good day.
 
2012-05-14 09:04:18 AM  

Lordserb: Animatronik: That's because Jesus wasnt a fictional character subby

This. My goodness just because you don't believe that Jesus is God doesn't mean there isn't a ton of evidence indicated that he did indeed live...


just as much evidence for Bigfoot.
 
2012-05-14 09:06:41 AM  

gadian: Mrs.Sharpier: Animatronik: That's because Jesus wasnt a fictional character subby

Is there proof that he existed?

I seem to recall a Penn & Teller Bullshiat segment where they had to concede that due to Roman records of the crucifixion, there probably was a real Jesus (not that his name was Jesus). Not exactly historical documentation there, but a place to look for sources.


So, the evidence for the existence of Jesus is that some guy NOT named Jesus was crucified? Gotcha.

\I suppose that makes about as much sense as anything the fundies are saying...
 
2012-05-14 09:06:50 AM  

inflatedKarma: Lordserb: Animatronik: That's because Jesus wasnt a fictional character subby

This. My goodness just because you don't believe that Jesus is God doesn't mean there isn't a ton of evidence indicated that he did indeed live...

just as much evidence for Bigfoot.


I've never read much into it. Why are the writings of Tacitus, Pliny the Younger and Suetonius not considered compelling evidence some guy named jesus lived?
 
2012-05-14 09:07:03 AM  

NumberFiveIsAlive: StingerJ: Holy shiat, people actually believe there's proof that Jesus existed?

"STOP BELIEVING IN SOMETHING I DON'T!!!"

/Pretty much covers most Fark atheist statements


You are entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts.
 
2012-05-14 09:07:04 AM  
So I'm a mix of Lao Tzu and Louie De Palma, with a hint of Charlie Eppes. Got it.
 
2012-05-14 09:07:05 AM  

soakitincider: Jesus is not a fictional character, dude.


There are a lot of gardeners named Jesus ... show a little love for well groomed yards!!
 
2012-05-14 09:07:55 AM  

SharkTrager: Which Jesus are we talking about?

Is it cute little Baby Jesus?

Angry in the Temple Jesus?

Emo Garden of Gethsemane Jesus?

Disappointed Good Friday Jesus?

Pissed of Revelations Jesus?

In all seriousness, they don't emulate Jesus because, when you get down to it, most of what is in the Bible is pure Paul. And Paul was kind of a dick.


GI Jesus with kung-fu grip.
 
2012-05-14 09:09:39 AM  
richardkadrey.com

/brb, killing demons and whatnot.
 
2012-05-14 09:12:38 AM  
The headline is not accurate. I have observed that identification with "Supply-Side" Jesus frequently results in a corresponding alteration of behaviour.
 
2012-05-14 09:13:18 AM  

CheekyMonkey: So, the evidence for the existence of Jesus is that some guy NOT named Jesus was crucified? Gotcha.

\I suppose that makes about as much sense as anything the fundies are saying...


Well, the historical jewish dude that we call Jesus wasn't really named Jesus. It was something like yeshu'a which somehow became Jesus. Don't ask me, I'm not a linguist.
 
2012-05-14 09:13:20 AM  

CheekyMonkey: gadian: Mrs.Sharpier: Animatronik: That's because Jesus wasnt a fictional character subby

Is there proof that he existed?

I seem to recall a Penn & Teller Bullshiat segment where they had to concede that due to Roman records of the crucifixion, there probably was a real Jesus (not that his name was Jesus). Not exactly historical documentation there, but a place to look for sources.

So, the evidence for the existence of Jesus is that some guy NOT named Jesus was crucified? Gotcha.

\I suppose that makes about as much sense as anything the fundies are saying...


There were actually 6000 Jesuses (Jesi?), but the Bible was off by 100 years.
 
2012-05-14 09:14:48 AM  

CheekyMonkey: gadian: Mrs.Sharpier: Animatronik: That's because Jesus wasnt a fictional character subby

Is there proof that he existed?

I seem to recall a Penn & Teller Bullshiat segment where they had to concede that due to Roman records of the crucifixion, there probably was a real Jesus (not that his name was Jesus). Not exactly historical documentation there, but a place to look for sources.

So, the evidence for the existence of Jesus is that some guy NOT named Jesus was crucified? Gotcha.

\I suppose that makes about as much sense as anything the fundies are saying...


"A number of historical non-Christian documents, such as Jewish and Greco-Roman sources, have been used in historical analyses of the existence of Jesus.[363] Most critical historians agree that Jesus existed and regard events such as his baptism and his crucifixion as historical.[21][366][367][368]

Robert E. Van Voorst states that the idea of the non-historicity of the existence of Jesus has always been controversial, and has consistently failed to convince scholars of many disciplines, and that classical historians, as well as biblical scholars now regard it as effectively refuted.[22] Walter P. Weaver, among others, states that the denial of Jesus' existence has never convinced any large number of people, in or out of technical circles.[21][368][369]

Separate non-Christian sources used to establish the historical existence of Jesus include the works of 1st century Roman historians Josephus and Tacitus.[363][370] Josephus scholar Louis H. Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in Antiquities 20, 9, 1 and it is only disputed by a small number of scholars.[364][371][372][373] Bart D. Ehrman states that the existence of Jesus and his crucifixion by the Romans is attested to by a wide range of sources, including Josephus and Tacitus.[374]

The historical existence of Jesus as a person is a separate issue from any religious discussions about his divinity, or the theological issues relating to his nature as man or God.[375] Leading scientific atheist Richard Dawkins specifically separates the question of the existence of Jesus from the attribution of supernatural powers to him, or the accuracy of the Christian gospels.[376] Dawkins does not deny the existence of Jesus, although he dismisses the reliability of the gospel accounts.[376] This position is also held by leading critic G. A. Wells, who used to argue that Jesus never existed, but has since changed his views and no longer rejects it.[377]

In antiquity, the existence of Jesus was never denied by those who opposed Christianity.[138] While theological differences existed among early Christians regarding the nature of Jesus (e.g. monophysitism, miaphysitism, Docetism, Nestorianism, etc.) these were debates in Christian theology, not about the historical existence of Jesus.[378][379] Although a very small number of modern scholars argue that Jesus never existed, that view is a distinct minority and most scholars consider theories that Jesus' existence was a Christian invention as implausible."

Link
 
2012-05-14 09:17:02 AM  

Carth: inflatedKarma: Lordserb: Animatronik: That's because Jesus wasnt a fictional character subby

This. My goodness just because you don't believe that Jesus is God doesn't mean there isn't a ton of evidence indicated that he did indeed live...

just as much evidence for Bigfoot.

I've never read much into it. Why are the writings of Tacitus, Pliny the Younger and Suetonius not considered compelling evidence some guy named jesus lived?


Im gona go with, and this is if I recall correctly, that all the people that you listed were born years after christ supposedly rose from the dead.
 
2012-05-14 09:18:01 AM  

inflatedKarma: Lordserb: Animatronik: That's because Jesus wasnt a fictional character subby

This. My goodness just because you don't believe that Jesus is God doesn't mean there isn't a ton of evidence indicated that he did indeed live...

just as much evidence for Bigfoot.


Actually, there's more evidence for Bigfoot. Footprints, pictures, recordings, etc. To me it doesn't really matter what other believe about the J-Dude's existence or lack thereof so long as they leave others be about it and do not try to use their faith as an excuse to impact others in a negative manner or infringe on their human rights. I admit I take issue when someone says "he died for your sins". I have no concept of "sin", only honorable and dishonorable behaviors, so I do not need a human sacrifice to atone for something that does not exist. Furthermore, I take full responsibility for all that I do, both good and bad, so I do not need to either apologize or give credit to a third party, be they deity, demi-god, an amalgamation of other, older deities and/or prophets or hippy dippy vagrant that had some good ideas.

I really despise dogmatic systems as I feel they stifle spiritual growth. If they're too afraid that their loving deity will torture them for eternity to even study another spiritual-type book and find their own unique path through lifelong study of many faiths and philosophies there is obviously something very wrong there. That's not "love", that's spiritual, intellectual and emotional abuse.
 
2012-05-14 09:19:36 AM  
touche submitter
 
2012-05-14 09:19:55 AM  

Raharu: Carth: inflatedKarma: Lordserb: Animatronik: That's because Jesus wasnt a fictional character subby

This. My goodness just because you don't believe that Jesus is God doesn't mean there isn't a ton of evidence indicated that he did indeed live...

just as much evidence for Bigfoot.

I've never read much into it. Why are the writings of Tacitus, Pliny the Younger and Suetonius not considered compelling evidence some guy named jesus lived?

Im gona go with, and this is if I recall correctly, that all the people that you listed were born years after christ supposedly rose from the dead.


David Mccullough lived a few hundred years after a lot of the events he writes about if the authors were good historians the fact they lived after the events shouldn't matter too much.

Like I said I'm just going by about 10 minutes of reading Wikipedia so I have no real background. I figured if the evidence Jesus existed was enough to convince Richard Dawkins it must be decent.
 
2012-05-14 09:20:38 AM  
Lies.

If there was even the slightest bit of truth to this, I would have been a jedi decades ago.
 
2012-05-14 09:21:33 AM  

JRoo: In antiquity, the existence of Jesus was never denied by those who opposed Christianity.


Of course not. The Romans were somewhat conservative, but they still granted the possibility that other gods outside of the Greco-Roman pantheon existed. Either they just had no interest in those gods (since the Romans had their own), or they considered them to be foreign versions of their gods.
 
2012-05-14 09:24:02 AM  

imontheinternet: Lies.

If there was even the slightest bit of truth to this, I would have been a jedi decades ago.


Do not despair! You can still be a Jedi!
 
2012-05-14 09:24:03 AM  

Wade_Wilson: Article warns of people identifying with Patrick Bateman. Really? That book was pretty obviously satirical. "Likable and charismatic"? He was a parody of shallow jerkass 80s guys. Anyone who sympathized with him was probably pretty screwed up to begin with.

Then again, an entire generation of businessmen seems to have grown up under the impression that Gordon Gecko is a role model, so maybe I have too much faith in humanity.


His only regret was that he had boneitis.

/Jesus probably existed subby, so get off your troll horse
 
2012-05-14 09:25:02 AM  

Critch:
Citation Requested.

There's a shiatload of evidence that a man named Jesus was around and pissed off the ruling parties of the day, and got crucified.


No there isn't. There is very little evidence and none of it is conclusive.
 
2012-05-14 09:26:24 AM  

JRoo: CheekyMonkey: gadian: Mrs.Sharpier: Animatronik: That's because Jesus wasnt a fictional character subby

Is there proof that he existed?

I seem to recall a Penn & Teller Bullshiat segment where they had to concede that due to Roman records of the crucifixion, there probably was a real Jesus (not that his name was Jesus). Not exactly historical documentation there, but a place to look for sources.

So, the evidence for the existence of Jesus is that some guy NOT named Jesus was crucified? Gotcha.

\I suppose that makes about as much sense as anything the fundies are saying...

"A number of historical non-Christian documents, such as Jewish and Greco-Roman sources, have been used in historical analyses of the existence of Jesus.[363] Most critical historians agree that Jesus existed and regard events such as his baptism and his crucifixion as historical.[21][366][367][368]

Robert E. Van Voorst states that the idea of the non-historicity of the existence of Jesus has always been controversial, and has consistently failed to convince scholars of many disciplines, and that classical historians, as well as biblical scholars now regard it as effectively refuted.[22] Walter P. Weaver, among others, states that the denial of Jesus' existence has never convinced any large number of people, in or out of technical circles.[21][368][369]

Separate non-Christian sources used to establish the historical existence of Jesus include the works of 1st century Roman historians Josephus and Tacitus.[363][370] Josephus scholar Louis H. Feldman has stated that "few have doubted the genuineness" of Josephus' reference to Jesus in Antiquities 20, 9, 1 and it is only disputed by a small number of scholars.[364][371][372][373] Bart D. Ehrman states that the existence of Jesus and his crucifixion by the Romans is attested to by a wide range of sources, including Josephus and Tacitus.[374]

The historical existence of Jesus as a person is a separate issue from any religious discussions about ...


Thanks for the info. My post was just a throwaway one-liner. I don't actually dispute the existence of Historical Jesus (TM). After all, you can't have a cult without a cult leader.
 
2012-05-14 09:30:30 AM  

MAYORBOB: Jesus is not fictional!

Jesus is not fictional!!

Jesus is not fictional!!!

Jesus is not fictional!!!!

JESUS IS NOT FICTIONAL!!!!!

He died for our sins and will return to kick ass and take names later.


LOL, you still believe in that? does the easter bunny come to your house too?
 
2012-05-14 09:33:01 AM  
Become more like the characters I love? Well- I'll get to work on building my arc-reactor, armored suit and begin hunting U-boats in the Florida Keys ASAP.
 
2012-05-14 09:37:03 AM  

rebelyell2006: MAYORBOB: Jesus is not fictional!

Nor is Zeus, Odin, Xenu, Christian God, Jewish God, etc etc


Wroooong! Only one of the above can be non-fictional at any time.

Choose wisely.
 
2012-05-14 09:37:41 AM  

Raharu: NumberFiveIsAlive: StingerJ: Holy shiat, people actually believe there's proof that Jesus existed?

"STOP BELIEVING IN SOMETHING I DON'T!!!"

/Pretty much covers most Fark atheist statements

You are entitled to your own opinion, just not your own facts.


Historical accounts and stories are open to interpretation. You choose not to believe them. Others choose to believe them. If I believe in something you don't, I'm won't sit here and try to convert you. But keep trying to convince me that I'm wrong and you're right. It's like arguing with my 11 year old about his homework. His teacher tells me she signed a note he was supposed to bring home and show me, but he says he wasn't given any note. I can either believe him, or his teacher...

/Sadly, I believe his teacher
 
2012-05-14 09:38:22 AM  
That's because their lips move when they read.
 
2012-05-14 09:40:11 AM  

NumberFiveIsAlive: StingerJ: Holy shiat, people actually believe there's proof that Jesus existed?

"STOP BELIEVING IN SOMETHING I DON'T!!!"

/Pretty much covers most Fark atheist statements


I think you misread my post. I did not say, "Holy shiat, people actually believe in Jesus?" Feel free to reply with a more rational post.
 
2012-05-14 09:46:32 AM  
BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!! SKULLS FOR THE THRONE!!

images.wikia.com
 
2012-05-14 09:51:27 AM  

traylor: rebelyell2006: MAYORBOB: Jesus is not fictional!

Nor is Zeus, Odin, Xenu, Christian God, Jewish God, etc etc

Wroooong! Only one of the above can be non-fictional at any time.

Choose wisely.


You are obviously unfamiliar with the concept of Polytheism (either soft or hard polytheism) and consider a deity, whether it actually exists or not, that was allegedly smart enough to create everything, everywhere to be too incredibly stupid to manifest to different cultures in a manner they can relate to, embrace and understand. Especially if it wants every culture to acknowledge, honor or worship it. Why would anyone honor something so stupid, let alone worship it? No thanks. I'll stick to my agnostic polytheism. At least then I'm not offending any potential divine by calling it a complete idiot.
 
2012-05-14 09:53:58 AM  
That's cuz Jesus was never cast as a first person shooter.
 
2012-05-14 09:54:48 AM  
You know what... You can't argue with atheist homosexual racist liberals. All they want to do is scream in your face that youre wrong regardless of whether or not they're right or if anyone is listening. You're automatically racist/republican/Christian/slave owner/etc times infinity. It's okay. There's no reasoning with sociopaths. You just let them talk until their head explodes.
 
2012-05-14 09:55:00 AM  

NumberFiveIsAlive: If I believe in something you don't, I'm won't sit here and try to convert you.


I've had conversions tried on me in the past. I've had to tell missionaries to leave me and my family alone. I've been told that I will burn in eternal fire, and that people will pray for me. It seems odd that any religious person can complain about atheists attempting to 'convert' anyone. I've never had an atheist knock on my door to 'spread the good silence' or whatever. I've never heard an atheist promise eternal pain and torment as a result of believing.
 
2012-05-14 09:58:07 AM  
All this Jesus-related stuff aside, I actually think TFA is onto something. We all know how Groupthink works, so it's not hard to believe that a version of it can happen between a person and fictional characters. Watching/reading/playing/etc a character with similar views as yours will likely reinforce those emotions in you. Seeing these characters succeed will validate your views. You're also more likely to go from a moderate to an extremist too.

This is why people call characters "inspiring" - they show us an idealized and successful version of who we are and/or want to be. It's only natural that we would then want to emulate them.

Art imitates life.
And life imitates art.
 
2012-05-14 10:01:02 AM  

StingerJ: NumberFiveIsAlive: StingerJ: Holy shiat, people actually believe there's proof that Jesus existed?

"STOP BELIEVING IN SOMETHING I DON'T!!!"

/Pretty much covers most Fark atheist statements

I think you misread my post. I did not say, "Holy shiat, people actually believe in Jesus?" Feel free to reply with a more rational post.


Again, proof is an opinion. Generally speaking, to prove a historical figure actually existed, there should be evidence such as stories, paintings, or oral histories, backed up by archaeological evidence. Granted, there is little archaeological evidence (if any) that can be attributed to Jesus, but I would like to know how many people below royalty from 2000+ years ago leave stuff behind that we can attribute to them personally. So the proof (evidence) is left to the oral and written histories. It is up to the reader to interpret the stories for themselves... I'm pretty sure this is called "Belief". Many of these beliefs are now known as "religion".

Please provide a counter argument to anything I've stated. I'm interested in debates on religion if they're actually arguing context, but "LOLRELGIONUFAILROFLMAO" crap gets old pretty quickly.

/Leave religion to the individual
//Stop trying to force others to live by your beliefs/lack there-of
///Yes, this includes getting the religious nut jobs out of political office
 
2012-05-14 10:02:29 AM  

MAYORBOB: Jesus is not fictional!

Jesus is not fictional!!

Jesus is not fictional!!!

Jesus is not fictional!!!!

JESUS IS NOT FICTIONAL!!!!!

He died for our sins and will return to kick ass and take names later.


He loves you THISS... (stretches arms out) ... MUCH
 
2012-05-14 10:04:51 AM  
So I get a giant, flying robot? Cool! But could I skip the smashing up cities and burned beyond recognition part? I really like architecture and being able to feel my face.
img801.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-14 10:05:47 AM  
Actually, I thought the headline was a pretty tired old troll, and made me sad for Fark...

Ah well. Someone's day was brightened by it, so yay subby!
 
2012-05-14 10:06:23 AM  

ComaToast: Hey! I tried walking on water and healing the lepers, but all i got was wet and now my fingers are falling off!


If you read that article about the girl who fell into a river and has lost one leg and is now going to lose her fingers from flesh-eating bacteria, you'll see you don't need lepers to accomplish both
 
2012-05-14 10:06:46 AM  

Egoy3k: NumberFiveIsAlive: If I believe in something you don't, I'm won't sit here and try to convert you.

I've had conversions tried on me in the past. I've had to tell missionaries to leave me and my family alone. I've been told that I will burn in eternal fire, and that people will pray for me. It seems odd that any religious person can complain about atheists attempting to 'convert' anyone. I've never had an atheist knock on my door to 'spread the good silence' or whatever. I've never heard an atheist promise eternal pain and torment as a result of believing.


So....because some overzealous christian tried to convert you that means ALL christians must be trying to convert you?

I've had plenty of people try to tell me God/Jesus doesn't exist too. I don't assume all atheists will try to do so either. I'm actually good friends with an atheist. Our religious discussions are mostly philosophical, and we don't try to convert each other.

/Still like reading Warcraft lore even though the game has sucked for a while
 
2012-05-14 10:07:23 AM  
Best. Headline. In. Awhile. +10 subby.
 
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