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(Psychology Today)   The Hostile: Telltale signs: High, sometimes explosive, reactivity. Frequently disagreeable. Cynical. Mistrustful. Does not like to be wrong. Where you'll find them: Corner offices, the Internet   (psychologytoday.com) divider line 80
    More: Amusing, corner offices, Hothouse at Home  
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5968 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 May 2012 at 9:14 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-13 09:19:55 AM
Someone likes colons and periods. Must be a woman subby.
 
2012-05-13 09:20:52 AM
Someone's been hanging out in the politics tab...
 
2012-05-13 09:22:30 AM
Hey. I don't have a corner office.
 
2012-05-13 09:24:08 AM
There's a guy at work. If you don't agree with him, he repeats himself. Further disagreement is accompanied with increased volume to the point of yelling. We don't work with him, we work around him. It's easier to pacify him and do whatever he wants than it is to do anything else.
 
2012-05-13 09:24:42 AM
Way:to;use!punctuation?Subby#
 
2012-05-13 09:30:55 AM
'Can't you just move on and give me my prescription?'

"No. I wont be writing you a refill and I'll thank you to take your business elsewhere."

Problem solved.
 
2012-05-13 09:31:33 AM
sssshhh..she's sleeping right next to me

/it is Sunday
 
2012-05-13 09:32:34 AM
You know how you deal with these kinds of people? You ignore them completely and say and do whatever you want to anyway. But in your normal tone of voice. They'll start yelling louder and will start looking insane.. at which point you can justify your behaviour by saying: "see what I mean? That person was clearly insane!"
 
2012-05-13 09:32:35 AM
FTA: Their MO is to provoke, then make you feel you have no reason to react-and it's all your fault to begin with! Feeling deeply discounted, even totally powerless, while having to jettison the original aim of an interaction is a distressing double whammy of social life-and a cardinal sign you're dealing with a difficult person. No, it's not you. It's them. And it's the emotional equivalent of being mowed down by a hit-and-run driver.

This is one of the tell-tale signs you're dealing with someone who has narcissistic personality disorder. They invalidate your perceptions and your feelings and often try to pretend you're misremembering or making things up (called "gaslighting"). Here's some better advice, especially for men who may be in an abusive relationship.
 
2012-05-13 09:36:21 AM
Self-identifying MRAs are my favorite MRAs.
 
2012-05-13 09:37:46 AM
People suck. Get over it, or get 20 cats already.
 
2012-05-13 09:38:57 AM
FTA"You may not demean me in front of my staff or others"-and instruct the bully, succinctly, on how you wish to be treated. "I need you to support me in the presence of others. Any issues you have with my work we can discuss civilly in private."

Possible things you will get out of this when giving this bit to your boss, if he's one of those people.

"You need me to do nothing. You need to get back to work."
"May not? You may not tell me what to do."
"You can always work somewhere else."
 
2012-05-13 09:39:06 AM

Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: Self-identifying MRAs are my favorite MRAs.


What the fark are you talking about?
 
2012-05-13 09:41:12 AM
Headline: Sucks: Ass.
 
2012-05-13 09:42:10 AM
Where can I get some of those tiny women in a jar?

/ Half a dozen oughta' be enough.
 
2012-05-13 09:42:24 AM
My mom used to say that you know you're dealing with a passive-aggressive individual when you constantly find yourself fighting down the urge to choke the living shiat out of someone...but you can't say exactly why. So that's my rule of thumb.
 
2012-05-13 09:42:28 AM

Honest Bender: 'Can't you just move on and give me my prescription?'

"No. I wont be writing you a refill and I'll thank you to take your business elsewhere."

Problem solved.


Bingo.
 
2012-05-13 09:43:28 AM
fragMasterFlash: People suck.

Nuff said.
 
2012-05-13 09:44:46 AM
more like refuses to be wrong
 
2012-05-13 09:45:36 AM
cookiefleckYou know how you deal with these kinds of people? You ignore them completely and say and do whatever you want to anyway. But in your normal tone of voice. They'll start yelling louder and will start looking insane.. at which point you can justify your behaviour by saying: "see what I mean? That person was clearly insane!"

Exactly my method. Also, I'm in a business where I can pick and choose what I want to do, whom I want to deal with. I can blow anyone off if I want. My BP is just fine.
 
2012-05-13 09:48:29 AM

Honest Bender: 'Can't you just move on and give me my prescription?'

"No. I wont be writing you a refill and I'll thank you to take your business elsewhere."

Problem solved.


Ok then, I'm suing you for discrimination and humiliation. $10 million, or I'll settle for $500,000.
 
2012-05-13 09:53:44 AM

Lost Thought 00: Honest Bender: 'Can't you just move on and give me my prescription?'

"No. I wont be writing you a refill and I'll thank you to take your business elsewhere."

Problem solved.

Ok then, I'm suing you for discrimination and humiliation. $10 million, or I'll settle for $500,000.



That's where you point to the sign that reads " we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone" that you stole from the gas station
 
2012-05-13 09:55:39 AM
Well, it was fine, I guess, for him to stick labels in the article on different kinds of difficult people and suggest ways of dealing with them, but it would have been more honest and more effective to just go ahead and admit that many of the difficult people "types" closely resembled diagnostic profiles in the DSM IV and other diagnostic terms.

So in addition to his suggestions, you can get more and better information on dealing with "hostile" types by looking up information on how to deal with people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Sociopaths (as described by Hare and Stout, distinct from APD in DSM IV) --- "Hostile" seems to bridge both a bit.

His "Rejection Sensitive" people are pretty much a textbook description of Borderline Personality Disorder.

His "Neurotic" people would be folks with depression or anxiety-based problems.

His Egoists would be Narcissists or people with OCPD.

(I don't think he's really classified the Histrionics anywhere, or not very well.)

Anyway, the reason it would be useful to have diagnostic match-ups is because there's a lot of literature out there on managing, coping with, or dealing with people who have those various problems.

Although, with sociopaths and most of the time with narcissists, the best coping strategy is usually the Miyagi defense of "no be there." Leave.
 
2012-05-13 10:00:55 AM

Lost Thought 00: Honest Bender: 'Can't you just move on and give me my prescription?'

"No. I wont be writing you a refill and I'll thank you to take your business elsewhere."

Problem solved.

Ok then, I'm suing you for discrimination and humiliation. $10 million, or I'll settle for $500,000.


No, it's easier. A physician has the legal right to choose his patients. You write her the refill, and then the next day you have your office assistant send her a letter discharging her from your practice. Over and done. She's no longer your patient.
 
2012-05-13 10:03:57 AM
In a way, the fact they feel the need to behave this way is histrionic, they've learned " if i do this.. I get that" like "if I "a", then "b" happens"
 
2012-05-13 10:05:36 AM
For me it was Highschool and I would, but my wife would be pissed.
 
2012-05-13 10:06:10 AM

Julie Cochrane: Although, with sociopaths and most of the time with narcissists, the best coping strategy is usually the Miyagi defense of "no be there." Leave.


I believe very strongly in getting yourself away from difficult people, and giving them a giant wedgie the second before you depart so they can have something to stew about for months.

You have to do it in that order though, because crazy people will destroy your life if given half a chance.
 
2012-05-13 10:06:28 AM

casual disregard: There's a guy at work. If you don't agree with him, he repeats himself. Further disagreement is accompanied with increased volume to the point of yelling. We don't work with him, we work around him. It's easier to pacify him and do whatever he wants than it is to do anything else.


Sounds like his approach is working.
 
2012-05-13 10:08:03 AM

Julie Cochrane: No, it's easier. A physician has the legal right to choose his patients. You write her the refill, and then the next day you have your office assistant send her a letter discharging her from your practice. Over and done. She's no longer your patient.


Then you phone the cops and tell them your prescription pad is missing a note after meeting with the problem patient.

/Problem solved
//Justice served
 
2012-05-13 10:10:34 AM
The Hostile: Telltale signs: High,

Actually, I don't think the hostile are all that high.
 
2012-05-13 10:12:22 AM
when somebody pulls the passive aggressive card on me i directly confront them on it immediately if the present company is all in house folks. they don't pull that shiat on me after that.
 
2012-05-13 10:12:44 AM
Leave. Leave leave leave.

There is no correcting this behavior. Emotional Herpes is there for Forever. No matter how much you break them with logic, with example, they're so freaking nuts there will be no change.

Lived with a Sociopathic Narcissist for four years as a roomate. It came down to fists one night; knocked him on the floor. The next day, it was like nothing ever happened. Seriously.

If they're breaking dishes in the sink to make an emotional point, if they're screaming when they don't get their way, you're farked.

Leave.
 
2012-05-13 10:14:26 AM
"Manipulation comes in many forms: There are whiners. There are bullies. There are the short-fused. Not to forget the highly judgmental. Or the out-and-out sociopath. But they often have one thing in common: Their MO is to provoke, then make you feel you have no reason to react-and it's all your fault to begin with! "



You mean like Democrats?

/Link
 
2012-05-13 10:16:18 AM

tomWright: "Manipulation comes in many forms: There are whiners. There are bullies. There are the short-fused. Not to forget the highly judgmental. Or the out-and-out sociopath. But they often have one thing in common: Their MO is to provoke, then make you feel you have no reason to react-and it's all your fault to begin with! "



You mean like Democrats?

/Link


Lol or political trolls
 
F42
2012-05-13 10:18:47 AM
Does not like to be wrong.

You mean "does not like to be shown they're wrong"?

Because that's very common. What's very rare is people who don't like to be wrong, we appreciate being informed so that we can stop being wrong.
 
2012-05-13 10:24:34 AM

tomWright: You mean like Democrats?


Your troll gets an F for Ffort
 
2012-05-13 10:26:22 AM

Znuh: Lived with a Sociopathic Narcissist for four years as a roomate. It came down to fists one night; knocked him on the floor. The next day, it was like nothing ever happened. Seriously.


You didn't hit him hard enough if he could get back up.
 
2012-05-13 10:37:46 AM

fragMasterFlash: People suck. Get over it, or get 20 cats already.


Exactly! That entire article was an exercise in over-analysis and blame.
 
2012-05-13 10:56:36 AM
The last bit of the article deserves an Obvious tag: Just don't use alcohol as your distraction of choice. It will only make you more likely to say or do something that will set you up as a target or make you feel bad later.
 
2012-05-13 10:58:56 AM

F42: What's very rare is people who don't like to be wrong, we appreciate being informed so that we can stop being wrong.


It is sad that those types are rare... they are the best kind of human.
 
2012-05-13 11:07:31 AM
The article writer gives some pretty bad advice on dealing with a bully boss. If you have a bully boss, you really need to develop an understanding of bullies before you try to change anything. Bullies are always playing a chess game. They may be bad at chess or good at chess, but it's always a chess game, and you are a piece on the board.

When you first realize your boss is a bully and decide to do something about it, you've basically just realized there is a chess game, the boss is a player, you are a piece, and you've decided to enter the game. Before you enter the game and move yourself as a piece, you need to know how your boss sees that game board, and how he sees you as a piece on that board.

If your boss sees you as easily replaceable and readily disposable, you have no bargaining room unless you can increase his perception of your utility to him. If your boss sees you as a threat to be eliminated, or somebody else's piece on the board, or a piece he'd like to acquire, or a useful piece he'd like to keep where it is, or a piece that's useful only so long as it stays where it is---all of that affects how your boss is going to react to your asking him to change anything about how he interacts with you.

Or, if your boss sees you as useful as a game piece because you're a fun toy to play with. Which is usually a bad thing. But not always.

Learn what N/S's are like and how they view the world, and adjust it to your boss in particular, before you go and talk to him. Understand the interaction from the narcissist/sociopath's point of view and game it out before you go in and talk to your boss.

Understand that your boss the bully is not a fellow Human being, he's a Martian (narcissist/sociopath). His brain doesn't think like yours. Make sure you've put yourself in his shoes, thought it through from several angles, and then really, really listen to him as you go so you can make sure you're still following how the Martian is viewing the chess board and you on it as a chess piece.

And recognize that Martians are very impulse-driven. He could fire you, or he could decide he really likes you and you must be a Martian, too--or close enough, and that you might just make an okay ally. If he decides you're a Martian, too, then you're in for an interesting ride.


Pro tip: Sociopaths and narcissists frequently like puns. Odd little quirk. They're also perpetually bored. If you tend to make them laugh, their hostility towards you goes down. The problem is having them like you is often worse than having them ignore you.


Most psychiatrically normal people get in trouble dealing with narcissists and sociopaths when they "anthropomorphise" the narcissist/sociopath. I'm serious as a heart attack about that. In Martha Stout's "The Sociopath Next Door" she talks about how sociopaths hide among "normal" people again and again, all the time, because normal people will notice all these things that are red flags and then they'll say, "But I don't think he's a sociopath." Except he is.

It's the same with narcissists. The thing about the two--which are combined under the same personality disorder heading in DSM V--is that the trait of "empathy" is flat out broken. Sometimes it's a matter of degree, there are shades of gray, but in all cases it's enough that they can do awful stuff and they just don't feel bad about it.

And no matter how much psychiatrically normal people think they can get their heads around that, evidence shows they just can't grasp that these other bipedal primates walking around who look just like people could shoot a five year old kid that was blocking the sidewalk and not feel anything but disgust at the yucky mess on the ground. Except, yeah, well, it was a waste of resources--society probably already had a lot of time and care invested in that kid. Maybe it had even started school. And its parents were going to lose time off work now, and yeah, so it was probably a bad thing....

It kind of helps if you try to think of them as another species and try to remember not to anthropomorphise, and try to remember just to look at them on their own terms. Not so much as good or evil, but as different.

It's patronizing to say so, but emotionally sociopaths aren't all that different from healthy chimpanzees. They bond within their immediate troop and with their kids and mates and hunting partners. Chimpanzees outside their troop they will band up and hunt quite viciously. Sometimes. But within their troop, their immediate "people," they're opportunistic sexually but fairly loyal about not killing each other. Behavior stays more or less within certain norms.

I mean, you wouldn't expect human sociopaths/narcissists to look exactly like healthy chimpanzees, but it may reflect an earlier alpha norm for us. Dunno.

Anyway. I'd advise anyone planning to confront a bully boss by some manner other than handing in notice to prepare for the encounter carefully before engaging.
 
2012-05-13 11:14:42 AM
James F Campbell
This is one of the tell-tale signs you're dealing with someone who has narcissistic personality disorder. They invalidate your perceptions and your feelings and often try to pretend you're misremembering or making things up (called "gaslighting"). Here's some better advice, especially for men who may be in an abusive relationship.

Where was that three years ago?

My most recent ex was the first two (and possibly 4 as well), and the one before her was #3.

/current is None Of The Above, and amazingly awesome
 
2012-05-13 11:30:55 AM
I just fully read the link James posted.

Holy.

Fark.

I've been on the receiving end of all of those. Why did it take me so goddamn long to get out? Twice?
 
2012-05-13 11:43:06 AM

cookiefleck: In a way, the fact they feel the need to behave this way is histrionic, they've learned " if i do this.. I get that" like "if I "a", then "b" happens"


Or, they're crazy farks and crazy farks have to work to put food on the table and have a roof over their heads just like anybody else.

And I say this with all tenderness and compassion as one of the (medicated, treated) crazy farks in the world who tries to get along in the world and tries as much as possible (with mixed results) to keep my problems from becoming other people's problems.

Truly. Sometimes bad behavior isn't that someone learned something maladaptive to the rest of life that worked in a warped environment.

Sometimes it's that they got a bad knock to the head a few days before getting splattered with their best friend's liver, spleen, intestines, and lunch when an IED blew outside the gym. --- (Always has a "what if" catastrophe for how an idea could go wrong. Rains on everyone's parade.)

Sometimes it's that they got a nasty set of genes and their mom died in a car wreck while their dad was deployed and Grandma was in hospital and they ended up in the foster care system for two months, until Dad came home no legs. (Hostile. Bully. Ended up intolerant of "excuses," humiliates subordinates in public. "That" boss.)

The gal whose dad died in Iraq, Grandma is bipolar, Mom is fine. Gal starts cutting at 16. Undergoes treatment. I diagnosed BPD and bipolar. Is in treatment and medicated. Is the rejection-sensitive type of difficult. When you explain missing her as a cc on the email was an accident, not a slight, she apologizes, "Oh, okay, sorry, sorry, I'm too sensitive, sorry." You're not sure she believes you, but she does appear to be trying not to be overly sensitive. You tentatively mention something to the boss. He tells you it's already being handled through the Employee Assistance Program and that you dealt with the incident pretty well.

The bipolar/BPD gal? She had bad genes, she had a traumatic triggering event. Sometimes brain chemistry precedes maladaptive thoughts. Sometimes the chicken comes before the egg. Of course, the chicken then lays eggs that hatch out more chickens that grow up to lay still more eggs.

The heredity versus environment argument has been going on in psychology since before psychology even existed as a science. It's been going on long enough for the "heredity" folks to accumulate case studies of people with some pretty well documented bad genes who grew up in some pretty darned ideal environments. And long enough for the "environment" folks to accumulate case studies of people with some pretty well documented fantastic genes who grew up in some pretty crappy environments. And of course the other way, with people who turned out great despite bad genes or a bad environment.

What finally came out of all the debate was diathesis-stress theory: the theory that for mental illness to occur it generally took a genetic predisposition in the individual towards the illness plus a sufficient stress in the person's environment to trigger that predisposition.

Of course, as we go on, it becomes more complicated. It becomes a question of how much predisposition someone has versus how much resilience they have, genetically, added with how much stressor or damage they have environmentally acquired towards mental illness versus how much resilience or healing they may have environmentally acquired.

And that just counts all damage and healing as equal, not making any distinction as to what kinds of damage to what abilities or parts of the brain.

Fantastically complicated stuff, behavior.
 
2012-05-13 12:04:14 PM

Bondith: I just fully read the link James posted.

Holy.

Fark.

I've been on the receiving end of all of those. Why did it take me so goddamn long to get out? Twice?


Because they're all so very good at convincing you that you are crazy, that you are the problem, that you are upset over nothing.

They're very good at undermining your social supports and your connections and your ability to leave. They're very good at putting you in untenable situations where you can't leave right now because....

They're very good at making the situation a bear trap where you essentially have to be willing to cut off your leg to get out of the trap---and then betting you won't do it.

The only real way to get out of the trap is to prove them wrong by cutting your losses and walking away, because the longer you stay, the deeper in you get. It's like a bear trap that starts out grabbing your toe and bit by bit it climbs your foot, and then your leg. The longer you stay, the higher up you have to amputate to get out. It doesn't climb into the body proper, once it gets to high amputation, a new clamp starts on another limb.

Guess how I know?

I walked.

I'm still paying the price, and I will be for a long damn time. I'll probably never completely recover financially. Dunno about mentally and emotionally. And a lot of it I did to myself--the common denominator in my dysfunctional relationships being me. But I'm no longer getting eaten by bear traps.

And what I'd say to you is that the common denominator in your dysfunctional relationships is you. I had another one of those motherfarkers try to latch onto me in February. We tend to get involved with them because they actively seek people like us out--it's not just simple bad luck or bad taste.

However, I've been working very, very had to correct a lot of my own bad behaviors in relationships that was my side of the dysfunctions. Which meant when this dude in February started to pull his bullshiat, I didn't take the bait. Which led to him throwing a tantrum hissy fit a few days later and dumping me. Guess what? I win.

I only really saw the red flags in retrospect. At the time I was uneasy, but I was wary of dumping guys that were perfectly okay just because once upon a time some other guy hurt me. I'll spare you the details--the breakup fight made it obvious I'd had a lucky escape.

So I guess what I'd suggest is make sure you work on whatever about you makes you easy prey for these chicks. If you don't take the bait, from the very start, they will dump you. And then you win.
 
2012-05-13 12:07:58 PM
keenetrial.com

Charlie Sheen - I don'y pay them for sex. I pay them to go away.
 
2012-05-13 12:32:29 PM

fluffy2097: Znuh: Lived with a Sociopathic Narcissist for four years as a roomate. It came down to fists one night; knocked him on the floor. The next day, it was like nothing ever happened. Seriously.

You didn't hit him hard enough if he could get back up.


The only way you can deal with one of these guys is on a transactional basis, and only if you have the guy's respect. Knocking him on the floor was a good move, but it was probably too late.

Besides, roommate is too close unless you're actually another sociopath/narcissist.

Respect means they have to know you see them for what they are, you will honor the deal, you expect them to honor the deal, it's a straight up deal and that's all it is--a transaction--and that if they screw you over, you will fark them the hell up, by any means necessary, and that you will make it your number one mission in life until it is done. And that you understand, of course, that the same holds true on their side. Of course.

They have to actually believe you will. I guess it's a little easier to have that "cred" (screw me and I'll fark you up) if they know you're not just certifiable, you're certified. [grin]

I don't have problems conversing with them, or socializing or whatnot. But I keep transactions and such very specific and finite, and I watch my back. Which also tends to maintain mutual respect.

I wouldn't room with one. At some point in that roommate relationship, I would end up prey. No thanks.

And that's the point. When interacting with a sociopath/narcissist, you always have to be careful to maintain his awareness that you are not lunch. You may look like lunch, you may smell like lunch, but you will smack the holy living shiat out of him, immediately and hard as all fark, if he tries to eat you.

The well socialized ones, being results oriented people with a code including a sense of respect for a deal, can be better to deal with than normal humans, if you keep all that in mind.

See also: shark, lawyer, businessman, politician, player
 
2012-05-13 12:46:40 PM
www.baseball-bats.net
I've found one of these works wonders.
 
2012-05-13 01:02:05 PM
Julie Cochrane
So I guess what I'd suggest is make sure you work on whatever about you makes you easy prey for these chicks. If you don't take the bait, from the very start, they will dump you. And then you win.

Actually, they'd dump me on a weekly basis, and then yell at me for not trying to win them back.

I went in to the second one a little more warier. There were times when it seemed like she was trying to make a go of it, but she was just too profoundly farked up to be in a normal relationship. Also, she owed me money and I was hoping to get paid back (which is probably the absolute worst reason to stay, in hindsight).

Still, like I mentioned before, the current girlfriend is amazing, and I think I appreciate her more because I've seen the dark end of the dating pool.
 
2012-05-13 01:35:11 PM

tomWright: You mean like Democrats?


If you can't manage to do any better than that, just... stop. Seriously, you're terrible at this.
 
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