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(Lincoln Journal Star)   About that "crazy anti-gay lady?" She really is mentally ill, and, interestingly enough, really is a human being. Here comes the liberal guilt, I hope   (journalstar.com) divider line 658
    More: Followup, Jane Svoboda, single room  
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7511 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 May 2012 at 7:43 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-12 10:50:24 PM  
I just got here, is this thread about Michelle Bachmann?
 
2012-05-12 10:51:15 PM  

bugontherug: Does schizophrenia normally deprive its sufferers of either the capacity to discern right from wrong


It can. It's one of those disorders which range from "mildly unhinged" to "raped and killed ten women". Obviously she's not a danger to herself or other at the moment, but that can change.

When I was a kid, a woman named Kathy Change roamed my neighborhood. She would frequently dance for peace in brightly colored outfits in public places, like the Art Museum and U Penn's campus. Everyone thought she was harmless, but in 1996, while I was in college she killed herself by setting herself on fire (in front of a giant stainless steel peace symbol). She never hurt anyone directly, except herself, but she traumatized a lot of people who saw her kill herself.
 
2012-05-12 10:52:31 PM  

Mikey1969: "Guilt?" Why? Nobody forced her to stand up and dish out the crazy with a giant ladle, she did it all on her own, and has to deal with the consequences as a result. If you don't want your crazy aunt being ridiculed for saying crazy shiat in a public forum, then I suggest you take the time to keep her from saying crazy shiat in a public forum.

Who the Hell lets a woman that is this obviously in need of help wander around without some kind of help? Where the Hell is her family?


They've tried to help her.

fta; Svoboda lives at an assisted-living facility in Lincoln and is listed as a protected person, according to court documents. Her brother, Patrick Svoboda of Ogallala, is her conservator because she is incompetent, the documents say.

He said her family has tried to get her help multiple times, but unless she harms herself or others, there's not much more they can do.


Even crazy people have the right to free speech as long as they are not harming anyone.

On a given level I find this a comforting thought.

/Everyone's crazy but me and thee ...and, quite frankly, I'm starting to worry about thee."
 
2012-05-12 10:56:41 PM  

quatchi: Even crazy people have the right to free speech as long as they are not harming anyone.


Sure. But we also have the right to judge other people, whether or not they are harming anyone. I'm asking whether our judgment was fair in this case, given long accepted principles of moral responsibility in western civilization.
 
2012-05-12 10:59:51 PM  
The difference between her rhetoric and the rhetoric from the right, e.g. marrying dogs, is not very different.

That's the joke.
 
2012-05-12 11:01:01 PM  

bugontherug: quatchi: Even crazy people have the right to free speech as long as they are not harming anyone.

Sure. But we also have the right to judge other people, whether or not they are harming anyone. I'm asking whether our judgment was fair in this case, given long accepted principles of moral responsibility in western civilization.


bugontherug: quatchi: Even crazy people have the right to free speech as long as they are not harming anyone.

Sure. But we also have the right to judge other people, whether or not they are harming anyone. I'm asking whether our judgment was fair in this case, given long accepted principles of moral responsibility in western civilization.


I have absolutely zero problem with the city council saying that her speech is inflammatory, insulting and short on citations, and that such remarks are not welcome in a public forum. In short, lies and hate.

Kind of doubt an already right-leaning city government is going to go that route.
 
2012-05-12 11:01:52 PM  

quatchi: Kurt wrote Breakfast of Champions based partly on his understanding of human psychology based on the idea of crazy being a chemical imbalance in the brain. This was around the time Mark was diagnosed as schizophrenic and was being treated with a vitamin cure. It's not about Mark per se but it's the closest thing.to it among KV's books. Haven't read Mark's later one, "Just Like Someone Without Mental Illness Only More So" but it's on that list.


That makes perfect sense.

It's just that Kurt frequently mentions his family's other misfortunes (and hinted at his own attempts at suicide) in his books, but not his son's. Probably because it was too close to his heart.
 
2012-05-12 11:05:07 PM  
i293.photobucket.com

How about all the conservatives who worked so long and hard to delay me from being able to archive a fap worthy pic of some hot girl on girl in uniform action like this into the old spank bank?

Can we get some conservative guilt in the house for that?
 
2012-05-12 11:11:04 PM  
My 2¢...

The woman is crazy, but does not present a hazard to herself or others and therefore will be left to attend public meetings to burden the public with her thoughts. There are more of these types, to lesser degrees, than you would suspect involved in the democratic process. She does not require our pity nor understanding. These are her thoughts and feelings and they should be left to her for the rest of her natural life.

//Love a thread where the pro-Linux crowd mixes it up with the pro-marijuana crowd.
 
2012-05-12 11:11:11 PM  

quatchi: How about all the conservatives who worked so long and hard to delay me from being able to archive a fap worthy pic of some hot girl on girl in uniform action like this into the old spank bank?

Can we get some conservative guilt in the house for that?


Hell, I'm a gay man, and I can say one thing... that's a hot pic. Not quite fap material, but it's hot.
 
2012-05-12 11:11:53 PM  
Yeah, we kind of figured that out. Doesn't excuse that she was allowed to rant like that.
 
2012-05-12 11:14:15 PM  
The fact that it's so easy to mistake someone who is certifiably insane with a typical 'bagger is unsettling. She's only a half shade of crazy away from being one of those twits who think we're on the brink of falling under Sharia law.
 
2012-05-12 11:14:19 PM  
She usually speaks twice a month during the council's open mic sessions, where citizens can talk for up to five minutes on any topic. The council sits patiently until she is done.

Heh. I had a feeling it was something like that given the lack of outbursts from anybody during her, uh, testimony. Pretty neat in its own way, I guess: she's the local crazy lady and people know her and just put up with her.
 
2012-05-12 11:15:39 PM  
Whaaaa..??? That honest and earnest citizen whose views were passionately defended here and elsewhere by the usual "conservatives"?

Mentally ill?

Look, listen, NOBODY could have guessed that!
 
2012-05-12 11:19:57 PM  

Linux_Yes: Linux_Yes: Schizophrenia is some serious sh*t. the worst of all mental illnesses.

i knew a girl who had it. their brains don't process information like a normal brain. they think and say things that don't make sense to anyone else. they have trouble separating what is real from what is not real. almost like was it a dream or did it really happen kind of thing. its freaky and there is no cure for it. most patients get the illness in their teens and early twenties. so watch out all you young Farkers.

oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.


so think about that one next time you want to blow a joint, kiddies.


Every schizophrenic person I knew didn't smoke "weed". Everyone of them committed suicide before the age of 30. I think you'd have an easier time admitting water causes it. There is that little noted fact about schizophrenic people being born during two seasons of the year. Somehow, I'm sure someone could blame their parents for "weeding" out.
 
2012-05-12 11:20:38 PM  
I'm sure the producers of Winter Wipeout appreciated that plug.
 
2012-05-12 11:23:35 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: quatchi: Kurt wrote Breakfast of Champions based partly on his understanding of human psychology based on the idea of crazy being a chemical imbalance in the brain. This was around the time Mark was diagnosed as schizophrenic and was being treated with a vitamin cure. It's not about Mark per se but it's the closest thing.to it among KV's books. Haven't read Mark's later one, "Just Like Someone Without Mental Illness Only More So" but it's on that list.

That makes perfect sense.

It's just that Kurt frequently mentions his family's other misfortunes (and hinted at his own attempts at suicide) in his books, but not his son's. Probably because it was too close to his heart.


Agreed. After he worked his feelings over his sister Alice's suicide out in print and other family tragedies I believe doing the same thing with Mark would have been too much.
 
2012-05-12 11:23:53 PM  

MorrisBird: I have absolutely nothing against marijuana. I think it should be legal. But, pot smokers are the most boring critters on the face of the intarwebs.


"Interwebs!" Classic, and not at all boring. Bonus: "critters". So awesome, I think I'll pass on the Will Ferrel SNL this evening. My wife and I will be discussing this amazingly interesting post for the rest of the night week.

/after I smoke this bowl.
 
2012-05-12 11:25:38 PM  

bugontherug: quatchi: Even crazy people have the right to free speech as long as they are not harming anyone.

Sure. But we also have the right to judge other people, whether or not they are harming anyone. I'm asking whether our judgment was fair in this case, given long accepted principles of moral responsibility in western civilization.


I would rather err on the side of caution where the first amendment is concerned.

Her testimony was pure schizophrenia and a waste of time but it was a democratic waste of time.
 
2012-05-12 11:27:59 PM  
Whether she is schizophrenic or not should factor into what we think of the person but not what we think of what she said. What she said is common among the right and it is heinous.
 
2012-05-12 11:36:34 PM  
OK, so she's mentally Ill. How does that explain similar statements from Alan West, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, Michelle Malkin, Bill O'reilly... (I could go on. And on... and on..
 
2012-05-12 11:37:05 PM  
All conservatives are mentally ill.
 
2012-05-12 11:38:23 PM  

Counter_Intelligent: PonceAlyosha: Yeah no. Locked in syndrome.

Yeah, Yeah. I'd rather be paralyzed than lose my self.


I'd rather have no connection to reality and have a sense of agency then slowly go mad, completely aware of my utter inability to help myself.
 
2012-05-12 11:41:03 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: All conservatives are mentally ill.


Not true. Some have lots of money. And for some it provides in-group social advantage. And some just like it.
 
2012-05-12 11:41:03 PM  

Glicky: //Love a thread where the pro-Linux crowd mixes it up with the pro-marijuana crowd.


Which is weird in that aside from the individuals posting in this thread, the Venn diagram of those two groups is usually a circle.
 
2012-05-12 11:42:32 PM  

PonceAlyosha: LouDobbsAwaaaay: All conservatives are mentally ill.

Not true. Some have lots of money. And for some it provides in-group social advantage. And some just like it.


The super-wealthy aren't really conservative, and the other two groups are still mentally ill, they just derive a benefit from it.
 
2012-05-12 11:43:05 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Counter_Intelligent: PonceAlyosha: Yeah no. Locked in syndrome.

Yeah, Yeah. I'd rather be paralyzed than lose my self.

I'd rather have no connection to reality and have a sense of agency then slowly go mad, completely aware of my utter inability to help myself.


I actually learned of Locked-in syndrome earlier today from reading "list-verse". As I have a phobia of being paralyzed-buried alive-unable to control my body I have to agree with Counter. I would rather lose my mind. At least I have no clue what that would be like. Hell, it might not be that bad.
 
2012-05-12 11:44:03 PM  

PonceAlyosha: LouDobbsAwaaaay: All conservatives are mentally ill.

Not true. Some have lots of money. And for some it provides in-group social advantage. And some just like it.


True, they are just morally deficient, not mentally deficient.
 
2012-05-12 11:45:35 PM  

PsychoTherapist:
. It should not be illegal to be mentally ill.



It shoudn't be, but the scariest thing is that this nation's three largest mental health providers are jails: Riker's Island in NYC, LA County Jail, and the Cook County Jail in Chicago. In fact the sheriff of Cook County begged Mayor Rahm Emmanuel to not close any city mental health centers. He did anyway becuase he didn't want to betray his "Because fark you, that's why!" leadership style.

That aside, I do take the idea that Ms. Svoboda should not be allowed to speak very personally: I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder a few years ago and went around undiagnosed prior. What she said was ridiculous, but the fact is that anyone who would deny Ms Svoboda the right to speak could quickly do it to me.

Many posters mentioned that the old Soviet Union used to label dissidents as insane and lock them away. Meanwhile in this country, we denied those who were mentally ill the right to vote, marry, speak, work, get a driver's license, what have you. They were often locked away in mental institutions where the care consisted of forced sterilzation and experimentation.

Through medication most mentally ill people are able to function in society, and it can be difficult dealing with the side effects of medications: Seroquel for example causes considerable weight gain and drowziness.

Perhaps someday we'll act like a civilized nation and do something for the mentally ill besides throwing them in jail. But the cynic in me doesn't hold out a lot of hope
 
2012-05-12 11:46:35 PM  

cmb53208: PsychoTherapist:
. It should not be illegal to be mentally ill.



It shoudn't be, but the scariest thing is that this nation's three largest mental health providers are jails: Riker's Island in NYC, LA County Jail, and the Cook County Jail in Chicago. In fact the sheriff of Cook County begged Mayor Rahm Emmanuel to not close any city mental health centers. He did anyway becuase he didn't want to betray his "Because fark you, that's why!" leadership style.

That aside, I do take the idea that Ms. Svoboda should not be allowed to speak very personally: I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder a few years ago and went around undiagnosed prior. What she said was ridiculous, but the fact is that anyone who would deny Ms Svoboda the right to speak could quickly do it to me.

Many posters mentioned that the old Soviet Union used to label dissidents as insane and lock them away. Meanwhile in this country, we denied those who were mentally ill the right to vote, marry, speak, work, get a driver's license, what have you. They were often locked away in mental institutions where the care consisted of forced sterilzation and experimentation.

Through medication most mentally ill people are able to function in society, and it can be difficult dealing with the side effects of medications: Seroquel for example causes considerable weight gain and drowziness.

Perhaps someday we'll act like a civilized nation and do something for the mentally ill besides throwing them in jail. But the cynic in me doesn't hold out a lot of hope


Rahm is a HORRIBLE Democrat.
 
2012-05-12 11:47:16 PM  

Dwight_Yeast: James F. Campbell: F*CK this crazy lady and her ignorant, insane rambling. She belongs in a mental institution.

Reagan took care of that. He cut off Federal mental health funding, which is why people like this women (and the women here in Philly, who wanders around answering public pay phones) wander the streets.

The only thing I feel guilt for is that there was no coverage of mental health issues in the "Obamacare" HCR Act.


Patrick Kennedy says there is.
 
2012-05-12 11:51:33 PM  
Mentally ill?
She made a pretty good spokesperson for the right-wingers. Almost coherent over several words.
She should run for the first Republican female president.
 
2012-05-12 11:54:45 PM  

Gyrfalcon

Smartest
Funniest
2012-05-12 07:49:32 PM
Chariset: If she's mentally ill, why is she speaking in public?

And what exactly would you like done to prevent her from speaking?

She's not dangerous.
She's not unable to care for her basic needs.
She's still entitled to all her Constitutional rights because she's done nothing to lose any of them.

Merely because she's schizophrenic doesn't mean she doesn't know what she's doing--what would make you think she's not able to speak about things as she understands them? Or do you hold to the notion that crazy people are somehow subhuman? Do elucidate, as a mentally ill person myself, I'm completely fascinated by your opinion.


By definition schizophrenics are divorced from reality (to some degree) through delusions and/or hallucinations. It's not always immediately apparent, and it's not the Town Council's job to keep tabs on every citizen's mental health.
I can say from personal experience that some schizophrenics can appear perfectly normal till their conversation steers toward their own particular, individual delusion.
"And that's when I realized that my next door neighbors were turning my blood to powder" or "It wasn't till I graduated college that I realized that Led Zeppelin was sending me messages through their music."
It's a chilling moment when you realize you're talking to someone whose entire thought process is completely off the rails.
These folks are usually more sad than dangerous, but delusions and hallucinations can bring out some truly bizarre behavior. If they really believe that their stomach has turned to stone, they might think that the cure is to eat the brain stem of the next person to knock on their door.

Like this guy:
www.nokilli.com
Both sad AND dangerous
 
2012-05-12 11:57:04 PM  

dstrick44: Gyrfalcon

Smartest
Funniest
2012-05-12 07:49:32 PM
Chariset: If she's mentally ill, why is she speaking in public?

And what exactly would you like done to prevent her from speaking?

She's not dangerous.
She's not unable to care for her basic needs.
She's still entitled to all her Constitutional rights because she's done nothing to lose any of them.

Merely because she's schizophrenic doesn't mean she doesn't know what she's doing--what would make you think she's not able to speak about things as she understands them? Or do you hold to the notion that crazy people are somehow subhuman? Do elucidate, as a mentally ill person myself, I'm completely fascinated by your opinion.

By definition schizophrenics are divorced from reality (to some degree) through delusions and/or hallucinations. It's not always immediately apparent, and it's not the Town Council's job to keep tabs on every citizen's mental health.
I can say from personal experience that some schizophrenics can appear perfectly normal till their conversation steers toward their own particular, individual delusion.
"And that's when I realized that my next door neighbors were turning my blood to powder" or "It wasn't till I graduated college that I realized that Led Zeppelin was sending me messages through their music."
It's a chilling moment when you realize you're talking to someone whose entire thought process is completely off the rails.
These folks are usually more sad than dangerous, but delusions and hallucinations can bring out some truly bizarre behavior. If they really believe that their stomach has turned to stone, they might think that the cure is to eat the brain stem of the next person to knock on their door.

Like this guy:
[www.nokilli.com image 220x216]
Both sad AND dangerous


I worked in a group home for years. I hated working with schizophrenics. They were the least predictable. Plus they were the most likely to smear their feces on the wall. That was always a bummer.
 
2012-05-12 11:57:46 PM  

cmb53208: Perhaps someday we'll act like a civilized nation and do something for the mentally ill besides throwing them in jail. But the cynic in me doesn't hold out a lot of hope


1. Stop electing Republicans
 
2012-05-12 11:59:28 PM  

whidbey: cmb53208: Perhaps someday we'll act like a civilized nation and do something for the mentally ill besides throwing them in jail. But the cynic in me doesn't hold out a lot of hope

1. Stop electing Republicans


What??? Then we have to pay for it!
 
2012-05-13 12:02:31 AM  

Sabyen91: whidbey: cmb53208: Perhaps someday we'll act like a civilized nation and do something for the mentally ill besides throwing them in jail. But the cynic in me doesn't hold out a lot of hope

1. Stop electing Republicans

What??? Then we have to pay for it!


Oh we're paying the price all right.
 
2012-05-13 12:05:22 AM  
So...she's a conservaitve?
 
2012-05-13 12:05:47 AM  

whidbey: Sabyen91: whidbey: cmb53208: Perhaps someday we'll act like a civilized nation and do something for the mentally ill besides throwing them in jail. But the cynic in me doesn't hold out a lot of hope

1. Stop electing Republicans

What??? Then we have to pay for it!

Oh we're paying the price all right.


But not monetarily so all is good.
 
2012-05-13 12:06:07 AM  

Sabyen91: I worked in a group home for years. I hated working with schizophrenics. They were the least predictable. Plus they were the most likely to smear their feces on the wall. That was always a bummer.


A few years back I had a different upstairs neighbor than I did now. The first time I met her she started rocking back and forth telling me about how her name was written down in five books and the government was out to get her. After a few months of her living there I started to notice whenever I went my living room it had a faint smell of pee. Eventually she became completely unhinged,started selling her medicine for her bipolar and schizophrenia,got into a massive amount of debt and was sent to live into another halfway house. Turns out the pee smell was from her peeing in the floor because she thought the government had put cameras in her toilet and food. She also nailed all her closets and windows shut because of the shadow people. She also huffed paint. shiat like that is just sad because you don't know if she was sane before the paint or if the paint made her like that.
 
2012-05-13 12:06:36 AM  

Chariset: If she's mentally ill, why is she speaking in public?


lmao. good one.
 
2012-05-13 12:06:37 AM  

zenobia: Dwight_Yeast: James F. Campbell: F*CK this crazy lady and her ignorant, insane rambling. She belongs in a mental institution.

Reagan took care of that. He cut off Federal mental health funding, which is why people like this women (and the women here in Philly, who wanders around answering public pay phones) wander the streets.

The only thing I feel guilt for is that there was no coverage of mental health issues in the "Obamacare" HCR Act.

Patrick Kennedy says there is.


Now that's interesting. I hadn't heard about that. and I'll be interested in seeing how it plays out.

Based on this

After a 12-year fight, mental health advocates won passage of legislation championed by the late Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone to require insurance companies to treat mental health on an equal basis with physical illnesses, when policies cover both.


Based on the policies I've looked at recently, most simply don't cover mental health issues (aside from covering mental health-related drugs), and those that do are hideously expensive, as mental health issues are expensive to treat because we refuse to cover them in this country (it's a vicious and self-perpetuating circle).

Right now, I'm paying out of pocket for my own mental health care (I have no health insurance) and the extremely nice woman who works at my pharmacy managed to swing me all sorts of discounts for my meds because I'm uninsured.
 
2012-05-13 12:08:08 AM  
She may be mentally ill, but what about the people that listened to her and nodded their heads in agreement with what she was saying?
 
2012-05-13 12:08:36 AM  
I actually hated that this got as much attention as it did as an example of bigotry when it was a pretty text book case of schizophrenia. I mean... the subliminal messages part of her ramble? That's something anyone who's ever watched more than one episode of Law and Order should have been able to recognize as schizophrenia.

And yea, she's not harming herself or anyone else, so she has the right to do this. Ignoring it is really the best way to handle it.
 
2012-05-13 12:09:48 AM  

Sabyen91: whidbey: cmb53208: Perhaps someday we'll act like a civilized nation and do something for the mentally ill besides throwing them in jail. But the cynic in me doesn't hold out a lot of hope

1. Stop electing Republicans

What??? Then we have to pay for it!


See, the way we have it set up now, we make money off of the mentally ill by monetizing prisons.
 
2012-05-13 12:10:53 AM  

A Terrible Human: Sabyen91: I worked in a group home for years. I hated working with schizophrenics. They were the least predictable. Plus they were the most likely to smear their feces on the wall. That was always a bummer.

A few years back I had a different upstairs neighbor than I did now. The first time I met her she started rocking back and forth telling me about how her name was written down in five books and the government was out to get her. After a few months of her living there I started to notice whenever I went my living room it had a faint smell of pee. Eventually she became completely unhinged,started selling her medicine for her bipolar and schizophrenia,got into a massive amount of debt and was sent to live into another halfway house. Turns out the pee smell was from her peeing in the floor because she thought the government had put cameras in her toilet and food. She also nailed all her closets and windows shut because of the shadow people. She also huffed paint. shiat like that is just sad because you don't know if she was sane before the paint or if the paint made her like that.


That sounds like someone about ready to move into the group home I worked in. It is terrifying that some of them were normal for years. ANYBODY could turn out that way.
 
2012-05-13 12:11:40 AM  
"She does have a very tender heart ... but anything she says is certifiably schizophrenic ... she's not some crazy conservative."

I think it's a step in the right direction that we would rather our loved ones be described as psychopathic than conservative. At least then there's an understandable excuse for being so out of touch with reality.
 
2012-05-13 12:11:58 AM  

Genevieve Marie: I actually hated that this got as much attention as it did as an example of bigotry when it was a pretty text book case of schizophrenia. I mean... the subliminal messages part of her ramble? That's something anyone who's ever watched more than one episode of Law and Order should have been able to recognize as schizophrenia.

And yea, she's not harming herself or anyone else, so she has the right to do this. Ignoring it is really the best way to handle it.


The people that agree with her ARE harming people.
 
2012-05-13 12:12:25 AM  

Sabyen91:

Rahm is a HORRIBLE Democrat.


Rahm's just a horrible human being.
 
2012-05-13 12:13:04 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: Sabyen91: whidbey: cmb53208: Perhaps someday we'll act like a civilized nation and do something for the mentally ill besides throwing them in jail. But the cynic in me doesn't hold out a lot of hope

1. Stop electing Republicans

What??? Then we have to pay for it!

See, the way we have it set up now, we make money off of the mentally ill by monetizing prisons.


Yeah, yet another wonderful side effect of having private prisons.
 
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