PsychoTherapist: Subby here. I posted this item because I've met this woman and because I thought it was important to take a second look at the story. The headline ("liberal guilt") is 1/2 trolltastic and 1/2 wistfully tongue in cheek. I'm a liberal, and if there ever was a time to feel liberal guilt, it would be after watching ourselves mock Ms. Svoboda.

I'm a little shocked to see all the comments to the effect that she should be locked up, and very, very heartened to see the comments reminding people that this woman, who does not represent any danger to anyone, has human rights. It should not be illegal to be mentally ill. (I liked the LJS' note that the city council is used to her and lets her speak quite regularly.)

I don't know Ms. Svoboda's case personally or who's been involved in her mental health care. She would probably act differently if she were regularly taking antipsychotic medication, but, as long as she is not in danger nor dangerous, she has the right not to do so. I've worked with people like her and I know how heart-wrenching and difficult it can be for family members to stand by and watch this happen, but my take is that liberty ain't always pretty.

Thanks for listening, Farkers, and thanks for being your usual kind, snarky, compassionate, cruel selves. This is why I've stuck around so long and why I continue to waste so much time here despite all the things I should be doing instead.

(plus: Yay! My first approved link!)

Unless you believe Ms. Svoboda can't discern right from wrong, or lacks free will, she is still morally responsible for being a bigot. Unless so excused, she deserves to be mercilessly mocked for that reason alone.

I myself suspend judgment. I can say that even schizophrenics usually lose the insanity defense in criminal trials.

The_Gallant_Gallstone: PsychoTherapist: The headline ("liberal guilt") is 1/2 trolltastic and 1/2
wistfully tongue in cheek.

And 100% Grade A D-Bag material. Leave trolling to the experts.

Baz744: If you think the entrance of homosexuality into the mainstream of western society isn't new, you are truly an idiot.

[i232.photobucket.com image 450x232]

Linux_Yes: Red China is going to kick our collective asses good in 10 to 20 years.

Finally, the international proletariat will demolish the bourgeois oppressors!.


nope. and Red China is still Red..................

Dwight_Yeast: Oh and on the whole pot/psychosis/mental illness thing, I'd also point to Mark Vonnegut's. Mark (Kurt's son) had a series of increasingly extreme psychotic episodes in the 1960s, in the middle of the counter-culture movement. Initially, they thought it was just the drugs he was taking, then when it kept happening, they thought he was psychotic and treated him accordingly, which made him worse and then better.

Eventually, he was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and treated accordingly, which changed his life. He became a physician and has been (more or less) sane since.

Even when he wrote his first book, The Eden Express (which was before he was correctly diagnosed) he was certain that his drug use was caused by, not the cause of, his mental illness.

How do you know all this sh*t?
You're like Fark's version of Snopes Yeast. :)

apoptotic: Because whether its for their own protection or society's convenience, from what you've said in this thread it seems to me as if on this topic your primary concern is in ensuring that people like Svoboda not be allowed to exercise their right to speak publicly. After other posters disputed your assertion that it was constitutional to apply mental competency requirements to public forums, you came at it from another angle and said

All I've been saying is that there should be a mechanism in place to keep people like these out of the limelight in situations (like this) where letting them speak would be to everybody's detriment (including theirs). I was just countering the suggestion that they should be allowed to speak freely and independently no matter what. I certainly wasn't suggesting that they should never be allowed to speak; there could of course be plenty of conceivable situations in which it is actually beneficial to have them speak.

whidbey: PsychoTherapist: I'm a little shocked to see all the comments to the effect that she should be locked up, and very, very heartened to see the comments reminding people that this woman, who does not represent any danger to anyone, has human rights.

I don't think she should be locked up, but this speech she made to the council really does have to be her last, given the circumstances.

When free speech becomes incoherent hate filled slander, it crosses the line.

I think you need to review the definitions of "slander" and "free speech".

whidbey: Linux_Yes: Linux_Yes: Schizophrenia is some serious sh*t. the worst of all mental illnesses.

i knew a girl who had it. their brains don't process information like a normal brain. they think and say things that don't make sense to anyone else. they have trouble separating what is real from what is not real. almost like was it a dream or did it really happen kind of thing. its freaky and there is no cure for it. most patients get the illness in their teens and early twenties. so watch out all you young Farkers.

oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.


so think about that one next time you want to blow a joint, kiddies.

Like there are posters on Fark who still believe that Linux_Yes isn't a raging right-winger pretending to be a progressive lib...


good one. and i go to church every sunday too, right?

The_Gallant_Gallstone: PsychoTherapist: The headline ("liberal guilt") is 1/2 trolltastic and 1/2
wistfully tongue in cheek.

And 100% Grade A D-Bag material. Leave trolling to the experts.

Oh, I think I did just fine. Given your reaction.

PsychoTherapist: whidbey: PsychoTherapist: I'm a little shocked to see all the comments to the effect that she should be locked up, and very, very heartened to see the comments reminding people that this woman, who does not represent any danger to anyone, has human rights.

I don't think she should be locked up, but this speech she made to the council really does have to be her last, given the circumstances.

When free speech becomes incoherent hate filled slander, it crosses the line.

I think you need to review the definitions of "slander" and "free speech".

I think you need to agree with me that the council shouldn't be allowing her to speak there anymore.

Biological Ali: Gyrfalcon: Chariset: If she's mentally ill, why is she speaking in public?

And what exactly would you like done to prevent her from speaking?

She's not dangerous.
She's not unable to care for her basic needs.
She's still entitled to all her Constitutional rights because she's done nothing to lose any of them.

Merely because she's schizophrenic doesn't mean she doesn't know what she's doing--what would make you think she's not able to speak about things as she understands them? Or do you hold to the notion that crazy people are somehow subhuman? Do elucidate, as a mentally ill person myself, I'm completely fascinated by your opinion.

Is it really that unreasonable to have some mental competency requirements for speakers at venues like this?

fark yes, there is. There was a time when many of the things we take for granted today were considered crazy & dangerous. And it all hinges on who gets to decide who is crazy. One of the USSR's favorite tricks was declaring dissidents crazy, stuffing them with drugs, and tossing them in a mental hospital for life.

The medical rule of thumb is, as long as you can tell me who you are, where you are, and when you are, you're assumed to be competent to make your own decisions, no matter how whackadoodle I might think those decisions are.

That lady is alert and oriented. Unhinged, but barring dangerous behavior, she has the right to go her own way, same as we all do.

And I will gladly allow a nutball to speak for 5 minutes, as opposed to cavalierly disregarding the rights of my fellow citizens, as you seem to.

Here's a hint: her little speech is just like gay marriage--it has NO effect on your own life. It doesn't hurt you to listen to it, and it doesn't change anything for you at all.

So be real careful about being willing to use the government to stop things you find distasteful. You'll find yourself in unpleasant company...

Linux_Yes: Weaver95: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz..

oh look - a lie.


oh, look. someone who's never used Google and done any research on the subject. ignorance truly is bliss, ain't it?

Oh look. Somebody with an agenda.

bugontherug: Unless you believe Ms. Svoboda can't discern right from wrong, or lacks free will, she is still morally responsible for being a bigot. Unless so excused, she deserves to be mercilessly mocked for that reason alone.

I myself suspend judgment. I can say that even schizophrenics usually lose the insanity defense in criminal trials.

Are you really suspending judgement there? Kinda sounds all judge-jury-executionery to me.

God-is-a-Taco: Whoops wrong thread. heh
Having two gay threads (NTTAWWT) at once is confusing

I did wonder about that...:p

/However, the 'punishment v. rehabilitation' comparison does certainly put it in an interesting perspective, so thank you, it's a good point and one I hadn't thought of.

truthseeker2083: Dwight_Yeast: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.

[citation needed]

I've read about some of those studies and they all agree on one thing: they can't draw a direct correlation between drug use and mental illness, as the mentally ill frequently self-medicate (and I can personally attest to that).

Same here. That's why I smoke. It's much cheaper, and much more effective dealing with my mental crossed wires than any of the roughly 20 different meds they tried out on me for years. Was taking medications, went to psych ward four times in a couple years. Started smoking, haven't seen a psych ward in over five years. Suck on that anyone claiming that weed causes mental illness. It may, in some cases, make things worse for those with mental issues, but it does help others with their issues. I think it's like any medicine. How it works for you and your issues depends on body chemistry.


hey, Prescription drugs have their side effects too. you can screw yourself up good on prescription drugs. if the weed works for you, bravo. i would just be very careful and smoke as little of it as you need to get by. less is more.

Linux_Yes: whidbey: Linux_Yes: Linux_Yes: Schizophrenia is some serious sh*t. the worst of all mental illnesses.

i knew a girl who had it. their brains don't process information like a normal brain. they think and say things that don't make sense to anyone else. they have trouble separating what is real from what is not real. almost like was it a dream or did it really happen kind of thing. its freaky and there is no cure for it. most patients get the illness in their teens and early twenties. so watch out all you young Farkers.

oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.


so think about that one next time you want to blow a joint, kiddies.

Like there are posters on Fark who still believe that Linux_Yes isn't a raging right-winger pretending to be a progressive lib...


good one. and i go to church every sunday too, right?

No, but the "real" Linux is raging that people young and old actually enjoy smoking marijuana recreationally hence the right-wing anti-weed propaganda slip you made back there. Just couldn't help yourself, I guess...

whidbey: I think you need to agree with me that the council shouldn't be allowing her to speak there anymore.

I can't imagine why you think that. Certainly I don't feel any such need. I definitely don't agree!

The My Little Pony Killer: Linux_Yes: Weaver95: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz..

oh look - a lie.


oh, look. someone who's never used Google and done any research on the subject. ignorance truly is bliss, ain't it?

Oh look. Somebody with an agenda.



ok, i take everything back. all Republicans should smoke as much weed as they can. and all mentally ill people should just salute the flag and be a proud american and stop whining about being mentally ill.

see, that was sooo easy!! God i like easy! its so....well......easy. no work required.

Oh, about the marijuana thing: Yes, it kicks some people over the edge into psychosis. Not many, but the problem is it's hard to know who that's going to happen to before it happens.

PsychoTherapist: whidbey: I think you need to agree with me that the council shouldn't be allowing her to speak there anymore.

I can't imagine why you think that. Certainly I don't feel any such need. I definitely don't agree!

Well, I'm not going to go through it with you a third time. To any rational thinking person, it should be obvious, and perhaps you're just being obtuse.

werekoala: The medical rule of thumb is, as long as you can tell me who you are, where you are, and when you are, you're assumed to be competent to make your own decisions, no matter how whackadoodle I might think those decisions are.

The article seems to indicate that she's not competent.

Biological Ali: I was just countering the suggestion that they should be allowed to speak freely and independently no matter what. I certainly wasn't suggesting that they should never be allowed to speak

Perhaps we could construct "Zones" where they can exercise their "Free Speech" we can call these regions... "Free Speech Zones"

BTW, it's been fun, but wife-like calling has been detected. Time to go watch SHERLOCK with the Mrs. I think this is a fun thread and I hope you all have enjoyed it too. Nighty night!

PsychoTherapist: Oh, about the marijuana thing: Yes, it kicks some people over the edge into psychosis. Not many, but the problem is it's hard to know who that's going to happen to before it happens.

So in other words, it's not really an issue.

We got that.

Linux_Yes: Linux_Yes: Linux_Yes: Farker Soze: Linux_Yes: Farker Soze: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.

Yeah, and using linux when you're young greatly increases your chance of being a colossal dork.


maybe it does. but a dork that doesn't have Schizophrenia and one who uses an OS that is infection free, fast as hell, more secure, and no need for disk defrag, etc.

i could go on and on about the advantages over Windblows. but you aren't worth it.

Right, chump. MS-DOS is fast as hell too. You know why? It's 30 farking years old. And lunix is a dinosaur compared to DOS. Unix... LOL. More secure because NO ONE GIVES A DAMN ABOUT IT too. Oh, I found a 'sploit! I can now make slaves of all of the two lunix boxes the entire nation, whoopee. If you'd open your mind and smoke a spliff you might not be such a tired old stick in the mud luddite.


Linux is a clone of UNIX

and you speak of Security??? UNIX is the most secure OS on the planet, dinky. google and learn something.


........ever wonder why two thirds of all Webservers run Linux??

i'll give you a guess...........the word starts with an 'S'.



hey stinky breath, there is a REASON(s) why a customized UNIX OS was used to run the Mars Rover.

Confirmed for 12 years old. Say hello to my ignore list, champ.

PsychoTherapist: Oh, about the marijuana thing: Yes, it kicks some people over the edge into psychosis. Not many, but the problem is it's hard to know who that's going to happen to before it happens.


i'm not against being high. been there, loved it. i'm just not willing to play chemical russian roulette with my brain. if i knew i'd be dead in a year anyway, i'd smoke weed every nite. but i can't live as if i've only one year left. young people seem to think weed is just a harmless giggle. i'd be one happy camper if that was only true.

The_Gallant_Gallstone: Biological Ali: I was just countering the suggestion that they should be allowed to speak freely and independently no matter what. I certainly wasn't suggesting that they should never be allowed to speak

Perhaps we could construct "Zones" where they can exercise their "Free Speech" we can call these regions... "Free Speech Zones"

What's that got to do with the price of tea in China?

Linux_Yes: i'm not against being high. been there, loved it. i'm just not willing to play chemical russian roulette with my brain. if i knew i'd be dead in a year anyway, i'd smoke weed every nite. but i can't live as if i've only one year left. young people seem to think weed is just a harmless giggle.

What crazed right-wingers actually believe.

I love it when you actually post, Linux. Brings out the real you.

Baz744: If you think the entrance of homosexuality into the mainstream of western society isn't new, you are truly an idiot.

1) Do you really think I'm Winterhwhile's alt? If so, that's really funny, as I have a hard enough time pretending to be myself, much less time to pretend to be someone else (or vice versa).

As for the notion that homosexuality is new to the mainstream of western society, I suggest you read up on your history. Start with ancient Athens, where homosexuality wasn't frowned upon, and in fact it was freely discussed, as Plato's Socratic dialogues show. Then you've got Alexander the Great, who chased his male lover naked around the tomb of Achilles at Troy, an event recorded in contemporary histories and not seen as the least bit shocking.

The ancient Romans publicly frowned on homosexuality, but freely practiced it both at home and in public brothels. Shows like Rome and Spartacus actually give a fairly accurate portrayal of sexual mores of that era, based on original text (and not Victorian moralizing).

he first real public expression of homophobia comes with the epistles of St Paul, but even in the Middle Ages, prosecutions for sodomy were infrequent.

Once the counter-Reformation started in the 1550s, the Church started to crack down, but it was still not a serious issue; in the criminal records of the time, productions or sodomy were common and punishment generally non-existent. The artist Berni was arrested several time for public(!) sodomy and never punished. His brother once raped an apprentice in St Peter's and the Pope simply dismissed the case.

It wasn't until the later 1600s and the rise of the inquisition that punishing accused sodomites by death became a common thing, and that arational, puritanical hatred of homosexual continued through the 19th century, when it was at its peak (the late 18th century was fairly lax about such things, at least in Europe), and we're still feeling the after-effects today.

/I'm gay and a trained historian; I've done just a little research into the subject in my day ;)

Linux_Yes: truthseeker2083: Dwight_Yeast: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.

[citation needed]

I've read about some of those studies and they all agree on one thing: they can't draw a direct correlation between drug use and mental illness, as the mentally ill frequently self-medicate (and I can personally attest to that).

Same here. That's why I smoke. It's much cheaper, and much more effective dealing with my mental crossed wires than any of the roughly 20 different meds they tried out on me for years. Was taking medications, went to psych ward four times in a couple years. Started smoking, haven't seen a psych ward in over five years. Suck on that anyone claiming that weed causes mental illness. It may, in some cases, make things worse for those with mental issues, but it does help others with their issues. I think it's like any medicine. How it works for you and your issues depends on body chemistry.


hey, Prescription drugs have their side effects too. you can screw yourself up good on prescription drugs. if the weed works for you, bravo. i would just be very careful and smoke as little of it as you need to get by. less is more.

Thanks, but I've read those studies too. They show a lot of people with schizophrenia and other mental disorders smoke weed. They do not show it caused it. Again, I was on several medications, went to psych ward. I started to smoke, no psych ward. I think the dose of natural plant I take is just fine thanks. When I have it, I stay stoned all day, just like I did on the prescriptions. Unlike the pills however, I can still function, and quite well, when I smoke. If less is more, then none should be the best amount right?

Again, those studies themselves admit there is no way to know if the weed caused the illnesses or if the illnesses caused the regular smoking. When someone takes so many medications that don't work, then find one that does, they stick with it. Like I have for the past 5 years.

Put that in your pipe and smoke it.

/her being bonkers doesn't excuse her vile speech. The fact it sounds just like those running on the right proves how far out there their positions are.
//not saying you excused her, just wanted to say that

werekoala: Here's a hint: her little speech is just like gay marriage--it has NO effect on your own life. It doesn't hurt you to listen to it, and it doesn't change anything for you at all.

So be real careful about being willing to use the government to stop things you find distasteful. You'll find yourself in unpleasant company...

Here's a shocker:

All point of view aren't necessarily valid. Or should be tolerated.

Chariset: If she's mentally ill, why is she speaking in public?

She can't afford Total Fark?

whidbey: How do you know all this sh*t?
You're like Fark's version of Snopes Yeast. :)

I've been mentally ill (as I mentioned upthread) for a long time, and when you're so depressed you can face the world, reading fills the time.

As for Mark Vonnegut's book, I stumbled on it completely by accident a year or so ago in a used bookstore. I picked it up because I love his father's work, and was surprised that Kurt never mentioned his son's problems in his books. It turned out to be an excellent read, but also one which covered several interests of mine: the 60s counterculture, mental illness and the history thereof, and Vonnegut.

ronnie2bucks 2012-05-12 08:17:31 PM

Go be crazy somewhere else

claws

fangs

rip tear shred

_mew.

Meh, she expresses what many a teatard troll writes on fark . Is she crazier than them only because she has enough gumption to state her ideas in public? Of course not. The lot should be in padded farking cells.

whidbey: All point of view aren't necessarily valid. Or should be tolerated.

All viewpoints should be tolerated. They should not be treated as equally valid.

/tired of this "it's my opinion so you have to accept it" bullshiat

This is fun.

A rambling off her meds crazy lady is practically indistinguishable from a modern GOPher but somehow it's the left need to feel guilty here?

Yeah, I'll get on that, Subby.

She once brought in a large stick figure that she said was her mother's ghost, but the council told her not to bring in props anymore.

Carrot Top really ruined it for all current and future prop comics.

Gyrfalcon: Biological Ali: Gyrfalcon: Chariset: If she's mentally ill, why is she speaking in public?

And what exactly would you like done to prevent her from speaking?

She's not dangerous.
She's not unable to care for her basic needs.
She's still entitled to all her Constitutional rights because she's done nothing to lose any of them.

Merely because she's schizophrenic doesn't mean she doesn't know what she's doing--what would make you think she's not able to speak about things as she understands them? Or do you hold to the notion that crazy people are somehow subhuman? Do elucidate, as a mentally ill person myself, I'm completely fascinated by your opinion.

Is it really that unreasonable to have some mental competency requirements for speakers at venues like this?



It's really unconstitutional.

Um, yeah, this? Seriously, people?

/at least you didn't say literacy test

Linux_Yes: The My Little Pony Killer: Linux_Yes: Weaver95: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz..

oh look - a lie.


oh, look. someone who's never used Google and done any research on the subject. ignorance truly is bliss, ain't it?

Oh look. Somebody with an agenda.



ok, i take everything back. all Republicans should smoke as much weed as they can. and all mentally ill people should just salute the flag and be a proud american and stop whining about being mentally ill.

see, that was sooo easy!! God i like easy! its so....well......easy. no work required.

For someone who isn't a troll, you sure do dodge every rational refutation like a troll and hone in on only the most inflammatory and unsourced responses like a troll.

You hop-scotched over every single post that debunked the "cause" part of your claim, every statistic showing a rise in pot use and no such rise in schizophrenia, and every quoted study observing a self-medication relationship, not cause-effect.

At least other trolls lead to hilarious Pony memes. You're useless.

Dwight_Yeast: whidbey: How do you know all this sh*t?
You're like Fark's version of Snopes Yeast. :)

I've been mentally ill (as I mentioned upthread) for a long time, and when you're so depressed you can face the world, reading fills the time.

Well despite your obstacles, you've proven to be one of the most reasonable and knowledgeable posters I've had the pleasure of interacting with here. :)

As for Mark Vonnegut's book, I stumbled on it completely by accident a year or so ago in a used bookstore. I picked it up because I love his father's work, and was surprised that Kurt never mentioned his son's problems in his books. It turned out to be an excellent read, but also one which covered several interests of mine: the 60s counterculture, mental illness and the history thereof, and Vonnegut.

I'll have to check it out. I've been aware of the title, but have never had the chance to read it yet.

Eh, she still has a right to speak, and her opinions are still retarded, all knowing she's literally insane changes is that instead of facepalming because she's stupid we facepalm because her caretakers aren't herding her into a socially acceptable context.

Dan the Schman: Linux_Yes: The My Little Pony Killer: Linux_Yes: Weaver95: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz..

oh look - a lie.


oh, look. someone who's never used Google and done any research on the subject. ignorance truly is bliss, ain't it?

Oh look. Somebody with an agenda.



ok, i take everything back. all Republicans should smoke as much weed as they can. and all mentally ill people should just salute the flag and be a proud american and stop whining about being mentally ill.

see, that was sooo easy!! God i like easy! its so....well......easy. no work required.

For someone who isn't a troll, you sure do dodge every rational refutation like a troll and hone in on only the most inflammatory and unsourced responses like a troll.

You hop-scotched over every single post that debunked the "cause" part of your claim, every statistic showing a rise in pot use and no such rise in schizophrenia, and every quoted study observing a self-medication relationship, not cause-effect.

At least other trolls lead to hilarious Pony memes. You're useless.

What do you expect from a guy obsessed with a cumbersome antiquated OS?

Dan the Schman: Linux_Yes: The My Little Pony Killer: Linux_Yes: Weaver95: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz..

oh look - a lie.


oh, look. someone who's never used Google and done any research on the subject. ignorance truly is bliss, ain't it?

Oh look. Somebody with an agenda.



ok, i take everything back. all Republicans should smoke as much weed as they can. and all mentally ill people should just salute the flag and be a proud american and stop whining about being mentally ill.

see, that was sooo easy!! God i like easy! its so....well......easy. no work required.

For someone who isn't a troll, you sure do dodge every rational refutation like a troll and hone in on only the most inflammatory and unsourced responses like a troll.

You hop-scotched over every single post that debunked the "cause" part of your claim, every statistic showing a rise in pot use and no such rise in schizophrenia, and every quoted study observing a self-medication relationship, not cause-effect.

At least other trolls lead to hilarious Pony memes. You're useless.

PsychoTherapist: bugontherug: Unless you believe Ms. Svoboda can't discern right from wrong, or lacks free will, she is still morally responsible for being a bigot. Unless so excused, she deserves to be mercilessly mocked for that reason alone.

I myself suspend judgment. I can say that even schizophrenics usually lose the insanity defense in criminal trials.

Are you really suspending judgement there? Kinda sounds all judge-jury-executionery to me.

Yes.


Upon hearing Ms. Svoboda's anti-gay diatribe, it made perfect sense to mock her for it. Dislike of or "moral objection to" homosexuality is a voluntarily chosen moral defect which should be mocked.¹ Normally, it is presumed people can discern right from wrong, and that they act freely. Hence, given the available information, and that principle, it made sense to conclude Ms. Svoboda was a bad person who deserved public humiliation.

Now, it has been suggested she be excused for schizophrenia. This defense alone is inadequate, but it does call into question whether she in fact can discern right from wrong, and whether she really has free will. Consequently, I've temporarily suspended my prior judgment, and await more information.

Does schizophrenia normally deprive its sufferers of either the capacity to discern right from wrong, or for free will? Can we discern from the publicly available information whether it has done either in her case? If either can be established with the expertise here on Fark, I'll reverse my opinion, and feel guilty. Otherwise, my temporary suspension of judgment will cease, and I'll revert to my original conclusion, guilt free.

¹It may in fact be genetic in some or all cases, in which case investigation into whether it can be cured is warranted. Maybe specialized "boot" style training camps where with professional help, homophobes may learn to overcome their disorder.

L-I-N-U-X goes into the anus, rupturing compatibility with most software.

"Guilt?" Why? Nobody forced her to stand up and dish out the crazy with a giant ladle, she did it all on her own, and has to deal with the consequences as a result. If you don't want your crazy aunt being ridiculed for saying crazy shiat in a public forum, then I suggest you take the time to keep her from saying crazy shiat in a public forum.

Who the Hell lets a woman that is this obviously in need of help wander around without some kind of help? Where the Hell is her family?

I guess libs are supposed to feel guilty for noticing that a crazy person was crazy?

/I know, I know, the real racist is someone who points out that YOU are racist.

Dwight_Yeast: whidbey: How do you know all this sh*t?
You're like Fark's version of Snopes Yeast. :)

I've been mentally ill (as I mentioned upthread) for a long time, and when you're so depressed you can face the world, reading fills the time.

As for Mark Vonnegut's book, I stumbled on it completely by accident a year or so ago in a used bookstore. I picked it up because I love his father's work, and was surprised that Kurt never mentioned his son's problems in his books. It turned out to be an excellent read, but also one which covered several interests of mine: the 60s counterculture, mental illness and the history thereof, and Vonnegut.

Kurt wrote Breakfast of Champions based partly on his understanding of human psychology based on the idea of crazy being a chemical imbalance in the brain. This was around the time Mark was diagnosed as schizophrenic and was being treated with a vitamin cure. It's not about Mark per se but it's the closest thing.to it among KV's books. Haven't read Mark's later one, "Just Like Someone Without Mental Illness Only More So" but it's on that list.

Gee, this is sure an interesting thread.

_{/licks shredded guts off claws}