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(Lincoln Journal Star)   About that "crazy anti-gay lady?" She really is mentally ill, and, interestingly enough, really is a human being. Here comes the liberal guilt, I hope   (journalstar.com) divider line 658
    More: Followup, Jane Svoboda, single room  
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7511 clicks; posted to Politics » on 12 May 2012 at 7:43 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-12 08:28:19 PM  
It's not our fault that the ravings of a crazy women are indistinguishable from the political views of members of the House and Senate.
 
2012-05-12 08:28:20 PM  

Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz..


oh look - a lie.
 
2012-05-12 08:28:24 PM  

ToxicMunkee: Why, as a liberal, am I always told I need to feel guilty?


Well, Republicans sure as hell aren't going to do it.
 
2012-05-12 08:28:33 PM  

Corporate Self: subtil_serpent: Just like libs to pick on someone with a mental disorder just so they can attack conservatives. You should all be ashamed.

Hello? She is saying the same things they do!


Yes, I know I for one am sick of hearing conservatives demand single dorm rooms to stop college girls from getting turned gay or ranting on and on about ruptured intestines and "homiciders".

Face it, this is nothing but an attempt to distract from actual conservative arguments by focusing on some sick woman's ramblings. I'm sure there is a whole Alinsky book dedicated to this tactic.
 
2012-05-12 08:30:55 PM  

smells_like_meat: Censoring people who's politics you don't like by calling them crazy has been a tactic of despots throughout history.


Yes, and some people actually are crazy. Come on, people. I thought liberals were supposed to be the reality-based community. You aren't doing anyone any favors by claiming that this lady's view of the world is just as valid as yours or mine.

F*CK this crazy lady and her ignorant, insane rambling. She belongs in a mental institution.
 
2012-05-12 08:31:12 PM  

James F. Campbell: What does a democracy gain in tolerating evil, ignorant, or crazy people?


1/10

BTW, we're not a democracy we're a republic.
 
2012-05-12 08:31:33 PM  
I missed the boat on the original video, but fark you, submitter. That this woman has a serious mental illness does not excuse the hundreds of thousand if not millions of people who have no such excuse for spouting such lunacy. When your supposedly legitimate opinions are indistinguishable from those of a schizophrenic, maybe you should reconsider your goddamn opinions.

I hope this woman gets help (ironically, shiatmitter, exactly the sort of help conservatives seek to deny people who aren't wealthy).

I hope the people who say equally idiotic things in their anti-gay crusades and don't have the legitimate excuse of mental illness get hit by a farking bus.

/ all that said, those are some pretty messed up statements
// although not far from the farthest right lunacy, they should have at least triggered some alarms, so in MSNBC I am disappoint
/// in the rest I am sadly not surprised, especially not HuffPo which is a haven for idiots
 
2012-05-12 08:31:38 PM  

James F. Campbell: Gyrfalcon: But keeping her out because she's crazy would not be reasonable.

What does a democracy gain in tolerating evil, ignorant, or crazy people?


smells_like_meat: Censoring people who's politics you don't like by calling them crazy has been a tactic of despots throughout history.

 
2012-05-12 08:32:28 PM  

ToxicMunkee: Why, as a liberal, am I always told I need to feel guilty?


I think you've got it a bit mixed up. As a liberal you're capable of feeling guilty. Conservatives are incapable of feeling guilty because, see, they are sociopaths.
 
2012-05-12 08:32:31 PM  
The hell you say! She wasn't the star in that video anyways.
 
2012-05-12 08:32:53 PM  
If you look at the comments on HuffPo, people on the right wing were coming out to defend her before they knew she was schizophrenic.

For real.
 
2012-05-12 08:33:00 PM  

bulldg4life: I really think some of you are getting bent out of shape by people simply questioning why she is talking. It isn't questioning the validity of allowing her to speak and it isn't insinuating all crazy people should be locked up.

However, if her caretakers know that she has this disease, why would you let her get in to this position where she COULD say "crazy" things in an open forum?

Little kids are prone to making ridiculous comments and most people watch them and take the time to watch them to prevent them from doing something embarrassing or stupid.


I'm asking you again in all seriousness: How should they stop her?

She's not considered a danger to herself or others; therefore, she can't be confined against her will. At best, her brother can ASK her not to go around saying embarrassing things, but he has no legal grounds to lock her in the house; that would be false imprisonment, and he would at minimum lose his conservatorship. This lady has every legal right to make a fool of herself if she wants to--she seems to be quite aware of what she's saying, and able to comprehend, for instance, that she only has five minutes to make her statements and that she has to abide by the rules of the forum.

Non-schizophrenic people can get up in front of others and say the exact same things without everyone saying "Oh! why didn't their families stop them!" so why shouldn't she be allowed to do so? Yes, she upset and angered many people: So what? Did she say anything she can be arrested for? No. Did she say anything she can be fined for? No.

Merely because someone is delusional or even psychotic doesn't mean they can't hold opinions, nor should they be protected, somehow, from society's censure. Now that everyone suddenly realizes this woman is mentally ill, they feel bad for holding her in contempt for her nasty views. But why? Because maybe she "doesn't really" think that? Because maybe she "wouldn't really" say things like that if she wasn't crazy? Or what? (Probably because your mother told you a long time ago not to laugh at the crazy man on the corner because he can't help himself)

No, just deal with it. She said some really unpalatable things, and she's ALSO schizophrenic. The schizophrenia made her a little more blunt, perhaps, than a "normal" person might have been, but her views are not any different than any other right-wing fringie's. Her associations are a bit looser, but they're not any weirder than the average poster to Wingnut Daily.

Is that what's got everyone so nervous?
 
2012-05-12 08:33:46 PM  

gilgigamesh: If republicans weren't such an obstacle to health reform, perhaps this woman could get insurance and access to the help she needs.


Won't happen. The Republican base would go extinct.
 
2012-05-12 08:34:30 PM  
FTA: "To me, it shows how little society really cares about people with mental health issues," Patrick Svoboda said."

Hmm... maybe if you didnt let your sister make a fool of herself, we wouldn't be making fun of her... just saying
 
2012-05-12 08:34:58 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Biological Ali: Is it really that unreasonable to have some mental competency requirements for speakers at venues like this?

Yes. Our government doesn't just rule for the sane, and logistically there's no way to sort out the nutters.


My point is basically that if you're not sane to the point of actually being mentally incompetent then not only have you wasted everyone's else's time by not saying anything coherent, but it's also not clear the degree to which you can even appreciate the significance of the exercise you're undertaking (to say nothing of the unwanted attention that you might get from people who hear what you have to say and, not knowing your situation, take it the wrong way). Now it's of course true that the government has to secure the welfare of everyone under its jurisdiction including the mentally incompetent, but allowing them to speak independently at political venues doesn't necessarily make anybody (including them) better off in itself.
 
2012-05-12 08:35:22 PM  
I really don't mean to Goodwin the thread but wasn't there some group who were oppressed, made to wear pink triangles and ultimately exterminated by a duly constituted authority due to the fact that their activities were not "normal"?
 
2012-05-12 08:36:25 PM  

smells_like_meat: BTW, we're not a democracy we're a republic.


I fail to see how your pseudo-intellectual deflection adequately answers the basic problem my question poses. How does our society benefit from tolerating evil, ignorance, or insanity? What good comes from saying that this woman's speech is as good as the next man's?

apoptotic: smells_like_meat: Censoring people who's politics you don't like by calling them crazy has been a tactic of despots throughout history.


I see. So are you saying that society is better off because it tolerates evil, ignorant, and insane people? Or perhaps you don't believe in evil, ignorance, or insanity. Perhaps you're a postmodernist who believes that all ways of looking at the world are just as valid and "good" (whatever that means!) as the next. Perhaps none of these explanations.
 
2012-05-12 08:37:13 PM  

Confabulat: adamgreeney: ToxicMunkee: Why, as a liberal, am I always told I need to feel guilty?

It always amazes me how the Republican party manages to sound like my mother. She loved people to feel guilty over ridiculous things too.

I don't feel guilty, because I'm not a Republican. Those idiots should wake up every day feeling guilty just for their own existence. And yes, it's impossible to tell the difference between a schizophrenic and a Republican. I doubt most mental health professionals can tell the difference in less than an hour or so.


Just ask for a voter registration card. In 44 states, people who are under guardianship can't vote.
 
2012-05-12 08:37:17 PM  

Farker Soze: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.

Yeah, and using linux when you're young greatly increases your chance of being a colossal dork.



maybe it does. but a dork that doesn't have Schizophrenia and one who uses an OS that is infection free, fast as hell, more secure, and no need for disk defrag, etc.

i could go on and on about the advantages over Windblows. but you aren't worth it.
 
2012-05-12 08:37:36 PM  

Gyrfalcon: No, just deal with it. She said some really unpalatable things, and she's ALSO schizophrenic. The schizophrenia made her a little more blunt, perhaps, than a "normal" person might have been, but her views are not any different than any other right-wing fringie's. Her associations are a bit looser, but they're not any weirder than the average poster to Wingnut Daily.


When a legitimately mentally ill person has you invoking Poe's Law, the political group in question might be severely farked up.
 
2012-05-12 08:37:52 PM  

Biological Ali: PonceAlyosha: Biological Ali: Is it really that unreasonable to have some mental competency requirements for speakers at venues like this?

Yes. Our government doesn't just rule for the sane, and logistically there's no way to sort out the nutters.

My point is basically that if you're not sane to the point of actually being mentally incompetent then not only have you wasted everyone's else's time by not saying anything coherent, but it's also not clear the degree to which you can even appreciate the significance of the exercise you're undertaking (to say nothing of the unwanted attention that you might get from people who hear what you have to say and, not knowing your situation, take it the wrong way). Now it's of course true that the government has to secure the welfare of everyone under its jurisdiction including the mentally incompetent, but allowing them to speak independently at political venues doesn't necessarily make anybody (including them) better off in itself.


Stopping them from speaking is more effort than it could possibly be worth. The constitution doesn't magically stop applying to those we view as mentally unfit.
 
2012-05-12 08:38:17 PM  

Gyrfalcon: 'm asking you again in all seriousness: How should they stop her?

She's not considered a danger to herself or others; therefore, she can't be confined against her will. At best, her brother can ASK her not to go around saying embarrassing things, but he has no legal grounds to lock her in the house; that would be false imprisonment, and he would at minimum lose his conservatorship. This lady has every legal right to make a fool of herself if she wants to--she seems to be quite aware of what she's saying, and able to comprehend, for instance, that she only has five minutes to make her statements and that she has to abide by the rules of the forum.


They could stop her by not driving her to the city council meeting, couldn't they? I mean, I'd be pretty worried if she had a driver's license...
I think you are confusing her legal and constitutional rights with the reasonable protections when considering the care of a mentally ill person. Yes, the person who said there should be a mental test before speaking may be wrong, but the rest of us are talking about the reasonable care of an insane person.

Gyrfalcon: Non-schizophrenic people can get up in front of others and say the exact same things without everyone saying "Oh! why didn't their families stop them!" so why shouldn't she be allowed to do so? Yes, she upset and angered many people: So what? Did she say anything she can be arrested for? No. Did she say anything she can be fined for? No.


I'm not sure what this has to do with anything.

Gyrfalcon: Merely because someone is delusional or even psychotic doesn't mean they can't hold opinions, nor should they be protected, somehow, from society's censure. Now that everyone suddenly realizes this woman is mentally ill, they feel bad for holding her in contempt for her nasty views. But why? Because maybe she "doesn't really" think that? Because maybe she "wouldn't really" say things like that if she wasn't crazy? Or what? (Probably because your mother told you a long time ago not to laugh at the crazy man on the corner because he can't help himself)


Well, yes. She has a disease. Yes, crazy people have ideas. However, a reasonable person would probably think that an open forum isn't the best place for a crazy person.

Gyrfalcon: Is that what's got everyone so nervous?


I'm not sure where you get that people are nervous.
 
2012-05-12 08:38:19 PM  

ToxicMunkee: Why, as a liberal, am I always told I need to feel guilty?


Because there is no conservative guilt.
 
2012-05-12 08:39:23 PM  
I'm going to go a a step further: homophobia and fighting against gay rights is a form of mental illness, as it has no basis in logic or reality.
 
2012-05-12 08:39:30 PM  

Weaver95: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz..

oh look - a lie.



oh, look. someone who's never used Google and done any research on the subject. ignorance truly is bliss, ain't it?
 
2012-05-12 08:40:50 PM  
Obvious tag should have outranked the Followup tag.
Even the Fark thread had a lot of people pointing it out.
 
2012-05-12 08:40:59 PM  

vossiewulf: The issue is that it has become extraordinarily difficult to distinguish between someone who is mentally ill and someone who is an honest racist gay-hating tea party GOP Real American™.


They gave the lunatics the mic a long time ago to keep the red vs. blue distraction soap opera going while they rob the country blind.

This especially retarded era of "partisan" politics is the smoke screen thrown up while the looters finish their work and move to Dubai. Everyone seems to be falling for it, too.
 
2012-05-12 08:41:12 PM  

James F. Campbell: So are you saying that society is better off because it tolerates evil, ignorant, and insane people?


FTF relevance, but yes.
 
2012-05-12 08:41:23 PM  
judylobo.files.wordpress.com
oblig
 
2012-05-12 08:41:35 PM  

Counter_Intelligent: It's still okay if we found facepalm guy funny, isn't it? Please let it still be okay if we found facepalm guy funny.


Yeah facepalm guy was funny but you could obviously tell she is mentally ill. That whole thing was basically word salad.
 
2012-05-12 08:41:49 PM  

Linux_Yes: Farker Soze: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.

Yeah, and using linux when you're young greatly increases your chance of being a colossal dork.


maybe it does. but a dork that doesn't have Schizophrenia and one who uses an OS that is infection free, fast as hell, more secure, and no need for disk defrag, etc.

i could go on and on about the advantages over Windblows. but you aren't worth it.


All right, Farker Soze, you asshole - now you've done it.
And please, Linux_Yes - hold that thought - he's not worth it, and you don't need to mention it again! Ever!
Realy!!
 
2012-05-12 08:42:38 PM  

FloydA: Biological Ali: Gyrfalcon: It's really unconstitutional.

How so?

The right to petition the Government for a redress of grievances is part of the First Amendment. As long as she is a citizen, and has not been involuntarily committed, she has the legal right to address her elected officials.

There might be moral and ethical reasons to protect someone with mental health issues from harming herself or others by uncontrolled speech, I won't argue that. But legally, that cannot be done. The Nazis had the right to march in Skokie, the Tea Partiers have the right to stand on the Capital steps and shout the N-word at congressmen, and crazy people have the right to address the city council.


Well yeah, but the Nazis and the Tea Partiers actually have a message that they understand and believe in. If a person is mentally incompetent to the point where they don't understand the significance of what they themselves are saying (which seems to be the excuse being made for this lady after the fact), then it's not clear that there's any redress of grievances going on at all.
 
2012-05-12 08:42:52 PM  

James F. Campbell: F*CK this crazy lady and her ignorant, insane rambling. She belongs in a mental institution.


Reagan took care of that. He cut off Federal mental health funding, which is why people like this women (and the women here in Philly, who wanders around answering public pay phones) wander the streets.

The only thing I feel guilt for is that there was no coverage of mental health issues in the "Obamacare" HCR Act.
 
2012-05-12 08:43:12 PM  

Dinobot: Hmm... maybe if you didnt let your sister make a fool of herself,


How does he prevent her from speaking, assuming that the mental health professionals have not had her institutionalized? Tie her up? Take away her clothes? Give her a stern lecture? He can't. No one can.

If your argument against her position is strong enough, rebut her. Convince your fellow citizens that she's wrong and you're right. Any attempt to gag her is cowardly and shames your beliefs.

BTW, I strongly disagree with her and think she got raisins for eyes (fruitcake). I also don't believe that her words or actions can have any hurt me or mine.
 
2012-05-12 08:43:55 PM  

Linux_Yes: oh, look. someone who's never used Google and done any research on the subject. ignorance truly is bliss, ain't it?


I had forgotten how irritating you can be. You must not have posted for a while.

Weed can indeed exacerbate already present schizophrenic and other personality disorders, but it doesn't directly cause them.
 
2012-05-12 08:44:58 PM  

Linux_Yes: Weaver95: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz..

oh look - a lie.


oh, look. someone who's never used Google and done any research on the subject. ignorance truly is bliss, ain't it?


If you're going to make the claim, the onus is on your to prove it.
 
2012-05-12 08:45:47 PM  
Yeah, but she was right on the money when she said:

"The Middle East is an issue that has plagued the region for centuries."

But I was totally befuddled when she said:

"I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go."
 
2012-05-12 08:46:58 PM  

Noam Chimpsky: But I was totally befuddled when she said:

"I've now been in 57 states -- I think one left to go."


It's an "Obama is stupid" thing
 
2012-05-12 08:47:13 PM  

apoptotic: James F. Campbell: So are you saying that society is better off because it tolerates evil, ignorant, and insane people?

FTF relevance, but yes.


TY for establishing relevance. Child molesters and mass murderers were mysteriously left out.



Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
 
2012-05-12 08:48:16 PM  

Dinobot: Hmm... maybe if you didnt let your sister make a fool of herself, we wouldn't be making fun of her... just saying


Oh, also?

Fark you, you ignorant, self-centered piece of shiat.

Try dealing with a family member that has a serious mental illness. It's not like watching a goddamn dog. It's extraordinarily difficult physically, mentally and emotionally and when you have to do it while also trying to manage a traditional role in our screwed up society, it doesn't take much to wind up leaving your guard down for five minutes which is all it takes for someone without all their "marbles" to go way off the deep end and get into trouble. Try working a regular job to support your own traditional family while also supporting the 24/7 care required for someone with a serious mental illness, running them to and from appointments, and caring for them in the gaps you're not working. Then maybe you'll be qualified to comment on somebody who has actually had to do that in a country that doesn't give a flying fark about any of it and seems at times to go out of the way to make it even harder to help them.

If I could - ITG nonsense be damned - I'd punch you in your two inch dick for making such a stupid comment.
 
2012-05-12 08:49:50 PM  

PonceAlyosha: Stopping them from speaking is more effort than it could possibly be worth. The constitution doesn't magically stop applying to those we view as mentally unfit.


It doesn't have to be about what "we" think at all. I would expect the actual caretakers of people such as this lady to bear the primary responsibility of keeping them out of situations like tehse.
 
2012-05-12 08:50:15 PM  

Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.


[citation needed]

I've read about some of those studies and they all agree on one thing: they can't draw a direct correlation between drug use and mental illness, as the mentally ill frequently self-medicate (and I can personally attest to that).
 
2012-05-12 08:51:00 PM  

Farker Soze: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.

Yeah, and using linux when you're young greatly increases your chance of being a colossal dork.


burn
 
2012-05-12 08:51:04 PM  
ALL bigots are mentally-ill, so f*ck you, subby, in your anus-licking P*E*N*I*S face,
 
2012-05-12 08:51:35 PM  

Linux_Yes: Farker Soze: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.

Yeah, and using linux when you're young greatly increases your chance of being a colossal dork.


maybe it does. but a dork that doesn't have Schizophrenia and one who uses an OS that is infection free, fast as hell, more secure, and no need for disk defrag, etc.

i could go on and on about the advantages over Windblows. but you aren't worth it.


Right, chump. MS-DOS is fast as hell too. You know why? It's 30 farking years old. And lunix is a dinosaur compared to DOS. Unix... LOL. More secure because NO ONE GIVES A DAMN ABOUT IT too. Oh, I found a 'sploit! I can now make slaves of all of the two lunix boxes the entire nation, whoopee. If you'd open your mind and smoke a spliff you might not be such a tired old stick in the mud luddite.
 
2012-05-12 08:51:59 PM  

moralpanic: Linux_Yes: Weaver95: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz..

oh look - a lie.


oh, look. someone who's never used Google and done any research on the subject. ignorance truly is bliss, ain't it?

If you're going to make the claim, the onus is on your to prove it.



get off your duff and go to google and type in Schizophrenia+Marijuana

i don't have to prove anything, other than i'm capable of reading, thinking, and relying on studies done by folks from around the world who know a hell of a lot more than i do on the subject.
 
2012-05-12 08:52:20 PM  

vossiewulf: The issue is that it has become extraordinarily difficult to distinguish between someone who is mentally ill and someone who is an honest racist gay-hating tea party GOP Real American™.


You say this as if there were a difference.
 
2012-05-12 08:54:23 PM  

FloydA: Came here to say this. When a sincere party member cannot be reliably distinguished from a schizophrenic, there is a problem with the party.


When domestic terrorists can't be distinguished from actual liberals, there's a problem with the party.

Because somebody with a mental illness saying something liberals don't like is so much worse than actual liberals trying to blow up a bridge.

What's the problem? You, and plenty of other liberals in this thread, are pretending that this example is clearly an indication of all Tea Party/GOP members, so I see absolutely no reason that I can't equate the actions of 2-5 OWS members to all of liberalism. So all liberals are terrorists and liberal ideas breed terrorism. Do you see how stupid you sound now? You should probably surrender to police immediately since you're a terrorist and all.

This would be why liberals don't have a clue what conservatives think or believe while conservatives know precisely what liberals think and believe. We don't have to delude ourselves in to thinking liberals are something other than what they actually are in order to be against everything they stand for and we don't need to twist and pervert their beliefs in our own minds in order to make what we think seem more acceptable.
 
2012-05-12 08:54:33 PM  

Biological Ali: It doesn't have to be about what "we" think at all. I would expect the actual caretakers of people such as this lady to bear the primary responsibility of keeping them out of situations like tehse.


There's a good point there: there's no reason she shouldn't be allowed to speak in public, so long as someone is there to preface her remarks with an explanation of her particular illness and form of old-fashioned frontier gibberish.
 
2012-05-12 08:55:09 PM  

Farker Soze: Linux_Yes: Farker Soze: Linux_Yes: oh, and weed greatly increases the chances of getting Schizophrenia in young, developing brains. the studies over the last 20 or 30 years show a clear link between weed and schiz.

Yeah, and using linux when you're young greatly increases your chance of being a colossal dork.


maybe it does. but a dork that doesn't have Schizophrenia and one who uses an OS that is infection free, fast as hell, more secure, and no need for disk defrag, etc.

i could go on and on about the advantages over Windblows. but you aren't worth it.

Right, chump. MS-DOS is fast as hell too. You know why? It's 30 farking years old. And lunix is a dinosaur compared to DOS. Unix... LOL. More secure because NO ONE GIVES A DAMN ABOUT IT too. Oh, I found a 'sploit! I can now make slaves of all of the two lunix boxes the entire nation, whoopee. If you'd open your mind and smoke a spliff you might not be such a tired old stick in the mud luddite.



Linux is a clone of UNIX

and you speak of Security??? UNIX is the most secure OS on the planet, dinky. google and learn something.
 
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