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(Washington Post)   Insanity: trying to come up with a competitor to the NFL over and over again and expecting different results. Meet the latest challenger   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 78
    More: Fail, NFL, USFL, Fred Biletnikoff, Hall of Fames, UFL, TV audience, Baltimore Ravens, Hall of Fame receiver  
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3794 clicks; posted to Sports » on 12 May 2012 at 10:27 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-12 04:37:02 PM
What about marketing the fact that instead of taking out a 2nd mortgage to take your family of four to watch an NFL game, you could probably take that same family to a USFL game for $50. Use the minor-league baseball model of affordable family fun.
 
2012-05-12 04:44:19 PM
Bring these uniforms back and I'm on board

i104.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-12 05:22:03 PM
One of my buddy's clients won a USFL Championship. Still wears the ring... it's pretty cool. He also played 4 seasons for a couple NFL teams. Good guy... and has good stories.

The f-ed up part is that my buddy is a drug dealer and this dude buys pain-killers from him by the farking gross.

Don't feel bad for him... he volunteered... but it's pretty amazing how a short pro football career with not much playing time can completely fark somebody up.
 
2012-05-12 05:33:49 PM
This only furthers Roger Goodell's 18 game season cause.

"Well he have guys that play 14 games and come into training camp to play another 16, so why not play 18?"

We will live in a nation of brain dead athletes..... but I guess I just repeated myself.
 
2012-05-12 05:57:46 PM
Football is about two things:

1) Gambling

2) Fantasy football.

Fans aren't going to put money on a Portland Hipsters - Salt Lake City Lamanites game and they won't be poring over rosters to make up their rotisserie team.
 
2012-05-12 06:18:38 PM

Anonymocoso: Football is about two things:

1) Gambling

2) Fantasy football.


No, it isn't.
 
2012-05-12 06:30:35 PM

zamboni: Krymson Tyde: [i306.photobucket.com image 200x150]
[i34.photobucket.com image 150x116]
Bring it on

The LA Express will kick y'all's asses!!!

(reads TFA)

Mmmm... LA cant even get a USFL team this time. Sigh.

/Would be a pretty good place... amarite?
//Once went to a New Orleans Breakers-Memphis Showboats game in the Superdome


Yeah, I think it would be a good place for a team, but thus way you're saved the embarrassment of getting beaten by an Alabama team.
Do you remember one of the old USFL draft things was teams were given geographical preference for players?
Also, you sound old (like me)
 
2012-05-12 07:05:30 PM

Harv72b: You make some excellent points, the one big drawback being that if USFL 2.0 wants to attract these middle-of-the-road college athletes, they'd need to convince them that their league offers a better shot at developing into an NFL'er than the NCAA. That's a pretty tall order, considering college football's track record vs. that of alternate pro leagues.


I largely agree, especially without a track record, but they don't necessarily need to convince high school prospects that they have a better shot: The pitch should be that they have a good enough shot, and in the meantime they can get paid and not put up with the NCAA BS and the "academic eligibility" dog and pony show.

OK, yes, I'm dreaming out loud here.

Looks to me like a haven for undrafted rookie free agents who didn't make the cut in the NFL but aren't ready yet to give up on a pro career...which, again, looks like a subpar product for the fan.

So this raises a serious question that I honestly have no insight into.

Other altFL offerings have indeed been distinctly subpar for the fan, as you say. The XFL didn't die because the media ignored it: it died because the games were badly played and low-scoring. Proof point: half the people who watched the week 1 game didn't come back for week 2. Why is this problem so severe in football? After all, plenty of people watch minor league baseball, with some minor league teams notoriously outdrawing their major league affiliates from time to time. In England, people watch second tier soccer (a.k.a. the Championship) on TV, and live support goes down several tiers. Similarly for other sports.

So is there something peculiar to football that makes it like Longfellow's little girl with the curl: when it's good, it's very, very good; but when it's bad it's horrid?
 
2012-05-12 07:13:04 PM

Anonymocoso: Football is about two things:

1) Gambling

2) Fantasy football.

Fans aren't going to put money on a Portland Hipsters - Salt Lake City Lamanites game and they won't be poring over rosters to make up their rotisserie team.


That was some fine derp. Bravo!
 
2012-05-12 08:11:30 PM

czetie: Seems they are avoiding the obvious big mistakes, including the pomposity and hubris that go with having a Trump or a McMahon involved.

One thing I would really like to see that would improve the game top to bottom: some sort of development league for kids too young for the NFL that doesn't require them to pretend to be going to college, and that allows them openly to make a living from their skills.


Exactly. I'm pretty tired of the charade that college is best for these kids. Let them do what there good at and pay them well for it. Risking a major injury for a couple credit hours towards a communications degree while the universities get millions isn't a fair trade.
 
2012-05-12 08:19:37 PM

Adolf Oliver Nipples: Arena football isn't football. It's something vaguely similar that only slightly resembles the game that I watch every week during the winter months.


Yeah, but it just has more of everything that's good about football (more scoring, more running, more hits, harder hits, more free footballs for fans) and less of everything that sucks about football (punts, running into a pile, teams kneeling out the clock, fair catches).

Has sh*ttier refs, though.

becksellent: Not to threadjack too much here, but I did follow your suggestion and checked out the Pitt/Philly Arena game a while back. :)


If you ever get the chance to go in person, do, it's way more fun in person than it is on TV/UStream.

/unfortunately, Philly is way better than pretty much everyone else in their conference
//I say unfortunately because all the good teams are in my team's division, which means my team won't make the playoffs for the first time in their existence, in all likelihood
 
2012-05-12 11:03:13 PM

czetie: Other altFL offerings have indeed been distinctly subpar for the fan, as you say. The XFL didn't die because the media ignored it: it died because the games were badly played and low-scoring. Proof point: half the people who watched the week 1 game didn't come back for week 2. Why is this problem so severe in football? After all, plenty of people watch minor league baseball, with some minor league teams notoriously outdrawing their major league affiliates from time to time. In England, people watch second tier soccer (a.k.a. the Championship) on TV, and live support goes down several tiers. Similarly for other sports.

So is there something peculiar to football that makes it like Longfellow's little girl with the curl: when it's good, it's very, very good; but when it's bad it's horrid?


I've only been to one non-NFL pro football game in my life, a CFL game back when Baltimore didn't have an American team. That said, my hunch would be that minor league baseball offers a ton of schedule flexibility for the casual fan who decides on a whim to take in a game, and of course that minor league baseball tickets are dirt cheap (in many cases, cheaper than going to a movie). I don't know what AFL teams charge for admission now, nor of course what the USFL2 will, but I imagine that it will be more expensive than a AA game, and with fewer games on the schedule there isn't as much room for a spur-of-the-moment decision to head over to the stadium to catch one.

As much as anything, it could just be psychological. The United States is pretty much set on the concept of there only being one professional football league, while we have a long history of multiple pro baseball organizations. That, combined with a much lower average cost of admission to lure the casual fan to a game, give baseball an edge when it comes to lower-level professional competition.

/I went and did a quick check on StubHub for AFL tickets. I see a lot of price variance between teams/cities, but for the most part you're looking at over $20/ticket. Without any promotion, you can generally get at least two minor league baseball tickets for that price (and probably much better seats to boot).
 
2012-05-12 11:05:43 PM

Harv72b: /I went and did a quick check on StubHub for AFL tickets. I see a lot of price variance between teams/cities, but for the most part you're looking at over $20/ticket. Without any promotion, you can generally get at least two minor league baseball tickets for that price (and probably much better seats to boot).


StubHub is silly to go to for a sport where no arena is full - you can get $10 tickets pretty much anywhere. And then move up because there won't be anyone in front of you in most places.
 
2012-05-12 11:10:25 PM

IAmRight: StubHub is silly to go to for a sport where no arena is full - you can get $10 tickets pretty much anywhere. And then move up because there won't be anyone in front of you in most places.


I'll have to take your word for it. I did see tickets as low as $7 for one team, but only two teams had any listed below $21.
 
2012-05-12 11:18:10 PM
No cities with a current NFL franchise

Then they'll have a team in Cleveland?

Awesome!
 
2012-05-12 11:20:15 PM

Harv72b: I'll have to take your word for it. I did see tickets as low as $7 for one team, but only two teams had any listed below $21.


It's also somewhat easy to get discounted tickets if you try - just become friends with players on facebook. Also, lots of teams have promo deals - 4 seats, 4 hot dogs/sodas, 40 bucks.

/of course, the team I worked for had $560 season tickets for the most expensive seats (9 game season, so roughly $60/game, and you're all but guaranteed a game ball at some point, you are on top of the action, sometimes plays might even come into your lap, you are sometimes within a couple of feet of the coach/QB as they're giving the plays...it's a pretty cool experience.
//also, mandatory autograph sessions after every game
 
2012-05-12 11:57:20 PM
What's the point?

You already have the NCAA as a prospect development league and the CFL as an overflow league for borderline NFLers.

Not sure another league is needed. If you want to watch football in the NFL offseason, watch the CFL.
 
2012-05-13 03:02:05 AM

Doc Daneeka: You already have the NCAA as a prospect development league


Yeah, but like they're child molesters.
 
2012-05-13 03:02:38 AM

HaywoodJablonski: Open it up to 18-year-olds and pay them. Beat the NCAA at its own game


this poses absolutely zero threat to college football, hth
 
2012-05-13 03:43:51 AM
So here is the way I think something like this would work. The big hole would be whether there are enough ex-NCAA players to support the idea. Get rid of any idea of a draft. Create teams that are mirrors of the bigger college programs. Like you actually have the Ohio State Buckeyes (or the Ohio Buckeyes if legal issues are prohibitive). Some arbitrary percentage, say 70% would actually be made of ex-OSU players. Could you talk enough college players in key programs to buy-in?
 
2012-05-13 08:25:25 AM

Doc Daneeka: You already have the NCAA as a prospect development league


You know how I know you didn't read the thread?

The NCAA is a cesspit of corruption: recruiting violations, under-the-table payments, bogus academic eligibility, a ticking clock of limited eligible years and a book of loopholes... excuse me, I mean rules... that gets longer and more baroque with every season. And the only real rule in the NCAA is "whatever you can get away with".

On top of that, the competition in the NCAA is crap. The system is set up to encourage schools to schedule relatively few competitive match-ups. And then at the end of every season you have the laughable bowl season.

But these are only symptoms: the root of the NCAA problem is that it's the only (realistic) path to the pro game. If somebody is a good football player but has no aptitude for or interest in college, they have to go along with this sham. And if somebody is on the fringe of the NFL -- maybe a later developer, maybe didn't get a shot in college just because of who was ahead of them, maybe somebody a team could really use as injuries pile up during the season -- once they exhaust their college eligibility, there is nowhere for them to play, stay fit and match-sharp, and show off their skills. Instead, if they drop off the NFL rosters, they fall off a cliff and are bagging groceries.

And on top of all that: The NCAA doesn't work as a developmental league because players can't move up and down between the NCAA and the NFL the way they can between, say, MLB and AAA ball. You're in NCAA until your body is ready for the rigors of pro ball, and after that you're either in the NFL or you're nowhere.

See the problem?
 
2012-05-13 09:40:31 AM

czetie: Doc Daneeka: You already have the NCAA as a prospect development league

You know how I know you didn't read the thread?

The NCAA is a cesspit of corruption: recruiting violations, under-the-table payments, bogus academic eligibility, a ticking clock of limited eligible years and a book of loopholes... excuse me, I mean rules... that gets longer and more baroque with every season. And the only real rule in the NCAA is "whatever you can get away with".

On top of that, the competition in the NCAA is crap. The system is set up to encourage schools to schedule relatively few competitive match-ups. And then at the end of every season you have the laughable bowl season.

But these are only symptoms: the root of the NCAA problem is that it's the only (realistic) path to the pro game. If somebody is a good football player but has no aptitude for or interest in college, they have to go along with this sham. And if somebody is on the fringe of the NFL -- maybe a later developer, maybe didn't get a shot in college just because of who was ahead of them, maybe somebody a team could really use as injuries pile up during the season -- once they exhaust their college eligibility, there is nowhere for them to play, stay fit and match-sharp, and show off their skills. Instead, if they drop off the NFL rosters, they fall off a cliff and are bagging groceries.

And on top of all that: The NCAA doesn't work as a developmental league because players can't move up and down between the NCAA and the NFL the way they can between, say, MLB and AAA ball. You're in NCAA until your body is ready for the rigors of pro ball, and after that you're either in the NFL or you're nowhere.

See the problem?


So do what they do in hockey.

Teenagers can either play NCAA, or they can play in major junior pro leagues where they get paid. Each has advantages and disadvantages. It's a good system.
 
2012-05-13 10:35:43 AM

Doc Daneeka: Teenagers can either play NCAA, or they can play in major junior pro leagues where they get paid. Each has advantages and disadvantages. It's a good system.


It sounds like it, and it's more or less precisely what I'm advocating. College for those that genuinely want it, an alternative for those that don't.

One of the issues with football is that it is such an intensely physical game, you really can't have "junior" players safely playing against fully developed adults. I know next to nothing about hockey, but suspect that it may be similar, if not quite as extreme?
 
2012-05-13 11:10:35 AM

czetie: Doc Daneeka: Teenagers can either play NCAA, or they can play in major junior pro leagues where they get paid. Each has advantages and disadvantages. It's a good system.

It sounds like it, and it's more or less precisely what I'm advocating. College for those that genuinely want it, an alternative for those that don't.

One of the issues with football is that it is such an intensely physical game, you really can't have "junior" players safely playing against fully developed adults. I know next to nothing about hockey, but suspect that it may be similar, if not quite as extreme?


Junior leagues are age restricted. 16-20 years old.
 
2012-05-13 12:15:26 PM

Doc Daneeka: So do what they do in hockey.

Teenagers can either play NCAA, or they can play in major junior pro leagues where they get paid. Each has advantages and disadvantages. It's a good system.


Which would mean you now support this league and see the necessity.
 
2012-05-13 01:08:02 PM

SharkTrager: Doc Daneeka: So do what they do in hockey.

Teenagers can either play NCAA, or they can play in major junior pro leagues where they get paid. Each has advantages and disadvantages. It's a good system.

Which would mean you now support this league and see the necessity.


If you ever wanted to see a light bulb come on in slow motion.........
 
2012-05-14 11:13:15 AM

Krymson Tyde: [i306.photobucket.com image 200x150]
[i34.photobucket.com image 150x116]
Bring it on


Are people actually going to show up at Legion Field? Have it at Regions Park and maybe, just maybe, the mullet nation will accept them in this "if you're not college football and you don't have an A or a AU on your helmet then we don't want you" state.

/Weagle
 
2012-05-14 11:45:41 AM

Anonymocoso: Football is about two things:

1) Gambling

2) Fantasy football.

Fans aren't going to put money on a Portland Hipsters - Salt Lake City Lamanites game and they won't be poring over rosters to make up their rotisserie team.


Run along, men are talking.
 
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