FARK.com: (7101814) ABC's long-mothballed series "Pan Am" unexpectedly wins TV award in Europe, where Europeans see its retro styling as embodiment of long-vanished American optimism, taste and sophistication

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		ABC's long-mothballed series "Pan Am" unexpectedly wins TV award in Europe, where Europeans see its retro styling as embodiment of long-vanished American optimism, taste and sophistication (deadline.com)		52
		More: Strange, Pan Am, Europe, Europeans, Americans, sony tv, Sons Of Anarchy, American TV, period drama

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robohobo		2012-05-12 07:34:21 AM

KellyLockhart		2012-05-12 07:39:10 AM

"Coffee, tea or me?" Yes, please.

cdn.screenrant.com

AverageAmericanGuy		2012-05-12 07:43:35 AM

"American taste and sophistication"

Right... Even in bygone eras, this has never been a stereotype of Americans.

Unless you're using "American" as an ironic pejorative, in which case it's kind of insulting.

HotIgneous Intruder		2012-05-12 07:45:44 AM

It's also the embodiment of meddling in other countries' business and unfettered military-industrial complex growth. And pointy titties.

digistil		2012-05-12 07:57:23 AM

KellyLockhart: "Coffee, tea or me?" Yes, please.

[cdn.screenrant.com image 570x300]

Christ, the brunette that isn't Ricci has jaw dropping good looks. More of her please.

/Ricci isn't bad either.

HotIgneous Intruder		2012-05-12 07:59:02 AM

To Europeans, watching Pan Am is probably like Americans watching the Royal Tenenbaums. That time is gone.

Ceiling Moran		2012-05-12 08:07:15 AM

I'll just leave this here:

Genius in France.

T-Servo		2012-05-12 08:15:04 AM

As much as I love flying (as a pilot), and as much as I'm nostalgic about the good 'ole days of airlines and luxury 707s... I could never get into this show. I think the 20-something pilots seemed a bit implausible for Clippers.

And was not too fond of the CGI, either. Really, ABC, 707s are still flying and it would've been a great promo to paint one in Pan Am colors again.

/off my lawn

B.L.Z. Bub		2012-05-12 08:16:20 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: It's also the embodiment of meddling in other countries' business and unfettered military-industrial complex growth. And pointy titties.

The airline industry is part of the military-industrial complex?

KellyLockhart		2012-05-12 08:33:47 AM

digistil: Christ, the brunette that isn't Ricci has jaw dropping good looks. More of her please.

Her name is Karine Vanasse, and she's not only smoking, but has a fantastically sexy French-Canadian accent.

www3.pictures.zimbio.com

There's plenty more just an image search away.

Guntram Shatterhand		2012-05-12 10:16:13 AM

HotIgneous Intruder: It's also the embodiment of meddling in other countries' business and unfettered military-industrial complex growth. And pointy titties.

I can see where the Europeans in question are coming from: it was a time where Americans were enjoying innovation and the general attitude was optimism. But that optimism rode a wave of egoism that got us '70s apathy, '80s greed, '90s speculation, and the '00s fear and delusion. In the course of fifty to sixty years we went from a lucky nation that was taking advantage of an unique economic situation to a nation of pathetic retardation and delusion that can't get anywhere close to examining its own bias.

It's a good aesthetic, but the reality beyond that is a harsh reality that the optimism portrayed leaves no room for. And the kick back to that reality is soul-shattering.

rka		2012-05-12 10:29:12 AM

Guntram Shatterhand: HotIgneous Intruder: It's also the embodiment of meddling in other countries' business and unfettered military-industrial complex growth. And pointy titties.

I can see where the Europeans in question are coming from: it was a time where Americans were enjoying innovation and the general attitude was optimism. But that optimism rode a wave of egoism that got us '70s apathy, '80s greed, '90s speculation, and the '00s fear and delusion. In the course of fifty to sixty years we went from a lucky nation that was taking advantage of an unique economic situation to a nation of pathetic retardation and delusion that can't get anywhere close to examining its own bias.

It's a good aesthetic, but the reality beyond that is a harsh reality that the optimism portrayed leaves no room for. And the kick back to that reality is soul-shattering.

And we're about to get 6 months of two politicians trying to convince us that they are the man to take us back to those "good old days" and back to that optimism.

UCFRoadWarrior		2012-05-12 10:32:47 AM

Europeans like it because most Euro airlines (except the discount ones) still offer real flight service. Americans are now so used to "This 6 hr flight to Los Angeles will not be serving food" on all airlines that Pan Am doesn't resonate with anyone young anymore

SharkTrager		2012-05-12 10:35:16 AM

It was good for eye candy and nothing more. The plots were terrible.

kyuzokai		2012-05-12 10:46:43 AM

UCFRoadWarrior: Europeans like it because most Euro airlines (except the discount ones) still offer real flight service. Americans are now so used to "This 6 hr flight to Los Angeles will not be serving food" on all airlines that Pan Am doesn't resonate with anyone young anymore

I flew to Japan recently and booked my ticket with JAL, even though it was about $300 more expensive than an American carrier. When asked why, my response was "The flight attendants are attentive, extremely pleasant, and usually smoking hot. The passengers are quiet, polite, and fit between the armrests. Add decent food and the availability of free sake to the list, and it seems like a no-brainer."

digistil		2012-05-12 10:51:43 AM

UCFRoadWarrior: Europeans like it because most Euro airlines (except the discount ones) still offer real flight service. Americans are now so used to "This 6 hr flight to Los Angeles will not be serving food" on all airlines that Pan Am doesn't resonate with anyone young anymore

SO MUCH THIS. As an American, my first experience on a non-American airline was a revelation. Paying a little bit more gets me an experience that I actually look forward to.

For example, even on a 45 minute flight from London to Amsterdam, one gets a light sandwich or snack (such as yogurt and granola), along with a choice of any drinkS (including all alcohol, except champagne which is extra)... in economy and at no extra charge. And the stewards smile, are polite, helpful, etc (i.e. proper customer service).

digistil		2012-05-12 10:52:47 AM

KellyLockhart: digistil: Christ, the brunette that isn't Ricci has jaw dropping good looks. More of her please.

Her name is Karine Vanasse, and she's not only smoking, but has a fantastically sexy French-Canadian accent.

[www3.pictures.zimbio.com image 377x594][www2.pictures.zimbio.com image 377x594]

There's plenty more just an image search away.

thx!

VictoryCabal		2012-05-12 11:08:36 AM

Pan Am was beautiful to look at, and just because of the hot chicks. But sweet merciful crap, did that show suck.

HotIgneous Intruder		2012-05-12 11:12:45 AM

B.L.Z. Bub: The airline industry is part of the military-industrial complex?

Just a sub-category, really.
A test bed, if you will.
Transporting sheep(le) isn't really that profitable, but the stealth bombers, tankers, JDAMs, and drones are the real profit centers.

You aren't really this naive, are you?

ExperianScaresCthulhu		2012-05-12 11:16:43 AM

kyuzokai: UCFRoadWarrior: Europeans like it because most Euro airlines (except the discount ones) still offer real flight service. Americans are now so used to "This 6 hr flight to Los Angeles will not be serving food" on all airlines that Pan Am doesn't resonate with anyone young anymore

I flew to Japan recently and booked my ticket with JAL, even though it was about $300 more expensive than an American carrier. When asked why, my response was "The flight attendants are attentive, extremely pleasant, and usually smoking hot. The passengers are quiet, polite, and fit between the armrests. Add decent food and the availability of free sake to the list, and it seems like a no-brainer."

Did you personally pay for that ticket, or did someone else?

ExperianScaresCthulhu		2012-05-12 11:22:37 AM

digistil: UCFRoadWarrior: Europeans like it because most Euro airlines (except the discount ones) still offer real flight service. Americans are now so used to "This 6 hr flight to Los Angeles will not be serving food" on all airlines that Pan Am doesn't resonate with anyone young anymore

SO MUCH THIS. As an American, my first experience on a non-American airline was a revelation. Paying a little bit more gets me an experience that I actually look forward to.

For example, even on a 45 minute flight from London to Amsterdam, one gets a light sandwich or snack (such as yogurt and granola), along with a choice of any drinkS (including all alcohol, except champagne which is extra)... in economy and at no extra charge. And the stewards smile, are polite, helpful, etc (i.e. proper customer service).

That's nice, but *why* is it different? It's not enough just to say there are differences. My understanding of US airlines is that they aren't really making money but the competition is so fierce that they have to make undercut themselves to keep being the choice of flyers who look at dollar signs and not amenities.

Also, is the problem of American weight (both physically and with the amount of luggage brought on) real, or fake? Do non-US airlines not have to deal with people's weight causing publically unmentionable costs, or is that (again) fake?

Why are non-US airlines able to offer that other stuff?

ExperianScaresCthulhu		2012-05-12 11:24:17 AM

kyuzokai		2012-05-12 11:36:42 AM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: kyuzokai: UCFRoadWarrior: Europeans like it because most Euro airlines (except the discount ones) still offer real flight service. Americans are now so used to "This 6 hr flight to Los Angeles will not be serving food" on all airlines that Pan Am doesn't resonate with anyone young anymore

I flew to Japan recently and booked my ticket with JAL, even though it was about $300 more expensive than an American carrier. When asked why, my response was "The flight attendants are attentive, extremely pleasant, and usually smoking hot. The passengers are quiet, polite, and fit between the armrests. Add decent food and the availability of free sake to the list, and it seems like a no-brainer."

Did you personally pay for that ticket, or did someone else?

I paid, and would do it again. Mind you, I've flown JAL a few times and am banking some miles. The whole trip was gonna cost me $2-3k, so why quibble over $300? Especially when the flight is around 12 hours.

Apos		2012-05-12 11:49:27 AM

Christina Ricci deserves FAR better than this snooze fest.

digistil		2012-05-12 12:04:06 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: That's nice, but *why* is it different? It's not enough just to say there are differences. My understanding of US airlines is that they aren't really making money but the competition is so fierce that they have to make undercut themselves to keep being the choice of flyers who look at dollar signs and not amenities.

Well, non-US airlines generally charge more money for 'equivalent' tickets. I think (at least a major portion) of the problem is American airlines believe Americans choose on price alone. And while that may be true, I blame American airlines for not challenging that. In the US, airlines seem to push a culture of 'Just get there.' Outside the US, the culture seems to be 'Get there well.' The difference (and what makes it worth the price difference, IMHO) is that I don't dread my next flight (instead, like I said previously, I look forward to it). That is why I have ZERO problem paying 5% - 15% more, and I'm not in the minority.

Bottom line, I think Americans have been brought up to expect flying to be a bad experience and thus should pay as little as possible (Walmart effect?); but it doesn't have to be that way.

bingethinker		2012-05-12 12:59:11 PM

SharkTrager: It was good for eye candy and nothing more. The plots were terrible.

This. The plotlines they were using, they should have been an afternoon soap opera.

The_Sponge		2012-05-12 01:05:24 PM

SharkTrager: It was good for eye candy and nothing more. The plots were terrible.

Bingo.

So it would appear that many people in Europe fail to see this show for what it really is.....a poorly written show that tried to cash in on the popularity of "Mad Men".

SIde note:

For an awesome show that is part of the nostalgia genre, I highly recommend "Magic City" on Starz.

Pfighting Polish		2012-05-12 01:14:38 PM

In a weird sort of way, this makes sense to me. Let me put it in this context:

cdn.screenrant.com

... essentially equals ...

mos.totalfilm.com

... with only slightly better writing and plots, nominally based on the fact that the show is set in the 60's and flight attendants then were considered to be part of a slightly higher strata of society than lifeguards of the 90's, meaning you have to incorporate some international intrigue, politics, etc.

Other retro shows -- Mad Men, I'm looking at you -- yes, have a hot chick here and there, but aren't centered around hot chicks and have pretty detailed plots and concepts, which might be confusing or difficult to translate into other languages. Yes, the chicks are there, but they're kind of on the side, relatively speaking, whereas Pan Am is centered around them.

If you think about it that way, the shows really speak the same language: Here's a lot of hot chicks to stare at while they wear hot outfits and do a bunch of different things, many of which are sexy. That's generally been an international formula for success.

TV's Vinnie		2012-05-12 01:28:16 PM

We went from this:
3.bp.blogspot.com

to this:

We can't blame the airlines completely. Yes, they cut quality and service (they never should have stopped calling stewardesses "stewardesses"), but also the slobbish mentality of the average AmeriTard. It's no wonder that airliners became Greyhound buses with wings.

And yes, I actually do blame thirty years of republicanism for this decline in America. They talk the talk about "bringing America back to greatness", but in reality all they have done was diminish the quality of life of everyone who isn't a billionaire, while at the same time empowering every racist hillbilly retard out there into "thinking" that they are the New Master Race.

You can almost see the direct cut-off point from January 1981, when Reagan was sworn in.

digistil		2012-05-12 01:47:41 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: KellyLockhart: digistil: Christ, the brunette that isn't Ricci has jaw dropping good looks. More of her please.

Her name is Karine Vanasse, and she's not only smoking, but has a fantastically sexy French-Canadian accent.

[www3.pictures.zimbio.com image 377x594][www2.pictures.zimbio.com image 377x594]

There's plenty more just an image search away.

She's got Pippa buttaface but to each their own.

Know how I know you're blinder than a dead bat in a block of concrete?

www.poupounes.com

The_Sponge		2012-05-12 02:03:33 PM

TV's Vinnie: And yes, I actually do blame thirty years of republicanism for this decline in America. They talk the talk about "bringing America back to greatness", but in reality all they have done was diminish the quality of life of everyone who isn't a billionaire, while at the same time empowering every racist hillbilly retard out there into "thinking" that they are the New Master Race.

TV's Vinnie		2012-05-12 02:27:12 PM

The_Sponge: TV's Vinnie: And yes, I actually do blame thirty years of republicanism for this decline in America. They talk the talk about "bringing America back to greatness", but in reality all they have done was diminish the quality of life of everyone who isn't a billionaire, while at the same time empowering every racist hillbilly retard out there into "thinking" that they are the New Master Race.

[i904.photobucket.com image 451x339]

Want to know how I know you weren't born before 1980?

T-Servo		2012-05-12 02:41:00 PM

How do you explain the fat people? Explain the fat people.

LewDux		2012-05-12 02:43:28 PM

T-Servo: TV's Vinnie: And yes, I actually do blame thirty years of republicanism for this decline in America. They talk the talk about "bringing America back to greatness", but in reality all they have done was diminish the quality of life of everyone who isn't a billionaire, while at the same time empowering every racist hillbilly retard out there into "thinking" that they are the New Master Race.

You can almost see the direct cut-off point from January 1981, when Reagan was sworn in.

[movieactors.com image 482x326]
How do you explain the fat people? Explain the fat people.

I can explain fat people:
3.bp.blogspot.com

TV's Vinnie		2012-05-12 03:00:48 PM

T-Servo		2012-05-12 03:09:11 PM

TV's Vinnie: HFCS, brah. It wasn't in everything like it is now.

Wow, and no joke, that can be blamed on Reagan, too:
"In 1982 President Ronald Reagan signed off on legislation that imposed rigorous limits on sugar imports, and sales of high fructose corn syrup skyrocketed." source

Oafmeel		2012-05-12 03:58:24 PM

TV's Vinnie: We went from this:
to this:

We can't blame the airlines completely. Yes, they cut quality and service (they never should have stopped calling stewardesses "stewardesses"), but also the slobbish mentality of the average AmeriTard. It's no wonder that airliners became Greyhound buses with wings.

And yes, I actually do blame thirty years of republicanism for this decline in America. They talk the talk about "bringing America back to greatness", but in reality all they have done was diminish the quality of life of everyone who isn't a billionaire, while at the same time empowering every racist hillbilly retard out there into "thinking" that they are the New Master Race.

You can almost see the direct cut-off point from January 1981, when Reagan was sworn in.

I blame the decline of smoking as a socially acceptable activity.
/non smoker

Man On A Mission		2012-05-12 04:15:39 PM

TV's Vinnie: We went from this: [photo of insanely high-priced first class travel] to this: [other end of the bell curve, coach class, discount airline]

That's not even apples to oranges, that's more like apples to anvils. Total fail in trying to compare one era to another.

The reality is that first class travel today is not nearly as different as it was 45 years ago, while coach has seen services cut in half at the same time prices (adjusted for inflation) have been cut by almost 80%, so the net gain is actually better -- with one major negative difference: space between seats rows. That has decreased by nearly half a foot in the past four decades and is a major source of irritation for all passengers over 5'5".

Stinkyy		2012-05-12 04:42:13 PM

Man On A Mission: TV's Vinnie: We went from this: [photo of insanely high-priced first class travel] to this: [other end of the bell curve, coach class, discount airline]

That's not even apples to oranges, that's more like apples to anvils. Total fail in trying to compare one era to another.

The reality is that first class travel today is not nearly as different as it was 45 years ago, while coach has seen services cut in half at the same time prices (adjusted for inflation) have been cut by almost 80%, so the net gain is actually better -- with one major negative difference: space between seats rows. That has decreased by nearly half a foot in the past four decades and is a major source of irritation for all passengers over 5'5".

I saw the comparison as representative of the decline in American "optimism, taste and sophistication", so I don't really get the total fail comment.

The_Sponge		2012-05-12 04:47:44 PM

TV's Vinnie: The_Sponge: TV's Vinnie: And yes, I actually do blame thirty years of republicanism for this decline in America. They talk the talk about "bringing America back to greatness", but in reality all they have done was diminish the quality of life of everyone who isn't a billionaire, while at the same time empowering every racist hillbilly retard out there into "thinking" that they are the New Master Race.

[i904.photobucket.com image 451x339]

Want to know how I know you weren't born before 1980?

I was born in 1978, so keep farking that chicken.

TV's Vinnie		2012-05-12 05:01:12 PM

The_Sponge: TV's Vinnie: The_Sponge: TV's Vinnie: And yes, I actually do blame thirty years of republicanism for this decline in America. They talk the talk about "bringing America back to greatness", but in reality all they have done was diminish the quality of life of everyone who isn't a billionaire, while at the same time empowering every racist hillbilly retard out there into "thinking" that they are the New Master Race.

[i904.photobucket.com image 451x339]

Want to know how I know you weren't born before 1980?

I was born in 1978, so keep farking that chicken.

Two years of sweet Freedom before the iron boot of conservatism came down.

A time when torture was still illegal, it wasn't shameful to care about the poor, and there was at least some minimal enforcement of Wall Street.

You were barely out of your potty pants before you happily donned your Reagan Jugend uniform, I guess.

T-Servo		2012-05-12 05:39:15 PM

Man On A Mission: That's not even apples to oranges, that's more like apples to anvils. Total fail in trying to compare one era to another.

The reality is that first class travel today is not nearly as different as it was 45 years ago, while coach has seen services cut in half at the same time prices (adjusted for inflation) have been cut by almost 80%, so the net gain is actually better -- with one major negative difference: space between seats rows. That has decreased by nearly half a foot in the past four decades and is a major source of irritation for all passengers over 5'5".

Certain things have certainly been lost, even from the 1990s. In Europe, SAS, BA and SwissAir used to be kick-ass airlines, had excellent meals, and it felt like luxury to fly them (in coach). The US never had the same standards, but certain airlines like MidWest Express used to be awesome and cheap. Champagne, 2 x2 leather seats, great meals. etc.

ScreamingHangover		2012-05-12 05:46:39 PM

T-Servo: Man On A Mission: That's not even apples to oranges, that's more like apples to anvils. Total fail in trying to compare one era to another.

The reality is that first class travel today is not nearly as different as it was 45 years ago, while coach has seen services cut in half at the same time prices (adjusted for inflation) have been cut by almost 80%, so the net gain is actually better -- with one major negative difference: space between seats rows. That has decreased by nearly half a foot in the past four decades and is a major source of irritation for all passengers over 5'5".

Certain things have certainly been lost, even from the 1990s. In Europe, SAS, BA and SwissAir used to be kick-ass airlines, had excellent meals, and it felt like luxury to fly them (in coach). The US never had the same standards, but certain airlines like MidWest Express used to be awesome and cheap. Champagne, 2 x2 leather seats, great meals. etc.

That's because they were heavily subsidized by their respective governments. I remember flying Lufthansa during the '80s and it was glorious. The situation has since changed. If you want real first class treatment these days, look to Asia: JAL and Singapore Airlines. However, you're going to pay for it.

Klopfer		2012-05-12 05:48:25 PM

Pfighting Polish: Other retro shows -- Mad Men, I'm looking at you -- yes, have a hot chick here and there, but aren't centered around hot chicks and have pretty detailed plots and concepts, which might be confusing or difficult to translate into other languages.

Mad Men is quite popular in Europe, too.

T-Servo		2012-05-12 05:50:01 PM

ScreamingHangover: If you want real first class treatment these days, look to Asia: JAL and Singapore Airlines. However, you're going to pay for it.

Yeah, I flew biz class on Singapore a few months ago.

And Midwest Express wasn't subsidized, it was just good.

ScreamingHangover		2012-05-12 05:58:50 PM

T-Servo: And Midwest Express wasn't subsidized, it was just good.

Yeah, but the market has spoken and consumers prefer the cheap stuff with no frills. We had a similar situation out here with Aloha Airlines (Hawaii): great airline, great service, but it got undercut by the discount carriers and is no more.

T-Servo		2012-05-12 06:07:33 PM

Hey, I remember Aloha. We flew them from Orange County to HNL the last day they served free mai-tais.

Lsherm		2012-05-12 10:45:22 PM

TV's Vinnie: The_Sponge: TV's Vinnie: The_Sponge: TV's Vinnie: And yes, I actually do blame thirty years of republicanism for this decline in America. They talk the talk about "bringing America back to greatness", but in reality all they have done was diminish the quality of life of everyone who isn't a billionaire, while at the same time empowering every racist hillbilly retard out there into "thinking" that they are the New Master Race.

[i904.photobucket.com image 451x339]

Want to know how I know you weren't born before 1980?

I was born in 1978, so keep farking that chicken.

Two years of sweet Freedom before the iron boot of conservatism came down.

A time when torture was still illegal, it wasn't shameful to care about the poor, and there was at least some minimal enforcement of Wall Street.

You were barely out of your potty pants before you happily donned your Reagan Jugend uniform, I guess.

He's young, I'm old, you're old, and you're farking retarded if you're pretending the "good old days of flying" didn't discriminate against the poor, minorities, and even the middle class. As in, you're just as stupid as the goddamn Republicans you think ruined the flying experience. There was no such thing as "flying off for a weekend" in the old days because it was so damn expensive to fly.

Until the 80's, every airline had a government-agreed monopoly on service, and the prices reflected that. Less people flew in the 50's, 60's and 70's because they couldn't farking afford to fly. Flying was still a rarity for most people until competition broke the prices free.

So which one are you? Not old and lying? Limousine liberal who doesn't understand that poor people need to fly, too? Or total jackass who thinks he shouldn't have to share a plane with someone who will spend their last 300 dollars to get home for a funeral but doesn't have the money to pay for a family dinner on a plane like in your original picture?

As bad as flying commercial has become, the "race to the bottom" has opened up the option of flying to everyone of every economic class. That is an enormous societal benefit. See all the thin white people in your "good old days" picture? Are you racist, bigoted, or just an asshole? Do you know who you sound like?

Skr		2012-05-13 05:25:21 AM

A moment of silence for the mourning of Ricci's breast reduction.

...

Thank you, you may continue.

digistil		2012-05-13 06:20:22 AM

The_Sponge: TV's Vinnie: The_Sponge: TV's Vinnie: And yes, I actually do blame thirty years of republicanism for this decline in America. They talk the talk about "bringing America back to greatness", but in reality all they have done was diminish the quality of life of everyone who isn't a billionaire, while at the same time empowering every racist hillbilly retard out there into "thinking" that they are the New Master Race.

[i904.photobucket.com image 451x339]

Want to know how I know you weren't born before 1980?

I was born in 1978, so keep farking that chicken.

Wow, you really showed him!! What's next, you've seen a picture of Paris and therefore are an expert on travel there?

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