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(MSNBC)   Facebook co-founder can tell you how much US citizenship is worth   (bottomline.msnbc.msn.com) divider line 82
    More: Dumbass, U.S. citizenship, Facebook, Facebook co-founder, Eduardo, Eduardo Saverin, U.S. taxes, Wall Street Journal, NASDAQ Stock Market  
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3590 clicks; posted to Business » on 11 May 2012 at 3:40 PM (3 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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vpb [TotalFark]
2012-05-11 03:14:37 PM  
That's fine. For everyone who wants to leave there are thousands of well educated people who want to come come here.
 
2012-05-11 03:32:23 PM  
Foreigners view of America is: 'come here, make your fortune, then get out.' In this case, just before it gets taxed.

Because we all know higher tax rates lead to higher tax revenue, only. No way raising taxes drives people like this guy (and his tax revenue) abroad. No way lowering taxes attracts people like this guy (and their tax revenue) to our shores.
 
2012-05-11 03:34:34 PM  
Freedom isn't free. No, there's a hefty f*ckin' fee. And if you don't throw in your buck-oh-five, who will?
 
2012-05-11 03:47:14 PM  
Still going to pay a hefty exit fee there, Eduardo.
 
2012-05-11 03:49:45 PM  
So does he get deported now?
 
2012-05-11 03:53:35 PM  
Cool. Now seize his assets under the Patriot Act. Terrorists use facebook to send messages. Therefore, Facebook support terrorism.
 
2012-05-11 03:54:57 PM  
Land of opportunity and fark you, I got mine

wellbye.jpg
 
2012-05-11 03:55:07 PM  
You know, that's a dick move. Come to America, make your fortune, and leave it in order to avoid taxes on the fortune you made while in America. Good riddance!
 
2012-05-11 03:57:56 PM  

Mike Chewbacca: You know, that's a dick move. Come to America, make your fortune, and leave it in order to avoid taxes on the fortune you made while in America. Good riddance!


He's not going to avoid ALL the taxes. In fact, he'll get screwed because the exit fee takes into account all of your stock holdings, whether they have been sold or not. He's not getting away scot free.
 
2012-05-11 03:58:51 PM  

SlothB77: Foreigners view of America is: 'come here, make your fortune, then get out.' In this case, just before it gets taxed.

Because we all know higher tax rates lead to higher tax revenue, only. No way raising taxes drives people like this guy (and his tax revenue) abroad. No way lowering taxes attracts people like this guy (and their tax revenue) to our shores.


You are an idiot.

Singapore's tax rate on capital gains is zero.

Facebook should haul him back into court again.
 
2012-05-11 03:59:16 PM  
FTFA: Singapore does not have a capital gains tax.

There we go... All of the "fiscal conservatives" here could renounce their citizenship and move to Singapore. It sounds perfect for them.
 
2012-05-11 04:02:01 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Still going to pay a hefty exit fee there, Eduardo.


Yeah, and lord help him if they use his estimated worth.
 
2012-05-11 04:04:39 PM  
If he was from Brazil and mostly came to America to go to school/ make money

well he got what he wanted, seems he wants somehting else now.

/Tax 'em good and let him go
 
2012-05-11 04:05:09 PM  

meat0918: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Still going to pay a hefty exit fee there, Eduardo.

Yeah, and lord help him if they use his estimated worth.


They will. They'll count every single holding he has and then tax him on it. Doesn't matter if he never sells it.
 
2012-05-11 04:06:53 PM  

Pants_Optional: So does he get deported now?


Are you going to read the article now?
 
2012-05-11 04:08:51 PM  

Fark Me To Tears: There we go... All of the "fiscal conservatives" here could renounce their citizenship and move to Singapore. It sounds perfect for them.


Wait until they learn that the government holds interest in companies that make up 60% of their GDP.
 
2012-05-11 04:09:56 PM  
Not what it used to be.

Just remember: after WWII, the US had 20,000 tons of gold.

Now the government only claims to have 6000, but they can't even prove they have that much.

I'm hoping we have at least 1,000.
 
2012-05-11 04:18:58 PM  

SlothB77: Foreigners view of America is: 'come here, make your fortune, then get out.' In this case, just before it gets taxed.


Well, I wouldn't say make your fortune, but a big problem is that people of all economic classes come to the US and then send their cash abroad, effectively taking that money out of the US economy while taking advantage of it. Fairly common thing for Central and South American immigrants to do.

Now, from what I've heard, this is also a problem in Europe, where poorer Eastern Europeans can move into higher wage paying Western European countries freely because of the EU immigration policies and effectively do the same thing sending their money back home.
 
2012-05-11 04:24:02 PM  

vpb: For everyone who wants to leave there are thousands of well educated dirt poor people with no education, 19 kids, and nothing to contribute who want to come come here because they know they can file a tax return and defraud the EITC and get a $1,000 refund for each child they have. Oh and free education and health care.


FTFY.
 
2012-05-11 04:35:21 PM  

SlothB77: Because we all know higher tax rates lead to higher tax revenue, only. No way raising taxes drives people like this guy (and his tax revenue) abroad. No way lowering taxes attracts people like this guy (and their tax revenue) to our shores.


I think it's more the complexity of the tax code, rather than the rates themselves, which drives people out.

If taxes could be simplified (and not in a naive Cainesque way) it would make life considerably easier for a lot of people and make it more likely to keep people like this gentleman as US citizens even if they need to end up paying the same amount of tax.

On a somewhat related note, US citizens living abroad are required to file US taxes even if they legally reside in a foreign country, and have to pay US income tax on income above a certain limit (I think it's about $95,000/year if I recall correctly) even if they didn't earn any of that money in the United States.

For example, I'm a US citizen who moved to Switzerland for graduate school (they happen to offer the type of research that I'm interested in, have a good program, etc.). I get paid peanuts to be a research assistant and owe income tax to the Swiss government. Fair enough: I'm living and working here, use public transport, etc. I still need to file my US tax forms, even though my US taxes are essentially zero, even though I'm not residing there.

There's actually a fair number of Americans living here who have married a Swiss person, settled down, raised a family, integrated into the culture, etc. Many have acquired dual citizenship. Since the cost of living and wages paid tend to be much higher than the US and exceed the $95,000 limit, many of them end up owing US income taxes on their wages that they earned in Switzerland. My understanding is that the majority of countries in the world only apply taxes on residents, not citizens living abroad. There's a few of people here that I know who are considering renouncing (or have already renounced) their US citizenship because dealing with international tax issues is such a massive hassle and they intend to live permanently here.

While I find Switzerland to be a beautiful country with nice people I don't think I'd ever quite fit in here culturally or linguistically. My plan is to finish a PhD then move either back to the US or to Canada: proximity to family and friends in North America is important. Canada and the US have a lot of tax-related treaties that make living as a US citizen in Canada a bit more simple than living in Switzerland.

/recommendation: if you have the chance to study abroad, do it. It's a very cool experience.
 
2012-05-11 04:57:52 PM  

bhcompy: SlothB77: Foreigners view of America is: 'come here, make your fortune, then get out.' In this case, just before it gets taxed.

Well, I wouldn't say make your fortune, but a big problem is that people of all economic classes come to the US and then send their cash abroad, effectively taking that money out of the US economy while taking advantage of it. Fairly common thing for Central and South American immigrants to do.

Now, from what I've heard, this is also a problem in Europe, where poorer Eastern Europeans can move into higher wage paying Western European countries freely because of the EU immigration policies and effectively do the same thing sending their money back home.


Who then in turn purchase goods and services at WalMex (Walmart of Mexico) or any other good imported from the USA.

It's a circle, check the trading partner of every Latin America country; the US is #1 to all of them.
 
2012-05-11 04:59:59 PM  

heypete: If taxes could be simplified (and not in a naive Cainesque way) it would make life considerably easier for a lot of people and make it more likely to keep people like this gentleman as US citizens even if they need to end up paying the same amount of tax.


I think most people agree on that, including a lot of people who work for the IRS. However, as long as the tax preparation industry continues to profit handsomely from today's complicated tax code, any effort to simplify the tax code is going to meet heavy opposition.
 
2012-05-11 05:00:44 PM  
I thought it was a buck-oh-five.
 
2012-05-11 05:02:06 PM  
Funny. Our troops can't renounce their "voluntary" service--you can volunteer to get in but good luck getting out with mandatory call-backs--but these citizens who care more about their money than they do about their country can take off any time.

Let's just show these guys the door. You renounce your citizenship, buh-bye.
 
2012-05-11 05:03:39 PM  
Just raise the exit tax to 25% of your total net worth. That and a ban on visiting the US for 5-10 years will stop people from renouncing for tax reasons.
 
2012-05-11 05:06:12 PM  

Carth: Just raise the exit tax to 25% of your total net worth. That and a ban on visiting the US for 5-10 years will stop people from renouncing for tax reasons.


How do you calculate net worth? Its impossible. The exit tax is an income tax on anything you made in the US.
 
2012-05-11 05:07:07 PM  

anfrind: heypete: If taxes could be simplified (and not in a naive Cainesque way) it would make life considerably easier for a lot of people and make it more likely to keep people like this gentleman as US citizens even if they need to end up paying the same amount of tax.

I think most people agree on that, including a lot of people who work for the IRS. However, as long as the tax preparation industry continues to profit handsomely from today's complicated tax code, any effort to simplify the tax code is going to meet heavy opposition.


Yes, all ~700,000 of us CPAs and EAs. That's some heavy opposition there.

The largest company in the country, H&R Block, doesn't handle the types of returns that you would call complicated. Those are reserved for the professional firms like mine. And I can assure you that we are not profiting handsomely from the tax code. It's as much of a headache for us as it is for everyone else. We just choose to endure the headache for money.
 
2012-05-11 05:09:26 PM  

gingerjet: Carth: Just raise the exit tax to 25% of your total net worth. That and a ban on visiting the US for 5-10 years will stop people from renouncing for tax reasons.

How do you calculate net worth? Its impossible. The exit tax is an income tax on anything you made in the US.


No, it isn't. It utilizes the mark to market rules for the day before your renunciation. It includes all holdings, whether sold or held.

"The first main provision is a tax on the "deemed sale" of all your assets the day before expatriation. In other words, you are taxed on the mark-to-market net gain of all your assets.

For the mark-to-market tax, you calculate as if you had sold all your assets on the day before expatriation. You have to pay tax on the theoretical profit which that sale would have given you."

So it's not on net worth in the traditional sense, but it's most certainly not "an income tax on anything you made in the US."
 
2012-05-11 05:33:29 PM  
Good luck ever coming back. That's a question on immigration forms "have you ever renounced your citizenship for tax evasion purposes." Hopefully he thought it through. If he comes here and works (even in his own business) he'll need a visa....and they'll ask that question. If he comes to visit, he'll need a visa (or at least an inspection by CBP and possibly not admitted.)
 
2012-05-11 05:40:10 PM  

EmmaLou: Good luck ever coming back. That's a question on immigration forms "have you ever renounced your citizenship for tax evasion purposes." Hopefully he thought it through. If he comes here and works (even in his own business) he'll need a visa....and they'll ask that question. If he comes to visit, he'll need a visa (or at least an inspection by CBP and possibly not admitted.)


He's a billionaire.

He can get an "investors" green card and that's it.
 
2012-05-11 05:44:54 PM  
JOB CREATORS
 
2012-05-11 05:52:19 PM  
It's absolutely asinine. I don't make anything in the USA. I don't live in the USA. I have to file every year with the IRS. Once I start making a certain amount of money I have to pay farking US taxes. I want to open a business but I am seriously considering renouncing if it starts to become successful. Like hell I want to pay taxes to the US government when they have NO part in it. I am all for paying your fair share, but why does the US gov't get a cut of money that never once touches America?
 
2012-05-11 06:00:23 PM  
There needs to be an 'exit tax' on ALL monies leaving the U.S., including those Western Union transfers back home to Mexico.
 
2012-05-11 06:13:08 PM  

bentley57: There needs to be an 'exit tax' on ALL monies leaving the U.S., including those Western Union transfers back home to Mexico.


And then the Mexican goverment will set tariffs on US Goods.

I'm really surprised nobody sees that latin america immigrants sending money to their countries is a GOOD thing. US companies export goods to these countries and are sold for a hefty profit. Think what would happen if those families can't purchase those US imported goods
 
2012-05-11 06:30:40 PM  
Nice, eh? "Fark you, I got mine" in action.
 
2012-05-11 06:37:43 PM  

maq0r: bentley57: There needs to be an 'exit tax' on ALL monies leaving the U.S., including those Western Union transfers back home to Mexico.

And then the Mexican goverment will set tariffs on US Goods.

I'm really surprised nobody sees that latin america immigrants sending money to their countries is a GOOD thing. US companies export goods to these countries and are sold for a hefty profit. Think what would happen if those families can't purchase those US imported goods


Some goods are cheaper, some aren't, but the cost of living is much less, so less gets recirculated anyways.

Plus, they can't set a tariff on US goods because of NAFTA.. a completely exit tax I don't know how that will work with NAFTA though. Cash isn't trade
 
2012-05-11 06:37:43 PM  
What's with all this exit tax bullshiate about.. Money is private property and an exit tax is taxing money thats already been taxed. It's farking lame. If a guy wants to take his money elsewhere he should have the right to do so...period.
 
2012-05-11 06:42:00 PM  
the rich love their money more than their country?

I'm.......shocked.
 
2012-05-11 06:48:52 PM  

Forgot_my_password_again: the rich love their money more than their country?

I'm.......shocked.


The guy was born in Brazil to a Brazilian family. The only reason he moved to this country when he was 10 is his dad got rich so as a child he was put on a kidnapping list for people who kidnap to extort a ransom from rich families.

He lived here for 17 years before moving to singapore in 2010.

But 17 out of 29 years makes him a U.S. American through and through right? And he should have complete and total dedication to "his" country.
 
2012-05-11 07:07:18 PM  
Well, My friend Mike in Brazil thinks Eduardo may have made a wise decision. Yea, that Mike!
 
2012-05-11 07:19:56 PM  

ScouserDuck: Forgot_my_password_again: the rich love their money more than their country?

I'm.......shocked.

The guy was born in Brazil to a Brazilian family. The only reason he moved to this country when he was 10 is his dad got rich so as a child he was put on a kidnapping list for people who kidnap to extort a ransom from rich families.

He lived here for 17 years before moving to singapore in 2010.

But 17 out of 29 years makes him a U.S. American through and through right? And he should have complete and total dedication to "his" country.


Yeah, it's not like there are tangible benefits to being a US citizen, such as not having to flee the country to protect your children from extortionary kidnappers or anything...


Oh, wait.

/I can't believe you typed the first sentence and didn't connect a SINGLE dot in your head...
 
2012-05-11 07:36:02 PM  

Goodfella: Not what it used to be.

Just remember: after WWII, the US had 20,000 tons of gold.

Now the government only claims to have 6000, but they can't even prove they have that much.

I'm hoping we have at least 1,000.


You can thank these douchebags for taking all of it
www.viceland.com
 
2012-05-11 07:44:37 PM  
If he kept his Brazilian citizenship and is a dual citizen he does not have to pay the exit tax.
 
2012-05-11 08:03:08 PM  
SlothB77:

i39.tinypic.com
Foreigners view of America is: 'come here, make your fortune, then get out.' In this case,
just before it gets taxed.

Because we all know higher tax rates lead to higher tax revenue, only. No way raising taxes
drives people like this guy (and his tax revenue) abroad. No way lowering taxes attracts
people like this guy (and their tax revenue) to our shores.

i43.tinypic.com

If he stayed, he'd enjoy lower tax rates than under Clinton and Reagan, and an even lower capital gains rate.

There will always be tiny and/or shiatty countries out there that can undercut the mainstream first world.
 
2012-05-11 08:19:57 PM  

SlothB77: Because we all know higher tax rates lead to higher tax revenue, only. No way raising taxes drives people like this guy (and his tax revenue) abroad. No way lowering taxes attracts people like this guy (and their tax revenue) to our shores.


Yep, come here, profit by the most free, most honest economy in the world, then check out before contributing your fair share even though taxes are some of the lowest in the world. He can leave, but he sounds like your typical rich American to me and he'll never lose that, no matter where he goes.

/BTW, don't chew gum in public
 
2012-05-11 08:26:25 PM  

EmmaLou: Good luck ever coming back. That's a question on immigration forms "have you ever renounced your citizenship for tax evasion purposes." Hopefully he thought it through. If he comes here and works (even in his own business) he'll need a visa....and they'll ask that question. If he comes to visit, he'll need a visa (or at least an inspection by CBP and possibly not admitted.)


This isn't tax evasion, it's tax avoidance. And tax avoidance is legal.
 
2012-05-11 09:05:22 PM  

Pants_Optional: So does he get deported now?


He lives in Singapore and is originally from Brazil.
 
2012-05-11 09:13:58 PM  
Another reason to like Mark Cuban, he has no problem paying his taxes. Actually enjoys having a big tax bill.
 
2012-05-11 09:41:36 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Another reason to like Mark Cuban, he has no problem paying his taxes. Actually enjoys having a big tax bill.


In a sick, twisted way, that makes sense. If I have to pay a lot of taxes, that means I made a lot of money. I would like to pay a lot of taxes some day.

\got a refund again this year.
 
2012-05-11 09:46:53 PM  

gingerjet: Fark Me To Tears: There we go... All of the "fiscal conservatives" here could renounce their citizenship and move to Singapore. It sounds perfect for them.

Wait until they learn that the government holds interest in companies that make up 60% of their GDP.


And that they've got so many rules governing social conduct that you can't fart in public without getting ticketed.

And that they have universal, socialized healthcare and a first rate welfare program for citizens.
 
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