Mouser: whidbey: Mouser: And this is why the so-called "gay rights" movement will never succeed.

Actually, it is a real movement. Nothing "so-called" about it.

Racial minorities won their civil rights victories by appealing to the Christian values of whites and showed how racial prejudice was incompatible with those values. "Gay rights" activists want these same people to turn a blind eye to their Christian values to give the gays a free pass.


Neither movement strove to "convince" others. It took actual legislation to make the bigots comply with the Constitution.

Thanks for playing.

And who do you think passed that legislation? Christian men who could no longer reconcile what their faith taught them with what their culture did. Faith won, and the bigots lost.

Faith is not on the side of the gays here.

If your faith tells you to demonize, discriminate, and try to destroy people because they're consenting adults who love each other who happen to have the same genitals, then it's time to throw that misguided, evil, filthy "faith" away and start actually using your brain.

"Faith" also says we should execute people who eat shrimp, wear blended fabrics, and menstruate without hiding themselves in the wilderness. "Faith" demands that unbelievers be slaughtered and their lands and goods taken. People use their "Faith" to justify all sorts of evils. The two parts of their "Faith they like to ignore and forget are "Love your neighbor as you love yourself and me" and "Judge not, let you yourself be judged; there is no greater judge than I". There's also the little matter of this nation's Constitution stating "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal".

Don't preach to us about "Faith". When you actually follow it the way God wanted you to, then you can talk.

BooCollins: the media treats it like it is topic number 1.

I know Boo but let's not forget how the GOP has used the Gay community as a whipping post over and over for political gain, to appease their base.
I myself am done with it. They should be spanked and the time has come.
Obama is using their own tactics against them. It's a political game and it's about time to dominate the chess board and come out swinging.
Don't give me this crap about all of the sudden social issues are shelving the economic issues. The GOP started this with their invisible war on women.
They get what they deserve and I hope the Obama campaign comes out with all thrusters engaged. They certainly have the fuel for it.

vudukungfu: Interesting how for 40 years, I've spent summer vacation in NC, spending last summer a few thousand dollars of my own on the local economy.
You're loss for the rest of my life, NC.
I'll be spending it elsewhere.
I'm probably not the richest or only tourist you'll lose over this, too,
and I'm not going to tirade and call you a bunch of inbred, hillbilly, white trash, rascist, tarrheeled, uneducasted, ignorant, assholes. I don't have to. You do that quite nicely every time you open your toothless, drawling, boiled peanut eating, cottonpickin' yaps.
Heh...and for 40 years you chose to spend your free time with those hillbillies.

BooCollins: And look, a subject that is almost irrelevant to 3/4 of the population takes to the forefront again in an election year to distract folks. This of course if more important than our deficit, lousy schools, high energy prices, horrible infrastructure, high unemployment, out of control illegal immigration and many other things. Love how every 4 years this comes out and although it is truly insignifcant compared to many of the huge problems we have, the media treats it like it is topic number 1.

Yeah, it's not like people are incapable of seeing, thinking of, or doing more than one thing at a time. Sorry you're incapable of multi-tasking, don't project your inadequacies on the rest of us.

/"Stop talking about civil rights! I only want you to talk about what I want to hear!"

Keizer_Ghidorah: Don't preach to us about "Faith". When you actually follow it the way God wanted you to, then you can talk.

A-Effing Men to that entire post.

ciberido: b3x: wtf, i really don't see why they want to get married anyways. is filing jointly really that much of an incentive?

Perhaps watching the story of Shane Crone and Tom Bridegroom might make it a little clearer.

This story is more a tale about how important it is to have a will, and very little to do about marriage.

JDAT: "Tyranny of the majority" huh? Look Comrade, I'm sure you have this wonderful idea in your head about how if we just gave everything to the government to decide and rule over us without the tyrannical majority getting in the way then everything would be copacetic but I've got news for you, History has shown that to be a terrible option.

Have you ever met an actual liberal?

You seem to think that liberals are the tyranical authoritarians in this picture desiring big government interference.

You couldn't be more wrong.

What is it with RWers and projection?

Also.. Comrade? WTF? The red scare rhetoric you employ hasn't been anything but a joke for decades now.

You're swinging at ghosts. Grow the fark up.

Opposing the tyranny of anti-family, anti-marriage, anti-civil rights bigots is the right thing to do and you simply can not make a rational argument against it.

Wanting government to be more fair, more just and more efficient does not mean wanting bigger and bigger government.

That LWers desire bigger government is a RW lie that's been repeated to you over and over again until you believed it.

No matter how many times you repeat a lie, it remains a lie.

Learn this.

I'm not sure about gay marriage. I'm tolerant of all people. Respect all people. But politicians and media. I'm sick to farking death of hearing about this. Pass it or don't but STFU. My favorite show should be called The Gaily Show, as they haven't spoke of anything else of substance on a month.
Get on with it!

quatchi: That LWers desire bigger government is a RW lie that's been repeated to you over and over again until you believed it.

THIS
is the most important message to get. The GOP has been mouthing this BS as a canticle for the righteous.
It's a LIE.
Big government is their baby, without discipline nurture and compassion, babies become monsters.

Proteios1: as they haven't spoke of anything else of substance on a month.
Get on with it!

Look I understand your dislike for the overload, but unless you've had the shiat beat out of you with a baseball bat for being queer, or had your military career derailed by some vengeful fark that didn't like being rejected, then you have no idea of just how significant this issue is.
I am tired of being demonized by the GOP base and it's about GDM time our president came out in our favor.

The hyperbole from the right has fed hate against Gays year after year, only for votes.
When leadership supports oppression it signals a green light to the crazies that it is acceptable to cause harm and hinder the well being of queers. How is that an American value? How is that not significant enough to fight against?

Seems JDAT flew the coop without answering a single question put to him.
Hmmm.

I'm out. English darts at the queer pub an all. Good beer, maybe a lil romance of the booby kind later.
You guys have fun.

Scorpio Rex: Carn: I think we should at least make the exception for hot lesbians.

No no no! Don't take the hot ones out of circulation for the male population. It is quite possible they may repent/unconvert and become available to me.

(I almost got through that with a straight face.)

Ok fine, we'll have a quota. 50% can be married.

And 25% of the butter faces.

/Going to hell

The good thing is that, no matter their legal marital status, they are an evolutionary dead-end.

alcoholwasinvolved: The good thing is that, no matter their legal marital status, they are an evolutionary dead-end.

If that was true, then straight people wouldn't be making them.

ciberido: Lady Beryl Ersatz-Wendigo: WTF who the hell boils peanuts?

Apart from the Deep South, including North Carolina, boiled peanuts are big in China, Central and South America, Ghana, and Nigeria. If you've never lived in any of those areas, granted, the idea of boiling peanuts might seem strange.

Another thing sorta popular in North Carolina is to drop peanuts into RC Cola. It's a Southern thing.

I haven't dropped peanuts into Cola since in nearly thirty years. I don't generally drink soft drinks.

I've loved boiled peanuts as far back as I can remember. There is a little Vietnamese restaurant a few miles from my home that sells hot boiled peanuts and cold, fresh pressed sugar cane juice. I love it, but I made the mistake of walking from their to my doctors' office once. He came into the little examining room and I was sitting there munching salty as heck peanuts and slurping down sugar cane juice. I got a lecture and it threw off the blood tests.

JDAT: smeegle: JDAT: smeegle: JDAT: You sound like a socialist. Only a socialist would have such disdain for Democracy.

WTF? Socialist?
Firstly, ack, here we go again, this great country of ours is not a true Greek inspired Democracy, we are a Democratic Republic.
There is no pure form of Socialism, just systems with different levels of socialist properties, like safety nets.
If you can't wrap your brain around why letting the majority decide upon the rights of minorities, is a very bad idea; then you are either stupid or willful.

...with an agenda.

I'd say Greece has more Socialistic characteristics than a lot of countries, yet you look to them as an example? Especially at this time when you see their economic system in total collapse.

For one who hates this country so much as to look to others for an example you sure have picked a loser.

Wow, you have a major deficit in your reading comprehension.
Obviously you don't get that I was pointing out that true Democracy began in Greek society. That was my example to answer your misguided perception of Democracy.

You never bothered to respond to my other point regarding the tyranny of the majority. I'm going to take that as denial and projection from a dumb ass with an agenda.

"Tyranny of the majority" huh? Look Comrade, I'm sure you have this wonderful idea in your head about how if we just gave everything to the government to decide and rule over us without the tyrannical majority getting in the way then everything would be copacetic but I've got news for you, History has shown that to be a terrible option.

Great, sad Nelly, he's unfamiliar with the "tyranny of the majority" reference. Smeegle, you are talking over his head.

For this reason (idolatry) God gave them over to regarding passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. . . .and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. -Romans 1:26-32

God votes NO on homosexuality and gay marriage. And HIS vote is the ONLY vote that counts. And He will NEVER change His vote.

tony41454: For this reason (idolatry) God gave them over to regarding passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. . . .and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. -Romans 1:26-32

God votes NO on homosexuality and gay marriage. And HIS vote is the ONLY vote that counts. And He will NEVER change His vote.

God can shove it up his ass. If he's going to be pissy about me loving another man then he's no God of mine. If he was so concerned about it (and all the other stuff that makes him cry), then why doesn't he wave his omnipotent hand and fix it? He's the one who farked everything up in the first place by leaving the tree in the garden with two beings with no concept of right or wrong.

And again, why so obsessed with only the supposedly anti-gay stuff and completely ignore all of the other passages telling you to kill people for eating shrimp, wearing mixed fabrics, shaving, menstruating in public, and planting more than one crop in the same field? God wouldn't be happy with you picking and choosing which of his commands to follow.

/fark anyone who supports hatred, bigotry and oppression, nothing but vile evil worms

tony41454: For this reason (idolatry) God gave them over to regarding passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. . . .and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. -Romans 1:26-32

God votes NO on homosexuality and gay marriage. And HIS vote is the ONLY vote that counts. And He will NEVER change His vote.

as long as you want to take those words verbatim... you might want to check this out:
Link

/By definition, nothing that happens in nature is unnatural.
//Pet peeve of mine when people don't understand that.

Keizer_Ghidorah: tony41454:
And again, why so obsessed with only the supposedly anti-gay stuff and completely ignore all of the other passages telling you to kill people for eating shrimp, wearing mixed fabrics, shaving, menstruating in public, and planting more than one crop in the same field? God wouldn't be happy with you picking and choosing which of his commands to follow.

This

kilgore_troutsniffer: tony41454: For this reason (idolatry) God gave them over to regarding passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. . . .and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. -Romans 1:26-32

God votes NO on homosexuality and gay marriage. And HIS vote is the ONLY vote that counts. And He will NEVER change His vote.

as long as you want to take those words verbatim... you might want to check this out:
Link

/By definition, nothing that happens in nature is unnatural.
//Pet peeve of mine when people don't understand that.

"B-B-But, but, but, humans aren't animals! We're special because God made us in His image! How dare you make us as lowly as the beasts God created for us to rule over!"

/did God create Man in his image, or did Man create God in his image?
//wish we were made in Quetzacoatl's image, being a winged serpent would be biatchin'

downstairs: Mrtraveler01: I went to the Mardi Gras parade in Mandeville (home of David Duke) and saw a lot more confederate flags being flown than any other flags, especially on the back of pickup trucks.

I don't disbelieve you, but when was this? Mandeville is a bland, pristine suburb now. Its the last place I'd imagine seeing a confederate flag.

This year.

downstairs: No one in the 'burbs would fly a confederate flag. But all hell breaks loose if a colored family moves on the block.

Who invented "white flight"?

Touche.

So I guess we can agree that the South is just as racist as the North except the South is more open about it?

Why haven't lawyers like this said "Yes" to same sex marriage so they can make even more money.

Mad_Radhu: Mrtraveler01: Example of the "enlightened" South:

I went to the Mardi Gras parade in Mandeville (home of David Duke) and saw a lot more confederate flags being flown than any other flags, especially on the back of pickup trucks.

Now don't get me wrong, I love NOLA but there are a lot of flaws about the South, especially when you leave Orleans Parrish.

I don't know, they were completely cordial to the Top Gear team when they visited the south:

[anlaaria.files.wordpress.com image 300x168]

You realize that was heavily edited and nothing actually happened right? Yeah I know it's Alabama and Alabama is mostly a backwards shiathole, but anybody who couldn't see the obvious editing just didn't want to.

tony41454:

Trapped in a world he never made.

whidbey: tony41454:

Trapped in a world he never made.



"Hey, we don't want that asshole here!"

tony41454: God votes NO on homosexuality and gay marriage. And HIS vote is the ONLY vote that counts. And He will NEVER change His vote.

Tell you what, prove that this supposed god of your mythology is real. Until you can do that its vote does not not count.

Also, assuming that this supposed god of yours is real, he did change his mind on a lot of things. Or did your forget the whole new testament book that replaced the old testament?

Gyrfalcon: kilgore_troutsniffer: tony41454: For this reason (idolatry) God gave them over to regarding passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error. . . .and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them. -Romans 1:26-32

God votes NO on homosexuality and gay marriage. And HIS vote is the ONLY vote that counts. And He will NEVER change His vote.

as long as you want to take those words verbatim... you might want to check this out:
Link

/By definition, nothing that happens in nature is unnatural.
//Pet peeve of mine when people don't understand that.

Marriage is practiced by no other creature in nature except humans. Therefore, it cannot possibly be natural. Thus, it is UN-natural, and should not be practiced by humans, that is, if we're not supposed to be practicing "unnatural" functions.

Right?

Oh really? Only humans get married?



:-D

/Image is Hot! Hot! Hot!

Keizer_Ghidorah: God can shove it up his ass. If he's going to be pissy about me loving another man then he's no God of mine. If he was so concerned about it (and all the other stuff that makes him cry), then why doesn't he wave his omnipotent hand and fix it? He's the one who farked everything up in the first place by leaving the tree in the garden with two beings with no concept of right or wrong.

This is where you are wrong. adam and eve knew right from wrong, but for some reason that upset god. Look at it this way. According to they bible god told adam and eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and they obeyed him. We do not know for how long, but they certainly obeyed his command. But, that was not good enough for god. adam and eve were obedient to god and that upset him. So what does he do? He lets the serpent in to sow doubt and tempt eve into eating the fruit, and she then tempted adam. Why would a god get so upset that his command was being followed that he would let the devil into his garden to corrupt his only two worshipers? And surely god would have known that the serpent was entering into the garden and did nothing to stop it! And we can assume he knew that the devil was sneaking, because if the devil was able to hide his actions from god then that would mean that the devil is more powerful than god. Either way, god is a huge farking douche bag.

Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: God can shove it up his ass. If he's going to be pissy about me loving another man then he's no God of mine. If he was so concerned about it (and all the other stuff that makes him cry), then why doesn't he wave his omnipotent hand and fix it? He's the one who farked everything up in the first place by leaving the tree in the garden with two beings with no concept of right or wrong.

This is where you are wrong. adam and eve knew right from wrong, but for some reason that upset god. Look at it this way. According to they bible god told adam and eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and they obeyed him. We do not know for how long, but they certainly obeyed his command. But, that was not good enough for god. adam and eve were obedient to god and that upset him. So what does he do? He lets the serpent in to sow doubt and tempt eve into eating the fruit, and she then tempted adam. Why would a god get so upset that his command was being followed that he would let the devil into his garden to corrupt his only two worshipers? And surely god would have known that the serpent was entering into the garden and did nothing to stop it! And we can assume he knew that the devil was sneaking, because if the devil was able to hide his actions from god then that would mean that the devil is more powerful than god. Either way, god is a huge farking douche bag.

Also how he decides to destroy all of his creation because of one species making him sad, and he only spared it because of one man and his family (though he still destroys nearly all land-based life anyways just to wipe out humans, was snapping your finger and making them poof out of existence too boring?). Then he purposefully screws around with Pharaoh, who several times was ready and willing to let the slaves go, but God hardened his heart so that he could heap more shiat on Pharaoh and Egypt, and it was only the blood of first-born that finally appeased God into letting Pharaoh let the slaves go (and them he made Pharaoh a dick again so he could chase after the slaves and get swamped). And then the business with Abraham and Isaac, dude you're omnipotent, why do you need to test someone's faith, especially by making him kill his only son? And bears slaughtering children, destroying two cities because people were having fun, poor Job...

Remind me why people worship this monster?

Carn: I think we should at least make the exception for hot lesbians. I think we can find common ground there. We'll work on the rest later.

you expecting to receive a honeymoon video

Keizer_Ghidorah: Mock26: Keizer_Ghidorah: God can shove it up his ass. If he's going to be pissy about me loving another man then he's no God of mine. If he was so concerned about it (and all the other stuff that makes him cry), then why doesn't he wave his omnipotent hand and fix it? He's the one who farked everything up in the first place by leaving the tree in the garden with two beings with no concept of right or wrong.

This is where you are wrong. adam and eve knew right from wrong, but for some reason that upset god. Look at it this way. According to they bible god told adam and eve not to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge, and they obeyed him. We do not know for how long, but they certainly obeyed his command. But, that was not good enough for god. adam and eve were obedient to god and that upset him. So what does he do? He lets the serpent in to sow doubt and tempt eve into eating the fruit, and she then tempted adam. Why would a god get so upset that his command was being followed that he would let the devil into his garden to corrupt his only two worshipers? And surely god would have known that the serpent was entering into the garden and did nothing to stop it! And we can assume he knew that the devil was sneaking, because if the devil was able to hide his actions from god then that would mean that the devil is more powerful than god. Either way, god is a huge farking douche bag.

Also how he decides to destroy all of his creation because of one species making him sad, and he only spared it because of one man and his family (though he still destroys nearly all land-based life anyways just to wipe out humans, was snapping your finger and making them poof out of existence too boring?). Then he purposefully screws around with Pharaoh, who several times was ready and willing to let the slaves go, but God hardened his heart so that he could heap more shiat on Pharaoh and Egypt, and it was only the blood of first-born that finally appeased God into letting P ...

So much of the old testament sounds like a bunch of pissed off wimps who were bullied and the only way they can get revenge is to invent fantasies to assuage their bruised egos.

LegacyDL: I seriously don't understand why people are acting this way? Do same-sex marriages somehow mess up other people's marriages? Do these people get special discounts that hetero couples don't get?

Yep. Many people feel that any 'official' endorsement of any form of sexual congress other than penis-in-vagina-for-baby-making-within-marriage is an endorsement of the behavior.

So if you're really attached to sucking other guys off, you'll do it quietly, out of the light, and certainly never advocate it by pledging your whole cork-sucking future to one particular cork. Since sexuality is a spectrum, we'll use hate rituals, like queer-bashing and bullying to shore up the extra 5% who might other wise come out, and exile the 3% that can't be closeted to the distant cities and probably wind up killing 2% in the process.

We'll cut them off from their families with hatred and shame, encouraging young men to run away rather than bring their shame on family. Young queer gals will quietly decide that bearding up and getting knocked up to assume a normative mask will make their life much easier (it will - nobody really cares about whose vag you lick, as long as yours is available for baby-making and domination by men, including, but not limited to, your husband.)

And you know what? For the great majority of people, things will work better - they won't be forced to go through a crippling self-analysis and introspection as they mature - they can just focus on developing their economic skills and social standing to get the best mate that their income can secure.

The girls won't have to worry about being strictly economically viable - just looking pretty and remaining desirable enough to attract good men and make beautiful babies around whom they can construct whole new identities as mothers and moralists - building strong social networks on which the economics of the community can be built, providing a soft power structure under their husbands' hard economic and physical power. That way the social organization can expel dangerous, destabilizing ideas and behaviors.

And for many people, this quiet nosy-parkerism will provide the small, regular doses of power and control that they need to avoid the terror that is the existential dread that comes with a life that has almost all of its material needs fulfilled from beginning to end.

Mouser: And this is why the so-called "gay rights" movement will never succeed. Racial minorities won their civil rights victories by appealing to the Christian values of whites and showed how racial prejudice was incompatible with those values. "Gay rights" activists want these same people to turn a blind eye to their Christian values to give the gays a free pass.

Showing contempt for those Christian values isn't helping their case, either. Insulting a man's faith is a really brilliant way to get him to show sympathy for your cause.


Your central point --- that antagonizing people who base their opposition to homosexuality on moral or religious grounds is self-defeating --- may be valid.

Your other point, that racial prejudice was incompatible with Christian values (even though many people defended racism by claiming it was God's will), while homophobia is inseparable from Christian values, however, is a load of malarkey.

The parallel is exact. At one time, virtually everybody thought that racism was in integral part of Christianity (though at the time, of course, they wouldn't have called it "racism"). Then there was a time when Christians were divided on the issue, with some claiming that the "separation of the races" was God's will, and others claiming that racial equality was more in line with the teachings of Jesus. Nowadays you'll find very few people who try to defend racism by claiming it's Biblical.

The exact same thing is happening with homosexuality as did with racism. Many people defend homophobia with the claim that the Bible condemns homosexuality, and they'll quote verses to prove it, just as people quoted verses from the Bible 160 years ago to defend slavery. We've reached the point now where Christians fight back, quoting scripture, and making arguments such as (a) Jesus never mentioned homosexuality, (b) Jesus healed a gay man's homosexual lover without saying "Go and sin no more" implying homosexuality was at worst, less of a sin than adultery, (c) verses which have been understood to condemn homosexuality may very well be mistranslations, and (d) even the passages which seem to most unambiguously commend homosexuality also vilify such mundane acts as eating shrimp or pepperoni pizza. There are other arguments as well, but I won't take the time to go into more detail. I'm not even asking you to agree with any of these arguments: I'm simply pointing out the fact that they exist, just as Christians made Biblical arguments against slavery and racism 200 years ago.

If history is any guide, we are approaching the point, perhaps another 50 years away, where the idea of using the Bible to vilify homosexuals will seem as quaint as vilifying Blacks with it does now. That doesn't mean Christianity will wither and die, any more than Emancipation ended Christian faith. Quite the contrary, Christianity will be around and thriving.

But this hateful interpretation of it, which you at present seem to think is inseparable from Christianity itself, will be little more than a historical footnote.

b3x: ciberido: b3x: wtf, i really don't see why they want to get married anyways. is filing jointly really that much of an incentive?

Perhaps watching the story of Shane Crone and Tom Bridegroom might make it a little clearer.

This story is more a tale about how important it is to have a will, and very little to do about marriage.

Then again, perhaps you will stubbornly continue to miss the point no matter how many times it is laid out before you. I believe this is what we call "willful ignorance."