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(Orange County Register)   Most US students fail at science, don't understand that if they aren't part of the solution....they are part of the precipitate   (ocregister.com) divider line 107
    More: Fail, National Assessment of Educational Progress, urban district, Advanced Placement, progress reports, cypress, biological systems, cell biology, No Child Left Behind  
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2964 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 May 2012 at 9:53 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-11 08:57:00 AM
Wow, never heard that one before.
 
2012-05-11 09:55:13 AM
The reported failings are exaggerated, as the assessment relies upon the unproven assumption that evolution is true and that the universe is actually billions of years in age.
 
2012-05-11 09:56:07 AM
I suck at science, didn't go get in college at the science classes I had to take.

Haven't needed those classes since. But then again, I didn't go into science as my first career.
 
Biv
2012-05-11 09:56:29 AM

Dimensio: The reported failings are exaggerated, as the assessment relies upon the unproven assumption that evolution is true and that the universe is actually billions of years in age.


I'll assume your joking and refrain from punching my monitor.

Oh and +1 subby. I enjoyed it.
 
2012-05-11 09:56:44 AM
Somebody say something about rain? Skies are clear here.
 
2012-05-11 09:56:51 AM
NEEEERRRD!!!! Let's beat up subby and steal his lunch money!!

youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com
 
2012-05-11 09:58:26 AM
steal that from a t-shirt, subby?
 
2012-05-11 09:59:25 AM
r dr r?
 
2012-05-11 09:59:46 AM
O.O ...... =.= I see what you did there, subby....
 
2012-05-11 09:59:59 AM

Forgot_my_password_again: didn't go get in college at the science classes I had to take.


apparently I suck at english to.
 
2012-05-11 10:00:21 AM
HA! Is joke of chemistry!
 
2012-05-11 10:00:30 AM
when asked, many people think the the sun revolves around the earth...which impressed me. Many people I meet seem to think the world revolves around themselves.
 
2012-05-11 10:03:51 AM
Probably failed at science because of all the shiat teachers they are hiring to fill these positions. There is more to the problem. rewardslink.info
 
2012-05-11 10:04:35 AM
I Read : Most US School Curriculum fail at effectively engaging students.
 
2012-05-11 10:11:16 AM
How can someone complain about kids failing science when they don't understand or accept science themselves?


If I want to understand why these children are stupid all I need to do is read the comments and realize that those people are their parents.
 
2012-05-11 10:12:08 AM
FTA: "Also, most of these students tested in California come from large urban districts, so it's not always an accurate representation."

And....?
 
2012-05-11 10:12:16 AM
That's because science is gay. How many touchdowns did science score last year? None.
 
2012-05-11 10:12:40 AM

Zion21: Probably failed at science because of all the shiat teachers they are hiring to fill these positions.


I think this problem is and always has been a cultural issue. I've met very, very few people who think science is interesting, necessary or even useful. It's laughably false, but when no adult cares, how do you get kids to even pay attention? It doesn't help that scientists themselves are generally awful at message, but even when they have a decent messenger there's no audience.

A school has an awesome science teacher. Some student makes a bogus harassment claim (or a parent complains) over a bad grade. No one anywhere in the entire town lifts a finger in support of the science teacher. Principal reads the writing on the wall; good teacher is fired. School gets a shiatty science teacher, but since shiatty teacher only reinforces the cultural assumptions about science (it's hard, it's boring, it's useless), good teacher isn't missed. A few people complain that our labor force is losing its competitive edge, but no parent thinks their kid is part of that. After all, the ones who care plan to have their kids major in finance.

As bad as the system is, no system on the planet can protect science teachers from cultural apathy.
 
2012-05-11 10:14:43 AM

fruitbatnt: I Read : Most US School Curriculum fail at effectively engaging students.


I read it: Most parents of US students don't give a single fark about their spawn's education and just want the little shiats out of the hours for seven hours a day.

busy chillin': when asked, many people think the the sun revolves around the earth...


Incorrect. The Sun is obviously lifted into the heavens by the might of our great leader
fim.413chan.net
 
2012-05-11 10:15:18 AM
Amazing how Utah which ranks near the bottom in education spending per student managed to place near the top in testing. Waiting for posts about how we need to spend more money on education while we already spend more than any other country in the world.


Combined Federal, State and local spending FY2012


Government Pensions $1.0 trillion

Government Health Care + $1.1 trillion

Government Education + $0.9 trillion

National Defense + $0.9 trillion

Government Welfare + $0.6 trillion

All Other Spending + $1.7 trillion

Total Government Spending $6.3 trillion
 
2012-05-11 10:16:09 AM
Is subby trying to make some sort of science joke? I am a former US student and can't tell.
 
2012-05-11 10:18:16 AM
I chortled at the headline.

I was never that great at the parts of science that required lots of math, because it was never really taught in a way that had any... I guess frame of reference to the real world. Like, ok, calculate this formula that will crunch one number into another number. They never followed it up with "You may need to calculate this if you wanted to accomplish so and so of a task in real life because yadda yadda so and so."

Outside of the bits of math and science that managed to stick, pretty much all of my knowledge of physics has effectively been on-the-job training. A lot of that is calculating energy densities or differentiating between peak energy and total power of a pulse. Stuff like "area under the curve" never had any meaning until there was a context in which to visualize it.
 
2012-05-11 10:19:25 AM

dragonchild: Zion21: Probably failed at science because of all the shiat teachers they are hiring to fill these positions.

I think this problem is and always has been a cultural issue. I've met very, very few people who think science is interesting, necessary or even useful. It's laughably false, but when no adult cares, how do you get kids to even pay attention? It doesn't help that scientists themselves are generally awful at message, but even when they have a decent messenger there's no audience.

A school has an awesome science teacher. Some student makes a bogus harassment claim (or a parent complains) over a bad grade. No one anywhere in the entire town lifts a finger in support of the science teacher. Principal reads the writing on the wall; good teacher is fired. School gets a shiatty science teacher, but since shiatty teacher only reinforces the cultural assumptions about science (it's hard, it's boring, it's useless), good teacher isn't missed. A few people complain that our labor force is losing its competitive edge, but no parent thinks their kid is part of that. After all, the ones who care plan to have their kids major in finance.

As bad as the system is, no system on the planet can protect science teachers from cultural apathy.


This. In addition, the whole trend due to standardized testing is drill-and-kill. Some districts are forcing lower performing schools to use scripted curriculum, which completely destroys any ability to engage. In my experience, science is most interesting when it's hands-on and visual.
 
2012-05-11 10:19:35 AM

Forgot_my_password_again: Forgot_my_password_again: didn't go get in college at the science classes I had to take.

apparently I suck at english English to too.


Yes, you do.
 
2012-05-11 10:20:27 AM
Based on the article, how can you tell? The test only compares states with each other. There is no information on the content of the tests. If US students scored poorly on the same test when compared with others of their age in other countries, then you could conclude there is a problem there.

The assumption in the headline is, well.. unscientific.

/if submitter is American then I withdraw my objection on that basis
 
2012-05-11 10:20:39 AM
Can we administer this same test to our congressmen and women? I would like to compare the results...
 
2012-05-11 10:20:42 AM
Sad how many people in the USA that consider themselves Fundamentalist Christians place the teachings of the Catholic Church above the Bible.
 
2012-05-11 10:20:57 AM
Part of the problem is science classes that cater to the lowest common numerator.
 
2012-05-11 10:22:17 AM

Biv: Dimensio: The reported failings are exaggerated, as the assessment relies upon the unproven assumption that evolution is true and that the universe is actually billions of years in age.

I'll assume your joking and refrain from punching my monitor.


Punching your monitor is ill-advisable. Doing so will destroy expensive computer equipment and will likely cause injury to your hand, which was not "designed" for such a purpose.
 
2012-05-11 10:23:43 AM

natazha: Sad how many people in the USA that consider themselves Fundamentalist Christians place the teachings of the Catholic Church above the Bible.


6/10
 
2012-05-11 10:27:21 AM
I'm disappointed in how many people here haven't heard that joke before.

static.neatoshop.com
 
2012-05-11 10:27:33 AM
Maybe we should pay teachers less, put more students in classrooms, and raise the price of college. They should be in debt for decades if they dare to go to college.

Also make sure anyone with the slightest interest in science gets called a nerd and a geek and a dweeb until they're college aged and subject them to random violence.

Of course, I only speak from personal experience.
 
2012-05-11 10:27:49 AM
Nah, could be part of a suspension. Which is neither the solution nor a precipitate.
 
2012-05-11 10:27:50 AM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-05-11 10:33:33 AM

Brew78: I was never that great at the parts of science that required lots of math, because it was never really taught in a way that had any... I guess frame of reference to the real world. Like, ok, calculate this formula that will crunch one number into another number.


I think a lot of math teachers see math differently than the average student. They are good at math and think about it in a different way and have a hard time understanding that things that make perfect sense to them are hard to understand for most others when presented in a certain way.

You have teachers who spend 26 minutes filling up 3 blackboards with some long equation and then coming up with the wrong answer and then asking students who tuned out 25 1/2 minutes ago if they can find the mistake.
 
2012-05-11 10:33:40 AM

mod3072: NEEEERRRD!!!! Let's beat up subby and steal his lunch money!!

[youoffendmeyouoffendmyfamily.com image 400x353]


Remember that dick in high school who made our lives hell? Let's hack his computer, get his SS and CC numbers, and destroy his credit rating.

www.mastersinit.org
 
2012-05-11 10:34:05 AM
Just precipitating in this thread.
 
2012-05-11 10:35:25 AM

Gordon Bennett: Based on the article, how can you tell? The test only compares states with each other. There is no information on the content of the tests. If US students scored poorly on the same test when compared with others of their age in other countries, then you could conclude there is a problem there.

The assumption in the headline is, well.. unscientific.

/if submitter is American then I withdraw my objection on that basis


Your ability to draw conclusions needs work. Comparing to other countries only shows how you compare to other countries. Shocking I know. If all countries score a 100% and US students score a 95%, then you would conclude there is a problem in the US I wouldn't. If all other countries score a 5% and the US scores a 10% then you would conclude the US is doing great. I wouldn't.
 
2012-05-11 10:37:01 AM
In my kids' school district, teachers at the elementary level suck at science and the teachers in middle and high school levels are quite good. This translates into differentiated classes in middle school and high school, where the majority of kids are being taught what third graders should know and the minority of kids who are naturally science-oriented and whose parents have pushed them through elementary school are doing some challenging work.

That said, I don't assign the majority of the blame to the teachers or the school districts. Parents aren't interested. I am not a a teacher, but I run several volunteer science programs at the elementary and middle school level in my area. For example, I run the local elementary science fair. The fair is voluntary for the students and I enlist a variety of volunteers throughout the three months running up to the fair. At the beginning of the year, only about 10% of the kids sign up for science fair. We run workshops after school and in the evenings and have people available every day for months to help the kids. We, the volunteers, help the kids design the experiments. We work with the parents to make sure the experiments are appropriate for their comfort level (e.g. some parents are cool with building a trebuchet in their back yards, others aren't...). The kids can come work with volunteers to put together their displays and there is a hotline they can call and/or email any day of the week to get help. Despite all this, there IS work that must be done at home. It is all laid out for the parent and it usually just requires a dedication of time and perhaps a few items from the hardware store or Radio Shack.

Yet, at the end of the fair, that 10% who sign up for doing experiments translates into about 2% who actually finish projects. I get emails from the parents saying that "time got away from them". A few times I have run into students who have said they were disappointed but just didn't have enough help at home. I wish for those kids' sakes that I could run more workshops, but I also work fulltime and have my own kids to raise as well.

It's the same story for the other science and technology programs for which I volunteer. Parents are happy to send their kids to the programs, but most are not at all willing to sit down and work with them or volunteer for the programs themselves. They aren't interested in challenging and/or pushing their kids to complete their work or, in some cases, even show up on time to meetings.

I imagine that my experience in volunteer programs with these sorts of parents translates to the same type of behavior and attitude toward science schoolwork as well.
 
2012-05-11 10:37:47 AM
i586.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-11 10:41:28 AM

I_C_Weener: [i586.photobucket.com image 445x668]


Lol. Okay, hadn't seen that one before.
 
2012-05-11 10:47:37 AM
Students don't achieve significant proficiency in science during high school. Once they're in university, they're subjected to 800 student classes, and teacher's assistants who are jet fresh from science rich countries and aren't proficient in English.
 
2012-05-11 10:48:53 AM
It's obviously because science is boring
 
2012-05-11 10:49:24 AM

Bruxellensis: I'm disappointed in how many people here haven't heard that joke before.

[static.neatoshop.com image 600x400]


thats because it requires a basic understanding of chemistry, but if you do, yes it is funny.

as someone else stated above, when the parents dont care about science, how do you expect the kids to?

just the other day I was out with a couple co-workers and they brought up that whole dino farting story..with one of them saying how it was what killed the dinosaurs. Which let me know exactly where he gets his science "news" anyways I went on to correct him by telling him what was actually said in the actual science article. with which they retorted.. oh what do those scientists know? which simply made me laugh externally, and cry internally, since not 10 minutes before in the conversation they had asked what I am in school for..geophysics a Degree that without fail, I have to explain to people. well outside of those very few people who actually study science
 
2012-05-11 10:53:07 AM
California science students, what would you be if you were attached to another object by an inclined plane wrapped helically around an axis?
 
2012-05-11 10:53:20 AM
Just wanted to pop in and say as someone who has taught chemistry students in a very diverse university, the student at the very top of the class is usually American, so take this stuff with a grain of salt. We don't produce lots of mediocre scientists but we do produce the very best ones.
 
2012-05-11 10:56:32 AM

hasty ambush: Amazing how Utah which ranks near the bottom in education spending per student managed to place near the top in testing. Waiting for posts about how we need to spend more money on education while we already spend more than any other country in the world.


Combined Federal, State and local spending FY2012

Government Pensions $1.0 trillion

Government Health Care + $1.1 trillion

Government Education + $0.9 trillion

National Defense + $0.9 trillion

Government Welfare + $0.6 trillion

All Other Spending + $1.7 trillion

Total Government Spending $6.3 trillion


This is somewhat misleading, the funding for education includes many different things. The idea that spending less wouldn't hurt, or that more wouldn't help isn't quite supported. There's disparity in relative spending aside from the apparent differences in places like Utah, as well as differences in local SES, cost of living, and so on.

Education spending isn't just general K-12 teacher pay and football uniforms. There's large chunks of spending that go out for things like Pell grants, IDEA (support for disabled kids, etc.), NCLB (Learning disabilities), school lunches, and so on.

There are marked differences in how districts choose to appropriate funds. Some of them make really stupid decisions (prioritize sports over textbooks/teachers, for instance). Science teachers are often harder to find, but schools don't have the budget to pay them more (or aren't allowed to do so by unions).

On the other hand, if you compare us to Finland, you can see a case where spending priorities are very different. Their education system is typically rated the best in the world. Education from birth through vocational/professional degrees is all free to any citizen. Continuing adult education is also free. Teaching jobs are highly prized and competitive, require a master's degree, and pay extremely well. Private schools don't really exist.
 
Biv
2012-05-11 10:57:40 AM

kattana: Bruxellensis: I'm disappointed in how many people here haven't heard that joke before.

[static.neatoshop.com image 600x400]

thats because it requires a basic understanding of chemistry, but if you do, yes it is funny.

as someone else stated above, when the parents dont care about science, how do you expect the kids to?

just the other day I was out with a couple co-workers and they brought up that whole dino farting story..with one of them saying how it was what killed the dinosaurs. Which let me know exactly where he gets his science "news" anyways I went on to correct him by telling him what was actually said in the actual science article. with which they retorted.. oh what do those scientists know? which simply made me laugh externally, and cry internally, since not 10 minutes before in the conversation they had asked what I am in school for..geophysics a Degree that without fail, I have to explain to people. well outside of those very few people who actually study science


Study of the interaction of land masses? Study of the properties of minerals?

/not a scientist.
 
2012-05-11 11:00:58 AM
A bunch of dropouts, then.
 
2012-05-11 11:03:16 AM

Brew78: I chortled at the headline.

I was never that great at the parts of science that required lots of math, because it was never really taught in a way that had any... I guess frame of reference to the real world. Like, ok, calculate this formula that will crunch one number into another number. They never followed it up with "You may need to calculate this if you wanted to accomplish so and so of a task in real life because yadda yadda so and so."

Outside of the bits of math and science that managed to stick, pretty much all of my knowledge of physics has effectively been on-the-job training. A lot of that is calculating energy densities or differentiating between peak energy and total power of a pulse. Stuff like "area under the curve" never had any meaning until there was a context in which to visualize it.


Physics makes a ton more intuitive sense if you've already taken calculus. Without calculus, it's hard to memorize the formula because their physical significance makes no sense.
 
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