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(Fox News)   Microsoft to ban every browser but Internet Explorer from the new version of Windows. This is not a repeat from 1998   (foxnews.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, Internet Explorer, window, Microsoft, browser, Windows Desktop, landmark ruling, Microsoft Word, SciTech High  
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22462 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 May 2012 at 9:19 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



264 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2012-05-11 08:27:10 AM  
img.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-11 08:30:50 AM  
Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.
 
2012-05-11 08:52:54 AM  
Oh Microsoft, just when I thought you were all grown up and had gotten over these kinds of adolescent antics.
 
2012-05-11 09:20:29 AM  

cman: This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


Oh well, that makes it OK then...
 
2012-05-11 09:21:32 AM  
It's my party, I can do what I want!
 
2012-05-11 09:22:29 AM  
cdn2.digitaltrends.com
 
2012-05-11 09:22:40 AM  
I'm sure the DoJ will be VERY interested in this.

Is their new motto going to be "Microsoft: Just try to stop us now!"
 
2012-05-11 09:23:33 AM  

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


You can get other browsers for the iPad. I've got Opera on mine.
 
2012-05-11 09:23:42 AM  

cman: This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


Well, sure, the most important thing is to control the next generation of computers and the next generation of the Internet. This is why tablet and smartphone software is toy-like and restrictive. Microsoft, Apple, and Google are in a race to dumb down the users and capture their habits and thinking. There will be no help from the DOJ this time.
 
2012-05-11 09:23:54 AM  

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


And how does that make it not anymore anti-competitive?
 
2012-05-11 09:24:33 AM  

Generation_D: Oh Microsoft, just when I thought you were all grown up and had gotten over these kinds of adolescent antics.


Apple came along and perfected Microsoft's bonehead strategy for them, so now Microsoft is going to steal it back?

And just like with Apple's stuff, it doesn't matter. It'll be broken on day one and you'll be able to sideload whatever you want.
 
2012-05-11 09:24:51 AM  
The Metro UI is actually driven by the browser engine. If they want to offer a fast and reliable UI they will need control over it. Let them whine all they want but I'm glad Microsoft is doing this. You can still put your own browser in, it just won't run the main UI of the operating system.

I don't see anyone whining that Chromebooks won't load a separate browser, or iOS, or Android.

Get over it.
 
2012-05-11 09:26:03 AM  
As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?
 
2012-05-11 09:26:04 AM  
Too late, Microsoft. Android beat you to the tablet/phone market a couple of years ago.
 
2012-05-11 09:26:19 AM  
Not to mention that the other browser makers are able to create "Metro" browsers. They just won't have access to the "classic" Windows architecture and API's.
 
2012-05-11 09:26:26 AM  

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


Oh, well then. That totally makes it OK.

/it's not OK
 
2012-05-11 09:26:59 AM  
This just in: Windows Phone runs Internet Explorer, Android runs Chrome, iOS runs Safari.

WindowsRT is the new name for WP. Get over it.
 
2012-05-11 09:27:09 AM  

Silverstaff: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

You can get other browsers for the iPad. I've got Opera on mine.


You can get other browsers on the the iPad/iPhone as long as the rendering is done on a remote server(like Opera) or the "browser" is just a skin for Safari. No other native browsers allowed.
 
2012-05-11 09:27:18 AM  
MS has been watching Apple for the last 5 years and come to the understanding that the world has changed since the 1990s. The US gov't won't do a thing.
 
2012-05-11 09:27:43 AM  

Warlordtrooper: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

And how does that make it not anymore anti-competitive?


legislators, judges and department personnel are too unsophisticated to realize what's going on.
 
2012-05-11 09:28:40 AM  

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


Did cman read the whole article? Including the part where it was stated that ARM chips are expected to be used in laptop and desktop systems as well, and that they were already being used in servers?

\guess not
 
2012-05-11 09:28:52 AM  

cman: This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


You can put other browsers on iProducts. And, some of the other browsers have better features than Safari.
 
2012-05-11 09:30:17 AM  

cman: This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


Yay! Collusion rules!
/probably not collusion
 
2012-05-11 09:30:48 AM  
legislators, judges and department personnel are too unsophisticated to realize what's going on.

Now we know Steve Ballmer's Fark name. This has been Microsoft's position from day 1.
 
2012-05-11 09:31:08 AM  
 
2012-05-11 09:31:54 AM  
Internet Explorer does everything that I need it to do, like my taxes and banking, reports sports scores, and even gives me new recipes to try. I don't see why anyone would need any other browser because IE seems to have everything you can imagine inside of it. I've heard that Firefox doesn't even have Bing because it is too complex to run on the Mozilla OS. And believe me, as a Federal Judge, I take all of this into consideration when I rule on these cases.
 
2012-05-11 09:32:11 AM  

This About That: cman: This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Well, sure, the most important thing is to control the next generation of computers and the next generation of the Internet. This is why tablet and smartphone software is toy-like and restrictive. Microsoft, Apple, and Google are in a race to dumb down the users and capture their habits and thinking. There will be no help from the DOJ this time.


Help from the DOJ will come when tablets rise above the level of toy. Which, given the difficulty of using productivity applications on a 10 inch screen and no keyboard or mouse, might be never.
 
2012-05-11 09:32:42 AM  

bulldg4life: cman: This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

You can put other browsers on iProducts. And, some of the other browsers have better features than Safari.


Not exactly. You can have browser shells that still have to use the Safari rendering engine(like all the IE shells that were so popular back in the day) or they have to offload rendering to a remote server(like Opera or Skyfire). That's the reason there's no native Firefox on the iOS, other "real" browsers are allowed, so all they could make was Firefox Home to sync bookmarks and stuff.
 
2012-05-11 09:32:45 AM  
OK, the article left out some key information here that is driving this thread into a crazed frenzy.


From the Harvey Anderson Mozilla Blog
It's reported that Windows RT (the name Microsoft has given to Windows running on the ARM processor) will have two environments, a Windows Classic environment and a Metro environment for apps. However, Windows on ARM prohibits any browser except for Internet Explorer from running in the privileged "Windows Classic" environment.

I agree it's a bone headed move, but it's not necessarily banning all browsers from Windows RT, just classic mode.
 
2012-05-11 09:33:23 AM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


They're going to have access to a much more limited API than Microsoft will, which will artificially limit their ability to put features in the browser. The browser doesn't "run on ARM", the browser runs on Windows and without access to the API, there's only so much you can do with a reasonable amount of work.

Microsoft is intentionally gimping competitor browsers by not allowing them to access all the same features as IE will be able to, is what it comes down to.

An analogy might be a house where you have two contractors working, one that's allowed to have the blueprints and one that isn't. There's nothing technically preventing the "blind" contractor from doing whatever he wants, but it's going to be a hell of a lot harder for him.
 
2012-05-11 09:34:05 AM  
The problem is that of a monopoly. To do so on the desktop/laptop OS would essentially establish one, outside of the tiny Mac/Linux shares.

Doing so on one of their little devices doesn't. There's so many tablet devices available, it's not funny.
 
2012-05-11 09:34:06 AM  

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


Was going to say, sounds like they're just taking another page out of Apple's playbook.
 
2012-05-11 09:36:13 AM  
i find it odd that people seem to think MS is under some kind of obligation to natively support every existing application on every OS they develop.
 
2012-05-11 09:36:28 AM  
This is less and less an issue in that IE is finally being made, kicking and screaming, into a decent browser.

But this would NOT have been the case were there not competition.
 
2012-05-11 09:36:35 AM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


The problem isn't the code itself, but lack of access to APIs. They will probably still be able to create browsers, but they may lack features since they will be restricted to Metro, which is much more sand boxed compared to traditional win32 APIs.
 
2012-05-11 09:36:46 AM  
They're talking about WinRT, the ARM version of Win8. The desktop interface in WinRT ONLY allows you to run Microsoft-authorized software, and at this time there's only two planned: Office, and Internet Explorer. Not that the Metro interface is much better; on there, you can only run programs from Microsoft's app store. And, of course, the design spec for WinRT requires Secure Boot, which ensures that you will never be able to install a non-MS OS on there without some serious hacking.

WinRT is MS's attempt to iOS-ize Windows. I hope it fails.
 
2012-05-11 09:36:48 AM  

Silverstaff: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

You can get other browsers for the iPad. I've got Opera on mine.


Technically, but there isn't much difference where it matters. Still no native flash or changing certain defaults. You end up using Safari much of the time anyway.

What I think is ironic is that Apple stunted its growth with the walled garden model early on, where Microsoft flourished doing the opposite. You'd hope they'd bring that theory to opening up the tablet frontier instead of copying Apples shtick.
 
2012-05-11 09:38:16 AM  

hamiltonjdavid: This just in: Windows Phone runs Internet Explorer, Android runs Chrome, iOS runs Safari.

WindowsRT is the new name for WP. Get over it.


You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. iOS and Android allow many different browsers to run on them with no problems. MS trying to claim it is because of ARM issues is simply ridiculous.
 
2012-05-11 09:38:22 AM  
Those bastards.

Can you throw operating systems into Boston Harbor?
 
2012-05-11 09:38:40 AM  
Luckily EVERYTHING Microsoft has ever and will ever do on EVERY non PC platform fails. So I'm not worried what the 139 people world wide who get a Win8 Metro phone tablet combo have to suffer. They don't know what a browser IS.
 
2012-05-11 09:38:46 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org

Better in every way.
 
2012-05-11 09:39:30 AM  

spentmiles: Internet Explorer does everything that I need it to do, like my taxes and banking, reports sports scores, and even gives me new recipes to try. I don't see why anyone would need any other browser because IE seems to have everything you can imagine inside of it. I've heard that Firefox doesn't even have Bing because it is too complex to run on the Mozilla OS. And believe me, as a Federal Judge, I take all of this into consideration when I rule on these cases.


Eh, not your best stuff.
 
2012-05-11 09:39:32 AM  

way south: Technically, but there isn't much difference where it matters. Still no native flash or changing certain defaults. You end up using Safari much of the time anyway.

What I think is ironic is that Apple stunted its growth with the walled garden model early on, where Microsoft flourished doing the opposite. You'd hope they'd bring that theory to opening up the tablet frontier instead of copying Apples shtick.



Every dumbass big business always gets the egghead that insists that limiting stuff somehow makes things more valuable.

How the hell these idiots still proliferate, I'd like to know.
 
2012-05-11 09:39:36 AM  
I don't use Windows (a tiny bit at work), so I don't care.

People still use Firefox? One would think that Chrome and Safari would be the end of it.
 
2012-05-11 09:39:57 AM  
Jesus do people really not understand how browsers work on their own products... looking at you iPad and iPhone people. Your browser on those devices are not real browsers, they render and hand them to the phone or they use safari. This will be the same with WindowsRT yet since MS is doing it this is a bad thing.
 
2012-05-11 09:39:58 AM  
Would somebody please explain to me why it's so f*cking important which does-the-same-damn-thing-essentially browser people use, from an economic standpoint? It's not like I cut a check to MS, Google or Mozilla.
 
2012-05-11 09:40:00 AM  
i789.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-11 09:40:52 AM  
Microsoft is pulling Microsoft anticompetitive moves, the Justice Department damned well ought to smack the crap out of them for it before they get an irreparable headlock on a market (again). "Give your competitors access to the APIs. Thank you. Go drink your juice."
 
2012-05-11 09:41:29 AM  

rob.d: MS has been watching Apple for the last 5 years and come to the understanding that the world has changed since the 1990s. The US gov't won't do a thing.


this

especially since MS started contributing large sums to both political parties, which they didn't back then. As long as the fami...um, parties get their taste there will be no problems, understand?

/posted from symbian
 
2012-05-11 09:42:13 AM  

pkellmey: hamiltonjdavid: This just in: Windows Phone runs Internet Explorer, Android runs Chrome, iOS runs Safari.

WindowsRT is the new name for WP. Get over it.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. iOS and Android allow many different browsers to run on them with no problems. MS trying to claim it is because of ARM issues is simply ridiculous.


Another clue that he's clueless is the claim that WinRT is the new name for WP. It's not. They're not based on the same kernels or the same APIs. WP7 uses the CE kernel and uses Silverlight as its main API. WinRT uses the NT kernel (the same one as Windows proper) and, while it will run Silverlight apps, its main API is HTML5.
 
2012-05-11 09:42:21 AM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


The chip isn't the problem. Both Firefox and Chrome can be compiled to run on ARM chips. The problem here is the operating system.

Right now, Windows and Mac don't actually try to block other browsers from running. It sounds like WinRT 8 might do this, though. When an OS is actively trying to stop you from running, getting around those blocks can become a big problem.
 
2012-05-11 09:42:50 AM  
What i dont understand is why MS is obligated to enable competition for itself.

The REAL way this should have worked is that MS Closes down windows for all MS products only forcing competators to come out with their own operating systems to rival windows.

Then we have TRUE competition.
 
2012-05-11 09:43:25 AM  

cleek: i find it odd that people seem to think MS is under some kind of obligation to natively support every existing application on every OS they develop.


The obligation is not to support your competition, just to not artificially lock them out.
 
2012-05-11 09:43:33 AM  
And you know what these arguments always remind me of? UNIX.

Old folks may remember the days when you had System V and SunOS and Xenix and none of them ever seemed to really play well together. You might be able to get a piece of software for one, but not another because each vendor did its own thing and locked out interoperability. System boards only fit in one server, cards were only available for one type of UNIX... you didn't buy a server and then you could run Unix or Linux or Windows or OS/2 on it. You bought a system that ran a version of Unix and that was it. If you didn't use that vendor anymore, odds were pretty good your whole machine became a useless pile of digital trash.

It sucked. And it seems like with the lack of technical knowledge so prevalent in the younger generations that we're going back that way with phones and tablets. Apps works on iOS but not Android and now we're going to have a special class of Windows RT apps.

Maybe I'm wrong or maybe kids just don't give a shiat about the lack of interoperability, but I remember when shiat only worked on one computer at a time and it was really, really annoying.... I'd rather not go through it for another generation.
 
2012-05-11 09:43:43 AM  
Ive never seen people fight so hard over products that dont actually make you any money. Its not fair that we cant give our product away for free as easily as they give theirs away for free! Waaaah.

WTF.
 
2012-05-11 09:43:44 AM  

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


When Apple does this: "Hey, it's their OS, they can do what they want with it. Frankly, it's less buggy this way. That's why Apple just works and Microsoft suxxzorz lolobluescreen!!!"

When Microsoft does this: "OMG ANTITRUST!!!! SOMEONE START AN INVESTIGATION! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"
 
2012-05-11 09:43:48 AM  

HeartBurnKid: They're talking about WinRT, the ARM version of Win8. The desktop interface in WinRT ONLY allows you to run Microsoft-authorized software, and at this time there's only two planned: Office, and Internet Explorer. Not that the Metro interface is much better; on there, you can only run programs from Microsoft's app store. And, of course, the design spec for WinRT requires Secure Boot, which ensures that you will never be able to install a non-MS OS on there without some serious hacking.

WinRT is MS's attempt to iOS-ize Windows. I hope it fails.


Nope. Writing this from a winrt tablet with vlc, chrome, and a crapload of other stuff installed.
 
2012-05-11 09:44:12 AM  
So what are they going to do? Have a blocker that doesn't allow to you install 3rd party browsers?

/dnrtfa
 
2012-05-11 09:44:42 AM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


They can and already have. I have several Linux-on-ARM devices, and have firefox running on one and 'Fennec' (lightweight firefox for phones and things) on another. This is (as Splinshints said) a matter of not being given the full details of how to operate/build software for the platform properly.

TBH the only thing that interests me about Windows-on-ARM is how cheap the devices are going to be, and how soon someone manages to make android or debian boot on them...
 
2012-05-11 09:44:50 AM  
So, I should do what I did with Vista. Skip it and wait until the next version comes out.
 
2012-05-11 09:45:02 AM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


They can do it, you know like the way that Chrome can be installed on a Mac or Firefox can be installed on an Android device.
 
2012-05-11 09:46:04 AM  

Trance750: So what are they going to do? Have a blocker that doesn't allow to you install 3rd party browsers?

/dnrtfa


Kinda sorta. I believe, and I could be wrong, that WinRT will be locked down from running unsigned code. The only way to get your code signed will be through the Windows marketplace on the tablet. This is why third party browsers may be allowed in metro, but not Classic Mode.
 
2012-05-11 09:46:13 AM  
Troll. You can have whatever browser you want in Windows 8. In Windows RT, you're limited to browsers running in Metro, but you still can install other browsers, so long as they're programmed to work in Metro.
 
2012-05-11 09:46:13 AM  

GoGoGadgetLiver: The Metro UI is actually driven by the browser engine. If they want to offer a fast and reliable UI they will need control over it. Let them whine all they want but I'm glad Microsoft is doing this. You can still put your own browser in, it just won't run the main UI of the operating system.

I don't see anyone whining that Chromebooks won't load a separate browser, or iOS, or Android.

Get over it.


That was true of Windows 98, as well.
 
2012-05-11 09:47:51 AM  
Tablets are probably gonna die. They're stupid stripped down junk bought by chumps who don't know any better. Microsoft phones suck as well and will probably get steamrolled by Android.

It may not be a big deal unless somehow their phone OS takes off. I can't believe they renamed it again. Pegasus, CE 1.0 - infinity, Mobile 1.0 - infinity, CE Mobile...

I gave up after that.
 
2012-05-11 09:48:00 AM  
At the end of the day, I don't think it will matter though. I think at the end of the day, Windows will still be tied to x86. The big reason people will want Windows tablets will be for legacy app support, and WinRT does no good there.

For the non-walled garden tablets, Android will probably be the way to go for ARM. The fate of Windows is tied to the PC. For phones and tablets, it's a two horse race between Apple and Google.

Ten years from now, Microsoft will be competing with Linux(the year of the Linux desktop will finally come when the desktop dies) for what remains of the desktop market with Android as the majority in the tablet and phone market and Apple with a healthy(especially for a single company on its own platform) 25-30% share that probably make more money off higher margins than the combined manufacturers that make up the Android market.
 
2012-05-11 09:48:27 AM  

bunner: Would somebody please explain to me why it's so f*cking important which does-the-same-damn-thing-essentially browser people use, from an economic standpoint? It's not like I cut a check to MS, Google or Mozilla.


You may not cut a check, but they do make money from you using their browser. You know that handy little search bar in the corner of every browser nowadays? Each and every one of those search engines is an affiliate link, so when you, for example, search Google from the Firefox search bar, Google gives Mozilla a few cents. That's why it matters to them.

Why should it matter to you? Well, remember when Microsoft all-but-drove Netscape out of business, and we ended up with an Internet Explorer that was completely stagnant, missing a bunch of features that have become key to the browsing experience, and incompatible with the established standards, but you still had to use it sometimes because some sites only worked with that? Imagine that scenario happening again. Except without even the option of using something modern.
 
2012-05-11 09:48:35 AM  

poisonedpawn78: What i dont understand is why MS is obligated to enable competition for itself.

The REAL way this should have worked is that MS Closes down windows for all MS products only forcing competators to come out with their own operating systems to rival windows.

Then we have TRUE competition.


ubuntu is waiting in the wings. There was something on /. Or the reg about ubuntu shipping on 5 percent of pc's worldwide. Probably not entirely accurate but interesting.
 
2012-05-11 09:48:52 AM  
But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?
 
2012-05-11 09:48:59 AM  

sharkbeagle: Luckily EVERYTHING Microsoft has ever and will ever do on EVERY non PC platform fails. So I'm not worried what the 139 people world wide who get a Win8 Metro phone tablet combo have to suffer. They don't know what a browser IS.


asset3.cbsistatic.com
 
2012-05-11 09:49:02 AM  

MightyPez: Trance750: So what are they going to do? Have a blocker that doesn't allow to you install 3rd party browsers?

/dnrtfa

Kinda sorta. I believe, and I could be wrong, that WinRT will be locked down from running unsigned code. The only way to get your code signed will be through the Windows marketplace on the tablet. This is why third party browsers may be allowed in metro, but not Classic Mode.


The main reason I don't use IE is because I can't go 5 minutes without it crashing or locking up
 
2012-05-11 09:49:05 AM  
That might just get me to finally jump ship to Ubuntu just out of spite.
 
2012-05-11 09:49:36 AM  
If they wanted to restrict access to the old environment it should have it should have just been removed completely and the OS made Metro only. This would have worked fine on their phones and tablets, but those idiots also want to run this abomination on desktops where the classic environment is required for older programs to work. This one size fits all Windows 8 is one of the dumbest things they've ever done. There should be two versions, one for desktops without this metro BS and one for tablets. I hope Windows 8 fails so hard that Microsoft Bob looks like a huge success in comparison.
 
2012-05-11 09:49:54 AM  
Has anyone found thi on a credible website, becouse I trust any scince or technology news from fox as much as I trust the unbiased political reporting
 
2012-05-11 09:50:05 AM  

Alonjar: Ive never seen people fight so hard over products that dont actually make you any money. Its not fair that we cant give our product away for free as easily as they give theirs away for free! Waaaah.

WTF.


Mozilla and Opera get paid for traffic, by Google. That's why google search is so well integrated, well that and it's really useful. I'm not sure about Opera, but for Mozilla that makes up a large part, or even the majority, of their funding.

Google seem to like the idea of driving things with their own browser, and keeping the competition going too. It's a bit odd.
 
2012-05-11 09:50:13 AM  

McManus_brothers: spentmiles: Internet Explorer does everything that I need it to do, like my taxes and banking, reports sports scores, and even gives me new recipes to try. I don't see why anyone would need any other browser because IE seems to have everything you can imagine inside of it. I've heard that Firefox doesn't even have Bing because it is too complex to run on the Mozilla OS. And believe me, as a Federal Judge, I take all of this into consideration when I rule on these cases.

Eh, not your best stuff.


I disagree. This one got a chuckle out of me.
 
2012-05-11 09:51:06 AM  

way south: Silverstaff: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

You can get other browsers for the iPad. I've got Opera on mine.

Technically, but there isn't much difference where it matters. Still no native flash or changing certain defaults. You end up using Safari much of the time anyway.

What I think is ironic is that Apple stunted its growth with the walled garden model early on, where Microsoft flourished doing the opposite. You'd hope they'd bring that theory to opening up the tablet frontier instead of copying Apples shtick.


Microsoft did well in the 80s and 90s because of marketing. Even though their products were absolute rubbish.

Apple did well in the 2000s because of marketing, they destroyed Microsoft even though Windows quality improved significantly.

The latest Linux distros are very user friendly. If it weren't for gaming I'd never install Windows again.
 
2012-05-11 09:51:20 AM  

Splinshints: Maybe I'm wrong or maybe kids just don't give a shiat about the lack of interoperability, but I remember when shiat only worked on one computer at a time and it was really, really annoying.... I'd rather not go through it for another generation.


The situation is a little different now. Most modern apps exist on both the Android and iOS eventually, where there was a real interoperability issue back then because the developers were locked into only a certain platform version. Whether Android and iOS apps will develop a MS version, or even be allowed to, is still to be determined.
 
2012-05-11 09:51:48 AM  

lectos: But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?


On the desktop yes, on ARM tablets they have to be Metro apps or they aren't allowed, and even then they have to be approved by Microsoft's app store.
 
2012-05-11 09:52:01 AM  

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: HeartBurnKid: They're talking about WinRT, the ARM version of Win8. The desktop interface in WinRT ONLY allows you to run Microsoft-authorized software, and at this time there's only two planned: Office, and Internet Explorer. Not that the Metro interface is much better; on there, you can only run programs from Microsoft's app store. And, of course, the design spec for WinRT requires Secure Boot, which ensures that you will never be able to install a non-MS OS on there without some serious hacking.

WinRT is MS's attempt to iOS-ize Windows. I hope it fails.

Nope. Writing this from a winrt tablet with vlc, chrome, and a crapload of other stuff installed.


I'd like to know how you managed that, considering there aren't any WinRT tablets on the market yet and there are no WinRT ports of either Chrome or VLC. Are you using an x86 tablet with the Win8 Consumer Preview installed? Because Win8 and WinRT are not the same thing.
 
2012-05-11 09:52:35 AM  
I'm using my desktop system less and less, and using my A500 tab more and more. So, I'm having hard time giving a rats ass what M$ does. 7 runs fine, and will probably be good until I eliminate the desktop in the next while. I never though I'd give up a desktop system, I guess I'm old school, but gotta say. I love my tablet.
 
2012-05-11 09:52:54 AM  

cardex: Has anyone found thi on a credible website, becouse I trust any scince or technology news from fox as much as I trust the unbiased political reporting


The Register is also running it. They're a pretty reliable tech-news site.
 
2012-05-11 09:53:15 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Well, remember when Microsoft all-but-drove Netscape out of business, and we ended up with an Internet Explorer that was completely stagnant, missing a bunch of features that have become key to the browsing experience, and incompatible with the established standards, but you still had to use it sometimes because some sites only worked with that?.


no.
 
2012-05-11 09:53:54 AM  
CNTRL-ALT-DEL
 
2012-05-11 09:54:01 AM  

Skyfrog: lectos: But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?

On the desktop yes, on ARM tablets they have to be Metro apps or they aren't allowed, and even then they have to be approved by Microsoft's app store.


Then I don't see many people buying it. If I spend $$$ on a system, I want to be able to run it as I want, not as they tell me to.
 
2012-05-11 09:54:43 AM  

indarwinsshadow: I'm using my desktop system less and less, and using my A500 tab more and more. So, I'm having hard time giving a rats ass what M$ does. 7 runs fine, and will probably be good until I eliminate the desktop in the next while. I never though I'd give up a desktop system, I guess I'm old school, but gotta say. I love my tablet.


Im guessing you didnt read the article since they are talking about a tablet specific version of windows.
 
2012-05-11 09:55:16 AM  

Gothnet: cardex: Has anyone found thi on a credible website, becouse I trust any scince or technology news from fox as much as I trust the unbiased political reporting

The Register is also running it. They're a pretty reliable tech-news site.


So is Ars Technica.
 
2012-05-11 09:55:21 AM  
Microsoft should be able to do whatever the fark they want.
It drives me nuts when lawyers and judges get to decide things like which browser need to be able to run on some OS.

Especially in a tablet world, they probably don't want Metro to get fragmented and farked up like is happening to Android. They don't want people to hate them because third party software ruins their UI.

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

// sad Android fan
 
2012-05-11 09:55:54 AM  

Alonjar: HeartBurnKid: Well, remember when Microsoft all-but-drove Netscape out of business, and we ended up with an Internet Explorer that was completely stagnant, missing a bunch of features that have become key to the browsing experience, and incompatible with the established standards, but you still had to use it sometimes because some sites only worked with that?.

no.


Then you have a very short memory.
 
2012-05-11 09:56:55 AM  

Gothnet: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: TBH the only thing that interests me about Windows-on-ARM is how cheap the devices are going to be, and how soon someone manages to make android or debian boot on them...


I'm pretty sure that there's a debian build somewhere that runs on my 2 slice toaster or the loose Nokia 5100 series phone in my basement. When I think of Linux in places you wouldn't expect it to run - my mind immediately goes to debian.
 
2012-05-11 09:57:03 AM  

Mumbler: Microsoft should be able to do whatever the fark they want.
It drives me nuts when lawyers and judges get to decide things like which browser need to be able to run on some OS.



Microsoft have been convicted of anti-trust, abusive, monopolistic behaviour on at least two continents. They don't get to play by their own rules any more because they can't be trusted.
 
2012-05-11 09:57:50 AM  

spentmiles: Internet Explorer does everything that I need it to do, like my taxes and banking, reports sports scores, and even gives me new recipes to try. I don't see why anyone would need any other browser because IE seems to have everything you can imagine inside of it. I've heard that Firefox doesn't even have Bing because it is too complex to run on the Mozilla OS. And believe me, as a Federal Judge, I take all of this into consideration when I rule on these cases.


6.5/10
Good. Not your best work though. I'm actualy disapointed.
 
2012-05-11 09:58:23 AM  
I'm sort of curious to see where this goes, since my computer usage tends to skip over the even Windows releases (more out of coincidence than Even Windows = bad).

They'll probably try something new in Windows 8 and it will fail -- hard -- but then they retool that into something slightly more useful in Windows 9 and by that point, I might be in the market for a computer upgrade.
 
2012-05-11 09:58:53 AM  

iantm: Gothnet: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: TBH the only thing that interests me about Windows-on-ARM is how cheap the devices are going to be, and how soon someone manages to make android or debian boot on them...

I'm pretty sure that there's a debian build somewhere that runs on my 2 slice toaster or the loose Nokia 5100 series phone in my basement. When I think of Linux in places you wouldn't expect it to run - my mind immediately goes to debian.


Problem is, part of the design spec for ARM-based WinRT tablets is that they must use Secure Boot. This poses a problem for anybody wanting to put an alternative OS on there; either they'll need to get their OS image signed by the tablet manufacturer (fat chance) or they'll need to hack around it.
 
2012-05-11 09:59:24 AM  

Trance750: Skyfrog: lectos: But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?

On the desktop yes, on ARM tablets they have to be Metro apps or they aren't allowed, and even then they have to be approved by Microsoft's app store.

Then I don't see many people buying it. If I spend $$$ on a system, I want to be able to run it as I want, not as they tell me to.


That seems reasonable, except look at Apple. They do the same thing and people rush to their stores to buy iPads.
 
2012-05-11 10:00:05 AM  
i190.photobucket.com
/Furry thread!
 
2012-05-11 10:00:05 AM  

Trance750: Skyfrog: lectos: But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?

On the desktop yes, on ARM tablets they have to be Metro apps or they aren't allowed, and even then they have to be approved by Microsoft's app store.

Then I don't see many people buying it. If I spend $$$ on a system, I want to be able to run it as I want, not as they tell me to.


You and me both. Unfortunately, it seems like we're the exception these days.
 
2012-05-11 10:00:37 AM  

HeartBurnKid: iantm: Gothnet: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: TBH the only thing that interests me about Windows-on-ARM is how cheap the devices are going to be, and how soon someone manages to make android or debian boot on them...

I'm pretty sure that there's a debian build somewhere that runs on my 2 slice toaster or the loose Nokia 5100 series phone in my basement. When I think of Linux in places you wouldn't expect it to run - my mind immediately goes to debian.

Problem is, part of the design spec for ARM-based WinRT tablets is that they must use Secure Boot. This poses a problem for anybody wanting to put an alternative OS on there; either they'll need to get their OS image signed by the tablet manufacturer (fat chance) or they'll need to hack around it.



It does seem that they're writing "No Linux allowed!" in big letters all over their boot sequence, which is precisely why some enterprising hacker will take the time to figure it out!
 
2012-05-11 10:01:08 AM  

hitlersbrain: Tablets are probably gonna die. They're stupid stripped down junk bought by chumps who don't know any better. Microsoft phones suck as well and will probably get steamrolled by Android.

It may not be a big deal unless somehow their phone OS takes off. I can't believe they renamed it again. Pegasus, CE 1.0 - infinity, Mobile 1.0 - infinity, CE Mobile...

I gave up after that.


I'll bet you still have a rotary phone because those newfangled touch-tone phones are just stripped down junk bought by chumps.

Full-sized desktops and laptops are what is going to die. They will not be needed in five to 10 years. Apple and others are already working on tablets that will wirelessly integrate with peripherals so that they can serve as desktops. In fact, Apple's about 90% there already. iPad is a prototype of things to come.
 
2012-05-11 10:01:26 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Alonjar: HeartBurnKid: Well, remember when Microsoft all-but-drove Netscape out of business, and we ended up with an Internet Explorer that was completely stagnant, missing a bunch of features that have become key to the browsing experience, and incompatible with the established standards, but you still had to use it sometimes because some sites only worked with that?.

no.

Then you have a very short memory.


He's probably 12 years old.
 
2012-05-11 10:01:28 AM  

Gothnet: Mumbler: Microsoft should be able to do whatever the fark they want.
It drives me nuts when lawyers and judges get to decide things like which browser need to be able to run on some OS.


Microsoft have been convicted of anti-trust, abusive, monopolistic behaviour on at least two continents. They don't get to play by their own rules any more because they can't be trusted.


How about the competition man up and create a competitor to windows. AND i dont mean linux i mean a REAL competator.

You wanna see MS shiat their pants? dont send them lawsuits over IE and Metro.. Give them TRUE competition for that 93% strangle hold they have had for the better part of 3 deckades.
 
2012-05-11 10:02:38 AM  

JackieRabbit: Full-sized desktops and laptops are what is going to die. They will not be needed in five to 10 years.


i.qkme.me
 
2012-05-11 10:03:09 AM  

Silverstaff: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

You can get other browsers for the iPad. I've got Opera on mine.


Not really. Apple doesn't allow anything other than Webkit to render HTML. There are other browsers but they all use the underlying Webkit installation on the phone. The Opera version for iOS doesn't actually have a render engine (so it's not technically a web browser). They fetch pages on a proxy server and then render them to a binary format before sending it to the phones. Now they do this for all platforms that Opera Mini runs on because its faster but thats the only way Apple would approve it as well. More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opera_Mini

It's neat but I personally find it a bit distasteful that all my browsing is going through a single company's proxy ...
 
2012-05-11 10:05:46 AM  

Skyfrog: Trance750: Skyfrog: lectos: But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?

On the desktop yes, on ARM tablets they have to be Metro apps or they aren't allowed, and even then they have to be approved by Microsoft's app store.

Then I don't see many people buying it. If I spend $$$ on a system, I want to be able to run it as I want, not as they tell me to.

That seems reasonable, except look at Apple. They do the same thing and people rush to their stores to buy iPads.


Yes, but IPad do not have a block that doesn't allow you to install 3rd party products. In fact, they embrace it

It seems that Microsoft will only let you use official Microsoft products (at least that's what I am gathering)
 
2012-05-11 10:06:28 AM  

poisonedpawn78: How about the competition man up and create a competitor to windows. AND i dont mean linux i mean a REAL competator.


You haven't even used Linux have you. This is the problem. It doesn't matter how great a competing OS someone makes as long as the mouth breathers continue to use Windows because it comes on their computer. Today's Linux can do anything Windows can and even run almost all Windows programs using Wine.
 
2012-05-11 10:06:46 AM  

poisonedpawn78: How about the competition man up and create a competitor to windows. AND i dont mean linux i mean a REAL competator.

You wanna see MS shiat their pants? dont send them lawsuits over IE and Metro.. Give them TRUE competition for that 93% strangle hold they have had for the better part of 3 deckades.


We're not talking about that. Anti-competitive behaviour is skewing the market in your favour. MS were shown to be pulling dirty tricks and throwing their weight around to keep other people's stuff off the shelves and unavailable. This is illegal. As a result people keep a closer eye on them and they must operate within a stricter set of rules than other companies.

Keeping other companies' software, whatever it is, off the tablet or away from the 'good' API calls could turn out to be illegal also, if it can be shown that this was done to edge out the competition.

Your childish bleating about linux is irrelevant here.
 
2012-05-11 10:06:51 AM  

poisonedpawn78: Give them TRUE competition for that 93% strangle hold they have had for the better part of 3 deckades.


Did you mean Deck AIDS?
www.meetmeonboard.com
 
2012-05-11 10:07:47 AM  

poisonedpawn78: Gothnet: Mumbler: Microsoft should be able to do whatever the fark they want.
It drives me nuts when lawyers and judges get to decide things like which browser need to be able to run on some OS.


Microsoft have been convicted of anti-trust, abusive, monopolistic behaviour on at least two continents. They don't get to play by their own rules any more because they can't be trusted.

How about the competition man up and create a competitor to windows. AND i dont mean linux i mean a REAL competator.

You wanna see MS shiat their pants? dont send them lawsuits over IE and Metro.. Give them TRUE competition for that 93% strangle hold they have had for the better part of 3 deckades.


It's been tried before (*cough*OS/2*cough*BeOS). Unfortunately, once you have that huge market share, it becomes a feedback loop; people buy Windows because all the software runs on it, and people write software for Windows because everybody uses it. The only other OS that has managed not to completely collapse against the Windows juggernaut is MacOS, and that will forever be a niche platform because of the way Apple licenses and markets it (which, ironically enough, is also the only reason it's still viable).
 
2012-05-11 10:08:54 AM  

Trance750: Yes, but IPad do not have a block that doesn't allow you to install 3rd party products. In fact, they embrace it


The iPad can only run apps from the Apple store, you can't just install anything you want on it unless you jailbreak it. The same goes for WinRT, no one is saying you can't run 3rd party programs on it. Microsoft is just saying that they have to be Metro apps and most likely they'll be obtained through the Microsoft store. What this article is about is using old classic Windows versions of programs won't be allowed. They have to be Metro apps.
 
2012-05-11 10:09:44 AM  

MythDragon: poisonedpawn78: Give them TRUE competition for that 93% strangle hold they have had for the better part of 3 deckades.

Did you mean Deck AIDS?
[www.meetmeonboard.com image 345x259]


Yeah im tired. 12 straight days working at a bank through quarter end. What i really meant was hot chick deck hands. Now go GIS me some please.
 
2012-05-11 10:10:36 AM  

CheekyMonkey: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did cman read the whole article? Including the part where it was stated that ARM chips are expected to be used in laptop and desktop systems as well, and that they were already being used in servers?

\guess not


You would not want to install RT on a desktop. It will be very limited. You cannot install arbitrary Win32 applications that you'd typically install on your desktop. For example, games, photo-editing software, development tools, you name it.
 
2012-05-11 10:12:28 AM  

This text is now purple: GoGoGadgetLiver: The Metro UI is actually driven by the browser engine. If they want to offer a fast and reliable UI they will need control over it. Let them whine all they want but I'm glad Microsoft is doing this. You can still put your own browser in, it just won't run the main UI of the operating system.

I don't see anyone whining that Chromebooks won't load a separate browser, or iOS, or Android.

Get over it.

That was true of Windows 98, as well.


Not exactly. Explorer.exe used it's own APIs to render. Here we're talking about winlogon->Explorer->IE/Metro->user. In Windows 98 you could swap a browser but it would still be Windows. In Windows 8 if you swap a browser it won't be Windows anymore...it would be Chromre or the like.
 
2012-05-11 10:14:05 AM  

Gothnet: Keeping other companies' software, whatever it is, off the tablet or away from the 'good' API calls could turn out to be illegal also, if it can be shown that this was done to edge out the competition.


I'm curious as to why this is such a big issue now that MS is talking about doing it. Apple and Google have been doing this with their phones and tablets for years now and nobody's really been talking about how anti-competitive they're being.
 
2012-05-11 10:15:03 AM  
I'm sure the five people planning on getting a windows tablet are crushed.
 
2012-05-11 10:15:16 AM  

xalres: I'm curious as to why this is such a big issue now that MS is talking about doing it. Apple and Google have been doing this with their phones and tablets for years now and nobody's really been talking about how anti-competitive they're being.


DO I have to say it again?

Monopoly Convicted of Antitrust Behaviour
 
2012-05-11 10:15:58 AM  

JackieRabbit: I don't use Windows (a tiny bit at work), so I don't care.

People still use Firefox? One would think that Chrome and Safari would be the end of it.


AdBlock Plus FTW. Still.
 
2012-05-11 10:16:21 AM  
There will be no DoJ action on this one and there shouldn't be. They acted last time to end a strangle hold Microsoft was putting on the PC browser arena with its 90%+ market share. This is simply not the same scenario. Microsoft is just now getting into tablets so effectively their market share is zero. There are a lot of already established choices for consumers and even the market leader (Apple) does not have a large enough share to warrant legal action in matters of anti-competitive behaviors (the exception being Apple's recent coercion with book publishers to manipulate prices, which spans beyond just their devices). If you don't want a device that is restricted to IE then get an Android tablet or iPad.
 
2012-05-11 10:16:23 AM  

HeartBurnKid: poisonedpawn78: Gothnet: Mumbler: Microsoft should be able to do whatever the fark they want.
It drives me nuts when lawyers and judges get to decide things like which browser need to be able to run on some OS.


Microsoft have been convicted of anti-trust, abusive, monopolistic behaviour on at least two continents. They don't get to play by their own rules any more because they can't be trusted.

How about the competition man up and create a competitor to windows. AND i dont mean linux i mean a REAL competator.

You wanna see MS shiat their pants? dont send them lawsuits over IE and Metro.. Give them TRUE competition for that 93% strangle hold they have had for the better part of 3 deckades.

It's been tried before (*cough*OS/2*cough*BeOS). Unfortunately, once you have that huge market share, it becomes a feedback loop; people buy Windows because all the software runs on it, and people write software for Windows because everybody uses it. The only other OS that has managed not to completely collapse against the Windows juggernaut is MacOS, and that will forever be a niche platform because of the way Apple licenses and markets it (which, ironically enough, is also the only reason it's still viable).


While i do agree with what you are saying and have seen it play out over the last 20 years, I DO think that with todays marketing and new generation it would be a LOT easier to make headway on this front. Especially if you embrace 3rd party companies to make their software compatible with your OS before you release it.

For example. Google could easily create an android for full desktop PC's given enough time. They could then go to 3rd party companies and help get their software compatible with it. Including gaming companies. Throw down a serious marketing campaign about how the new OS is better than windows (give some easily identifiable metrics for the average user where your OS beats windows) Throw in a celeb or two and i bet you dimes to dollars you have 30% market share to build from nearly instantly.

If MS took a 30% hit to their windows MS, Their would be a steaming pile so large on the corporate boardroom table that bill gates could smell it from africa.
 
2012-05-11 10:16:47 AM  

poisonedpawn78: What i dont understand is why MS is obligated to enable competition for itself.

The REAL way this should have worked is that MS Closes down windows for all MS products only forcing competators to come out with their own operating systems to rival windows.

Then we have TRUE competition.


You should take it a step further actually. Dell, Asus, Lenovo, Toshiba and other PC/laptop makers should only allow their own operating system on their own hardware. Microsoft should have to start designing/building hardware to put their OS on!
 
2012-05-11 10:17:59 AM  

xalres: Gothnet: Keeping other companies' software, whatever it is, off the tablet or away from the 'good' API calls could turn out to be illegal also, if it can be shown that this was done to edge out the competition.

I'm curious as to why this is such a big issue now that MS is talking about doing it. Apple and Google have been doing this with their phones and tablets for years now and nobody's really been talking about how anti-competitive they're being.


Basically no one has a monopoly on phones and tablets. That's why legally Microsoft can do this, even though everyone will scream about it while happily using Apple products who do the same thing. Microsoft became the villain when they abused their desktop OS monopoly back in the day and they are still seen as evil by many people.

Which is sad because companies like Apple and Google have been far more evil lately than Microsoft but hardly anyone cares.
 
2012-05-11 10:18:34 AM  

AKA Joker: There will be no DoJ action on this one and there shouldn't be. They acted last time to end a strangle hold Microsoft was putting on the PC browser arena with its 90%+ market share. This is simply not the same scenario. Microsoft is just now getting into tablets so effectively their market share is zero. There are a lot of already established choices for consumers and even the market leader (Apple) does not have a large enough share to warrant legal action in matters of anti-competitive behaviors (the exception being Apple's recent coercion with book publishers to manipulate prices, which spans beyond just their devices). If you don't want a device that is restricted to IE then get an Android tablet or iPad.


That kinda depends on what they do, if they can be shown to be abusing a monopoly position in one market in order to force an entrance into another, that could also be illegal.
I'm not convinced this is the case here, but theoretically you can still be convicted of anti-trust behaviour in a market you don't dominate.
 
2012-05-11 10:18:48 AM  

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


Did you read the article? The forecast is that the ARM chips are going to move into traditional laptops and desktops thereby removing all browser choice by the users.
 
2012-05-11 10:20:01 AM  

Hand Banana: Trance750: Yes, but IPad do not have a block that doesn't allow you to install 3rd party products. In fact, they embrace it

The iPad can only run apps from the Apple store, you can't just install anything you want on it unless you jailbreak it. The same goes for WinRT, no one is saying you can't run 3rd party programs on it. Microsoft is just saying that they have to be Metro apps and most likely they'll be obtained through the Microsoft store. What this article is about is using old classic Windows versions of programs won't be allowed. They have to be Metro apps.


Ahhh, Ok, thanks for the clarification.
 
2012-05-11 10:20:23 AM  

Gothnet: xalres: I'm curious as to why this is such a big issue now that MS is talking about doing it. Apple and Google have been doing this with their phones and tablets for years now and nobody's really been talking about how anti-competitive they're being.

DO I have to say it again?

Monopoly Convicted of Antitrust Behaviour


What does that have to do with what I was asking? Or are you saying that because they were convicted they have to be extra careful while their competition can engage in similar behavior without fear of something similar happening to them? I'm just curious as to why everyone but MS seems to get a pass on anti-competitive practices.
 
2012-05-11 10:20:48 AM  
Windows tablets. Who cares?
 
2012-05-11 10:21:27 AM  

Kar98: JackieRabbit: I don't use Windows (a tiny bit at work), so I don't care.

People still use Firefox? One would think that Chrome and Safari would be the end of it.

AdBlock Plus FTW. Still.


Ad Muncher makes Adblock look pathetic and it filters your network directly so it doesn't matter what browser or program you use. It is not free though so no one wants to use it.
 
2012-05-11 10:22:30 AM  

Generation_D: Oh Microsoft, just when I thought you were all grown up and had gotten over these kinds of adolescent antics.


This will certainly encourage third party developers to write for the Windows platform.
 
2012-05-11 10:23:25 AM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-05-11 10:23:51 AM  

Hand Banana: xalres: Gothnet: Keeping other companies' software, whatever it is, off the tablet or away from the 'good' API calls could turn out to be illegal also, if it can be shown that this was done to edge out the competition.

I'm curious as to why this is such a big issue now that MS is talking about doing it. Apple and Google have been doing this with their phones and tablets for years now and nobody's really been talking about how anti-competitive they're being.

Basically no one has a monopoly on phones and tablets. That's why legally Microsoft can do this, even though everyone will scream about it while happily using Apple products who do the same thing. Microsoft became the villain when they abused their desktop OS monopoly back in the day and they are still seen as evil by many people.

Which is sad because companies like Apple and Google have been far more evil lately than Microsoft but hardly anyone cares.


They're especially open and welcoming when it comes to developers. You can get an express version of their IDE with WP7 and Win8 project templates for free and go to town. Hell, you can't even write code for iOS devices without paying a fee to get access to their APIs and agreeing to give Apple some ridiculous percentage (20% I think) of any money you make selling your app on iTunes (and ONLY iTunes).
 
2012-05-11 10:24:31 AM  

waterrockets: [upload.wikimedia.org image 300x300]


upload.wikimedia.org

Ooooops. Multi-tab flub there. lmao
 
2012-05-11 10:25:41 AM  

Terrydatroll: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did you read the article? The forecast is that the ARM chips are going to move into traditional laptops and desktops thereby removing all browser choice by the users.


I don't believe that ARM chips will ever replace Intel x86 chips in desktops. They may become an option, but x86 isn't going away anytime soon. There's far too much software out there to do that. Remember the Itanium? It fell on it's face hard because no one was going to throw away decades of backwards compatibility with their old programs. Even if they did having an ARM chip in a desktop wouldn't mean it is going to be locked down like these tablets are. If it were no one would buy them imo.
 
2012-05-11 10:25:52 AM  
www.jcopro.net
 
2012-05-11 10:27:15 AM  
If this is just for tablets, there's probably no anti-trust case since Apple has the majority of that market, and Android is number two.
 
2012-05-11 10:27:58 AM  

Jument: CheekyMonkey: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did cman read the whole article? Including the part where it was stated that ARM chips are expected to be used in laptop and desktop systems as well, and that they were already being used in servers?

\guess not

You would not want to install RT on a desktop. It will be very limited. You cannot install arbitrary Win32 applications that you'd typically install on your desktop. For example, games, photo-editing software, development tools, you name it.


I've got an Android tablet that I'm pretty happy with, so I don't really care about this whole "controversy". It just kind of annoys me when someone who clearly hasn't read the whole article accuses some one else of not having read it.
 
2012-05-11 10:28:04 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Generation_D: Oh Microsoft, just when I thought you were all grown up and had gotten over these kinds of adolescent antics.

This will certainly encourage third party developers to write for the Windows platform.


I'll gladly write for their platform if I think I can make money doing it. Although i haven't investigated it yet, from what I've seen they're trying to make it easy to get into, unlike Apple..
 
2012-05-11 10:28:30 AM  

TheShavingofOccam123: Generation_D: Oh Microsoft, just when I thought you were all grown up and had gotten over these kinds of adolescent antics.

This will certainly encourage third party developers to write for the Windows platform.


So that explains why there is no software available on the iTunes store. I guess Apple shouldn't have locked down their devices, it drove all the developers away.
 
2012-05-11 10:28:35 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: HeartBurnKid: They're talking about WinRT, the ARM version of Win8. The desktop interface in WinRT ONLY allows you to run Microsoft-authorized software, and at this time there's only two planned: Office, and Internet Explorer. Not that the Metro interface is much better; on there, you can only run programs from Microsoft's app store. And, of course, the design spec for WinRT requires Secure Boot, which ensures that you will never be able to install a non-MS OS on there without some serious hacking.

WinRT is MS's attempt to iOS-ize Windows. I hope it fails.

Nope. Writing this from a winrt tablet with vlc, chrome, and a crapload of other stuff installed.

I'd like to know how you managed that, considering there aren't any WinRT tablets on the market yet and there are no WinRT ports of either Chrome or VLC. Are you using an x86 tablet with the Win8 Consumer Preview installed? Because Win8 and WinRT are not the same thing.


No shiat, sherlock. Never said I bought it that way. Development equipment, and all that jazz. Granted, its not great, but maybe they can get it where it needs to be.
 
2012-05-11 10:28:58 AM  

Hand Banana: Terrydatroll: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did you read the article? The forecast is that the ARM chips are going to move into traditional laptops and desktops thereby removing all browser choice by the users.

I don't believe that ARM chips will ever replace Intel x86 chips in desktops. They may become an option, but x86 isn't going away anytime soon. There's far too much software out there to do that. Remember the Itanium? It fell on it's face hard because no one was going to throw away decades of backwards compatibility with their old programs. Even if they did having an ARM chip in a desktop wouldn't mean it is going to be locked down like these tablets are. If it were no one would buy them imo.


Hope you are right. I wouldn't let my worst enemy use Internet Exploder.
 
2012-05-11 10:29:09 AM  

xalres: What does that have to do with what I was asking? Or are you saying that because they were convicted they have to be extra careful while their competition can engage in similar behavior without fear of something similar happening to them? I'm just curious as to why everyone but MS seems to get a pass on anti-competitive practices.


That's exactly what I'm saying, MS have to watch themselves now, as they have previously been convicted of monopolistic abuse in the US and in Europe, and been the subject of a variety of different fines and rulings. There are rules they must obey that others don't have to. Also they have a history of this stuff, so users also watch out for it and shout at them.

I honestly don't think people give apple much of a free pass any more, other than fanboys whose brains don't fully work and Google.... They do all sorts of dubious stuff, but I'm not sure you could call much of it anti-competitive. Anti-consumer, perhaps, anti-privacy, definitely, anti-competitive... not so much. I may be wrong on this.
 
2012-05-11 10:29:47 AM  
What are these tablets, OS, ARM, internet and other foolishness and wizardry you speak of?

media.bestofmicro.com
 
2012-05-11 10:32:19 AM  

CrispFlows: [cdn2.digitaltrends.com image 640x457]


got to have a chat with him. He's actually a really nice guy. I was surprised.
 
2012-05-11 10:34:58 AM  

Silverstaff: Is their new motto going to be "Microsoft: Just try to stop us now!"


MS has very 1.5% share in the tablet market. Apple has what, 68% of currently shipping tabs?

Microsoft cannot exploit a monopoly it doesn't have. However, if Apple is leveraging its dominance to engage in anti-competitive business practices (like locking down the OS to prevent competition), that surely will be of interest, that will surely be more interesting to the DoJ.
 
2012-05-11 10:35:05 AM  

JackieRabbit: hitlersbrain:

Full-sized desktops and laptops are what is going to die. They will not be needed in five to 10 years. Apple and others are already working on tablets that will wirelessly integrate with peripherals so that they can serve as desktops. In fact, Apple's about 90% there already. iPad is a prototype of things to come.


I have no interest in doing complex modelling or detailed spreadsheets using a tablet in the foreseeable future. Something tells me that you don't use a computer at work for anything more than email and fark.

That and you can pry my gaming PC from my cold dead hands.
 
2012-05-11 10:39:10 AM  

twiztedjustin: Windows tablets. Who cares?


this.
 
2012-05-11 10:40:52 AM  
Oh this is for tablets? Who the hell cares then?

I'll never give up my desktop. I don't trust any computer I didn't build myself. As for OS i usually install windows. A lot of the programs I use only work on windows and I like to play games. I suppose that with the way things are going gaming on a mac is possible now too but I'm comfortable with windows, I understand windows and to be honest I have had nothing but smooth sailing with windows over the years except for a brief install of windows ME. That was an abomination.

My usage kind of went like this...
Windows 3.1
Windows 95
Windows 98
Windows ME (about two months)
Windows 98
Windows XP (many years go by)
Windows 7

I gotta say windows 7 is pretty awesome. I'm having two issues with it right now but neither is a major one and I think it has more to do with my unfamiliarity with the OS than anything. I've only been using it for a couple of months.
 
2012-05-11 10:41:09 AM  

Gothnet: Mumbler: Microsoft should be able to do whatever the fark they want.
It drives me nuts when lawyers and judges get to decide things like which browser need to be able to run on some OS.


Microsoft have been convicted of anti-trust, abusive, monopolistic behaviour on at least two continents. They don't get to play by their own rules any more because they can't be trusted.


Under that line of thinking, Apple can't file patents any more.
 
2012-05-11 10:41:21 AM  
I have no intention of upgrading from 7 to 8. 7 works too perfectly for me to bother with the cost of upgrade, especially with them forcing the metro UI down my throat. I don't want to have to install third party mods and crap just to have the simple start menu back.
 
2012-05-11 10:43:35 AM  

Egoy3k: I gotta say windows 7 is pretty awesome. I'm having two issues with it right now but neither is a major one and I think it has more to do with my unfamiliarity with the OS than anything. I've only been using it for a couple of months.


What issues are they? I bet someone will have a solution for you within a few posts.

Based on what I've seen of Windows 8 so far I'll probably be sticking with 7 until they kill off support for it. That will be a very long time, and by then I bet Linux will be so good it won't matter anymore.
 
2012-05-11 10:43:42 AM  

This text is now purple: Gothnet: Mumbler: Microsoft should be able to do whatever the fark they want.
It drives me nuts when lawyers and judges get to decide things like which browser need to be able to run on some OS.


Microsoft have been convicted of anti-trust, abusive, monopolistic behaviour on at least two continents. They don't get to play by their own rules any more because they can't be trusted.

Under that line of thinking, Apple can't file patents any more.


It's not a line of thinking, it's a legal situation...

Well ok, it's also a line of thinking. And I agree, the patent wars going on at the moment are ludicrous.
 
2012-05-11 10:44:13 AM  

Terrydatroll: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did you read the article? The forecast is that the ARM chips are going to move into traditional laptops and desktops thereby removing all browser choice by the users.


I remember that same article from 1997.
 
2012-05-11 10:46:07 AM  

BioStormX: I have no intention of upgrading from 7 to 8. 7 works too perfectly for me to bother with the cost of upgrade, especially with them forcing the metro UI down my throat. I don't want to have to install third party mods and crap just to have the simple start menu back.


You mean like windows 7? Only way I have found to get the simple start menu back is through 3rd party software. Other than that and you can't click your browser in the task bar to open a second browser I like it. I preferred the old task bar.
 
2012-05-11 10:46:46 AM  

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


Actually no, its going to be an App store like system for Metro where you have a number of apps to choose from which will run on any Windows 8 device. If Microsoft isn't allowing other browsers in ARM they aren't allowing other browsers in Metro apps. So this affects anyone who wishes to primarily stay in the Metro interface, which many businesses might, as it is safer from a virus standpoint. Apple locked out competing browsers at first in iOS, then they changed their stance, hopefully Microsoft will change, but I doubt it.
 
2012-05-11 10:49:01 AM  

Hand Banana: xalres: Gothnet: Keeping other companies' software, whatever it is, off the tablet or away from the 'good' API calls could turn out to be illegal also, if it can be shown that this was done to edge out the competition.

I'm curious as to why this is such a big issue now that MS is talking about doing it. Apple and Google have been doing this with their phones and tablets for years now and nobody's really been talking about how anti-competitive they're being.

Basically no one has a monopoly on phones and tablets. That's why legally Microsoft can do this, even though everyone will scream about it while happily using Apple products who do the same thing. Microsoft became the villain when they abused their desktop OS monopoly back in the day and they are still seen as evil by many people.

Which is sad because companies like Apple and Google have been far more evil lately than Microsoft but hardly anyone cares.


OK, I can see the argument for Apple considering that their "walled garden" is vendor lock-in on a scale MS could only dream of, but what the hell has Google done that ranks on the same scale as Microsoft?
 
2012-05-11 10:49:22 AM  

Millennium: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?

The chip isn't the problem. Both Firefox and Chrome can be compiled to run on ARM chips. The problem here is the operating system.

Right now, Windows and Mac don't actually try to block other browsers from running. It sounds like WinRT 8 might do this, though. When an OS is actively trying to stop you from running, getting around those blocks can become a big problem.


They mentioned Win32 libraries. These allow low level programming which makes a program faster and smaller. If they do not expose these (or something LIKE them) then writing something like a browser would be pretty close to impossible (at least not a browser anyone would want to use or could fit on their machine).

The current development framework MS is pushing is dot net, which is a rip off of Java. It's a good framework for small to medium stuff (business junk like I write where performance does not matter) but since it is never actually compiled (or compiled every-single-time-the app-runs) it will get destroyed by a native application performance-wise.
 
2012-05-11 10:51:32 AM  
Like making FORD use a Chevy parts. Dont like it? MAke your own damn operating system!!
 
2012-05-11 10:52:07 AM  

mothak: I have no interest in doing complex modelling or detailed spreadsheets using a tablet in the foreseeable future. Something tells me that you don't use a computer at work for anything more than email and fark.


You understand the idea is to make tablets dock with other peripherals, right? It's already happening. Look at the Transformer line from Asus. You can dock to a clamshell keyboard with touchpad, attach a mouse if you want, output via HDMI to a monitor/TV with Office support. VM solutions are springing up such as PlayOn's mobile desktop that let you use a full Office suite. Think tanks like Gartner are even playing up this trending as "[blank] as a service" gets more prevalence in the market.

It's not a certainty that desktops are going to die in the near future, for sure. But to say they will never go away as the dominant computing platform shows a severe lack of forecasting.
 
2012-05-11 10:52:43 AM  

Joe Blowme: Like making FORD use a Chevy parts. Dont like it? MAke your own damn operating system!!


Nobody's going to stop me from dropping a Chevy engine into a Ford. Your analogy is broken.
 
2012-05-11 10:53:08 AM  

MindStalker: Apple locked out competing browsers at first in iOS, then they changed their stance, hopefully Microsoft will change, but I doubt it.


Apple's default stance is anti-competitive - they'll lock out browsers until someone threatens. They'll lock out Google Voice, until someone threatens a suit. They'll ban publishers, and open it up when the insulted party dies.

Eventually someone is going to get pissed off enough that a policy change isn't going to be enough, and they'll demand past damages.

Eventually a government agency will have enough evidence that this is a pattern of behavior and act against it.
 
2012-05-11 10:53:30 AM  

HeartBurnKid: OK, I can see the argument for Apple considering that their "walled garden" is vendor lock-in on a scale MS could only dream of, but what the hell has Google done that ranks on the same scale as Microsoft?


The recent Wi-Fi snooping thing comes to mind. Also their cloud storage service where they put in the terms of use that they own everything you upload and can do whatever they want with it (not sure if they ever changed that after the outcry). Google is a marketing company, they exist for the sole purpose of harvesting your personal information and selling it.
 
2012-05-11 10:55:10 AM  
Microsoft learned it monopolitistic anti-competitive practices from the best.

www.aerojockey.com
 
2012-05-11 10:57:56 AM  
Given that Windows 8 is going to be a failure that makes Microsoft Bob look like a runaway blockbuster, I don't think this is going to be a problem.
 
2012-05-11 10:58:45 AM  

Skyfrog: Based on what I've seen of Windows 8 so far I'll probably be sticking with 7 until they kill off support for it. That will be a very long time, and by then I bet Linux will be so good it won't matter anymore.


LOL don't hold your breath. The linux-heads have been saying that for 20 years and it's still behind in terms of being usable on a desktop.

I agree about win7 though. No reason to look at win8 at all as it's very well done, doesn't get in the way and just works.
 
2012-05-11 10:58:48 AM  

JackieRabbit: I'll bet you still have a rotary phone because those newfangled touch-tone phones are just stripped down junk bought by chumps.

Full-sized desktops and laptops are what is going to die. They will not be needed in five to 10 years. Apple and others are already working on tablets that will wirelessly integrate with peripherals so that they can serve as desktops. In fact, Apple's about 90% there already. iPad is a prototype of things to come.


No, my wife made me by an Android. It's okay. I can't see desktops ever really going away because why wouldn't a computer perform better with all that space? It's really keen (I guess) that you can cram a computer into something small but could you not cram MORE into a desktop? And make it user upgradable? With lots of fans and heat sinks to keep the heat down on high performance hardware?
 
2012-05-11 10:58:57 AM  

Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: OK, I can see the argument for Apple considering that their "walled garden" is vendor lock-in on a scale MS could only dream of, but what the hell has Google done that ranks on the same scale as Microsoft?

The recent Wi-Fi snooping thing comes to mind. Also their cloud storage service where they put in the terms of use that they own everything you upload and can do whatever they want with it (not sure if they ever changed that after the outcry). Google is a marketing company, they exist for the sole purpose of harvesting your personal information and selling it.


What ever happened to the old Google? You know, the one that lived by the motto "don't be evil."
 
2012-05-11 11:03:18 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Joe Blowme: Like making FORD use a Chevy parts. Dont like it? MAke your own damn operating system!!

Nobody's going to stop me from dropping a Chevy engine into a Ford. Your analogy is broken.


Doesnt matter, if ford set up theior cars to not work with a chevy you cant sue them for it. THINK, its what your brain is for dude
 
2012-05-11 11:03:30 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: xalres: Gothnet: Keeping other companies' software, whatever it is, off the tablet or away from the 'good' API calls could turn out to be illegal also, if it can be shown that this was done to edge out the competition.

I'm curious as to why this is such a big issue now that MS is talking about doing it. Apple and Google have been doing this with their phones and tablets for years now and nobody's really been talking about how anti-competitive they're being.

Basically no one has a monopoly on phones and tablets. That's why legally Microsoft can do this, even though everyone will scream about it while happily using Apple products who do the same thing. Microsoft became the villain when they abused their desktop OS monopoly back in the day and they are still seen as evil by many people.

Which is sad because companies like Apple and Google have been far more evil lately than Microsoft but hardly anyone cares.

OK, I can see the argument for Apple considering that their "walled garden" is vendor lock-in on a scale MS could only dream of, but what the hell has Google done that ranks on the same scale as Microsoft?


Collecting SSIDs, MAC addresses and other information (including traffic and emails from unsecured networks) from people's wireless networks as their street view cars drove past for starters. Their response was "Yeah, but we won't use that information for anything untoward, trust us."
 
2012-05-11 11:03:39 AM  

GoGoGadgetLiver: I don't see anyone whining that Chromebooks won't load a separate browser, or iOS, or Android.


Because they DO. Sheesh.
 
2012-05-11 11:04:34 AM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


There is an explanation in the article, if you read it.
 
2012-05-11 11:05:11 AM  

Slam Dunkz: LOL don't hold your breath. The linux-heads have been saying that for 20 years and it's still behind in terms of being usable on a desktop.


Have you actually used it recently or are you just repeating decades old complaints about it. The last time I tried it was a few years ago and it was quite usable on the desktop. What about it is giving you trouble? Just curious, because I thought it worked fine.
 
2012-05-11 11:07:09 AM  

This About That: This is why tablet and smartphone software is toy-like and restrictive.


And nothing to do with battery power, smaller screens, and touch interfaces.
 
2012-05-11 11:07:50 AM  
Anybody have a report from a more reliable source? I don't trust Fake News.
 
2012-05-11 11:08:22 AM  
Worst case scenario - Google writes a REAL operating system (not just a glorified browser). It would be nice to have a choice other than Windows, Apple and that dysfunctional pile of ancient, unfinished garbage Unix (linux, ubuntu, on and on ad nausea).
 
2012-05-11 11:10:39 AM  

Hand Banana: Slam Dunkz: LOL don't hold your breath. The linux-heads have been saying that for 20 years and it's still behind in terms of being usable on a desktop.

Have you actually used it recently or are you just repeating decades old complaints about it. The last time I tried it was a few years ago and it was quite usable on the desktop. What about it is giving you trouble? Just curious, because I thought it worked fine.


I have Ubuntu on my laptop. If you ain't a techie, it ain't happening.
 
2012-05-11 11:10:50 AM  

GoGoGadgetLiver: The Metro UI is actually driven by the browser engine. If they want to offer a fast and reliable UI they will need control over it. Let them whine all they want but I'm glad Microsoft is doing this. You can still put your own browser in, it just won't run the main UI of the operating system.

I don't see anyone whining that Chromebooks won't load a separate browser, or iOS, or Android.

Get over it.


You've never owned an iphone or android phone have you?
 
2012-05-11 11:11:27 AM  

spentmiles: Internet Explorer does everything that I need it to do, like my taxes and banking, reports sports scores, and even gives me new recipes to try. I don't see why anyone would need any other browser because IE seems to have everything you can imagine inside of it. I've heard that Firefox doesn't even have Bing because it is too complex to run on the Mozilla OS. And believe me, as a Federal Judge, I take all of this into consideration when I rule on these cases.


i605.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-11 11:14:14 AM  

hitlersbrain: They mentioned Win32 libraries. These allow low level programming which makes a program faster and smaller. If they do not expose these (or something LIKE them) then writing something like a browser would be pretty close to impossible (at least not a browser anyone would want to use or could fit on their machine).


Actually, libraries exist to enable higher-level programming, not lower-level programming, but other than that, you've got a good point here.

Hmm. So it's a matter of Win32 libraries not existing on WinRT. Does this mean we're going to need a port of Wine to Windows?
 
2012-05-11 11:16:07 AM  
www.moviefancentral.com
 
2012-05-11 11:16:51 AM  

CheekyMonkey: Jument: CheekyMonkey: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did cman read the whole article? Including the part where it was stated that ARM chips are expected to be used in laptop and desktop systems as well, and that they were already being used in servers?

\guess not

You would not want to install RT on a desktop. It will be very limited. You cannot install arbitrary Win32 applications that you'd typically install on your desktop. For example, games, photo-editing software, development tools, you name it.

I've got an Android tablet that I'm pretty happy with, so I don't really care about this whole "controversy". It just kind of annoys me when someone who clearly hasn't read the whole article accuses some one else of not having read it.


Did you stop to think that perhaps when they say that laptops and desktops are "expected" to be using ARM chips that perhaps that is merely speculation and not a gospel fact? The x86 architecture is not going to go anywhere anytime soon (if ever). ARM chips just aren't robust enough to handle what a standard desktop/laptop CPU can. And for the issue of them stating that servers are using ARM chips, that's more than likely used simply for back-end, low level processing to alleviate some pressure from the main CPU; possibly to reduce power consumption as well. There is no possible way a main production server is going to rely solely on an ARM processor, it's just not going to happen. Stop acting like someone pissed in your Cheerios.
 
2012-05-11 11:17:39 AM  

GoGoGadgetLiver: The Metro UI is actually driven by the browser engine. If they want to offer a fast and reliable UI they will need control over it. Let them whine all they want but I'm glad Microsoft is doing this. You can still put your own browser in, it just won't run the main UI of the operating system.

I don't see anyone whining that Chromebooks won't load a separate browser, or iOS, or Android.

Get over it.


I don't know about iOS, but I can run many different browsers on my Android device, and do.
 
2012-05-11 11:18:26 AM  
My crystal ball is crying out massive losses for every OEM dumb enough to ship Windows 8. It will be transformational for the industry, and many companies will not survive the transition.
 
2012-05-11 11:22:44 AM  

Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: OK, I can see the argument for Apple considering that their "walled garden" is vendor lock-in on a scale MS could only dream of, but what the hell has Google done that ranks on the same scale as Microsoft?

The recent Wi-Fi snooping thing comes to mind. Also their cloud storage service where they put in the terms of use that they own everything you upload and can do whatever they want with it (not sure if they ever changed that after the outcry). Google is a marketing company, they exist for the sole purpose of harvesting your personal information and selling it.


You're talking about apples and oranges here. Those practices are wrong, to be sure, but we're talking about locked platforms here. Android is open to a fault.
 
2012-05-11 11:24:41 AM  

Hand Banana: Slam Dunkz: LOL don't hold your breath. The linux-heads have been saying that for 20 years and it's still behind in terms of being usable on a desktop.

Have you actually used it recently or are you just repeating decades old complaints about it. The last time I tried it was a few years ago and it was quite usable on the desktop. What about it is giving you trouble? Just curious, because I thought it worked fine.


I've been using it since I was Comp Sci student 20 years ago. Every few years I give it a try again to see where it's at. It's functional, it's a great server OS, but it's a second-rate desktop experience. That's the way it's been for the last 20 years and it's not going to ever catch up because that's what it's always doing. Responding to changes in the "real" desktop OSes and trying to mimic them.
 
2012-05-11 11:25:03 AM  

MindStalker: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Actually no, its going to be an App store like system for Metro where you have a number of apps to choose from which will run on any Windows 8 device. If Microsoft isn't allowing other browsers in ARM they aren't allowing other browsers in Metro apps. So this affects anyone who wishes to primarily stay in the Metro interface, which many businesses might, as it is safer from a virus standpoint. Apple locked out competing browsers at first in iOS, then they changed their stance, hopefully Microsoft will change, but I doubt it.


Actually no, it's going to be for Windows Classic. Here, I'll help.

FTA:

"prohibits any browser but Internet Explorer from running the classic Windows desktop."

The MetroUI and Windows Classic are two separate things. And from a business standpoint, MetroUI would be a productivity abortion. There's a reason major corporations aren't using iPads and Android tablets for data creation. For data consumption, tablets can't be beat (cost wise). But if you want your workers to actually work, a slick MetroUI, iOS, Android system isn't going to do it.
 
2012-05-11 11:26:22 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: OK, I can see the argument for Apple considering that their "walled garden" is vendor lock-in on a scale MS could only dream of, but what the hell has Google done that ranks on the same scale as Microsoft?

The recent Wi-Fi snooping thing comes to mind. Also their cloud storage service where they put in the terms of use that they own everything you upload and can do whatever they want with it (not sure if they ever changed that after the outcry). Google is a marketing company, they exist for the sole purpose of harvesting your personal information and selling it.

You're talking about apples and oranges here. Those practices are wrong, to be sure, but we're talking about locked platforms here. Android is open to a fault.


Evil practices are evil, it doesn't have to involve locking platforms. So because Android is open you are ok with all the other crap that Google does?
 
2012-05-11 11:26:36 AM  

Millennium: Hmm. So it's a matter of Win32 libraries not existing on WinRT. Does this mean we're going to need a port of Wine to Windows?


Pretty sure it's more along the lines of Metro Apps being restricted to an API subset, and MS not allowing non-Metro apps onto the system from third parties, in WinRT.

Also, sorry, it's pedantic but..... Wine isn't going to help, it only runs on x86 hardware. It implements a lot of windows interfaces and runs windows programs, but it's not a CPU emulator. For instance you can't run it on linux on arm, sparc, itanium etc.
 
2012-05-11 11:30:31 AM  
Don't really care about the browser much, as long as it doesn't constantly redirect me to Bing - what a sack of crap that is.

Except for their attitude, their ineptitude, and their bloated slug of what they call code slammed out by the 10,000 monkeys they have locked in a room, I have no issues with MSoft.
 
2012-05-11 11:31:04 AM  

Gothnet: Millennium: Hmm. So it's a matter of Win32 libraries not existing on WinRT. Does this mean we're going to need a port of Wine to Windows?

Pretty sure it's more along the lines of Metro Apps being restricted to an API subset, and MS not allowing non-Metro apps onto the system from third parties, in WinRT.

Also, sorry, it's pedantic but..... Wine isn't going to help, it only runs on x86 hardware. It implements a lot of windows interfaces and runs windows programs, but it's not a CPU emulator. For instance you can't run it on linux on arm, sparc, itanium etc.


It can run on any platform that it is ported to.

http://wiki.winehq.org/ARM
 
2012-05-11 11:32:22 AM  

Hand Banana: Gothnet: Millennium: Hmm. So it's a matter of Win32 libraries not existing on WinRT. Does this mean we're going to need a port of Wine to Windows?

Pretty sure it's more along the lines of Metro Apps being restricted to an API subset, and MS not allowing non-Metro apps onto the system from third parties, in WinRT.

Also, sorry, it's pedantic but..... Wine isn't going to help, it only runs on x86 hardware. It implements a lot of windows interfaces and runs windows programs, but it's not a CPU emulator. For instance you can't run it on linux on arm, sparc, itanium etc.

It can run on any platform that it is ported to.


Nevermind, I misread your post. You're right it would not be able to run x86 apps on ARM.
 
2012-05-11 11:33:27 AM  

Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: OK, I can see the argument for Apple considering that their "walled garden" is vendor lock-in on a scale MS could only dream of, but what the hell has Google done that ranks on the same scale as Microsoft?

The recent Wi-Fi snooping thing comes to mind. Also their cloud storage service where they put in the terms of use that they own everything you upload and can do whatever they want with it (not sure if they ever changed that after the outcry). Google is a marketing company, they exist for the sole purpose of harvesting your personal information and selling it.

You're talking about apples and oranges here. Those practices are wrong, to be sure, but we're talking about locked platforms here. Android is open to a fault.

Evil practices are evil, it doesn't have to involve locking platforms. So because Android is open you are ok with all the other crap that Google does?


No, but we're discussing locked platforms here. That is the subject of this thread; that Microsoft is locking down their platform. Again, we're talking about apples, and you're talking about oranges.
 
2012-05-11 11:33:53 AM  

Drasancas: The problem is that of a monopoly. To do so on the desktop/laptop OS would essentially establish one, outside of the tiny Mac/Linux shares.

Doing so on one of their little devices doesn't. There's so many tablet devices available, it's not funny.


This bears repeating. Microsoft doesn't have anywhere near a monopoly on mobile devices like it does on desktops and notebooks.
 
2012-05-11 11:34:28 AM  
Imagine if the NT branch of Windows was never conceived where we'd be at.. I loved NT4 and laughed at my friends for years and years who were suffering with Windows 95, 98, and Me. While I was going weeks without rebooting on NT4 or Win2k.
 
2012-05-11 11:35:51 AM  

Fuggin Bizzy: This bears repeating. Microsoft doesn't have anywhere near a monopoly on mobile devices like it does on desktops and notebooks.


And it probably won't unless you like attaching a car battery to your cell phones.

/nothing worse than repeating bears
 
2012-05-11 11:37:30 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: OK, I can see the argument for Apple considering that their "walled garden" is vendor lock-in on a scale MS could only dream of, but what the hell has Google done that ranks on the same scale as Microsoft?

The recent Wi-Fi snooping thing comes to mind. Also their cloud storage service where they put in the terms of use that they own everything you upload and can do whatever they want with it (not sure if they ever changed that after the outcry). Google is a marketing company, they exist for the sole purpose of harvesting your personal information and selling it.

You're talking about apples and oranges here. Those practices are wrong, to be sure, but we're talking about locked platforms here. Android is open to a fault.

Evil practices are evil, it doesn't have to involve locking platforms. So because Android is open you are ok with all the other crap that Google does?

No, but we're discussing locked platforms here. That is the subject of this thread; that Microsoft is locking down their platform. Again, we're talking about apples, and you're talking about oranges.


No, I was saying that companies like Apple and Google are routinely doing things just as underhanded as Microsoft ever did back in the old days, and you're being an Android fanboy and trying deny that your precious Google does anything wrong with your apples and oranges nonsense.
 
2012-05-11 11:40:47 AM  
Valve's Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_linux_dampfn u deln&num=1

"Valve and Gabe Newell's interest in Linux goes beyond what would be expected of any normal game company, but Valve is certainly a unique beast. Listening to Gabe Newell talk about Linux for hours made me wonder whether he was a former ex-Microsoft employee (where he actually did work in his pre-Valve days in the 90's) or the director of the Linux Foundation. His level of Linux interest and commitment was incredible while his negativity for Windows 8 and the future of Microsoft was stunning. In fact, as soon as I return to my office this weekend I plan to try out Windows 8 simply to see if it's as bad as Gabe state"

Bottom line, M$ is cutting their own throat. They have just driven away their most important developer, and he's a Linux fan. Where the games go, the users will follow. I only use Win7 for two things, games and Blu-ray, and I can buy a cheap blu-ray player if the game devs start doing everything in OpenGL/OpenCL.
 
2012-05-11 11:40:53 AM  

HatMadeOfAss: CheekyMonkey: Jument: CheekyMonkey: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did cman read the whole article? Including the part where it was stated that ARM chips are expected to be used in laptop and desktop systems as well, and that they were already being used in servers?

\guess not

You would not want to install RT on a desktop. It will be very limited. You cannot install arbitrary Win32 applications that you'd typically install on your desktop. For example, games, photo-editing software, development tools, you name it.

I've got an Android tablet that I'm pretty happy with, so I don't really care about this whole "controversy". It just kind of annoys me when someone who clearly hasn't read the whole article accuses some one else of not having read it.

Did you stop to think that perhaps when they say that laptops and desktops are "expected" to be using ARM chips that perhaps that is merely speculation and not a gospel fact? The x86 architecture is not going to go anywhere anytime soon (if ever). ARM chips just aren't robust enough to handle what a standard desktop/laptop CPU can. And for the issue of them stating that servers are using ARM chips, that's more than likely used simply for back-end, low level processing to alleviate some pressure from the main CPU; possibly to reduce power consumption as well. There is no possible way a main production server is going to rely solely on an ARM processor, it's just not going to happen. Stop acting like someone pissed in your Cheerios.


Again, I don't really care about the whole issue. I was just busting cman's balls. Please check the website on which you are currently posting. Does it say Fark.com? If so, get a grip, and stop pretending that I pissed in your Cheerios.
 
2012-05-11 11:41:22 AM  

ThreeEdgedSword: [i789.photobucket.com image 640x402]


I love it... @_@

In other news: Windows 8 sounds horrible.
 
2012-05-11 11:42:35 AM  

rosebud_the_sled: Don't really care about the browser much, as long as it doesn't constantly redirect me to Bing - what a sack of crap that is.


If you're browser is redirecting you to Bing you simply don't have it set properly. Actually Bing isn't that bad, its results are usually as good as Google and in some cases better, though overall Google still has the edge. There is supposed to be a big upgrade to Bing coming soon also. Now this is for the US though, in other countries I understand that Bing really sucks.
 
2012-05-11 11:45:43 AM  
Anyone stupid enough to buy an OS with that hideous Metro UI (I know! Let's make Windows look like Wired Magazine from the 1990's! That's the ticket!) deserves to get stuck with one browser.
 
2012-05-11 11:47:47 AM  

Ed Grubermann: Anyone stupid enough to buy an OS with that hideous Metro UI (I know! Let's make Windows look like Wired Magazine from the 1990's! That's the ticket!) deserves to get stuck with one browser.


Well I do hate Metro, but the headline isn't true. You can use any browser you want on Metro, just not a classic Windows version on WinRT tablets. Desktops have no restriction at all.
 
2012-05-11 11:49:42 AM  

CheekyMonkey: HatMadeOfAss: CheekyMonkey: Jument: CheekyMonkey: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did cman read the whole article? Including the part where it was stated that ARM chips are expected to be used in laptop and desktop systems as well, and that they were already being used in servers?

\guess not

You would not want to install RT on a desktop. It will be very limited. You cannot install arbitrary Win32 applications that you'd typically install on your desktop. For example, games, photo-editing software, development tools, you name it.

I've got an Android tablet that I'm pretty happy with, so I don't really care about this whole "controversy". It just kind of annoys me when someone who clearly hasn't read the whole article accuses some one else of not having read it.

Did you stop to think that perhaps when they say that laptops and desktops are "expected" to be using ARM chips that perhaps that is merely speculation and not a gospel fact? The x86 architecture is not going to go anywhere anytime soon (if ever). ARM chips just aren't robust enough to handle what a standard desktop/laptop CPU can. And for the issue of them stating that servers are using ARM chips, that's more than likely used simply for back-end, low level processing to alleviate some pressure from the main CPU; possibly to reduce power consumption as well. There is no possible way a main production server is going to rely solely on an ARM processor, it's just not going to happen. Stop acting like someone pissed in your Cheerios.

Again, I don't really care about the whole issue. I was just busting cman's balls. Please check the website on which you are currently posting. Does it say Fark.com? If so, get a grip, and stop pretending that I pissed in your Cheerios.


Don't like getting called out and subsequently proven wrong? It sucks being wrong. You should stop doing it.

/Be sure to look behind you as you backpedal
//Wouldn't want you to fall
///welcometofark.jpg
 
2012-05-11 11:50:17 AM  

Jarhead_h: Valve's Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_linux_dampfn u deln&num=1

"Valve and Gabe Newell's interest in Linux goes beyond what would be expected of any normal game company, but Valve is certainly a unique beast. Listening to Gabe Newell talk about Linux for hours made me wonder whether he was a former ex-Microsoft employee (where he actually did work in his pre-Valve days in the 90's) or the director of the Linux Foundation. His level of Linux interest and commitment was incredible while his negativity for Windows 8 and the future of Microsoft was stunning. In fact, as soon as I return to my office this weekend I plan to try out Windows 8 simply to see if it's as bad as Gabe state"

Bottom line, M$ is cutting their own throat. They have just driven away their most important developer, and he's a Linux fan. Where the games go, the users will follow. I only use Win7 for two things, games and Blu-ray, and I can buy a cheap blu-ray player if the game devs start doing everything in OpenGL/OpenCL.


You might not believe me, but I was planning on tying that in to the topic at hand. I was gonna go with the whole "general pattern" angle. Then I forgot and posted it. Oh, well.
 
2012-05-11 11:50:18 AM  
And to be honest, isn't Windows like Photoshop at this point for most people? Everyone has it and no one ever pays for it.
 
2012-05-11 11:57:32 AM  

Gothnet: Millennium: Hmm. So it's a matter of Win32 libraries not existing on WinRT. Does this mean we're going to need a port of Wine to Windows?

Pretty sure it's more along the lines of Metro Apps being restricted to an API subset, and MS not allowing non-Metro apps onto the system from third parties, in WinRT.

Also, sorry, it's pedantic but..... Wine isn't going to help, it only runs on x86 hardware. It implements a lot of windows interfaces and runs windows programs, but it's not a CPU emulator. For instance you can't run it on linux on arm, sparc, itanium etc.


My bad: what I was actually talking about was winelib (which is part of the Wine project, but not the part people tend to think about when you mention Wine). That could really help with porting applications over.
 
2012-05-11 11:58:42 AM  

Jarhead_h: Bottom line, M$ is cutting their own throat. They have just driven away their most important developer, and he's a Linux fan. Where the games go, the users will follow. I only use Win7 for two things, games and Blu-ray, and I can buy a cheap blu-ray player if the game devs start doing everything in OpenGL/OpenCL.


I'm in the camp that thinks Valve's pull to Linux is related to the rumours of a Steambox. Source games running natively, and a wine wrapper (a la Google's Picasa) for whatever else they can manage to run on a set hardware platform.
 
2012-05-11 12:09:43 PM  

HatMadeOfAss: CheekyMonkey: HatMadeOfAss: CheekyMonkey: Jument: CheekyMonkey: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did cman read the whole article? Including the part where it was stated that ARM chips are expected to be used in laptop and desktop systems as well, and that they were already being used in servers?

\guess not

You would not want to install RT on a desktop. It will be very limited. You cannot install arbitrary Win32 applications that you'd typically install on your desktop. For example, games, photo-editing software, development tools, you name it.

I've got an Android tablet that I'm pretty happy with, so I don't really care about this whole "controversy". It just kind of annoys me when someone who clearly hasn't read the whole article accuses some one else of not having read it.

Did you stop to think that perhaps when they say that laptops and desktops are "expected" to be using ARM chips that perhaps that is merely speculation and not a gospel fact? The x86 architecture is not going to go anywhere anytime soon (if ever). ARM chips just aren't robust enough to handle what a standard desktop/laptop CPU can. And for the issue of them stating that servers are using ARM chips, that's more than likely used simply for back-end, low level processing to alleviate some pressure from the main CPU; possibly to reduce power consumption as well. There is no possible way a main production server is going to rely solely on an ARM processor, it's just not going to happen. Stop acting like someone pissed in your Cheerios.

Again, I don't really care about the whole issue. I was just busting cman's balls. Please check the website on which you are currently posting. Does it say Fark.com? If so, get a grip, and stop pretending that I pissed in your Cheerios.

Don't like getting called out and subsequently proven wrong? It sucks be ...


Not really sure what you think I was "proven wrong" about. I quoted the article. Are you implying that what I quoted was not in the article? That's just silly. You're trying to "call me out" for something I didn't do. Good luck with that, I have lunch to attend to.
 
2012-05-11 12:13:03 PM  

Hand Banana: Slam Dunkz: LOL don't hold your breath. The linux-heads have been saying that for 20 years and it's still behind in terms of being usable on a desktop.

Have you actually used it recently or are you just repeating decades old complaints about it. The last time I tried it was a few years ago and it was quite usable on the desktop. What about it is giving you trouble? Just curious, because I thought it worked fine.


Linux is perfectly usable on phones and Chromebooks. You can use a Chromebook on top of a desk...

Linux is getting better and better, as there are millions of users who don't even know they're running Linux.
 
2012-05-11 12:16:12 PM  

CheekyMonkey: HatMadeOfAss: CheekyMonkey: HatMadeOfAss: CheekyMonkey: Jument: CheekyMonkey: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did cman read the whole article? Including the part where it was stated that ARM chips are expected to be used in laptop and desktop systems as well, and that they were already being used in servers?

\guess not

You would not want to install RT on a desktop. It will be very limited. You cannot install arbitrary Win32 applications that you'd typically install on your desktop. For example, games, photo-editing software, development tools, you name it.

I've got an Android tablet that I'm pretty happy with, so I don't really care about this whole "controversy". It just kind of annoys me when someone who clearly hasn't read the whole article accuses some one else of not having read it.

Did you stop to think that perhaps when they say that laptops and desktops are "expected" to be using ARM chips that perhaps that is merely speculation and not a gospel fact? The x86 architecture is not going to go anywhere anytime soon (if ever). ARM chips just aren't robust enough to handle what a standard desktop/laptop CPU can. And for the issue of them stating that servers are using ARM chips, that's more than likely used simply for back-end, low level processing to alleviate some pressure from the main CPU; possibly to reduce power consumption as well. There is no possible way a main production server is going to rely solely on an ARM processor, it's just not going to happen. Stop acting like someone pissed in your Cheerios.

Again, I don't really care about the whole issue. I was just busting cman's balls. Please check the website on which you are currently posting. Does it say Fark.com? If so, get a grip, and stop pretending that I pissed in your Cheerios.

Don't like getting called out and subsequently proven wrong ...


You're taking Fox News at face value for the facts (strike one). You're implying that ARM chips are going to be the source of all future computing (strike 2). Your next response to this will inanely spout off some "it don't care about this crap" nonsense (that will be strike 3). Enjoy your lunch.
 
2012-05-11 12:20:56 PM  

JackieRabbit: Full-sized desktops and laptops are what is going to die.


Beyond Green? Is that you?
 
2012-05-11 12:24:12 PM  

MightyPez: You understand the idea is to make tablets dock with other peripherals, right? It's already happening. Look at the Transformer line from Asus. You can dock to a clamshell keyboard with touchpad, attach a mouse if you want, output via HDMI to a monitor/TV with Office support. VM solutions are springing up such as PlayOn's mobile desktop that let you use a full Office suite. Think tanks like Gartner are even playing up this trending as "[blank] as a service" gets more prevalence in the market.


lowendmac.com
 
2012-05-11 12:25:40 PM  
And it will probably be as big a success as their phone software.
 
2012-05-11 12:27:42 PM  

Little.Alex: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x261]

Better in every way.


beat me to it
 
2012-05-11 12:33:14 PM  
They're also removing dvd/blu ray support/drives. I still like make hard copies of family photos and other important documents.

They can keep this shiatty setup
 
2012-05-11 12:39:09 PM  

spentmiles: Internet Explorer does everything that I need it to do, like my taxes and banking, reports sports scores, and even gives me new recipes to try. I don't see why anyone would need any other browser because IE seems to have everything you can imagine inside of it. I've heard that Firefox doesn't even have Bing because it is too complex to run on the Mozilla OS. And believe me, as a Federal Judge, I take all of this into consideration when I rule on these cases.


This is why I have you favorited you handsome rogue.
 
2012-05-11 12:40:30 PM  

TopoGigo: MightyPez: You understand the idea is to make tablets dock with other peripherals, right? It's already happening. Look at the Transformer line from Asus. You can dock to a clamshell keyboard with touchpad, attach a mouse if you want, output via HDMI to a monitor/TV with Office support. VM solutions are springing up such as PlayOn's mobile desktop that let you use a full Office suite. Think tanks like Gartner are even playing up this trending as "[blank] as a service" gets more prevalence in the market.

[lowendmac.com image 256x208]


It's funny, we look back on that at how silly it was. But realistically we still do it today. Plenty of people will carry a laptop around, bring it to their home/desk and plug in a USB hub and VGA cable to use keyboard, mice, and monitors.

Conceivably the next step is for tablets and phones to do the same. The only limitation at this time is the software, and even that line is blurring.
 
2012-05-11 12:41:09 PM  

cman:
This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


I'm not totally sure what the point of the ARM version is at this point. The rumour mill seems to suggest it won't run legacy x86 code (no 'Rosetta for ARM' style system), won't have a version of Office, won't be able to join domains... if it won't run legacy code I have to wonder if it'll deal with the ActiveX heavy, IE6 designed webapps that are the bane of everyones lives even.

I can understand the Apple devices not being able to join a Microsoft AD Domain but the latest and greatest tablet OS from Microsoft, the makers of the server software not being able to join and be managed? Erm... DERP.
 
2012-05-11 12:57:03 PM  

styckx: And to be honest, isn't Windows like Photoshop at this point for most people? Everyone has it and no one ever pays for it.


Not quite. Microsoft spent the 80's, 90's and first years of the 00's basically sending their OS around the world with zero copy protection on it; this was by design. Their plan was quite simple, once everyone is using the 'free' and 'easy to pirate' Microsoft software (and thus locked in to the proprietary file formats) they'd jack up the copy protection and rake in the cash; Bill Gates even admitted this was their plan in the 90's. It's one of the reasons I laugh every-time Microsoft complains about piracy, their whole business model for 20+ years was based on people ripping their software off!

Adobe do a similar thing, however, they aim for everyone doing design/art stuff in education to pirate PhotoShop/Premiere/After Effects/etc and get so used to it that when they get a job... the company has to buy another license for those products. That is one of the reasons Photoshop and the like remain the industry standard.

So... same idea but different drum beat.

Speaking of the Beast of Redmond, I'm a OS X user primarily but I have a few Windows machines kicking around that are in use by the family. The various Action Pack style subscriptions you can/could get from MS... do they cover the Mac version of Office as well as the Windows one?
 
2012-05-11 12:57:22 PM  

Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: OK, I can see the argument for Apple considering that their "walled garden" is vendor lock-in on a scale MS could only dream of, but what the hell has Google done that ranks on the same scale as Microsoft?

The recent Wi-Fi snooping thing comes to mind. Also their cloud storage service where they put in the terms of use that they own everything you upload and can do whatever they want with it (not sure if they ever changed that after the outcry). Google is a marketing company, they exist for the sole purpose of harvesting your personal information and selling it.

You're talking about apples and oranges here. Those practices are wrong, to be sure, but we're talking about locked platforms here. Android is open to a fault.

Evil practices are evil, it doesn't have to involve locking platforms. So because Android is open you are ok with all the other crap that Google does?

No, but we're discussing locked platforms here. That is the subject of this thread; that Microsoft is locking down their platform. Again, we're talking about apples, and you're talking about oranges.

No, I was saying that companies like Apple and Google are routinely doing things just as underhanded as Microsoft ever did back in the old days, and you're being an Android fanboy and trying deny that your precious Google does anything wrong with your apples and oranges nonsense.


No, I freely admitted that Google was wrong in those cases. It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing. Now, you're accusing me of being an apple fanboy for not wanting to talk about your orange.
 
2012-05-11 12:59:45 PM  

Skyfrog: Ed Grubermann: Anyone stupid enough to buy an OS with that hideous Metro UI (I know! Let's make Windows look like Wired Magazine from the 1990's! That's the ticket!) deserves to get stuck with one browser.

Well I do hate Metro, but the headline isn't true. You can use any browser you want Microsoft approves for distribution through its app store on Metro, just not a classic Windows version on WinRT tablets. Desktops have no restriction at all.


FTFY.
 
2012-05-11 01:00:31 PM  

HatMadeOfAss: MindStalker: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Actually no, its going to be an App store like system for Metro where you have a number of apps to choose from which will run on any Windows 8 device. If Microsoft isn't allowing other browsers in ARM they aren't allowing other browsers in Metro apps. So this affects anyone who wishes to primarily stay in the Metro interface, which many businesses might, as it is safer from a virus standpoint. Apple locked out competing browsers at first in iOS, then they changed their stance, hopefully Microsoft will change, but I doubt it.

Actually no, it's going to be for Windows Classic. Here, I'll help.

FTA:

"prohibits any browser but Internet Explorer from running the classic Windows desktop."

The MetroUI and Windows Classic are two separate things. And from a business standpoint, MetroUI would be a productivity abortion. There's a reason major corporations aren't using iPads and Android tablets for data creation. For data consumption, tablets can't be beat (cost wise). But if you want your workers to actually work, a slick MetroUI, iOS, Android system isn't going to do it.


From what I can find out it seems "classic" under ARM is a weird step child. Classic under x86/x64 will run as normal windows, but classic under ARM is a different beast. Its not running an emulator so it can't run just any x86/x64 software, but its supposed to look like a classic desktop. As Microsoft is saying they won't allow other browsers in there what they really means is that Microsoft has control over what is installed in classic. Its almost like classic will be some dummy OS under ARM that appears to look and feel like Windows 7 but really is just IE and MS Office walled garden.
 
2012-05-11 01:00:54 PM  

MightyPez: TopoGigo: MightyPez: You understand the idea is to make tablets dock with other peripherals, right? It's already happening. Look at the Transformer line from Asus. You can dock to a clamshell keyboard with touchpad, attach a mouse if you want, output via HDMI to a monitor/TV with Office support. VM solutions are springing up such as PlayOn's mobile desktop that let you use a full Office suite. Think tanks like Gartner are even playing up this trending as "[blank] as a service" gets more prevalence in the market.

[lowendmac.com image 256x208]

It's funny, we look back on that at how silly it was. But realistically we still do it today. Plenty of people will carry a laptop around, bring it to their home/desk and plug in a USB hub and VGA cable to use keyboard, mice, and monitors.

Conceivably the next step is for tablets and phones to do the same. The only limitation at this time is the software, and even that line is blurring.


I don't find it silly at all. It tried to fill a real need. It didn't work all that well, but it was a first step.
In reality, I'm looking for the day when everyone will get implants for a microphone, speaker, and visual-cortex display link. Then, your cellphone, TV, computer, etc. could just be a Zippo-sized powerhouse in your pocket. You could have your choice of interface devices, from VR gloves to voice command to wristwatch keyboards to full-sized keyboard/mouse rigs. Everything would be fully upgradable except for your implants, but there should be no need to upgrade those. I'll be happy as a pig in shiat when such a system could be had for under $1500.
 
2012-05-11 01:01:11 PM  

TopoGigo:
[lowendmac.com image 256x208]


If they teach the iPad to do a similar trick with an iMac like chassis... I will squee like a school girl and melt my credit card.

It'd need a beefy GPU and co-processor in the dock chassis though. Same as the DuoDock really.
 
2012-05-11 01:08:01 PM  

HeartBurnKid:
No, I freely admitted that Google was wrong in those cases. It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing. Now, you're accusing me of being an apple fanboy for not wanting to talk about your orange.


He's an idiot or paid shill. I see nothing as outright evil being done by Apple and Google as I see Microsoft get up to.

Once Apple/Google start dictating terms to OEM's over licensing their software or threatening them with closure if they don't do X or front loading the ISO committees so a broken standard comes in to being... we'll start to have this conversation in a sensible manner. Until that time just post lolercaust gifs n' shiat.
 
2012-05-11 01:11:17 PM  

Vaneshi: cman:
This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

I'm not totally sure what the point of the ARM version is at this point. The rumour mill seems to suggest it won't run legacy x86 code (no 'Rosetta for ARM' style system), won't have a version of Office, won't be able to join domains... if it won't run legacy code I have to wonder if it'll deal with the ActiveX heavy, IE6 designed webapps that are the bane of everyones lives even.

I can understand the Apple devices not being able to join a Microsoft AD Domain but the latest and greatest tablet OS from Microsoft, the makers of the server software not being able to join and be managed? Erm... DERP.


Actually Windows RT tablets get Office '15' preinstalled. Yeah they cut out some of those enterprise management features from RT and they have this half-assed management software built for RT. They won't allow "legacy" x86 code to run because it sucks down battery. WoA details

Enterprise details
 
2012-05-11 01:25:39 PM  

hbk72777: They're also removing dvd/blu ray support/drives. I still like make hard copies of family photos and other important documents.

They can keep this shiatty setup


They're not doing that. What you are referring to is the removal of DVD codecs in Media Player, meaning to play DVDs you will have to install a third party program like PowerDVD or VLC. You can still read and burn DVDs and Blu-Rays just like always.
 
2012-05-11 01:29:04 PM  

HeartBurnKid: It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing.


Who are you the Fark police? We CAN discuss other things in this thread, it doesn't have to be about locking down devices. I never compared anything so your apples and oranges argument is retarded. I just said that people still think of Microsoft as an evil company when Apple and Google bad things as well yet they get a clean pass.
 
2012-05-11 01:35:23 PM  

hbk72777: They're also removing dvd/blu ray support/drives. I still like make hard copies of family photos and other important documents.

They can keep this shiatty setup


The browser restriction only applies to the ARM version of windows, not the desktop versions. And who's to say they won't change their minds in the future, and allow other browsers the same way Apple did with the iPad? Maybe it's somewhat difficult to port those browsers to a new OS and they don't want their product to suck right when they release it?

To play DVD/Blu-ray you could always just use Windows 7 if you install the right codecs.

Or you could just install Ubuntu, where you can choose from dozens of browsers and play DVD/Blu-ray.

I don't think an OS will ever be released without a chorus of pissing and moaning. I definitely won't be buying windows 8 in any flavor though.
 
2012-05-11 01:35:47 PM  
Good. I hope Microsoft hangs itself with this crap.

After using the Consumer Previews, I've decided that I will never own or willingly use a Metro device. Tablet or PC, doesn't matter, if it has Windows 8 on it, it will not get my money. My family asks me what to buy, too.
 
2012-05-11 01:39:24 PM  

hbk72777: They're also removing dvd/blu ray support/drives. I still like make hard copies of family photos and other important documents.


I've no idea where you heard that but it isn't true. DVD and BD drives are still supported just fine. You may be thinking of the ability to play DVD movies in Windows Media Player without installing a decoder, but who uses the crappy Windows Media Player anyway?

Media Player Classic FTW.
 
2012-05-11 01:40:28 PM  
distrowatch

steamforlinux

Now if NVIDIA and ATI could just release decent drivers...

3570k @4.5
7850 @1.2

If you're new to linux try linux mint, if you haven't tried Mint Debian, Try Mint Debian.
 
2012-05-11 01:42:59 PM  

Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing.

Who are you the Fark police? We CAN discuss other things in this thread, it doesn't have to be about locking down devices. I never compared anything so your apples and oranges argument is retarded. I just said that people still think of Microsoft as an evil company when Apple and Google bad things as well yet they get a clean pass.


No, what you said was they're "far more evil than Microsoft". That kind of implies that they're evil in comparable ways, only more so, you know? And since we're talking about Microsoft's software restrictions here, I assumed you were referring to something similar that they're doing.

If you're just a threadjacking troll trying to change the subject to take the heat off of your precious Microsoft, that's fine too.
 
2012-05-11 01:47:54 PM  

HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing.

Who are you the Fark police? We CAN discuss other things in this thread, it doesn't have to be about locking down devices. I never compared anything so your apples and oranges argument is retarded. I just said that people still think of Microsoft as an evil company when Apple and Google bad things as well yet they get a clean pass.

No, what you said was they're "far more evil than Microsoft". That kind of implies that they're evil in comparable ways, only more so, you know? And since we're talking about Microsoft's software restrictions here, I assumed you were referring to something similar that they're doing.

If you're just a threadjacking troll trying to change the subject to take the heat off of your precious Microsoft, that's fine too.


Well as far as I know Microsoft didn't drive around stealing people's data so they could sell it to marketers, and fark Microsoft. I'm not fan of theirs and Windows 8 is a load of crap, but I'm not going to pretend that these other companies are all innocent. I'm not even sure how that is changing the subject but if you're going to keep crying like a little baby about it nevermind. Sorry I insulted your poor widdle Android.
 
2012-05-11 01:51:21 PM  

Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing.

Who are you the Fark police? We CAN discuss other things in this thread, it doesn't have to be about locking down devices. I never compared anything so your apples and oranges argument is retarded. I just said that people still think of Microsoft as an evil company when Apple and Google bad things as well yet they get a clean pass.

No, what you said was they're "far more evil than Microsoft". That kind of implies that they're evil in comparable ways, only more so, you know? And since we're talking about Microsoft's software restrictions here, I assumed you were referring to something similar that they're doing.

If you're just a threadjacking troll trying to change the subject to take the heat off of your precious Microsoft, that's fine too.

Well as far as I know Microsoft didn't drive around stealing people's data so they could sell it to marketers, and fark Microsoft. I'm not fan of theirs and Windows 8 is a load of crap, but I'm not going to pretend that these other companies are all innocent. I'm not even sure how that is changing the subject but if you're going to keep crying like a little baby about it nevermind. Sorry I insulted your poor widdle Android.


Yeah, here's the thing: Apple and Google don't get a free pass on that. And there have been many, many threads where people bash Apple and Google on those very things. This thread is about what Microsoft is doing, and for somebody who doesn't like Microsoft, you're sure doing a lot to deflect from them.

And that's all I have to say on this.
 
2012-05-11 01:55:16 PM  

HeartBurnKid: This thread is about what Microsoft is doing


So no one is allowed to talk about or even mention other related companies?

i129.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-11 01:56:07 PM  

Rent is too damn high: They won't allow "legacy" x86 code to run because it sucks down battery.


*goes off reads*

Oooookaaayyy... So that'll be a pallet of iPads on order then. Because if I'm going to deploy something utterly incompatible with the legacy web-apps I might as well deploy something that can sit there looking somewhat pretty whilst it gathers dust.
 
2012-05-11 01:57:14 PM  

Leonard Washington: Now if NVIDIA and ATI could just release decent drivers...


That has always been the main thing keeping me away from Linux. It has improved a lot lately but as far as gaming goes it still doesn't come close to Windows. Hopefully Steam will help change that.
 
2012-05-11 01:59:06 PM  
Dear Business Majors who come up with these ideas,

Good luck with that.

Love,
Geeks everywhere
 
2012-05-11 02:02:43 PM  
I've got a Samsung tablet/slate running Win8 and I think it blows the iPad out of the water.

I get a 'tablet' experience, which on Win8 means immersive apps and a main UI that isn't just a bunch of little icons sitting there. I get interoperability between these apps, via standard baked into the OS. As a reader, web browser, touch game device, etc. it rocks. I can control my xbox, remote into my laptop, etc. all as a seamless experience.

With one tap, I'm back at a traditional desktop, running all the software i currently do on any other machine. The point is, it's a tablet and a desktop/laptop. There is no comparison to an iPad because it just can't do a fraction of what you can on a Win8 device. Both are limited in a sense, but only 1 has the ability to allow the user to go beyond that. And that's all baked in, not a hack or an add-on.
 
2012-05-11 02:08:51 PM  

NullFarkinException: I've got a Samsung tablet/slate running Win8 and I think it blows the iPad out of the water.


From what I've seen Windows 8 is an excellent tablet OS. Most of the complaints including mine are about it as a desktop OS, where Metro is clumsy and makes no sense at all. Also it brings almost nothing for people already using Windows 7.
 
2012-05-11 02:16:43 PM  

Gothnet:
That kinda depends on what they do, if they can be shown to be abusing a monopoly position in one market in order to force an entrance into another, that could also be illegal. I'm not convinced this is the case here, but theoretically you can still be convicted of anti-trust behaviour in a market you don't dominate.


Using dominance in one market to gain success in another is paramount to most business strategies (see: Apple and everything they have done Weeners gen iPod). I don't see the DoJ acting on this when they were on the side lines as Apple basically locked out Adobe's iOS development tools a few years back. That was a direct stab at cross platform development and they flat out ignored it. Hard coding a web browser for a very specific mode of your operating system which runs on a currently unavailable subset of hardware (other than beta units) is a far stretch for anti-competitive actions as compared to the aforementioned. My guess is Microsoft will allow you to select your default search provider, much like the current versions of IE, to get around anti-trust issues. Besides the DoJ is far too busy taking down file sharers and arguing health care law to bother with this ;)
 
2012-05-11 02:17:23 PM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


It would totally work. Google and Mozilla dev's are just lazy assholes that don't think they should have to put in any effort or *GASP* port their code.It's easier to blame M$ than it is to actually get off their ass and do something about it. Very sad to see.
 
2012-05-11 02:27:53 PM  
So they're doing what Apple's been doing for the last half-decade? Oh, I forgot: Apple is a cool, sleek, rebellious, anti-establishment, multi-billion dollar multinational corporation.
 
2012-05-11 02:30:18 PM  

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


Apple has not banned competing browsers. Both Firefox and Opera are available on both the iPhone and iPad.

I seem to remember Microsoft getting into trouble over this sort of thing in the past.
 
2012-05-11 02:42:44 PM  
Funny, cause I actually use IE.

/What?
 
2012-05-11 02:49:01 PM  

kg2095: Apple has not banned competing browsers.


Neither has Microsoft.
 
2012-05-11 03:22:27 PM  
Chances of me upgrading to Win 8 without a gun to my head: 0.0
 
2012-05-11 03:34:32 PM  

Surool: Chances of me upgrading to Win 8 without a gun to my head: 0.0


i48.tinypic.com

Fair enough. We can do this the hard way if you wish...
 
2012-05-11 03:38:31 PM  

Silverstaff: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

You can get other browsers for the iPad. I've got Opera on mine.


Can you get Chrome and Firefox natively?
 
2012-05-11 03:39:47 PM  

Empty Matchbook: So they're doing what Apple's been doing for the last half-decade? Oh, I forgot: Apple is a cool, sleek, rebellious, anti-establishment, multi-billion dollar multinational corporation.


Have you missed the people saying Apple isn't doing this? Cause it's not. There are multiple browser options for the iPad.
 
2012-05-11 05:59:13 PM  

WhyteRaven74: Empty Matchbook: So they're doing what Apple's been doing for the last half-decade? Oh, I forgot: Apple is a cool, sleek, rebellious, anti-establishment, multi-billion dollar multinational corporation.

Have you missed the people saying Apple isn't doing this? Cause it's not. There are multiple browser options for the iPad.


There will be multiple browser options for Windows tablets. Mozilla, Google, Apple and Opera are all quite welcome to port their browsers to WinRT. They just have to write native Metro based versions, and why would you want anything else if you're going to buy a Windows tablet?

When saying Apple does the same thing, it means all apps have to go through their app store and be approved by Apple. It's locked down and you can't install any programs you want on it, only those blessed by Apple's leaders.
 
2012-05-11 06:23:56 PM  
Anyone got a better article? This one makes no attempt to explain what is ACTUALLY happening, relying on a goon from firefox to tell us things, and then not anything informative.

Is it locking things out, or is it simply that there is no win32 api so the existing apps wont work?
 
2012-05-11 06:46:32 PM  

gaspode: Anyone got a better article? This one makes no attempt to explain what is ACTUALLY happening, relying on a goon from firefox to tell us things, and then not anything informative.

Is it locking things out, or is it simply that there is no win32 api so the existing apps wont work?


Windows 8 has not been completely rewritten for Metro, it is still based on Windows 7 and there are lots of low level parts of the OS that require the older APIs. Internet Explorer is integrated into the OS as we all know so it still uses some of those APIs and that's what is causing the frackas.

On ARM tablets all apps are required to be written for Metro, and Mozilla is not only free to do this they have already started. Mozilla and Google are complaining because they want to be able to use those old low level APIs also but there is no reason for them to. They are just crying because it means they have to put more work into their products instead of relying on their old code.

There will most certainly be Metro versions of Firefox, Chrome and Opera available at launch. This is really a non story.
 
2012-05-11 07:29:29 PM  

poisonedpawn78: What i dont understand is why MS is obligated to enable competition for itself.

The REAL way this should have worked is that MS Closes down windows for all MS products only forcing competators to come out with their own operating systems to rival windows.

Then we have TRUE competition.


Last time we had true competition for an OS, things were stupid expensive. I'm not going back to the days of buying a specific piece of hardware at stupid expensive prices because it's certified to run with my OS.
 
2012-05-11 07:31:56 PM  
This thread smells like Mountain Dew and Cheetos farts with a hint of Jean Nate bath salts.
 
2012-05-11 10:23:43 PM  

Hand Banana: poisonedpawn78: How about the competition man up and create a competitor to windows. AND i dont mean linux i mean a REAL competator.

You haven't even used Linux have you. This is the problem. It doesn't matter how great a competing OS someone makes as long as the mouth breathers continue to use Windows because it comes on their computer. Today's Linux can do anything Windows can and even run almost all Windows programs using Wine.


My windows 7 can run all windows programs and I don't have to run Wine ;)
 
2012-05-12 12:43:01 AM  

Millennium: Gothnet: Millennium: Hmm. So it's a matter of Win32 libraries not existing on WinRT. Does this mean we're going to need a port of Wine to Windows?

Pretty sure it's more along the lines of Metro Apps being restricted to an API subset, and MS not allowing non-Metro apps onto the system from third parties, in WinRT.

Also, sorry, it's pedantic but..... Wine isn't going to help, it only runs on x86 hardware. It implements a lot of windows interfaces and runs windows programs, but it's not a CPU emulator. For instance you can't run it on linux on arm, sparc, itanium etc.

My bad: what I was actually talking about was winelib (which is part of the Wine project, but not the part people tend to think about when you mention Wine). That could really help with porting applications over.


Yeah, slightly my bad also! They apparently have a proposal to port it fully by using parts of qemu, which would work but likely be horrifically slow.

Winelib makes a lot of sense, yes.
 
2012-05-12 04:16:39 AM  
Don't like IE, don't run Windows. Your choice. Instal Linux or whatever system allows you to run your precious Firefox, Chrome or whatever.
 
2012-05-12 06:03:14 AM  

NullFarkinException: With one tap, I'm back at a traditional desktop, running all the software i currently do on any other machine.


If you're going to shill I'm cool with that. But at least fact check the random bollocks before you post it somewhere. You aren't running all the software you currently do on any other machine if it's Win8 RT. Because it is incapable of doing so. This very article, others that have preceded it and indeed Microsoft themselves have confirmed this to be the case.

So I've no idea which play sheet you are reading from but I suspect you need to get another version of it.
 
2012-05-12 06:26:44 AM  

Hand Banana: gaspode: Anyone got a better article? This one makes no attempt to explain what is ACTUALLY happening, relying on a goon from firefox to tell us things, and then not anything informative.

Is it locking things out, or is it simply that there is no win32 api so the existing apps wont work?

Windows 8 has not been completely rewritten for Metro, it is still based on Windows 7 and there are lots of low level parts of the OS that require the older APIs. Internet Explorer is integrated into the OS as we all know so it still uses some of those APIs and that's what is causing the frackas.

On ARM tablets all apps are required to be written for Metro, and Mozilla is not only free to do this they have already started. Mozilla and Google are complaining because they want to be able to use those old low level APIs also but there is no reason for them to. They are just crying because it means they have to put more work into their products instead of relying on their old code.

There will most certainly be Metro versions of Firefox, Chrome and Opera available at launch. This is really a non story.


That's what i took from it but the article was going to such lengths to NOT say that that I thought I would ask as someone here was bound to know and I am lazy ;)
 
2012-05-12 11:38:03 AM  

Vaneshi: NullFarkinException: With one tap, I'm back at a traditional desktop, running all the software i currently do on any other machine.

If you're going to shill I'm cool with that. But at least fact check the random bollocks before you post it somewhere. You aren't running all the software you currently do on any other machine if it's Win8 RT. Because it is incapable of doing so. This very article, others that have preceded it and indeed Microsoft themselves have confirmed this to be the case.

So I've no idea which play sheet you are reading from but I suspect you need to get another version of it.


Shill? Maybe the fact that I have a Win8 tablet and am currently doing it, maybe the fact that my company has prerelease hardware/software and we're designing enterprise solutions to do this. So yes, I am running all the same software on my Win7 box as I am on Win8RT. Thanks for playing tho, next time try checking your facts.
 
2012-05-13 01:55:49 AM  

NullFarkinException: Shill? Maybe the fact that I have a Win8 tablet and am currently doing it, maybe the fact that my company has prerelease hardware/software and we're designing enterprise solutions to do this. So yes, I am running all the same software on my Win7 box as I am on Win8RT. Thanks for playing tho, next time try checking your facts.


You either have metro apps to do that with, not native apps, or your Win 8 tablet is an x86 tablet and not running RT by definition. Either way you're crowing about capabilities that do not exist.
 
2012-05-13 09:38:38 PM  

NullFarkinException:
Shill? Maybe the fact that I have a Win8 tablet and am currently doing it, maybe the fact that my company has prerelease hardware/software and we're designing enterprise solutions to do this. So yes, I am running all the same software on my Win7 box as I am on Win8RT. Thanks for playing tho, next time try checking your facts.


Win8 RT can not run x86 code. Win8 RT can not run your existing enterprise apps locally (see: Won't run x86 code). Ergo, you are full of shiat and shilling for a product you know sweet fark all about. Congrats, you're an idiot and your attempt to pump the product has, in fact, damaged it's marketability. So you failed at the one thing you set out to do.

Gothnet:
You either have metro apps to do that with, not native apps, or your Win 8 tablet is an x86 tablet and not running RT by definition. Either way you're crowing about capabilities that do not exist.


I'd go with options 3. He's 15 years old, never worked a day in his life (but has heard 'Enterprise' as meaning something important) and doesn't know what the fark he's talking about. I'm voting for this one especially as the capabilities he's talking about (running x86 code in Win8 RT) do not exist... according to the people developing it who, frankly, I'm inclined to believe.
 
2012-05-14 07:41:46 AM  

Vaneshi: NullFarkinException:
Shill? Maybe the fact that I have a Win8 tablet and am currently doing it, maybe the fact that my company has prerelease hardware/software and we're designing enterprise solutions to do this. So yes, I am running all the same software on my Win7 box as I am on Win8RT. Thanks for playing tho, next time try checking your facts.

Win8 RT can not run x86 code. Win8 RT can not run your existing enterprise apps locally (see: Won't run x86 code). Ergo, you are full of shiat and shilling for a product you know sweet fark all about. Congrats, you're an idiot and your attempt to pump the product has, in fact, damaged it's marketability. So you failed at the one thing you set out to do.

Gothnet:
You either have metro apps to do that with, not native apps, or your Win 8 tablet is an x86 tablet and not running RT by definition. Either way you're crowing about capabilities that do not exist.

I'd go with options 3. He's 15 years old, never worked a day in his life (but has heard 'Enterprise' as meaning something important) and doesn't know what the fark he's talking about. I'm voting for this one especially as the capabilities he's talking about (running x86 code in Win8 RT) do not exist... according to the people developing it who, frankly, I'm inclined to believe.


LOL, guess you missed the part about prerelease hardware and software, right? Sinofsky has made numerous conflicting comments (which he's admitted) and a lot has been done to ensure that legacy aps still run. (Don't forget that WinRT is a layer, not the only layer) Don't assume, because they've gone back and forth on a lot.

zdnet example of conflicting statements

If I could post a screenshot, i would but can't due to NDA. (Which I'm sure you're going to sya I don't even know what that means)

But what the hell about calling me 15 and never having worked? Do you always make ridiculous assumptions? Wouldn't I be an iPad guy then anyway? ;-)
 
2012-05-14 10:54:22 PM  

NullFarkinException: LOL, guess you missed the part about prerelease hardware and software, right? Sinofsky has made numerous conflicting comments (which he's admitted) and a lot has been done to ensure that legacy aps still run. (Don't forget that WinRT is a layer, not the only layer) Don't assume, because they've gone back and forth on a lot.


No, it hasn't. Even MS isn't saying legacy apps run on WinRT, because they can't without an x86 emulator. You're still talking out of your arse.

Are you working in .Net perhaps?
 
2012-05-14 11:14:37 PM  

Gothnet: NullFarkinException: LOL, guess you missed the part about prerelease hardware and software, right? Sinofsky has made numerous conflicting comments (which he's admitted) and a lot has been done to ensure that legacy aps still run. (Don't forget that WinRT is a layer, not the only layer) Don't assume, because they've gone back and forth on a lot.

No, it hasn't. Even MS isn't saying legacy apps run on WinRT, because they can't without an x86 emulator. You're still talking out of your arse.

Are you working in .Net perhaps?


yup, among other frameworks.

let's see what happens, you never know, something might change that hasnt yet been publicly released, cya!
 
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