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(Fox News)   Microsoft to ban every browser but Internet Explorer from the new version of Windows. This is not a repeat from 1998   (foxnews.com) divider line 264
    More: Fail, Internet Explorer, window, Microsoft, browser, Windows Desktop, landmark ruling, Microsoft Word, SciTech High  
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22415 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 May 2012 at 9:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-11 11:50:17 AM

Jarhead_h: Valve's Gabe Newell Talks Linux Steam Client, Source Engine
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=valve_linux_dampfn u deln&num=1

"Valve and Gabe Newell's interest in Linux goes beyond what would be expected of any normal game company, but Valve is certainly a unique beast. Listening to Gabe Newell talk about Linux for hours made me wonder whether he was a former ex-Microsoft employee (where he actually did work in his pre-Valve days in the 90's) or the director of the Linux Foundation. His level of Linux interest and commitment was incredible while his negativity for Windows 8 and the future of Microsoft was stunning. In fact, as soon as I return to my office this weekend I plan to try out Windows 8 simply to see if it's as bad as Gabe state"

Bottom line, M$ is cutting their own throat. They have just driven away their most important developer, and he's a Linux fan. Where the games go, the users will follow. I only use Win7 for two things, games and Blu-ray, and I can buy a cheap blu-ray player if the game devs start doing everything in OpenGL/OpenCL.


You might not believe me, but I was planning on tying that in to the topic at hand. I was gonna go with the whole "general pattern" angle. Then I forgot and posted it. Oh, well.
 
2012-05-11 11:50:18 AM
And to be honest, isn't Windows like Photoshop at this point for most people? Everyone has it and no one ever pays for it.
 
2012-05-11 11:57:32 AM

Gothnet: Millennium: Hmm. So it's a matter of Win32 libraries not existing on WinRT. Does this mean we're going to need a port of Wine to Windows?

Pretty sure it's more along the lines of Metro Apps being restricted to an API subset, and MS not allowing non-Metro apps onto the system from third parties, in WinRT.

Also, sorry, it's pedantic but..... Wine isn't going to help, it only runs on x86 hardware. It implements a lot of windows interfaces and runs windows programs, but it's not a CPU emulator. For instance you can't run it on linux on arm, sparc, itanium etc.


My bad: what I was actually talking about was winelib (which is part of the Wine project, but not the part people tend to think about when you mention Wine). That could really help with porting applications over.
 
2012-05-11 11:58:42 AM

Jarhead_h: Bottom line, M$ is cutting their own throat. They have just driven away their most important developer, and he's a Linux fan. Where the games go, the users will follow. I only use Win7 for two things, games and Blu-ray, and I can buy a cheap blu-ray player if the game devs start doing everything in OpenGL/OpenCL.


I'm in the camp that thinks Valve's pull to Linux is related to the rumours of a Steambox. Source games running natively, and a wine wrapper (a la Google's Picasa) for whatever else they can manage to run on a set hardware platform.
 
2012-05-11 12:09:43 PM

HatMadeOfAss: CheekyMonkey: HatMadeOfAss: CheekyMonkey: Jument: CheekyMonkey: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did cman read the whole article? Including the part where it was stated that ARM chips are expected to be used in laptop and desktop systems as well, and that they were already being used in servers?

\guess not

You would not want to install RT on a desktop. It will be very limited. You cannot install arbitrary Win32 applications that you'd typically install on your desktop. For example, games, photo-editing software, development tools, you name it.

I've got an Android tablet that I'm pretty happy with, so I don't really care about this whole "controversy". It just kind of annoys me when someone who clearly hasn't read the whole article accuses some one else of not having read it.

Did you stop to think that perhaps when they say that laptops and desktops are "expected" to be using ARM chips that perhaps that is merely speculation and not a gospel fact? The x86 architecture is not going to go anywhere anytime soon (if ever). ARM chips just aren't robust enough to handle what a standard desktop/laptop CPU can. And for the issue of them stating that servers are using ARM chips, that's more than likely used simply for back-end, low level processing to alleviate some pressure from the main CPU; possibly to reduce power consumption as well. There is no possible way a main production server is going to rely solely on an ARM processor, it's just not going to happen. Stop acting like someone pissed in your Cheerios.

Again, I don't really care about the whole issue. I was just busting cman's balls. Please check the website on which you are currently posting. Does it say Fark.com? If so, get a grip, and stop pretending that I pissed in your Cheerios.

Don't like getting called out and subsequently proven wrong? It sucks be ...


Not really sure what you think I was "proven wrong" about. I quoted the article. Are you implying that what I quoted was not in the article? That's just silly. You're trying to "call me out" for something I didn't do. Good luck with that, I have lunch to attend to.
 
2012-05-11 12:13:03 PM

Hand Banana: Slam Dunkz: LOL don't hold your breath. The linux-heads have been saying that for 20 years and it's still behind in terms of being usable on a desktop.

Have you actually used it recently or are you just repeating decades old complaints about it. The last time I tried it was a few years ago and it was quite usable on the desktop. What about it is giving you trouble? Just curious, because I thought it worked fine.


Linux is perfectly usable on phones and Chromebooks. You can use a Chromebook on top of a desk...

Linux is getting better and better, as there are millions of users who don't even know they're running Linux.
 
2012-05-11 12:16:12 PM

CheekyMonkey: HatMadeOfAss: CheekyMonkey: HatMadeOfAss: CheekyMonkey: Jument: CheekyMonkey: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Did cman read the whole article? Including the part where it was stated that ARM chips are expected to be used in laptop and desktop systems as well, and that they were already being used in servers?

\guess not

You would not want to install RT on a desktop. It will be very limited. You cannot install arbitrary Win32 applications that you'd typically install on your desktop. For example, games, photo-editing software, development tools, you name it.

I've got an Android tablet that I'm pretty happy with, so I don't really care about this whole "controversy". It just kind of annoys me when someone who clearly hasn't read the whole article accuses some one else of not having read it.

Did you stop to think that perhaps when they say that laptops and desktops are "expected" to be using ARM chips that perhaps that is merely speculation and not a gospel fact? The x86 architecture is not going to go anywhere anytime soon (if ever). ARM chips just aren't robust enough to handle what a standard desktop/laptop CPU can. And for the issue of them stating that servers are using ARM chips, that's more than likely used simply for back-end, low level processing to alleviate some pressure from the main CPU; possibly to reduce power consumption as well. There is no possible way a main production server is going to rely solely on an ARM processor, it's just not going to happen. Stop acting like someone pissed in your Cheerios.

Again, I don't really care about the whole issue. I was just busting cman's balls. Please check the website on which you are currently posting. Does it say Fark.com? If so, get a grip, and stop pretending that I pissed in your Cheerios.

Don't like getting called out and subsequently proven wrong ...


You're taking Fox News at face value for the facts (strike one). You're implying that ARM chips are going to be the source of all future computing (strike 2). Your next response to this will inanely spout off some "it don't care about this crap" nonsense (that will be strike 3). Enjoy your lunch.
 
2012-05-11 12:20:56 PM

JackieRabbit: Full-sized desktops and laptops are what is going to die.


Beyond Green? Is that you?
 
2012-05-11 12:24:12 PM

MightyPez: You understand the idea is to make tablets dock with other peripherals, right? It's already happening. Look at the Transformer line from Asus. You can dock to a clamshell keyboard with touchpad, attach a mouse if you want, output via HDMI to a monitor/TV with Office support. VM solutions are springing up such as PlayOn's mobile desktop that let you use a full Office suite. Think tanks like Gartner are even playing up this trending as "[blank] as a service" gets more prevalence in the market.


lowendmac.com
 
2012-05-11 12:25:40 PM
And it will probably be as big a success as their phone software.
 
2012-05-11 12:27:42 PM

Little.Alex: [upload.wikimedia.org image 220x261]

Better in every way.


beat me to it
 
2012-05-11 12:33:14 PM
They're also removing dvd/blu ray support/drives. I still like make hard copies of family photos and other important documents.

They can keep this shiatty setup
 
2012-05-11 12:39:09 PM

spentmiles: Internet Explorer does everything that I need it to do, like my taxes and banking, reports sports scores, and even gives me new recipes to try. I don't see why anyone would need any other browser because IE seems to have everything you can imagine inside of it. I've heard that Firefox doesn't even have Bing because it is too complex to run on the Mozilla OS. And believe me, as a Federal Judge, I take all of this into consideration when I rule on these cases.


This is why I have you favorited you handsome rogue.
 
2012-05-11 12:40:30 PM

TopoGigo: MightyPez: You understand the idea is to make tablets dock with other peripherals, right? It's already happening. Look at the Transformer line from Asus. You can dock to a clamshell keyboard with touchpad, attach a mouse if you want, output via HDMI to a monitor/TV with Office support. VM solutions are springing up such as PlayOn's mobile desktop that let you use a full Office suite. Think tanks like Gartner are even playing up this trending as "[blank] as a service" gets more prevalence in the market.

[lowendmac.com image 256x208]


It's funny, we look back on that at how silly it was. But realistically we still do it today. Plenty of people will carry a laptop around, bring it to their home/desk and plug in a USB hub and VGA cable to use keyboard, mice, and monitors.

Conceivably the next step is for tablets and phones to do the same. The only limitation at this time is the software, and even that line is blurring.
 
2012-05-11 12:41:09 PM

cman:
This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


I'm not totally sure what the point of the ARM version is at this point. The rumour mill seems to suggest it won't run legacy x86 code (no 'Rosetta for ARM' style system), won't have a version of Office, won't be able to join domains... if it won't run legacy code I have to wonder if it'll deal with the ActiveX heavy, IE6 designed webapps that are the bane of everyones lives even.

I can understand the Apple devices not being able to join a Microsoft AD Domain but the latest and greatest tablet OS from Microsoft, the makers of the server software not being able to join and be managed? Erm... DERP.
 
2012-05-11 12:57:03 PM

styckx: And to be honest, isn't Windows like Photoshop at this point for most people? Everyone has it and no one ever pays for it.


Not quite. Microsoft spent the 80's, 90's and first years of the 00's basically sending their OS around the world with zero copy protection on it; this was by design. Their plan was quite simple, once everyone is using the 'free' and 'easy to pirate' Microsoft software (and thus locked in to the proprietary file formats) they'd jack up the copy protection and rake in the cash; Bill Gates even admitted this was their plan in the 90's. It's one of the reasons I laugh every-time Microsoft complains about piracy, their whole business model for 20+ years was based on people ripping their software off!

Adobe do a similar thing, however, they aim for everyone doing design/art stuff in education to pirate PhotoShop/Premiere/After Effects/etc and get so used to it that when they get a job... the company has to buy another license for those products. That is one of the reasons Photoshop and the like remain the industry standard.

So... same idea but different drum beat.

Speaking of the Beast of Redmond, I'm a OS X user primarily but I have a few Windows machines kicking around that are in use by the family. The various Action Pack style subscriptions you can/could get from MS... do they cover the Mac version of Office as well as the Windows one?
 
2012-05-11 12:57:22 PM

Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: OK, I can see the argument for Apple considering that their "walled garden" is vendor lock-in on a scale MS could only dream of, but what the hell has Google done that ranks on the same scale as Microsoft?

The recent Wi-Fi snooping thing comes to mind. Also their cloud storage service where they put in the terms of use that they own everything you upload and can do whatever they want with it (not sure if they ever changed that after the outcry). Google is a marketing company, they exist for the sole purpose of harvesting your personal information and selling it.

You're talking about apples and oranges here. Those practices are wrong, to be sure, but we're talking about locked platforms here. Android is open to a fault.

Evil practices are evil, it doesn't have to involve locking platforms. So because Android is open you are ok with all the other crap that Google does?

No, but we're discussing locked platforms here. That is the subject of this thread; that Microsoft is locking down their platform. Again, we're talking about apples, and you're talking about oranges.

No, I was saying that companies like Apple and Google are routinely doing things just as underhanded as Microsoft ever did back in the old days, and you're being an Android fanboy and trying deny that your precious Google does anything wrong with your apples and oranges nonsense.


No, I freely admitted that Google was wrong in those cases. It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing. Now, you're accusing me of being an apple fanboy for not wanting to talk about your orange.
 
2012-05-11 12:59:45 PM

Skyfrog: Ed Grubermann: Anyone stupid enough to buy an OS with that hideous Metro UI (I know! Let's make Windows look like Wired Magazine from the 1990's! That's the ticket!) deserves to get stuck with one browser.

Well I do hate Metro, but the headline isn't true. You can use any browser you want Microsoft approves for distribution through its app store on Metro, just not a classic Windows version on WinRT tablets. Desktops have no restriction at all.


FTFY.
 
2012-05-11 01:00:31 PM

HatMadeOfAss: MindStalker: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

Actually no, its going to be an App store like system for Metro where you have a number of apps to choose from which will run on any Windows 8 device. If Microsoft isn't allowing other browsers in ARM they aren't allowing other browsers in Metro apps. So this affects anyone who wishes to primarily stay in the Metro interface, which many businesses might, as it is safer from a virus standpoint. Apple locked out competing browsers at first in iOS, then they changed their stance, hopefully Microsoft will change, but I doubt it.

Actually no, it's going to be for Windows Classic. Here, I'll help.

FTA:

"prohibits any browser but Internet Explorer from running the classic Windows desktop."

The MetroUI and Windows Classic are two separate things. And from a business standpoint, MetroUI would be a productivity abortion. There's a reason major corporations aren't using iPads and Android tablets for data creation. For data consumption, tablets can't be beat (cost wise). But if you want your workers to actually work, a slick MetroUI, iOS, Android system isn't going to do it.


From what I can find out it seems "classic" under ARM is a weird step child. Classic under x86/x64 will run as normal windows, but classic under ARM is a different beast. Its not running an emulator so it can't run just any x86/x64 software, but its supposed to look like a classic desktop. As Microsoft is saying they won't allow other browsers in there what they really means is that Microsoft has control over what is installed in classic. Its almost like classic will be some dummy OS under ARM that appears to look and feel like Windows 7 but really is just IE and MS Office walled garden.
 
2012-05-11 01:00:54 PM

MightyPez: TopoGigo: MightyPez: You understand the idea is to make tablets dock with other peripherals, right? It's already happening. Look at the Transformer line from Asus. You can dock to a clamshell keyboard with touchpad, attach a mouse if you want, output via HDMI to a monitor/TV with Office support. VM solutions are springing up such as PlayOn's mobile desktop that let you use a full Office suite. Think tanks like Gartner are even playing up this trending as "[blank] as a service" gets more prevalence in the market.

[lowendmac.com image 256x208]

It's funny, we look back on that at how silly it was. But realistically we still do it today. Plenty of people will carry a laptop around, bring it to their home/desk and plug in a USB hub and VGA cable to use keyboard, mice, and monitors.

Conceivably the next step is for tablets and phones to do the same. The only limitation at this time is the software, and even that line is blurring.


I don't find it silly at all. It tried to fill a real need. It didn't work all that well, but it was a first step.
In reality, I'm looking for the day when everyone will get implants for a microphone, speaker, and visual-cortex display link. Then, your cellphone, TV, computer, etc. could just be a Zippo-sized powerhouse in your pocket. You could have your choice of interface devices, from VR gloves to voice command to wristwatch keyboards to full-sized keyboard/mouse rigs. Everything would be fully upgradable except for your implants, but there should be no need to upgrade those. I'll be happy as a pig in shiat when such a system could be had for under $1500.
 
2012-05-11 01:01:11 PM

TopoGigo:
[lowendmac.com image 256x208]


If they teach the iPad to do a similar trick with an iMac like chassis... I will squee like a school girl and melt my credit card.

It'd need a beefy GPU and co-processor in the dock chassis though. Same as the DuoDock really.
 
2012-05-11 01:08:01 PM

HeartBurnKid:
No, I freely admitted that Google was wrong in those cases. It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing. Now, you're accusing me of being an apple fanboy for not wanting to talk about your orange.


He's an idiot or paid shill. I see nothing as outright evil being done by Apple and Google as I see Microsoft get up to.

Once Apple/Google start dictating terms to OEM's over licensing their software or threatening them with closure if they don't do X or front loading the ISO committees so a broken standard comes in to being... we'll start to have this conversation in a sensible manner. Until that time just post lolercaust gifs n' shiat.
 
2012-05-11 01:11:17 PM

Vaneshi: cman:
This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

I'm not totally sure what the point of the ARM version is at this point. The rumour mill seems to suggest it won't run legacy x86 code (no 'Rosetta for ARM' style system), won't have a version of Office, won't be able to join domains... if it won't run legacy code I have to wonder if it'll deal with the ActiveX heavy, IE6 designed webapps that are the bane of everyones lives even.

I can understand the Apple devices not being able to join a Microsoft AD Domain but the latest and greatest tablet OS from Microsoft, the makers of the server software not being able to join and be managed? Erm... DERP.


Actually Windows RT tablets get Office '15' preinstalled. Yeah they cut out some of those enterprise management features from RT and they have this half-assed management software built for RT. They won't allow "legacy" x86 code to run because it sucks down battery. WoA details

Enterprise details
 
2012-05-11 01:25:39 PM

hbk72777: They're also removing dvd/blu ray support/drives. I still like make hard copies of family photos and other important documents.

They can keep this shiatty setup


They're not doing that. What you are referring to is the removal of DVD codecs in Media Player, meaning to play DVDs you will have to install a third party program like PowerDVD or VLC. You can still read and burn DVDs and Blu-Rays just like always.
 
2012-05-11 01:29:04 PM

HeartBurnKid: It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing.


Who are you the Fark police? We CAN discuss other things in this thread, it doesn't have to be about locking down devices. I never compared anything so your apples and oranges argument is retarded. I just said that people still think of Microsoft as an evil company when Apple and Google bad things as well yet they get a clean pass.
 
2012-05-11 01:35:23 PM

hbk72777: They're also removing dvd/blu ray support/drives. I still like make hard copies of family photos and other important documents.

They can keep this shiatty setup


The browser restriction only applies to the ARM version of windows, not the desktop versions. And who's to say they won't change their minds in the future, and allow other browsers the same way Apple did with the iPad? Maybe it's somewhat difficult to port those browsers to a new OS and they don't want their product to suck right when they release it?

To play DVD/Blu-ray you could always just use Windows 7 if you install the right codecs.

Or you could just install Ubuntu, where you can choose from dozens of browsers and play DVD/Blu-ray.

I don't think an OS will ever be released without a chorus of pissing and moaning. I definitely won't be buying windows 8 in any flavor though.
 
2012-05-11 01:35:47 PM
Good. I hope Microsoft hangs itself with this crap.

After using the Consumer Previews, I've decided that I will never own or willingly use a Metro device. Tablet or PC, doesn't matter, if it has Windows 8 on it, it will not get my money. My family asks me what to buy, too.
 
2012-05-11 01:39:24 PM

hbk72777: They're also removing dvd/blu ray support/drives. I still like make hard copies of family photos and other important documents.


I've no idea where you heard that but it isn't true. DVD and BD drives are still supported just fine. You may be thinking of the ability to play DVD movies in Windows Media Player without installing a decoder, but who uses the crappy Windows Media Player anyway?

Media Player Classic FTW.
 
2012-05-11 01:40:28 PM
distrowatch

steamforlinux

Now if NVIDIA and ATI could just release decent drivers...

3570k @4.5
7850 @1.2

If you're new to linux try linux mint, if you haven't tried Mint Debian, Try Mint Debian.
 
2012-05-11 01:42:59 PM

Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing.

Who are you the Fark police? We CAN discuss other things in this thread, it doesn't have to be about locking down devices. I never compared anything so your apples and oranges argument is retarded. I just said that people still think of Microsoft as an evil company when Apple and Google bad things as well yet they get a clean pass.


No, what you said was they're "far more evil than Microsoft". That kind of implies that they're evil in comparable ways, only more so, you know? And since we're talking about Microsoft's software restrictions here, I assumed you were referring to something similar that they're doing.

If you're just a threadjacking troll trying to change the subject to take the heat off of your precious Microsoft, that's fine too.
 
2012-05-11 01:47:54 PM

HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing.

Who are you the Fark police? We CAN discuss other things in this thread, it doesn't have to be about locking down devices. I never compared anything so your apples and oranges argument is retarded. I just said that people still think of Microsoft as an evil company when Apple and Google bad things as well yet they get a clean pass.

No, what you said was they're "far more evil than Microsoft". That kind of implies that they're evil in comparable ways, only more so, you know? And since we're talking about Microsoft's software restrictions here, I assumed you were referring to something similar that they're doing.

If you're just a threadjacking troll trying to change the subject to take the heat off of your precious Microsoft, that's fine too.


Well as far as I know Microsoft didn't drive around stealing people's data so they could sell it to marketers, and fark Microsoft. I'm not fan of theirs and Windows 8 is a load of crap, but I'm not going to pretend that these other companies are all innocent. I'm not even sure how that is changing the subject but if you're going to keep crying like a little baby about it nevermind. Sorry I insulted your poor widdle Android.
 
2012-05-11 01:51:21 PM

Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: Hand Banana: HeartBurnKid: It also has nothing whatsoever to do with what we are discussing.

Who are you the Fark police? We CAN discuss other things in this thread, it doesn't have to be about locking down devices. I never compared anything so your apples and oranges argument is retarded. I just said that people still think of Microsoft as an evil company when Apple and Google bad things as well yet they get a clean pass.

No, what you said was they're "far more evil than Microsoft". That kind of implies that they're evil in comparable ways, only more so, you know? And since we're talking about Microsoft's software restrictions here, I assumed you were referring to something similar that they're doing.

If you're just a threadjacking troll trying to change the subject to take the heat off of your precious Microsoft, that's fine too.

Well as far as I know Microsoft didn't drive around stealing people's data so they could sell it to marketers, and fark Microsoft. I'm not fan of theirs and Windows 8 is a load of crap, but I'm not going to pretend that these other companies are all innocent. I'm not even sure how that is changing the subject but if you're going to keep crying like a little baby about it nevermind. Sorry I insulted your poor widdle Android.


Yeah, here's the thing: Apple and Google don't get a free pass on that. And there have been many, many threads where people bash Apple and Google on those very things. This thread is about what Microsoft is doing, and for somebody who doesn't like Microsoft, you're sure doing a lot to deflect from them.

And that's all I have to say on this.
 
2012-05-11 01:55:16 PM

HeartBurnKid: This thread is about what Microsoft is doing


So no one is allowed to talk about or even mention other related companies?

i129.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-11 01:56:07 PM

Rent is too damn high: They won't allow "legacy" x86 code to run because it sucks down battery.


*goes off reads*

Oooookaaayyy... So that'll be a pallet of iPads on order then. Because if I'm going to deploy something utterly incompatible with the legacy web-apps I might as well deploy something that can sit there looking somewhat pretty whilst it gathers dust.
 
2012-05-11 01:57:14 PM

Leonard Washington: Now if NVIDIA and ATI could just release decent drivers...


That has always been the main thing keeping me away from Linux. It has improved a lot lately but as far as gaming goes it still doesn't come close to Windows. Hopefully Steam will help change that.
 
2012-05-11 01:59:06 PM
Dear Business Majors who come up with these ideas,

Good luck with that.

Love,
Geeks everywhere
 
2012-05-11 02:02:43 PM
I've got a Samsung tablet/slate running Win8 and I think it blows the iPad out of the water.

I get a 'tablet' experience, which on Win8 means immersive apps and a main UI that isn't just a bunch of little icons sitting there. I get interoperability between these apps, via standard baked into the OS. As a reader, web browser, touch game device, etc. it rocks. I can control my xbox, remote into my laptop, etc. all as a seamless experience.

With one tap, I'm back at a traditional desktop, running all the software i currently do on any other machine. The point is, it's a tablet and a desktop/laptop. There is no comparison to an iPad because it just can't do a fraction of what you can on a Win8 device. Both are limited in a sense, but only 1 has the ability to allow the user to go beyond that. And that's all baked in, not a hack or an add-on.
 
2012-05-11 02:08:51 PM

NullFarkinException: I've got a Samsung tablet/slate running Win8 and I think it blows the iPad out of the water.


From what I've seen Windows 8 is an excellent tablet OS. Most of the complaints including mine are about it as a desktop OS, where Metro is clumsy and makes no sense at all. Also it brings almost nothing for people already using Windows 7.
 
2012-05-11 02:16:43 PM

Gothnet:
That kinda depends on what they do, if they can be shown to be abusing a monopoly position in one market in order to force an entrance into another, that could also be illegal. I'm not convinced this is the case here, but theoretically you can still be convicted of anti-trust behaviour in a market you don't dominate.


Using dominance in one market to gain success in another is paramount to most business strategies (see: Apple and everything they have done Weeners gen iPod). I don't see the DoJ acting on this when they were on the side lines as Apple basically locked out Adobe's iOS development tools a few years back. That was a direct stab at cross platform development and they flat out ignored it. Hard coding a web browser for a very specific mode of your operating system which runs on a currently unavailable subset of hardware (other than beta units) is a far stretch for anti-competitive actions as compared to the aforementioned. My guess is Microsoft will allow you to select your default search provider, much like the current versions of IE, to get around anti-trust issues. Besides the DoJ is far too busy taking down file sharers and arguing health care law to bother with this ;)
 
2012-05-11 02:17:23 PM

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


It would totally work. Google and Mozilla dev's are just lazy assholes that don't think they should have to put in any effort or *GASP* port their code.It's easier to blame M$ than it is to actually get off their ass and do something about it. Very sad to see.
 
2012-05-11 02:27:53 PM
So they're doing what Apple's been doing for the last half-decade? Oh, I forgot: Apple is a cool, sleek, rebellious, anti-establishment, multi-billion dollar multinational corporation.
 
2012-05-11 02:30:18 PM

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


Apple has not banned competing browsers. Both Firefox and Opera are available on both the iPhone and iPad.

I seem to remember Microsoft getting into trouble over this sort of thing in the past.
 
2012-05-11 02:42:44 PM
Funny, cause I actually use IE.

/What?
 
2012-05-11 02:49:01 PM

kg2095: Apple has not banned competing browsers.


Neither has Microsoft.
 
2012-05-11 03:22:27 PM
Chances of me upgrading to Win 8 without a gun to my head: 0.0
 
2012-05-11 03:34:32 PM

Surool: Chances of me upgrading to Win 8 without a gun to my head: 0.0


i48.tinypic.com

Fair enough. We can do this the hard way if you wish...
 
2012-05-11 03:38:31 PM

Silverstaff: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

You can get other browsers for the iPad. I've got Opera on mine.


Can you get Chrome and Firefox natively?
 
2012-05-11 03:39:47 PM

Empty Matchbook: So they're doing what Apple's been doing for the last half-decade? Oh, I forgot: Apple is a cool, sleek, rebellious, anti-establishment, multi-billion dollar multinational corporation.


Have you missed the people saying Apple isn't doing this? Cause it's not. There are multiple browser options for the iPad.
 
2012-05-11 05:59:13 PM

WhyteRaven74: Empty Matchbook: So they're doing what Apple's been doing for the last half-decade? Oh, I forgot: Apple is a cool, sleek, rebellious, anti-establishment, multi-billion dollar multinational corporation.

Have you missed the people saying Apple isn't doing this? Cause it's not. There are multiple browser options for the iPad.


There will be multiple browser options for Windows tablets. Mozilla, Google, Apple and Opera are all quite welcome to port their browsers to WinRT. They just have to write native Metro based versions, and why would you want anything else if you're going to buy a Windows tablet?

When saying Apple does the same thing, it means all apps have to go through their app store and be approved by Apple. It's locked down and you can't install any programs you want on it, only those blessed by Apple's leaders.
 
2012-05-11 06:23:56 PM
Anyone got a better article? This one makes no attempt to explain what is ACTUALLY happening, relying on a goon from firefox to tell us things, and then not anything informative.

Is it locking things out, or is it simply that there is no win32 api so the existing apps wont work?
 
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