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(Fox News)   Microsoft to ban every browser but Internet Explorer from the new version of Windows. This is not a repeat from 1998   (foxnews.com) divider line 264
    More: Fail, Internet Explorer, window, Microsoft, browser, Windows Desktop, landmark ruling, Microsoft Word, SciTech High  
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22433 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 May 2012 at 9:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-11 09:42:21 AM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


The chip isn't the problem. Both Firefox and Chrome can be compiled to run on ARM chips. The problem here is the operating system.

Right now, Windows and Mac don't actually try to block other browsers from running. It sounds like WinRT 8 might do this, though. When an OS is actively trying to stop you from running, getting around those blocks can become a big problem.
 
2012-05-11 09:42:50 AM  
What i dont understand is why MS is obligated to enable competition for itself.

The REAL way this should have worked is that MS Closes down windows for all MS products only forcing competators to come out with their own operating systems to rival windows.

Then we have TRUE competition.
 
2012-05-11 09:43:25 AM  

cleek: i find it odd that people seem to think MS is under some kind of obligation to natively support every existing application on every OS they develop.


The obligation is not to support your competition, just to not artificially lock them out.
 
2012-05-11 09:43:33 AM  
And you know what these arguments always remind me of? UNIX.

Old folks may remember the days when you had System V and SunOS and Xenix and none of them ever seemed to really play well together. You might be able to get a piece of software for one, but not another because each vendor did its own thing and locked out interoperability. System boards only fit in one server, cards were only available for one type of UNIX... you didn't buy a server and then you could run Unix or Linux or Windows or OS/2 on it. You bought a system that ran a version of Unix and that was it. If you didn't use that vendor anymore, odds were pretty good your whole machine became a useless pile of digital trash.

It sucked. And it seems like with the lack of technical knowledge so prevalent in the younger generations that we're going back that way with phones and tablets. Apps works on iOS but not Android and now we're going to have a special class of Windows RT apps.

Maybe I'm wrong or maybe kids just don't give a shiat about the lack of interoperability, but I remember when shiat only worked on one computer at a time and it was really, really annoying.... I'd rather not go through it for another generation.
 
2012-05-11 09:43:43 AM  
Ive never seen people fight so hard over products that dont actually make you any money. Its not fair that we cant give our product away for free as easily as they give theirs away for free! Waaaah.

WTF.
 
2012-05-11 09:43:44 AM  

cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.


When Apple does this: "Hey, it's their OS, they can do what they want with it. Frankly, it's less buggy this way. That's why Apple just works and Microsoft suxxzorz lolobluescreen!!!"

When Microsoft does this: "OMG ANTITRUST!!!! SOMEONE START AN INVESTIGATION! THIS IS AN OUTRAGE!!!"
 
2012-05-11 09:43:48 AM  

HeartBurnKid: They're talking about WinRT, the ARM version of Win8. The desktop interface in WinRT ONLY allows you to run Microsoft-authorized software, and at this time there's only two planned: Office, and Internet Explorer. Not that the Metro interface is much better; on there, you can only run programs from Microsoft's app store. And, of course, the design spec for WinRT requires Secure Boot, which ensures that you will never be able to install a non-MS OS on there without some serious hacking.

WinRT is MS's attempt to iOS-ize Windows. I hope it fails.


Nope. Writing this from a winrt tablet with vlc, chrome, and a crapload of other stuff installed.
 
2012-05-11 09:44:12 AM  
So what are they going to do? Have a blocker that doesn't allow to you install 3rd party browsers?

/dnrtfa
 
2012-05-11 09:44:42 AM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


They can and already have. I have several Linux-on-ARM devices, and have firefox running on one and 'Fennec' (lightweight firefox for phones and things) on another. This is (as Splinshints said) a matter of not being given the full details of how to operate/build software for the platform properly.

TBH the only thing that interests me about Windows-on-ARM is how cheap the devices are going to be, and how soon someone manages to make android or debian boot on them...
 
2012-05-11 09:44:50 AM  
So, I should do what I did with Vista. Skip it and wait until the next version comes out.
 
2012-05-11 09:45:02 AM  

Spawn_of_Cthulhu: As a non-programmer, I guess I can't understand why Chrome and Firefox can't just write versions of the software that will work on ARM. They have versions for both Windows and Mac, right? Can someone explain why that wouldn't work?


They can do it, you know like the way that Chrome can be installed on a Mac or Firefox can be installed on an Android device.
 
2012-05-11 09:46:04 AM  

Trance750: So what are they going to do? Have a blocker that doesn't allow to you install 3rd party browsers?

/dnrtfa


Kinda sorta. I believe, and I could be wrong, that WinRT will be locked down from running unsigned code. The only way to get your code signed will be through the Windows marketplace on the tablet. This is why third party browsers may be allowed in metro, but not Classic Mode.
 
2012-05-11 09:46:13 AM  
Troll. You can have whatever browser you want in Windows 8. In Windows RT, you're limited to browsers running in Metro, but you still can install other browsers, so long as they're programmed to work in Metro.
 
2012-05-11 09:46:13 AM  

GoGoGadgetLiver: The Metro UI is actually driven by the browser engine. If they want to offer a fast and reliable UI they will need control over it. Let them whine all they want but I'm glad Microsoft is doing this. You can still put your own browser in, it just won't run the main UI of the operating system.

I don't see anyone whining that Chromebooks won't load a separate browser, or iOS, or Android.

Get over it.


That was true of Windows 98, as well.
 
2012-05-11 09:47:51 AM  
Tablets are probably gonna die. They're stupid stripped down junk bought by chumps who don't know any better. Microsoft phones suck as well and will probably get steamrolled by Android.

It may not be a big deal unless somehow their phone OS takes off. I can't believe they renamed it again. Pegasus, CE 1.0 - infinity, Mobile 1.0 - infinity, CE Mobile...

I gave up after that.
 
2012-05-11 09:48:00 AM  
At the end of the day, I don't think it will matter though. I think at the end of the day, Windows will still be tied to x86. The big reason people will want Windows tablets will be for legacy app support, and WinRT does no good there.

For the non-walled garden tablets, Android will probably be the way to go for ARM. The fate of Windows is tied to the PC. For phones and tablets, it's a two horse race between Apple and Google.

Ten years from now, Microsoft will be competing with Linux(the year of the Linux desktop will finally come when the desktop dies) for what remains of the desktop market with Android as the majority in the tablet and phone market and Apple with a healthy(especially for a single company on its own platform) 25-30% share that probably make more money off higher margins than the combined manufacturers that make up the Android market.
 
2012-05-11 09:48:27 AM  

bunner: Would somebody please explain to me why it's so f*cking important which does-the-same-damn-thing-essentially browser people use, from an economic standpoint? It's not like I cut a check to MS, Google or Mozilla.


You may not cut a check, but they do make money from you using their browser. You know that handy little search bar in the corner of every browser nowadays? Each and every one of those search engines is an affiliate link, so when you, for example, search Google from the Firefox search bar, Google gives Mozilla a few cents. That's why it matters to them.

Why should it matter to you? Well, remember when Microsoft all-but-drove Netscape out of business, and we ended up with an Internet Explorer that was completely stagnant, missing a bunch of features that have become key to the browsing experience, and incompatible with the established standards, but you still had to use it sometimes because some sites only worked with that? Imagine that scenario happening again. Except without even the option of using something modern.
 
2012-05-11 09:48:35 AM  

poisonedpawn78: What i dont understand is why MS is obligated to enable competition for itself.

The REAL way this should have worked is that MS Closes down windows for all MS products only forcing competators to come out with their own operating systems to rival windows.

Then we have TRUE competition.


ubuntu is waiting in the wings. There was something on /. Or the reg about ubuntu shipping on 5 percent of pc's worldwide. Probably not entirely accurate but interesting.
 
2012-05-11 09:48:52 AM  
But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?
 
2012-05-11 09:48:59 AM  

sharkbeagle: Luckily EVERYTHING Microsoft has ever and will ever do on EVERY non PC platform fails. So I'm not worried what the 139 people world wide who get a Win8 Metro phone tablet combo have to suffer. They don't know what a browser IS.


asset3.cbsistatic.com
 
2012-05-11 09:49:02 AM  

MightyPez: Trance750: So what are they going to do? Have a blocker that doesn't allow to you install 3rd party browsers?

/dnrtfa

Kinda sorta. I believe, and I could be wrong, that WinRT will be locked down from running unsigned code. The only way to get your code signed will be through the Windows marketplace on the tablet. This is why third party browsers may be allowed in metro, but not Classic Mode.


The main reason I don't use IE is because I can't go 5 minutes without it crashing or locking up
 
2012-05-11 09:49:05 AM  
That might just get me to finally jump ship to Ubuntu just out of spite.
 
2012-05-11 09:49:36 AM  
If they wanted to restrict access to the old environment it should have it should have just been removed completely and the OS made Metro only. This would have worked fine on their phones and tablets, but those idiots also want to run this abomination on desktops where the classic environment is required for older programs to work. This one size fits all Windows 8 is one of the dumbest things they've ever done. There should be two versions, one for desktops without this metro BS and one for tablets. I hope Windows 8 fails so hard that Microsoft Bob looks like a huge success in comparison.
 
2012-05-11 09:49:54 AM  
Has anyone found thi on a credible website, becouse I trust any scince or technology news from fox as much as I trust the unbiased political reporting
 
2012-05-11 09:50:05 AM  

Alonjar: Ive never seen people fight so hard over products that dont actually make you any money. Its not fair that we cant give our product away for free as easily as they give theirs away for free! Waaaah.

WTF.


Mozilla and Opera get paid for traffic, by Google. That's why google search is so well integrated, well that and it's really useful. I'm not sure about Opera, but for Mozilla that makes up a large part, or even the majority, of their funding.

Google seem to like the idea of driving things with their own browser, and keeping the competition going too. It's a bit odd.
 
2012-05-11 09:50:13 AM  

McManus_brothers: spentmiles: Internet Explorer does everything that I need it to do, like my taxes and banking, reports sports scores, and even gives me new recipes to try. I don't see why anyone would need any other browser because IE seems to have everything you can imagine inside of it. I've heard that Firefox doesn't even have Bing because it is too complex to run on the Mozilla OS. And believe me, as a Federal Judge, I take all of this into consideration when I rule on these cases.

Eh, not your best stuff.


I disagree. This one got a chuckle out of me.
 
2012-05-11 09:51:06 AM  

way south: Silverstaff: cman: Umm, did subby RTFA?

For Desktop/laptop computers you still have a choice.

This is for the ARM variant OS designed for tablets. Like Apple, Microsoft is locking it down.

You can get other browsers for the iPad. I've got Opera on mine.

Technically, but there isn't much difference where it matters. Still no native flash or changing certain defaults. You end up using Safari much of the time anyway.

What I think is ironic is that Apple stunted its growth with the walled garden model early on, where Microsoft flourished doing the opposite. You'd hope they'd bring that theory to opening up the tablet frontier instead of copying Apples shtick.


Microsoft did well in the 80s and 90s because of marketing. Even though their products were absolute rubbish.

Apple did well in the 2000s because of marketing, they destroyed Microsoft even though Windows quality improved significantly.

The latest Linux distros are very user friendly. If it weren't for gaming I'd never install Windows again.
 
2012-05-11 09:51:20 AM  

Splinshints: Maybe I'm wrong or maybe kids just don't give a shiat about the lack of interoperability, but I remember when shiat only worked on one computer at a time and it was really, really annoying.... I'd rather not go through it for another generation.


The situation is a little different now. Most modern apps exist on both the Android and iOS eventually, where there was a real interoperability issue back then because the developers were locked into only a certain platform version. Whether Android and iOS apps will develop a MS version, or even be allowed to, is still to be determined.
 
2012-05-11 09:51:48 AM  

lectos: But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?


On the desktop yes, on ARM tablets they have to be Metro apps or they aren't allowed, and even then they have to be approved by Microsoft's app store.
 
2012-05-11 09:52:01 AM  

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: HeartBurnKid: They're talking about WinRT, the ARM version of Win8. The desktop interface in WinRT ONLY allows you to run Microsoft-authorized software, and at this time there's only two planned: Office, and Internet Explorer. Not that the Metro interface is much better; on there, you can only run programs from Microsoft's app store. And, of course, the design spec for WinRT requires Secure Boot, which ensures that you will never be able to install a non-MS OS on there without some serious hacking.

WinRT is MS's attempt to iOS-ize Windows. I hope it fails.

Nope. Writing this from a winrt tablet with vlc, chrome, and a crapload of other stuff installed.


I'd like to know how you managed that, considering there aren't any WinRT tablets on the market yet and there are no WinRT ports of either Chrome or VLC. Are you using an x86 tablet with the Win8 Consumer Preview installed? Because Win8 and WinRT are not the same thing.
 
2012-05-11 09:52:35 AM  
I'm using my desktop system less and less, and using my A500 tab more and more. So, I'm having hard time giving a rats ass what M$ does. 7 runs fine, and will probably be good until I eliminate the desktop in the next while. I never though I'd give up a desktop system, I guess I'm old school, but gotta say. I love my tablet.
 
2012-05-11 09:52:54 AM  

cardex: Has anyone found thi on a credible website, becouse I trust any scince or technology news from fox as much as I trust the unbiased political reporting


The Register is also running it. They're a pretty reliable tech-news site.
 
2012-05-11 09:53:15 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Well, remember when Microsoft all-but-drove Netscape out of business, and we ended up with an Internet Explorer that was completely stagnant, missing a bunch of features that have become key to the browsing experience, and incompatible with the established standards, but you still had to use it sometimes because some sites only worked with that?.


no.
 
2012-05-11 09:53:54 AM  
CNTRL-ALT-DEL
 
2012-05-11 09:54:01 AM  

Skyfrog: lectos: But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?

On the desktop yes, on ARM tablets they have to be Metro apps or they aren't allowed, and even then they have to be approved by Microsoft's app store.


Then I don't see many people buying it. If I spend $$$ on a system, I want to be able to run it as I want, not as they tell me to.
 
2012-05-11 09:54:43 AM  

indarwinsshadow: I'm using my desktop system less and less, and using my A500 tab more and more. So, I'm having hard time giving a rats ass what M$ does. 7 runs fine, and will probably be good until I eliminate the desktop in the next while. I never though I'd give up a desktop system, I guess I'm old school, but gotta say. I love my tablet.


Im guessing you didnt read the article since they are talking about a tablet specific version of windows.
 
2012-05-11 09:55:16 AM  

Gothnet: cardex: Has anyone found thi on a credible website, becouse I trust any scince or technology news from fox as much as I trust the unbiased political reporting

The Register is also running it. They're a pretty reliable tech-news site.


So is Ars Technica.
 
2012-05-11 09:55:21 AM  
Microsoft should be able to do whatever the fark they want.
It drives me nuts when lawyers and judges get to decide things like which browser need to be able to run on some OS.

Especially in a tablet world, they probably don't want Metro to get fragmented and farked up like is happening to Android. They don't want people to hate them because third party software ruins their UI.

If you don't like it, don't buy it.

// sad Android fan
 
2012-05-11 09:55:54 AM  

Alonjar: HeartBurnKid: Well, remember when Microsoft all-but-drove Netscape out of business, and we ended up with an Internet Explorer that was completely stagnant, missing a bunch of features that have become key to the browsing experience, and incompatible with the established standards, but you still had to use it sometimes because some sites only worked with that?.

no.


Then you have a very short memory.
 
2012-05-11 09:56:55 AM  

Gothnet: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: TBH the only thing that interests me about Windows-on-ARM is how cheap the devices are going to be, and how soon someone manages to make android or debian boot on them...


I'm pretty sure that there's a debian build somewhere that runs on my 2 slice toaster or the loose Nokia 5100 series phone in my basement. When I think of Linux in places you wouldn't expect it to run - my mind immediately goes to debian.
 
2012-05-11 09:57:03 AM  

Mumbler: Microsoft should be able to do whatever the fark they want.
It drives me nuts when lawyers and judges get to decide things like which browser need to be able to run on some OS.



Microsoft have been convicted of anti-trust, abusive, monopolistic behaviour on at least two continents. They don't get to play by their own rules any more because they can't be trusted.
 
2012-05-11 09:57:50 AM  

spentmiles: Internet Explorer does everything that I need it to do, like my taxes and banking, reports sports scores, and even gives me new recipes to try. I don't see why anyone would need any other browser because IE seems to have everything you can imagine inside of it. I've heard that Firefox doesn't even have Bing because it is too complex to run on the Mozilla OS. And believe me, as a Federal Judge, I take all of this into consideration when I rule on these cases.


6.5/10
Good. Not your best work though. I'm actualy disapointed.
 
2012-05-11 09:58:23 AM  
I'm sort of curious to see where this goes, since my computer usage tends to skip over the even Windows releases (more out of coincidence than Even Windows = bad).

They'll probably try something new in Windows 8 and it will fail -- hard -- but then they retool that into something slightly more useful in Windows 9 and by that point, I might be in the market for a computer upgrade.
 
2012-05-11 09:58:53 AM  

iantm: Gothnet: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: TBH the only thing that interests me about Windows-on-ARM is how cheap the devices are going to be, and how soon someone manages to make android or debian boot on them...

I'm pretty sure that there's a debian build somewhere that runs on my 2 slice toaster or the loose Nokia 5100 series phone in my basement. When I think of Linux in places you wouldn't expect it to run - my mind immediately goes to debian.


Problem is, part of the design spec for ARM-based WinRT tablets is that they must use Secure Boot. This poses a problem for anybody wanting to put an alternative OS on there; either they'll need to get their OS image signed by the tablet manufacturer (fat chance) or they'll need to hack around it.
 
2012-05-11 09:59:24 AM  

Trance750: Skyfrog: lectos: But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?

On the desktop yes, on ARM tablets they have to be Metro apps or they aren't allowed, and even then they have to be approved by Microsoft's app store.

Then I don't see many people buying it. If I spend $$$ on a system, I want to be able to run it as I want, not as they tell me to.


That seems reasonable, except look at Apple. They do the same thing and people rush to their stores to buy iPads.
 
2012-05-11 10:00:05 AM  
i190.photobucket.com
/Furry thread!
 
2012-05-11 10:00:05 AM  

Trance750: Skyfrog: lectos: But Firefox and Chome run just fine on Win 8/RT and etc.... Faux news is making shiat up again?

On the desktop yes, on ARM tablets they have to be Metro apps or they aren't allowed, and even then they have to be approved by Microsoft's app store.

Then I don't see many people buying it. If I spend $$$ on a system, I want to be able to run it as I want, not as they tell me to.


You and me both. Unfortunately, it seems like we're the exception these days.
 
2012-05-11 10:00:37 AM  

HeartBurnKid: iantm: Gothnet: Spawn_of_Cthulhu: TBH the only thing that interests me about Windows-on-ARM is how cheap the devices are going to be, and how soon someone manages to make android or debian boot on them...

I'm pretty sure that there's a debian build somewhere that runs on my 2 slice toaster or the loose Nokia 5100 series phone in my basement. When I think of Linux in places you wouldn't expect it to run - my mind immediately goes to debian.

Problem is, part of the design spec for ARM-based WinRT tablets is that they must use Secure Boot. This poses a problem for anybody wanting to put an alternative OS on there; either they'll need to get their OS image signed by the tablet manufacturer (fat chance) or they'll need to hack around it.



It does seem that they're writing "No Linux allowed!" in big letters all over their boot sequence, which is precisely why some enterprising hacker will take the time to figure it out!
 
2012-05-11 10:01:08 AM  

hitlersbrain: Tablets are probably gonna die. They're stupid stripped down junk bought by chumps who don't know any better. Microsoft phones suck as well and will probably get steamrolled by Android.

It may not be a big deal unless somehow their phone OS takes off. I can't believe they renamed it again. Pegasus, CE 1.0 - infinity, Mobile 1.0 - infinity, CE Mobile...

I gave up after that.


I'll bet you still have a rotary phone because those newfangled touch-tone phones are just stripped down junk bought by chumps.

Full-sized desktops and laptops are what is going to die. They will not be needed in five to 10 years. Apple and others are already working on tablets that will wirelessly integrate with peripherals so that they can serve as desktops. In fact, Apple's about 90% there already. iPad is a prototype of things to come.
 
2012-05-11 10:01:26 AM  

HeartBurnKid: Alonjar: HeartBurnKid: Well, remember when Microsoft all-but-drove Netscape out of business, and we ended up with an Internet Explorer that was completely stagnant, missing a bunch of features that have become key to the browsing experience, and incompatible with the established standards, but you still had to use it sometimes because some sites only worked with that?.

no.

Then you have a very short memory.


He's probably 12 years old.
 
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