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(Yahoo)   If you're an MLB pitcher and have never tried the fake-to-third-throw-to-first move, you'd better do it before it's too late   (news.yahoo.com ) divider line
    More: Hero, Major League Baseball, interception, Ervin Santana, Boone Logan, Mike Scioscia, Rafael Soriano, rules committee, Jim Joyce  
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3640 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 May 2012 at 6:07 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-10 04:06:51 PM  
i182.photobucket.com

Inconsolable.
 
2012-05-10 04:20:06 PM  
If you're a runner on first, you shouldn't be falling for this stunt.
 
2012-05-10 06:10:49 PM  
Booooooooooooooo!
 
2012-05-10 06:13:43 PM  
Shut up, Boone Logan, you cock mewling quim.
 
2012-05-10 06:15:04 PM  
I remember seeing it work once.

t1.gstatic.com

ONCE.
 
2012-05-10 06:16:39 PM  

Cagey B: [i182.photobucket.com image 300x437]

Inconsolable.


professionalathletehomes.files.wordpress.com

Outraged.
 
2012-05-10 06:17:56 PM  
About farking time. The next thing they need to do is enforce the 12 second rule for pitchers to deliver the next pitch when the bases are empty. Put a farking time clock behind home plate if you need to.
 
2012-05-10 06:19:45 PM  
Did this set a record for most keywords?
 
2012-05-10 06:20:52 PM  

BKITU: I remember seeing it work once.

[t1.gstatic.com image 204x153]

ONCE.


Me too, during the 1994 post season.
 
2012-05-10 06:21:29 PM  

BKITU: I remember seeing it work once.

[t1.gstatic.com image 204x153]

ONCE.


The Angels have actually pulled it off twice against the Yankees in the last year.
 
2012-05-10 06:22:10 PM  
Yankees reliever Boone Logan .... "Us lefties can't do that. If we do, they call a balk."

Really? That's your logic? Maybe we should ban lefties tossing to first next, since RHP can't do that.
 
2012-05-10 06:33:12 PM  
Big deal, the hidden ball trick is still legal.
 
2012-05-10 06:34:05 PM  
Yankees reliever Boone Logan .... "Besides, how often does it work? Maybe once in never"

Do you even watch the games when you're not pitching, dumbass?

/If you want to get rid of something in MLB, Bud Selig, and the DH, would be the place to start.
 
2012-05-10 06:39:05 PM  

Mr. Potatoass: the DH


No way, the DH is the best thing ever put in place. Nobody wants to see a pitcher hit.
 
2012-05-10 06:40:38 PM  
The very last line of the article - "A pickoff move that's been part of baseball strategy for years might get picked off next season." If you are a journalist and someone didn't realize what you were talking about by the time they get to the end of your article...you need to find a new career.
 
2012-05-10 06:48:14 PM  

Mr. Potatoass: the DH


this is the baseball thread equivalent of a Godwin
 
2012-05-10 07:03:24 PM  

Mr. Potatoass: Yankees reliever Boone Logan .... "Besides, how often does it work? Maybe once in never"

Do you even watch the games when you're not pitching, dumbass?

/If you want to get rid of something in MLB, Bud Selig, and the DH, would be the place to start.


You realize that in all likelihood, Selig is the only reason the DH isn't in the NL? When he leaves, the smart money is that the NL will have the DH added during the next CBA.
 
2012-05-10 07:06:26 PM  

UNC_Samurai: Big deal, the hidden ball trick is still legal.


that was my headline :(. "mlb banning 'fake to 3rd, throw to first' pickoff move. hiddne ball trick seen snickering in the corner").

and with Pettite returning to MLB after an 18 month hiatus, this is topical.....was it not him that pissed off managers for his pick off move? i forget if he'd take an exaggerated step towards first then go gome, or step towards home then go to first, but either way I'm pretty sure he was hated for his balk-off move.

Plus, ANDY PETTITE HAS THE EYES OF A GOAT. AND ESPN, ENOUGH WITH THE CLOSEUPS OF HIM STARING AT THE CATCHER. JUST BECAUSE HE'S STARING AT JORGE POSADA LIKE HE'S TRYING TO BURN A HOLE THROUGH HIM DOESN'T MEAN HE WANTS TO WIN MORE THAN ANYONE ELSE. AND THESE CLOSEUPS REMIND ME A DAVID LYNCH FILM.

/obscure?
 
2012-05-10 07:07:05 PM  

DeWayne Mann: Mr. Potatoass: Yankees reliever Boone Logan .... "Besides, how often does it work? Maybe once in never"

Do you even watch the games when you're not pitching, dumbass?

/If you want to get rid of something in MLB, Bud Selig, and the DH, would be the place to start.

You realize that in all likelihood, Selig is the only reason the DH isn't in the NL? When he leaves, the smart money is that the NL will have the DH added during the next CBA.


That sounds like strike talk to me.
 
2012-05-10 07:09:39 PM  

satanorsanta: DeWayne Mann: Mr. Potatoass: Yankees reliever Boone Logan .... "Besides, how often does it work? Maybe once in never"

Do you even watch the games when you're not pitching, dumbass?

/If you want to get rid of something in MLB, Bud Selig, and the DH, would be the place to start.

You realize that in all likelihood, Selig is the only reason the DH isn't in the NL? When he leaves, the smart money is that the NL will have the DH added during the next CBA.

That sounds like strike talk to me.


Why? Who would oppose it, other than the NL fans, a few pitchers, and some old school NL owners? The union (in general) and more than half the owners would support it. Presumably the new commish would too.

So who would strike?
 
2012-05-10 07:15:26 PM  

9beers: No way, the DH is the best thing ever put in place. Nobody wants to see a pitcher hit.



pitchers should absolutely hit. no one wants to see some fat washed up former steroids case bat 4x a game without ever fielding a position either.

plus, i guarantee you your Clemenses, Martinezes of the world would have been a hell of a lot less brave headhunting if they were going to stand in the box.

(yes, i remember the 2002 subway series rematch when that Met pitcher wussed out and threw a 62MPH ball 55 feet towards Clemens in retaliation for Clemens banking a 98MPH heater against Mike "I'm Not Gay" Piazza's damn forehead).

/plus the story i heard told on sports radio of some interleague game, or perhaps when clemens was an Astro, of Clemens getting on base, then getting checked back to first 4-5 times. Clemens was not in good shape at the time and after the 4th or 5th time he had to scamper back, he told the 1B "if that submitch throws here again, you're gonna catch a fastball with your ear next at-bat."

1b wisely backed up to the outfield grass....
 
2012-05-10 07:16:34 PM  

DeWayne Mann:
You realize that in all likelihood, Selig is the only reason the DH isn't in the NL? When he leaves, the smart money is that the NL will have the DH added during the next CBA.


That will be a sad day for baseball.
 
2012-05-10 07:20:26 PM  

Mr. Potatoass: That will be a sad day for baseball.



yeah, i hate the DH but it isn't going away. the union sees it as a way to keep aging 'stars' in the game. CHA CHINGGGGGG.

that said, i'd rather see it limited to the AL instead of made MLB-wide. it adds a bit of charm to interleague and the World Series and some genuine strategy. "hmm.......should I leave Mariano in? he's due to bat next inning.....but he's ptiching well.....hmm...."
 
2012-05-10 07:23:11 PM  

rickythepenguin: plus, i guarantee you your Clemenses, Martinezes of the world would have been a hell of a lot less brave headhunting if they were going to stand in the box.


Fun fact: the only year Pedro led the league in HBP was when he was pitching for Montreal.

rickythepenguin: that said, i'd rather see it limited to the AL instead of made MLB-wide


There's no way that'll happen with the Astros moving to the AL. The best case scenario for non-DH fans is an agreement like what's in the minor leagues: no-DH when two NL clubs are playing, DH at all other times.
 
2012-05-10 07:33:40 PM  

DeWayne Mann: The best case scenario for non-DH fans is an agreement like what's in the minor leagues: no-DH when two NL clubs are playing, DH at all other times.



uhhhhh.............so you want the DH added MLB-wide but you'd limit to the AL?

*quizzical dog*
 
2012-05-10 07:37:11 PM  

rickythepenguin: DeWayne Mann: The best case scenario for non-DH fans is an agreement like what's in the minor leagues: no-DH when two NL clubs are playing, DH at all other times.


uhhhhh.............so you want the DH added MLB-wide but you'd limit to the AL?

*quizzical dog*


I'm just gonna let you think about that. Maybe you could ponder what my first sentence has to do with what you quoted.
 
2012-05-10 07:37:14 PM  

rickythepenguin: DeWayne Mann: The best case scenario for non-DH fans is an agreement like what's in the minor leagues: no-DH when two NL clubs are playing, DH at all other times.


uhhhhh.............so you want the DH added MLB-wide but you'd limit to the AL?

*quizzical dog*


You're going to have expanded interleague play starting next year.
 
2012-05-10 07:37:38 PM  

9beers: Mr. Potatoass: the DH

No way, the DH is the best thing ever put in place. Nobody wants to see a pitcher hit.


newspaper.li

You give Carlos Zambrano a sad.
 
2012-05-10 07:37:51 PM  

Mr. Potatoass: rickythepenguin: DeWayne Mann: The best case scenario for non-DH fans is an agreement like what's in the minor leagues: no-DH when two NL clubs are playing, DH at all other times.


uhhhhh.............so you want the DH added MLB-wide but you'd limit to the AL?

*quizzical dog*

You're going to have expanded interleague play starting next year.


No fair telling him the answer.
 
2012-05-10 07:43:27 PM  
The "it never works" complaint that mediocre announcers always make when this move doesn't get an out gets old. First off, the real goal is not necessarily a pickoff but to keep the runner on first close. Secondly, maybe I watch too much baseball, but I see it pick a runner off first about five times a year. Yet every time, it seems, the announcer acts like he just saw Rafael Belliard hit an upper deck home run.
 
2012-05-10 07:45:19 PM  

Mr. Potatoass: You're going to have expanded interleague play starting next year.



yeah, but don't they currently do it based upon whose park the interleague game is in? when the Yankees came to the Snakes a couple of years ago, one of the issues was "lol how is joba / mariano / sabathia (actually, not sure if he was even on the team) going to bat?"

either way, the DH is lame. that's not baseball. you field a position, then you bat. it would be like having a designated free throw shooter or designated putter.
 
2012-05-10 07:47:00 PM  

Maybe you should drive: Secondly, maybe I watch too much baseball, but I see it pick a runner off first about five times a year.



the coolest pickoff is when the catcher cathces someone sleeping at first. Javy Lopez (braves) was deadly with that one back in the day.
 
2012-05-10 07:48:37 PM  
Dh sucks. It's just another way for large spending teams to have an advantage.
 
2012-05-10 07:57:09 PM  

rickythepenguin: Mr. Potatoass: You're going to have expanded interleague play starting next year.


yeah, but don't they currently do it based upon whose park the interleague game is in? when the Yankees came to the Snakes a couple of years ago, one of the issues was "lol how is joba / mariano / sabathia (actually, not sure if he was even on the team) going to bat?"

either way, the DH is lame. that's not baseball. you field a position, then you bat. it would be like having a designated free throw shooter or designated putter.


I'm an AL team. Currently, I'm not a fan of having my pitchers hit during interleague, but I know that it's limited to a couple of weeks in the middle of the year. We can plan for it: a week or two before interleague starts, we start having the pitchers take BP. Maybe we adjust the bench/bullpen to prepare for using more PHers. It's an annoyance, but not one that affects the entire season.

Starting next year, I'll have random interleague games peppering the schedule. My pitchers can't get into a rhythm hitting, so they'll have to take BP pretty much all season. Depending on how my specific schedule is set up, I may have problems using a full time DH.

But perhaps most importantly, there will be at least one AL team playing an NL team on the last game of the season next year. Imagine if, say, the White Sox & Tigers are tied for first on the last day of the year...yet the Tigers can't use their DH while the White Sox can. You can say "Well, they should've won more games earlier", but do you think the Tigers' fans will be happy with that line when they miss the playoffs by a run?
 
2012-05-10 07:58:21 PM  

MyRandomName: Dh sucks. It's just another way for large spending teams to have an advantage.


Well, this is the strangest take on the DH I've heard all day. Tell me, exactly, how that works in your mind.
 
2012-05-10 08:02:18 PM  

rickythepenguin: Mr. Potatoass: You're going to have expanded interleague play starting next year.


yeah, but don't they currently do it based upon whose park the interleague game is in? when the Yankees came to the Snakes a couple of years ago, one of the issues was "lol how is joba / mariano / sabathia (actually, not sure if he was even on the team) going to bat?"

either way, the DH is lame. that's not baseball. you field a position, then you bat. it would be like having a designated free throw shooter or designated putter.


I hate the DH as much as the next guy. It takes away from the nuances, and the strategy of the game.

I don't know of any changes regarding the DH for next season.
I assume in interleague play, the use of the DH is still dependent on which league the home team is in.

I believe what DeWayne Mann was suggesting is:
AL vs. AL you'd have the DH
AL vs. NL you'd have the DH regardless of home team
NL vs. NL you'd have no DH
 
2012-05-10 08:07:16 PM  
there are no DH changes planed for next year (it would have to have been approved last year), but I can certainly see something like what DeWayne Mann is suggesting happening
 
2012-05-10 08:07:40 PM  

Mr. Potatoass: I don't know of any changes regarding the DH for next season.
I assume in interleague play, the use of the DH is still dependent on which league the home team is in.


Right now, there are no changes. Selig has suggested using the rules of the ROAD team, which is actually one of his better ideas (not that he was the first to come up with it), but nothing official has changed.

Mr. Potatoass: I believe what DeWayne Mann was suggesting is:
AL vs. AL you'd have the DH
AL vs. NL you'd have the DH regardless of home team
NL vs. NL you'd have no DH


Indeed. And this is how it's done in both AAA and AA.

The problem with this system is very similar to the situation I described above. On the last day of the year, some NL team is going to be playing an AL team, yet their playoff rival is playing an NL team. One of those fanbases is going to complain. It's possible that the team that has to use the DH will be the complaining one, but it's much more likely we'll see something like "Waaah, they got to use a DH instead of using a crappy hitting pitcher! That's why they won!"

Hence, my belief that we'll see the DH all over.
 
2012-05-10 08:10:08 PM  
So... umm... why not instead change the rules to allow faints to first if a runner is on third?
 
2012-05-10 08:11:20 PM  

JPINFV: So... umm... why not instead change the rules to allow faints to first if a runner is on third?


because there's significantly less danger of someone stealing home than stealing second
 
2012-05-10 08:13:02 PM  

The Bestest: JPINFV: So... umm... why not instead change the rules to allow faints to first if a runner is on third?

because there's significantly less danger of someone stealing home than stealing second


Which is funny because Bryce Harper.
 
2012-05-10 08:17:56 PM  

DeWayne Mann: And this is how it's done in both AAA and AA.


Slight clarification on my part:

The PCL, IL, and all three AA leagues have the DH rule. But when two NL affiliates play, there's a gentlemen's agreement that neither club use the DH. This is occasionally not done when one team has a player on a rehab assignment from the big league club (the player can hit but not field), but it's how it typically works.
 
2012-05-10 08:35:46 PM  
the only time they don't do it is when 19 year old bryce harper is on third
 
2012-05-10 08:56:53 PM  

rickythepenguin: (yes, i remember the 2002 subway series rematch when that Met pitcher wussed out and threw a 62MPH ball 55 feet towards Clemens in retaliation for Clemens banking a 98MPH heater against Mike "I'm Not Gay" Piazza's damn forehead).


I was at that game. He didn't bounce it, but he did throw behind him. It was Shawn Estes, who wasn't even on the team at the time of the two Piazza incidents (there was also Clemens hitting Piazza in the head after he had hit a grand slam off him). I think Leiter was supposed to pitch that day but the rotation got messed up because of a rainout.

Later I read that Estes had bumped into Clemens at a restaurant the night before and they basically worked out how it would go down. I even saved the newspaper clipping, Hang on, lemme see if I can find it.

OK, I'm back. "Clemens, who was batting against the Mets for the first time since he drilled Piazza in June 2000, knew that baseball protocol called for retaliation. And Mets pitcher Shawn Estes knew that same protocol meant he had to throw at Clemens.

"But Estes -- in one of the more bizarre stories to emerge from the circus that has become the Subway Series -- actually had Clemens' tacit approval to throw at the future Hall of Famer, and those two players, along with other Yankees and Mets, even joked about 'The Pitch' later that night at a Manhattan restaurant.

"Yesterday, Estes, who now pitches for the Cubs, described during a telephone interview from Cincinnati how he received word from Clemens through baseball's back-channel network. Those discussions, Estes said, happened like this:

"Mark Guthrie, a relief pitcher for the Mets last year, is friendly with a New York restaurateur/night-club owner who also is a friend of Clemens'. Guthrie called that mutual friend before the June 15 game and joked about the upcoming Subway Series, saying, "Shawn's scared to death about how Roger's going to react if he throws at him.

"When Clemens found out, Estes said, he sent word back through the network of friends. By the time word got back to Estes, the message from Clemens was clear: 'I feel bad for Shawn. Tell him not to worry about it.'

"So when Estes actually threw that famous pitch behind him, Clemens barely reacted. In fact, he almost appeared for a moment to tip his cap to Estes. It was true, Estes thought. Clemens not only understood, but was prepared to take his medicine.

"The Mets went on to win the game, 8-0, and Estes even hit a home run off Clemens. But what happened off the field was more entertaining than anything that unfolded during the game.

"A few hours later in a supper club called Trust in the Meatpacking District of Manhattan, Clemens grabbed Estes by the lapels in their first ever introduction, and menacingly threatened payback. While Clemens was jawing at Estes, Jason Giambi of the Yankees was coming over to join the fray.

"'When he came in I grabbed him and said, "All right, you weren't in it before, but you're [sic] (butt) is in it now. The next time I face you, I'm going to drop you,"' Clemens said yesterday. 'He was like, "Oh my God. It wasn't personal."'

"Eventually the players shared the joke with Estes: The confrontation was a joke, cooked up by Clemens and Giambi."

The story goes on from there. "How bad blood turned good fun: Estes tells all about pitch to Clemens" by David Waldstein, The Star-Ledger, June 20, 2003.
 
2012-05-10 09:20:07 PM  
Every thread about any possible baseball rule change will turn into a DH thread. It's baseball's version of Godwin's Law

/DH will be used in the NL within 10 years
 
2012-05-10 09:38:07 PM  
"I think they should get rid of it," Yankees reliever Boone Logan said. "Us lefties can't do that. If we do, they call a balk."

Shut up. Please...
 
2012-05-10 10:03:17 PM  

DeWayne Mann: MyRandomName: Dh sucks. It's just another way for large spending teams to have an advantage.

Well, this is the strangest take on the DH I've heard all day. Tell me, exactly, how that works in your mind.


Teams with low budgets can't spend 12 million a year on a fat ass who can't did, they need players who can field a position and hit. There is a reason superstars like ortiz and manny make millions as a dh. If they had to field their pay would go down.
 
2012-05-10 10:05:00 PM  
First did equals field. Using a mobile. Meh.
 
2012-05-10 10:07:55 PM  

MyRandomName: DeWayne Mann: MyRandomName: Dh sucks. It's just another way for large spending teams to have an advantage.

Well, this is the strangest take on the DH I've heard all day. Tell me, exactly, how that works in your mind.

Teams with low budgets can't spend 12 million a year on a fat ass who can't did, they need players who can field a position and hit. There is a reason superstars like ortiz and manny make millions as a dh. If they had to field their pay would go down.


I want you to think a little bit harder about this argument.
 
2012-05-10 10:12:26 PM  

MyRandomName: DeWayne Mann: MyRandomName: Dh sucks. It's just another way for large spending teams to have an advantage.

Well, this is the strangest take on the DH I've heard all day. Tell me, exactly, how that works in your mind.

Teams with low budgets can't spend 12 million a year on a fat ass who can't did, they need players who can field a position and hit. There is a reason superstars like ortiz and manny make millions as a dh. If they had to field their pay would go down.


You're absolutely right. An NL team like the Dodgers would never, ever pay a guy like Manny Ramirez $20 million per year. Especially not for his age 37 and 38 seasons.
 
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