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(Washington Post)   Although the CIA says waterboarding is not torture, it still wouldn't demonstrate the technique on Sen. Bill Nelson because he might die and stuff   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 142
    More: Obvious, CIA, Dan Balz, waterboarding, torture, Chicago Reader, scientific technique, Daniel Patrick Moynihan, TPMDC  
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7289 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2012 at 1:53 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-10 11:58:42 AM  
This is a mural depicting waterboarding as done by the Khmer Rouge. Its an exhibit at the Museum of Torture in Cambodia.

t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-05-10 12:00:51 PM  
I say we waterboard everyone who does not comply with the health insurance mandate.
 
2012-05-10 12:04:13 PM  
 
2012-05-10 12:06:05 PM  

vernonFL: This is a mural depicting waterboarding as done by the Khmer Rouge. Its an exhibit at the Museum of Torture in Cambodia.

[t1.gstatic.com image 256x192]


www.ausaid.gov.au
This is a photo depicting waterboarding by another Cambodian.

/he's looking for CIA plants, but they're not talking
 
2012-05-10 12:23:22 PM  
The USA sentenced Japanese prisoner-of-war camp officers to death for doing this to US troops.
 
2012-05-10 12:28:21 PM  

Jake Havechek: The USA sentenced Japanese prisoner-of-war camp officers to death for doing this to US troops.


Citation? I know they sentenced a guy to 15 years hard labor, but I never heard of anyone being executed for it.
 
2012-05-10 12:32:22 PM  

queezyweezel: Jake Havechek: The USA sentenced Japanese prisoner-of-war camp officers to death for doing this to US troops.

Citation? I know they sentenced a guy to 15 years hard labor, but I never heard of anyone being executed for it.


Look up the Tokyo Trials.
 
2012-05-10 12:45:18 PM  

Jake Havechek: The USA sentenced Japanese prisoner-of-war camp officers to death for doing this to US troops.


Idiot. It's not torture when *we* do it.

[sparkly-eagle.jpg]
 
2012-05-10 12:48:34 PM  

Jake Havechek: queezyweezel: Jake Havechek: The USA sentenced Japanese prisoner-of-war camp officers to death for doing this to US troops.

Citation? I know they sentenced a guy to 15 years hard labor, but I never heard of anyone being executed for it.

Look up the Tokyo Trials.


I have been, but most of the executions were because of instances when someone died while being "interrogated" (read-tortured). Now don't get me wrong, I don't support waterboarding. Far from it. But I couldn't find any instances where someone was executed simply for waterfboarding a prisoner.
 
2012-05-10 12:52:34 PM  

vernonFL: This is a mural depicting waterboarding as done by the Khmer Rouge. Its an exhibit at the Museum of Torture in Cambodia.

[t1.gstatic.com image 256x192]


Hey we invented waterboarding!


Well. We invented witch boarding.

3.bp.blogspot.com

Well we stole it from the Europeans, but it's as American as apple pie! Which we also didn't invent!

/USA! USA! USA!
 
2012-05-10 01:18:22 PM  

bdub77: vernonFL: This is a mural depicting waterboarding as done by the Khmer Rouge. Its an exhibit at the Museum of Torture in Cambodia.

[t1.gstatic.com image 256x192]

Hey we invented waterboarding!


Well. We invented witch boarding.

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 350x239]

Well we stole it from the Europeans, but it's as American as apple pie! Which we also didn't invent!

/USA! USA! USA!


And deserve to be tortured for it.

t3.gstatic.com
 
2012-05-10 01:44:35 PM  
I can't believe we're still having this conversation. There is an argument (I believe that it is a bad argument, but it's still there) that torture is necessary in extreme cases and the Bush administration did nothing wrong. Fine. We can have that argument. The argument that we absolutely cannot have is whether or not prolonged exposure to cold, sleep deprivation, beatings, humiliation, and waterboarding actually constitute torture. They do. They always have. These are facts.

My favorite "defense" is "we do it to American soldiers during training!" This is true. We do (or used to) waterboard soldiers...in order to train them...to endure TORTURE. This is not goddamn complicated.
 
2012-05-10 01:55:12 PM  
Right. Cruel and Unusual.
 
2012-05-10 01:57:12 PM  

Humean_Nature: I can't believe we're still having this conversation. There is an argument (I believe that it is a bad argument, but it's still there) that torture is necessary in extreme cases and the Bush administration did nothing wrong. Fine. We can have that argument. The argument that we absolutely cannot have is whether or not prolonged exposure to cold, sleep deprivation, beatings, humiliation, and waterboarding actually constitute torture. They do. They always have. These are facts.

My favorite "defense" is "we do it to American soldiers during training!" This is true. We do (or used to) waterboard soldiers...in order to train them...to endure TORTURE. This is not goddamn complicated.


Pretty sure the Obvious tag is needed here.

Anyone who says it isnt torture, just might be mentally retarded. Especially talking about guys who are waterboarded 300+ times.

Pretty sure after my 2nd waterboarding session, Id sign or say whatever the fark they wanted me to.
 
2012-05-10 01:57:20 PM  

PanicMan: Right. Cruel and Unusual.


but not punishment, I like to think of it more as... encouragement.
 
2012-05-10 01:58:27 PM  

Jake Havechek: The USA sentenced Japanese prisoner-of-war camp officers to death for doing this to US troops.


Why do you hate freedom?

/and America?
//and baby Jeebus?
 
2012-05-10 01:58:34 PM  
They should have Tasered the Senator, because Tasers are safe.
 
2012-05-10 01:58:42 PM  
Look, I'm sure when Obama is elected, he'll hope and change our waterboarding policy. All er have to do is get to the polls in Nov- hmm? What's that? He's already been in office for almost a full term? Oh. Well both sides are bad, so vote democratic.
 
2012-05-10 01:59:00 PM  
Bill Nelson is a lot older than the normal subjects, last I checked. And even a tiny chance of death isn't worth applying to a US Senator. They probably wouldn't have him try base jumping either, and people do that voluntarily.
 
2012-05-10 02:01:22 PM  

Humean_Nature: This is not goddamn complicated.


You do realize "complicated" is relative, right? Evolution is "complicated", so....

images4.fanpop.com
 
2012-05-10 02:02:59 PM  
Anything that can cause such intense pain as to put you at risk of a heart attack IS torture. Period. For fark's sake why are we even having this argument any more?

And befor ethe first idiot pops up with "Well they do it SERE School to US troops" let me point out two things:

1) they do it during the time when they try to teach soldiers to resist TORTURE

2) I've strung someone up an used a bullwhip on her. Was that torture? No. Because she asked me nicely and knew I wasn't there to permanantly injure her, and most importantly she knew she could make it all stop by using a magic word. If I kidnapped you off the street and did the same thing to you? THAT would be torture and hopefully I'd go to jail for the rest of my life for doing it to you. See the difference?
 
2012-05-10 02:04:10 PM  
"Even though we would have had medical personnel standing by, we wondered what would happen" if Nelson had a heart attack and died from the unpleasantness ..."

The above made the whole article for me.
 
2012-05-10 02:05:22 PM  

Magorn: Anything that can cause such intense pain as to put you at risk of a heart attack IS torture. Period. For fark's sake why are we even having this argument any more?

And befor ethe first idiot pops up with "Well they do it SERE School to US troops" let me point out two things:

1) they do it during the time when they try to teach soldiers to resist TORTURE

2) I've strung someone up an used a bullwhip on her. Was that torture? No. Because she asked me nicely and knew I wasn't there to permanantly injure her, and most importantly she knew she could make it all stop by using a magic word. If I kidnapped you off the street and did the same thing to you? THAT would be torture and hopefully I'd go to jail for the rest of my life for doing it to you. See the difference?


No, I can't see the difference, maybe some illustrations or pictures or video would help.
ktnksbai
 
2012-05-10 02:05:40 PM  
ahh waterboarding....the old fashioned way...we kids think we invented it or something...then I heard of "The Water Cure" song about the use of water torture in the Philippines in the early 1900s.

/maybe I need to get off my own lawn?
 
2012-05-10 02:05:58 PM  
Where I go you have to pay extra for that.

I guess the CIA isn't giving any freebies.
 
2012-05-10 02:06:31 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Look, I'm sure when Obama is elected, he'll hope and change our waterboarding policy. All er have to do is get to the polls in Nov- hmm? What's that? He's already been in office for almost a full term? Oh. Well both sides are bad, so vote democratic.


And we don't waterboard anymore, and haven't since Bush left office, because Obama Banned the practice right after taking office

Idiot.
 
2012-05-10 02:07:01 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Look, I'm sure when Obama is elected, he'll hope and change our waterboarding policy. All er have to do is get to the polls in Nov- hmm? What's that? He's already been in office for almost a full term? Oh. Well both sides are bad, so vote democratic.


Baby, much like the former Soviet Union we are now a nation with, effectively speaking, a single political party. That's one: count them, one.

Your choices as are voter are: Vote for Obama, stay home.
 
2012-05-10 02:07:46 PM  
Yes, because if they use their manners and say please and thank you the information will just come spilling out of these bad boys.

.
..
...
 
2012-05-10 02:12:35 PM  
If you don't think waterboarding is torture, we'll waterboard you until you admit that it is.
 
2012-05-10 02:12:49 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Look, I'm sure when Obama is elected, he'll hope and change our waterboarding policy. All er have to do is get to the polls in Nov- hmm? What's that? He's already been in office for almost a full term? Oh. Well both sides are bad, so vote democratic.


Look at how stupid you are!

indarwinsshadow: Yes, because if they use their manners and say please and thank you the information will just come spilling out of these bad boys.

.
..
...


Actually...yeah. That works.
 
2012-05-10 02:13:33 PM  

indarwinsshadow: Yes, because if they use their manners and say please and thank you the information will just come spilling out of these bad boys.

.
..
...


How can you trust the information produced by torture?
 
2012-05-10 02:14:23 PM  

Valiente: You do realize "complicated" is relative, right? Evolution is "complicated", so....


What does that even mean? Evolution is complicated so....what? What are you trying to tell me?

/and what the fark is that picture?
 
2012-05-10 02:14:55 PM  
torture is an afternoon with my 11 yr old niece explaining why the Kardashians are "cool"
 
2012-05-10 02:15:14 PM  

Valiente: Humean_Nature: This is not goddamn complicated.

You do realize "complicated" is relative, right? Evolution is "complicated", so....


Haven't thought of this song for years. Now it's in my head. Pretty sure that's worse than waterboarding.
 
2012-05-10 02:15:22 PM  

Humean_Nature: I can't believe we're still having this conversation.


It's a heck of a legacy Bush wrought in making people argue in the modern era that torture is okay. Definitely one of the things he will be reviled remembered for.
 
2012-05-10 02:16:19 PM  

Chinchillazilla: Valiente: Humean_Nature: This is not goddamn complicated.

You do realize "complicated" is relative, right? Evolution is "complicated", so....

Haven't thought of this song for years. Now it's in my head. Pretty sure that's worse than waterboarding.


Whitey have to go and make things so complicated?
 
2012-05-10 02:18:00 PM  
Don't want to get waterboarded? Don't be a terrorist.

seems simple enough
 
2012-05-10 02:19:12 PM  

Humean_Nature: Valiente: You do realize "complicated" is relative, right? Evolution is "complicated", so....

What does that even mean? Evolution is complicated so....what? What are you trying to tell me?

/and what the fark is that picture?



It's Avril Lavigne singing "Complicated", a not very bright girl whining about stupid things in a supposedly artistic fashion.

Also, America is where Jesus fell off his dinosaur on the way to establish a magic underwear factory in Utah, or will be if you guys aren't careful with democracy...which is also complicated.
 
2012-05-10 02:19:16 PM  

jaybeezey: Don't want to get waterboarded? Don't be a terrorist.

seems simple enough


It'd be awesome if it was that simple. It's not, but that doesn't mean we can't imagine that it is.
 
2012-05-10 02:20:19 PM  
FTFA: But Rodriguez points out it would have been even worse: if Nelson "had tragically died, his successor would have been appointed by . . . Jeb Bush, the president's brother. The conspiracy theorists would have gone wild."

Jeb Bush is Obama's brother?
 
2012-05-10 02:21:09 PM  

Chinchillazilla: Valiente: Humean_Nature: This is not goddamn complicated.

You do realize "complicated" is relative, right? Evolution is "complicated", so....

Haven't thought of this song for years. Now it's in my head. Pretty sure that's worse than waterboarding.


Ah, you caught the more subtle part of my post. Sums it up, really.
 
2012-05-10 02:21:25 PM  

Dynascape: Anyone who says it isnt torture, just might be mentally retarded. Especially talking about guys who are waterboarded 300+ times.

Pretty sure after my 2nd waterboarding session, Id sign or say whatever the fark they wanted me to.


And you'd think someone would raise the question of what additional information you could gain by the hundredth dunking that you didn't get out of the first 99, and that just maybe, the technique isn't really effective.
 
2012-05-10 02:22:04 PM  
Rodriguez insists that "while the procedure is harsh and unpleasant," it can't be called torture.

If waterboarding isn't torture then why the fark bother to do it in the first place? Boredom? Amusement?
 
2012-05-10 02:22:42 PM  

Shmoooooo: FTFA: But Rodriguez points out it would have been even worse: if Nelson "had tragically died, his successor would have been appointed by . . . Jeb Bush, the president's brother. The conspiracy theorists would have gone wild."

Jeb Bush is Obama's brother?


Jeb Bush is a foreign Muslim?

Those sneaky bastards!
 
2012-05-10 02:25:34 PM  
Reminder: Sean Hannity still hasn't been waterboarded. What's it been? Two years now?

.... yup.
 
2012-05-10 02:27:26 PM  

indarwinsshadow: Yes, because if they use their manners and say please and thank you the information will just come spilling out of these bad boys.

.
..
...


You know how we got intel out of Saddam after he was captured?

Froot Loops, Fritos and conversation.
 
2012-05-10 02:28:44 PM  

indarwinsshadow: Yes, because if they use their manners and say please and thank you the information will just come spilling out of these bad boys.

.
..
...


That is usually how the FBI does it, and they usually get the info they need.
 
2012-05-10 02:29:06 PM  
I do not object to us banning torture. I object to telling everyone we are not going to do it.

If a insurgent knows the worst we are going to do to him is tickle him with a feather, he might make the decision to take his chances and clam up. If he does not know what we have in our bag of tricks, he might spill the beans without us touching him. The mind is very good at filling in the blanks.
 
2012-05-10 02:29:29 PM  

Noticeably F.A.T.: indarwinsshadow: Yes, because if they use their manners and say please and thank you the information will just come spilling out of these bad boys.

.
..
...

How can you trust the information produced by torture?


I would immediately tell my captors anything to get them to stop torturing me. Am I a huge puss? Probably, but that's how it works. Anyone who advocates torture as effective is misguided.
 
2012-05-10 02:29:29 PM  
I can imagine a lot of things various agencies wouldn't want to expose an aging senator to that aren't torture.
 
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