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(ESPN)   Lin case there were any Lingering doubts, Lin will be an Linportant part of the Knicks team next year   (espn.go.com) divider line 40
    More: Obvious, Knicks, Linportant, LeBron James, Iman Shumpert, AmericanAirlines Arena, athleticism, Tyson Chandler, point guards  
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477 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 May 2012 at 12:04 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-10 09:44:26 AM
Not that the Knicks would have beat the Heat anyway, but the lack of good PG play really hurt. And as good as 'Melo was the past couple of games, there are only so many iso plays I can watch. It was a lot more entertaining when everyone was getting involved. And for fark's sake J.R. Smith, if you don't have it on a given night then don't shoot so much. Especially if an elimination game happens to fall on said night.

We really need Lin to come back strong next year. And when I say "strong" I don't even mean "Linsanity/nobody's figured this guy out yet" strong. I mean "decent NBA starting PG" strong, and I think he's more than capable of that. Shumpert's injury hurt too, hopefully he can get back quick-ish.
 
2012-05-10 12:00:16 PM
The Knicks should try to sign Nash and make Lin his understudy.

Of course, if I were Nash, I would rather go to a team with a legit shot at winning.
 
2012-05-10 12:28:52 PM
Actually Lin might be one piece that they could and should move.

- Won't trade Melo
- Can't trade Amare if you paid another team to take him
- You probably don't want to trade Chandler/Fields/Novak
- JR Smith/Baron/Shumpert/AndTheRest = lol

The Knicks need to bottom out. Melo/Amare isn't going to work out, you might as well cut Amare and trade Melo for whatever you can get, see how good of a back court you really have in Lin/Fields/Novak/Shumpert next year, and hope the ping pong balls bounce your way for Cody Zeller or Nerlens Noel or whomever ends up being the stud big man of 2013.

But they're not going to do that because they're the New York Knicks and they have all this "history of winning" and they always have to be in contention and they'll spend the next 3-4 years being the #7 or #8 seed and getting bounced in the first round.
 
2012-05-10 12:32:54 PM

FreakinB: Not that the Knicks would have beat the Heat anyway, but the lack of good PG play really hurt.


Is Lin more of a slashing SG than a PG? I think they need a true PG who can distribute the ball and control the pace of the game.
 
2012-05-10 12:38:14 PM

jayhawk88: Actually Lin might be one piece that they could and should move.

- Won't trade Melo
- Can't trade Amare if you paid another team to take him
- You probably don't want to trade Chandler/Fields/Novak
- JR Smith/Baron/Shumpert/AndTheRest = lol

The Knicks need to bottom out. Melo/Amare isn't going to work out, you might as well cut Amare and trade Melo for whatever you can get, see how good of a back court you really have in Lin/Fields/Novak/Shumpert next year, and hope the ping pong balls bounce your way for Cody Zeller or Nerlens Noel or whomever ends up being the stud big man of 2013.

But they're not going to do that because they're the New York Knicks and they have all this "history of winning" and they always have to be in contention and they'll spend the next 3-4 years being the #7 or #8 seed and getting bounced in the first round.


Are you serious? I know the Knicks aren't exactly a championship contender, but they're not close to bottoming out either. Say what you will about 'Melo but you can't move him in a sack of magic beans trade and expect people to be ok with that. And like you said, Lin is an intriguing piece that can make this work better. Plus he's too popular. Short of willingly getting bent over in a trade, I don't see how they can bottom out.
 
2012-05-10 12:39:32 PM

Gunny Highway: FreakinB: Not that the Knicks would have beat the Heat anyway, but the lack of good PG play really hurt.

Is Lin more of a slashing SG than a PG? I think they need a true PG who can distribute the ball and control the pace of the game.


From what I've seen, he can be either.
 
2012-05-10 12:47:18 PM

FreakinB: Not that the Knicks would have beat the Heat anyway, but the lack of good PG play really hurt.


Didn't help that a) your starting PG was out and b) your backup PG got hurt.

And as good as 'Melo was the past couple of games, there are only so many iso plays I can watch. It was a lot more entertaining when everyone was getting involved. And for fark's sake J.R. Smith, if you don't have it on a given night then don't shoot so much. Especially if an elimination game happens to fall on said night.

Shumpert was going to be the primary guy covering Wade...until he blew out his knee.

Sadly JR Smith wanted to do his John Starks imitation. :(

We really need Lin to come back strong next year. And when I say "strong" I don't even mean "Linsanity/nobody's figured this guy out yet" strong. I mean "decent NBA starting PG" strong, and I think he's more than capable of that. Shumpert's injury hurt too, hopefully he can get back quick-ish.

What I'm hoping is that Lin can be a nice 3rd option when teams look for 'Melo or A'mare. He's shown it when both of them were hurt this year; I hope they don't declare him an afterthought because he could really be even better with a full training camp under his belt.
 
2012-05-10 12:55:11 PM
The will still suck.
 
2012-05-10 01:07:23 PM

FreakinB: Are you serious? I know the Knicks aren't exactly a championship contender, but they're not close to bottoming out either.


"Bottoming out" might be too strong of a term, but the team as-is (even assuming Lin comes back better than ever next year) looks relegated as somewhere around a 3-7 seed in the East and no better because Chandler cockblocks Amare's offensive game, and since Chandler has barely any offensive game himself, I can't see any team being better than a Rose-led Bulls and the Heat in the long run if they get no consistent scoring from the 4-5 guys.

I think the best they can do is convince Amare to be their "6th" man with Chandler at the 5 and Melo at the 4, and then just play it by ear as to finish the game with both Chandler and Amare in the game or not. Amare just can't play a traditional "4" with another big clogging the lane, and/or is too emo about no longer being the star of the team to get better at it.
 
2012-05-10 01:08:17 PM
10 games:

23.8ppg
9.4 Assist
5.9 Turns
49.7% shooting

Last 15 games:

14.5 ppg
6.5 assist
3.9 Turns
39.3% shooting


He's not that good.
 
2012-05-10 01:09:33 PM

FreakinB: Are you serious? I know the Knicks aren't exactly a championship contender, but they're not close to bottoming out either. Say what you will about 'Melo but you can't move him in a sack of magic beans trade and expect people to be ok with that. And like you said, Lin is an intriguing piece that can make this work better. Plus he's too popular. Short of willingly getting bent over in a trade, I don't see how they can bottom out.


What's the alternative? Get beat by Miami and Chicago in the first round for the next half decade? Look, here's the best case scenario for the Knicks right now:

- Amare is your 6th man and he's OK with that
- Melo stops taking 25 shots a game and accepts the idea this isn't the Michael Jordan Clear Out and Iso NBA any longer
- Lin is a legitimate 15 and 6 PG, and can keep the TO's in check
- Chandler continues to be a defensive anchor
- Shumpert/Novak/Fields are all better-than-average role players

Is that a team that is going to seriously contend for an ECF? Maybe if they take Jeanie Buss hostage and get Phil in there to work his Zen Magic, but I'd argue that aside from Chicago and Miami, both Indy and Philly are still better, as built, than the Knicks. Maybe Atlanta depending on how you feel about them.

What's the point of winning 42-46 games a year and getting trounced by better teams in the playoffs? Hell you could perhaps make the case that Cleveland is in a better position right now than the Knicks, if Irving is the real deal and they were to hit on their two first rounders this year.
 
2012-05-10 01:36:52 PM

jayhawk88: - JR Smith/Baron/Shumpert/AndTheRest = lol


Assuming Shumpert is lumped in with the "lol"s because of his injury. He was shaping up to be a nice asset and he would've been pretty much the Knicks' only marketable trade chip this summer.
 
2012-05-10 01:46:49 PM

MugzyBrown: 10 games:

23.8ppg
9.4 Assist
5.9 Turns
49.7% shooting

Last 15 games:

14.5 ppg
6.5 assist
3.9 Turns
39.3% shooting


He's not that good.


Those last 15 games numbers? If you factor in some maturing they work fine for me. All I'm asking for is decent, not All-Star (though I certainly wouldn't mind All-Star).

jayhawk88: What's the alternative? Get beat by Miami and Chicago in the first round for the next half decade? Look, here's the best case scenario for the Knicks right now:

- Amare is your 6th man and he's OK with that
- Melo stops taking 25 shots a game and accepts the idea this isn't the Michael Jordan Clear Out and Iso NBA any longer
- Lin is a legitimate 15 and 6 PG, and can keep the TO's in check
- Chandler continues to be a defensive anchor
- Shumpert/Novak/Fields are all better-than-average role players


The alternative is to not think that the enemy of perfect is good. That team you just described? Or a team slightly worse than the one you just described? I'll take that. I think there's legitimately enough talent there to be a 3-or-4-seed in the East if everything breaks right. What, exactly, is wrong with that? Yeah they wouldn't be the favorites to win the championship. But who are we going to get to take us to the next level? LeBron? Rose? Durant? They're not available. And like I said, I don't like our chances at getting a #1 pick anytime soon even if we do make some moves. That didn't even happen for us when the team truly did suck.
 
2012-05-10 01:59:41 PM

FreakinB: If you factor in some maturing they work fine for me.


So you're ok with 40th in the league amongst guards in assist/turnover & 54th amongst guards in shooting %?
 
2012-05-10 02:08:08 PM

MugzyBrown: FreakinB: If you factor in some maturing they work fine for me.

So you're ok with 40th in the league amongst guards in assist/turnover & 54th amongst guards in shooting %?


We had these threads way back and you can throw all the numbers you want at me. But I think he can learn, especially to cut back on the turnovers (though he'll probably still have more than most. Just his style.). Aside from that I'm fine with 14-7-ish, and I think he's more than capable of that.
 
2012-05-10 02:10:33 PM

MugzyBrown: FreakinB: If you factor in some maturing they work fine for me.

So you're ok with 40th in the league amongst guards in assist/turnover & 54th amongst guards in shooting %?


Shumbert is not a PG and Baron/Bibby were/are the worst PG combination in the league. I'd take Lin next year for $2.5MM in a heart beat.
 
2012-05-10 02:12:39 PM

haplo53: jayhawk88: - JR Smith/Baron/Shumpert/AndTheRest = lol

Assuming Shumpert is lumped in with the "lol"s because of his injury. He was shaping up to be a nice asset and he would've been pretty much the Knicks' only marketable trade chip this summer.


Agreed on the "shaping up" part, but he's not exactly going to nab you a lottery pick or a quality big either. He'd have a lot less trade value than Lin, just because of the hype/marketing potential a team would get with Lin.
 
2012-05-10 02:28:17 PM

JerseyTim: The Knicks should try to sign Nash and make Lin his understudy.

Of course, if I were Nash, I would rather go to a team with a legit shot at winning.


This is what I've been saying should be their primary goal. And apparently there have been articles where my Knicks fan friend was like "I saw this and it was like, 'holy sh*t, did you write this?'"

1) Knicks actually do have a good team if healthy. Shumpert is the guy they'll use to play D on a team's good PG/SG. Chandler protects the middle well.
2) Nash lives in NY and has played with Amare before and played well with him, so there's potential for the ol' "play with a buddy" thing.
3) The two teams better than the Knicks (saying the Pacers will be above them and Philly is is asinine - Philly wasn't even better than them this year, and they weren't even trying for half the year) are the Bulls (set at PG) and the Heat (can't offer anything more than the Knicks can offer, are more defense-oriented, and have a decent PG anyway in Chalmers). So the Knicks are his best shot if he wants to be a starter, and he's an immediate upgrade.
4) Lin, while I don't think he's as good as the hype indicated, is competent - he needs to cut down on the turnovers and get better shots. He's a smart kid and Nash seems like someone who is more than willing to teach - seems like a great situation for both guys there.
5) Playing in the East means a relatively easier path to the Finals
6) The main problem is the whole Melo needing to have the ball thing, which I think is overrated - I liken it to the situation where Kobe was uncontrollable...except by Phil Jackson, because Jackson had the rep for being a great player. Similarly, game recognizes game, and Melo will be far more accepting of a 2x league MVP coming in and running the show and getting him touches than a guy who came from nowhere over a span of two weeks.

You can say that the Knicks aren't going to win so they should just blow it up...the same goes for 90 percent of the league. This year, it's Heat, Thunder, or Spurs (the Bulls were the only other team with a shot).

The Knicks become a big threat to any of those teams with their current roster getting healthy and an upgrade to Nash at the point. I don't think they'll win it all, but they have as good a chance as anyone.
 
2012-05-10 02:37:45 PM

jayhawk88: Agreed on the "shaping up" part, but he's not exactly going to nab you a lottery pick or a quality big either.


No, but if the Knicks had even a sliver of hope of getting rid of Amare, Shumpert almost certainly would have been the first guy other teams asked for in any kind of package.
 
2012-05-10 02:39:57 PM
I'd just like to say that despite all my defense of Lin here, if there's the chance to get Nash, do it.
 
2012-05-10 03:04:59 PM

haplo53: jayhawk88: Agreed on the "shaping up" part, but he's not exactly going to nab you a lottery pick or a quality big either.

No, but if the Knicks had even a sliver of hope of getting rid of Amare, Shumpert almost certainly would have been the first guy other teams asked for in any kind of package.


I don't know, can you see anyone willing to take on his contract, regardless of what else they might get? Dude is going to be making $23m in '14-15. That's not even a team or player option either; straight cash money.

Between Melo, Chandler, and Amare the Knicks have $51, $56, and (assuming Melo picks up his '14-15 player option) $60 large of cap room being chewed up over the next three seasons. The cap was, what, $58 this year? It'll go up but not all that much. The Knicks are SCREWED, that's why I don't really think they can just stand pat. It doesn't seem like this team can get it done (especially considering where the two top dogs in the East are now), and there's no help coming, unless you think J'Covan Brown or whatever bench-warmer they can pick up in the second round this year is the answer.
 
2012-05-10 03:06:23 PM
I think a Nash / Lin combo would be ideal. Lin could learn a lot from Nash for a year or two and absorb some playing time to keep Nash fresh for the playoffs.
 
2012-05-10 03:15:00 PM

elguerodiablo: I think a Nash / Lin combo would be ideal. Lin could learn a lot from Nash for a year or two and absorb some playing time to keep Nash fresh for the playoffs.


See I think this would be a bad idea. We saw enough of Lin last year that I think you can mark him down for at least a decent NBA PG, and I'm sure he thinks that at least. He's not going to want to ride the pine again, and the fans aren't going to like it either first time Nash has a 30% shooting week. Getting Nash would be a good move for the Knicks, but if you do it, you've got to move Lin and just rely on Shumpert as the backup.
 
2012-05-10 03:28:45 PM

jayhawk88: I don't know, can you see anyone willing to take on his contract, regardless of what else they might get?


I dunno, but with the Shumpert injury it goes from improbable to impossible.
 
2012-05-10 03:56:56 PM

MugzyBrown: 10 games:

23.8ppg
9.4 Assist
5.9 Turns
49.7% shooting

Last 15 games:

14.5 ppg
6.5 assist
3.9 Turns
39.3% shooting


He's not that good.


You forgot:

He had 1.7 steals per game in those last 15, good for 4th among all PGs.
He had 3.6 rebounds per game in those last 15, good for 9th among all PGs.
14.5 points per game in those last 15 is good for 12th among all PGs.

If he's "not that good", neither are over half the PGs in the league.
 
2012-05-10 04:02:34 PM

MugzyBrown: FreakinB: If you factor in some maturing they work fine for me.

So you're ok with 40th in the league amongst guards in assist/turnover & 54th amongst guards in shooting %?


He's not going to be a career 40% shooter. His average for the entire season last year was 44% and he shot 44% or better his last 3 years at Harvard. So with extended time I'm pretty confident that he will be well above 40%.

As for assist/turnover, that's not a particularly important stat if you contribute across the board, which he does.
 
2012-05-10 04:13:05 PM
I feel I should mention that having an all-star caliber PG is completely unnecessary when it comes to winning a championship in the NBA. The last PG who was an all-star the same year he won a championship was Tony Parker in 2007. Before that you have to go all the way back to Isaiah Thomas in 1990.

You could argue that you need a guard who has the potential to be an all-star at least once in his career or who is a past his prime all-star and the numbers would get much larger, but even then Derek Fisher and Ron Harper both have multiple rings.
 
2012-05-10 04:58:02 PM

FreakinB: jayhawk88: Actually Lin might be one piece that they could and should move.

- Won't trade Melo
- Can't trade Amare if you paid another team to take him
- You probably don't want to trade Chandler/Fields/Novak
- JR Smith/Baron/Shumpert/AndTheRest = lol

The Knicks need to bottom out. Melo/Amare isn't going to work out, you might as well cut Amare and trade Melo for whatever you can get, see how good of a back court you really have in Lin/Fields/Novak/Shumpert next year, and hope the ping pong balls bounce your way for Cody Zeller or Nerlens Noel or whomever ends up being the stud big man of 2013.

But they're not going to do that because they're the New York Knicks and they have all this "history of winning" and they always have to be in contention and they'll spend the next 3-4 years being the #7 or #8 seed and getting bounced in the first round.

Are you serious? I know the Knicks aren't exactly a championship contender, but they're not close to bottoming out either. Say what you will about 'Melo but you can't move him in a sack of magic beans trade and expect people to be ok with that. And like you said, Lin is an intriguing piece that can make this work better. Plus he's too popular. Short of willingly getting bent over in a trade, I don't see how they can bottom out.


no I think you misunderstood they are topped out. This team does not get better next year. 7th 8th seed tops.
 
2012-05-10 04:58:07 PM

jayhawk88: elguerodiablo: I think a Nash / Lin combo would be ideal. Lin could learn a lot from Nash for a year or two and absorb some playing time to keep Nash fresh for the playoffs.

See I think this would be a bad idea. We saw enough of Lin last year that I think you can mark him down for at least a decent NBA PG, and I'm sure he thinks that at least. He's not going to want to ride the pine again, and the fans aren't going to like it either first time Nash has a 30% shooting week. Getting Nash would be a good move for the Knicks, but if you do it, you've got to move Lin and just rely on Shumpert as the backup.


When does Nash ever have a 30% shooting week? He's one of the best shooting guards in the history of the NBA.

And there is no way that Shumpert should be the back-up PG for any team that wants to make it through the playoffs. He was one of the worst PGs in the league before Lin broke out and they figured out that Shumpert could be an asset at off-guard.
 
2012-05-10 05:00:34 PM
In fact, let's map this out since 1990:

Starting PG of NBA Champion

2011 - Jason Kidd (1 year after last all-star)
2010 - Derek Fisher (never)
2009 - Derek Fisher (never)
2008 - Rajon Rondo (all star in 2 years)
2007 - Tony Parker (all star)
2006 - Gary Payton (3 years after last all-star)
2005 - Tony Parker (all star in 1 year)
2004 - Chauncey Billups (all star in 2 years)
2003 - Tony Parker (all star in 3 years)
2002 - Derek Fisher (never)
2001 - Derek Fisher (never)
2000 - Ron Harper (never)
1999 - Avery Johnson (never)
1998 - Ron Harper (never)
1997 - Ron Harper (never)
1996 - Ron Harper (never)
1995 - Kenny Smith (never)
1994 - Kenny Smith (never)
1993 - BJ Armstrong (1 yr from all-star)
1992 - BJ Armstrong (2 yr from all-star)
1991 - BJ Armstrong (3 yr from all-star)
1990 - Isaiah Thomas (all-star)

11 out of 22 champions had a PG that would be an all-star at some point (50%)
7 out of 22 champions had a PG that would be an all-star later in their career (32%)
4 out of 22 champions had a PG that was an all-star that year or had been previously (18%)

BJ Armstrong was an all-star only one year, so if you look at just PGs who were multi-year all-stars:
8 out of 22 champions had a PG that at some point would be an all-star multiple times (36%)
 
2012-05-10 05:07:35 PM

roncofooddehydrator: I feel I should mention that having an all-star caliber PG is completely unnecessary when it comes to winning a championship in the NBA. The last PG who was an all-star the same year he won a championship was Tony Parker in 2007. Before that you have to go all the way back to Isaiah Thomas in 1990.

You could argue that you need a guard who has the potential to be an all-star at least once in his career or who is a past his prime all-star and the numbers would get much larger, but even then Derek Fisher and Ron Harper both have multiple rings.


But over the last decade, teams that have won the championship have had as their primary ball-handler Tony Parker, Chauncy Billups, Dwayne Wade, Rondo, Kidd's decaying body and the LA poo poo platter (and possibly Westbrook/Lebron or Parker again this year). So other than the Lakers (and Avery Johnson who knew to give the ball to TD/Robinson) you have to go back to Jordan's Bulls to find a team that won the championship which didn't have a very good primary ball-handler (and when push came to shove, Jordan/Pippen were the main creators on those Bulls teams).

Carmelo isn't Lebron. He can't/doesn't create, that's why the Knicks need a decent PG. When they had decent PG play they were a very successful team this year.

/Poor Amare's knees
 
2012-05-10 05:10:33 PM

roncofooddehydrator: In fact, let's map this out since 1990:

Starting PG of NBA Champion

2011 - Jason Kidd (1 year after last all-star)
2010 - Derek Fisher (never)
2009 - Derek Fisher (never)
2008 - Rajon Rondo (all star in 2 years)
2007 - Tony Parker (all star)
2006 - Gary Payton (3 years after last all-star)
2005 - Tony Parker (all star in 1 year)
2004 - Chauncey Billups (all star in 2 years)
2003 - Tony Parker (all star in 3 years)
2002 - Derek Fisher (never)
2001 - Derek Fisher (never)
2000 - Ron Harper (never)
1999 - Avery Johnson (never)
1998 - Ron Harper (never)
1997 - Ron Harper (never)
1996 - Ron Harper (never)
1995 - Kenny Smith (never)
1994 - Kenny Smith (never)
1993 - BJ Armstrong (1 yr from all-star)
1992 - BJ Armstrong (2 yr from all-star)
1991 - BJ Armstrong (3 yr from all-star)
1990 - Isaiah Thomas (all-star)

11 out of 22 champions had a PG that would be an all-star at some point (50%)
7 out of 22 champions had a PG that would be an all-star later in their career (32%)
4 out of 22 champions had a PG that was an all-star that year or had been previously (18%)

BJ Armstrong was an all-star only one year, so if you look at just PGs who were multi-year all-stars:
8 out of 22 champions had a PG that at some point would be an all-star multiple times (36%)


But as I say above, there is a difference between a PG and a primary ball-handler. You can't watch the 2006 NBA Finals and say that Gary Payton was primary ball-handler. He only played 22 MPG in the Finals.
 
2012-05-10 05:20:41 PM

Rozotorical: no I think you misunderstood they are topped out. This team does not get better next year. 7th 8th seed tops


Keep reading. Though I don't see them as a Finals contender, I disagree with the idea that a 7-seed is the best that a healthy version of this team can do.
 
2012-05-10 05:45:02 PM

Rozotorical: no I think you misunderstood they are topped out. This team does not get better next year. 7th 8th seed tops.


If they play to the level they were playing under Woodson for the full season (when they started giving a sh*t), then they're competing with the Bulls and Heat for the best record in the conference.

If they just remain healthy next year, they will undoubtedly be higher than the 7th seed. If they get Nash, there's no reason they should be lower than the 3 seed.
 
2012-05-10 05:51:23 PM

FreakinB: Rozotorical: no I think you misunderstood they are topped out. This team does not get better next year. 7th 8th seed tops

Keep reading. Though I don't see them as a Finals contender, I disagree with the idea that a 7-seed is the best that a healthy version of this team can do.


No really 7th or 8th. The conference will be sending 10 teams as good or better then the Knicks. I see them competing and missing the playoffs. Healthy Amare is a pipe dream. Unless the trade for a defensive big, two shooters a back up pg, an athletic 3. They are not better then any one of the teams higher then them. In the league they are 16th-17th best this year, next they would have to improve to still be 16-17th best.
 
2012-05-10 05:53:21 PM

IAmRight: Rozotorical: no I think you misunderstood they are topped out. This team does not get better next year. 7th 8th seed tops.

If they play to the level they were playing under Woodson for the full season (when they started giving a sh*t), then they're competing with the Bulls and Heat for the best record in the conference.

If they just remain healthy next year, they will undoubtedly be higher than the 7th seed. If they get Nash, there's no reason they should be lower than the 3 seed.


Well if they pick up nash that is different story I am just talking about how this team is built this year. But I honestly not sure that will happen. I think the Bucks, Cavs and Raptors are all playoff teams next year. Not touching Orlando cause who knows what will happen with that drama.
 
2012-05-10 06:01:47 PM

Rozotorical: IAmRight: Rozotorical: no I think you misunderstood they are topped out. This team does not get better next year. 7th 8th seed tops.

If they play to the level they were playing under Woodson for the full season (when they started giving a sh*t), then they're competing with the Bulls and Heat for the best record in the conference.

If they just remain healthy next year, they will undoubtedly be higher than the 7th seed. If they get Nash, there's no reason they should be lower than the 3 seed.

Well if they pick up nash that is different story I am just talking about how this team is built this year. But I honestly not sure that will happen. I think the Bucks, Cavs and Raptors are all playoff teams next year. Not touching Orlando cause who knows what will happen with that drama.


This current Knicks team is a hell of a lot better than any of those teams will be next year, barring, say, the Bucks from getting a No. 1 pick.

They finished the season 36-30 after starting off 8-15. And that was with Lin starting, then injured. That was with Melo injured, then starting. That was with them quitting on the first coach.

If you're picking some sorry-ass team like the Raptors or Cavs ahead of them, you're friggin' nuts.
 
2012-05-10 06:29:40 PM

IAmRight: Rozotorical: IAmRight: Rozotorical: no I think you misunderstood they are topped out. This team does not get better next year. 7th 8th seed tops.

If they play to the level they were playing under Woodson for the full season (when they started giving a sh*t), then they're competing with the Bulls and Heat for the best record in the conference.

If they just remain healthy next year, they will undoubtedly be higher than the 7th seed. If they get Nash, there's no reason they should be lower than the 3 seed.

Well if they pick up nash that is different story I am just talking about how this team is built this year. But I honestly not sure that will happen. I think the Bucks, Cavs and Raptors are all playoff teams next year. Not touching Orlando cause who knows what will happen with that drama.

This current Knicks team is a hell of a lot better than any of those teams will be next year, barring, say, the Bucks from getting a No. 1 pick.

They finished the season 36-30 after starting off 8-15. And that was with Lin starting, then injured. That was with Melo injured, then starting. That was with them quitting on the first coach.

If you're picking some sorry-ass team like the Raptors or Cavs ahead of them, you're friggin' nuts.


I am nuts. But they will be.
 
2012-05-10 08:04:49 PM

Moopy Mac: But as I say above, there is a difference between a PG and a primary ball-handler. You can't watch the 2006 NBA Finals and say that Gary Payton was primary ball-handler. He only played 22 MPG in the Finals.


Right, I'm just saying you don't need an all-star PG to win a championship. You just need someone serviceable, which Lin is more than enough.
 
2012-05-11 07:46:20 PM

jayhawk88: s that a team that is going to seriously contend for an ECF? Maybe if they take Jeanie Buss hostage and get Phil in there to work his Zen Magic, but I'd argue that aside from Chicago and Miami, both Indy and Philly are still better, as built, than the Knicks. Maybe Atlanta depending on how you feel about them.


This part is a joke right? Philly is thoroughly mediocore. Despite catching magic at the start of the season (while the Knicks were awful) they still won less games than the Knicks when all was said and done. I wouldn't be surprised if Philly misses the playoffs next year.
 
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