Because this guys isn't running the country?

Just fyi to if anyone here is on pills for chronic pain and are in Colorado, go get a card and find a dispensary that sells anything on this page:
Link

It is seriously awesome stuff for pain relief and it doesn't have an intoxicating effect at all.

Chronic back pain and knee pain and hernias from lugging around all that extra gunt?

Quasar: Because we have money?

This. Maybe in other countries where they think healthcare is "free" they expect delays, lines, and pain. In America we expect treatment when we want it and we expect to treat pain, and yes we pay top dollar for it. After that we continue to treat our bodies like shiat, but that's our choice. Don't like it? fark you. Smoke Carlton's. Mother Theressa was a coont. Pain does not bring you closer to god. Treat it. Quit being a cheapskate. Work a few more hours per week, don't spend 25% of the year on vacation, don't feel entitled to quit working at age 60, and just maybe Europeans and others can afford to treat pain too.

ChaoticLimbs: Same reason why we eat all of the food.

Because we buy them.

People who can't buy painkillers can't ingest them. We can buy them, so we get to ingest them. Doesn't mean we deserve it more, it just means that we have the ability. If you were in a wheelchair, would you think those kids down the road playing soccer are doing so maliciously? No, they're just more fortunate and are going to enjoy it. They can't help your legs, though they do try to include you. It's just that while they have this tremendous gift, that gift isn't large enough to drag you up close to their level without dragging them down to yours. Asking for a leg up is great, asking someone to trade places with you isn't.

Let me guess - you're a 19 year old libertarian?

You should be wanting to reduce or fix suffering in the world, rather than looking down your nose at it.

Big_Fat_Liar: Quasar: Because we have money?

This. Maybe in other countries where they think healthcare is "free" they expect delays, lines, and pain. In America we expect treatment when we want it and we expect to treat pain, and yes we pay top dollar for it. After that we continue to treat our bodies like shiat, but that's our choice. Don't like it? fark you. Smoke Carlton's. Mother Theressa was a coont. Pain does not bring you closer to god. Treat it. Quit being a cheapskate. Work a few more hours per week, don't spend 25% of the year on vacation, don't feel entitled to quit working at age 60, and just maybe Europeans and others can afford to treat pain too.

-3/10. I think it was the "Mother Theresa" remark. Some trolls, you can actually feature them pulling clichès off of a shelf.

jjwars1: All the drugs I've mentioned are opiate based including the semi-synthetic opiates. What you are talking about is a fully synthetic drug which is not nearly as effective as opiate based painkillers. They are a different class. Anyways, I'm not sure how we got on this topic.

I thought you were replying to my comment saying "there's a reason we invaded Afghanistan...." The US consumes 80% of the world's opiate supply which includes all opiate based painki ...

Oh jeez don't tell me you're one of those people who think "all natural" automatically makes things better. Just because a drug is "fully synthetic" doesn't automatically make it less effective. Chemicals from plants go through a synthesis process just the same as chemicals in a lab.

The effectiveness of a drug isn't due to if it came from plants or a lab. It varies from drug to drug and person to person...genetics and the structure of the receptors in their brain and complex neurochemical processes.

torusXL: ChaoticLimbs: Same reason why we eat all of the food.

Because we buy them.

People who can't buy painkillers can't ingest them. We can buy them, so we get to ingest them. Doesn't mean we deserve it more, it just means that we have the ability. If you were in a wheelchair, would you think those kids down the road playing soccer are doing so maliciously? No, they're just more fortunate and are going to enjoy it. They can't help your legs, though they do try to include you. It's just that while they have this tremendous gift, that gift isn't large enough to drag you up close to their level without dragging them down to yours. Asking for a leg up is great, asking someone to trade places with you isn't.

Let me guess - you're a 19 year old libertarian?

You should be wanting to reduce or fix suffering in the world, rather than looking down your nose at it.

But.. but, if somebody else is worse off than me, they are teh failzor, and that means I am teh win!1 I have validated my self importance without so much as scratching my own ass! USA ! USA!

I don't understand how anyone could have fun using opiates recreationally. Those things turn me into a farking zombie and not in a good way. Give me my hash oil vapor pen & I'm good.

Maybe the US does a better job of managing pain than anyone else.

What the hell do they do in the rest of the world for pain control?

Still no cure for cancer.

torusXL: jjwars1: All the drugs I've mentioned are opiate based including the semi-synthetic opiates. What you are talking about is a fully synthetic drug which is not nearly as effective as opiate based painkillers. They are a different class. Anyways, I'm not sure how we got on this topic.

I thought you were replying to my comment saying "there's a reason we invaded Afghanistan...." The US consumes 80% of the world's opiate supply which includes all opiate based painki ...

Oh jeez don't tell me you're one of those people who think "all natural" automatically makes things better. Just because a drug is "fully synthetic" doesn't automatically make it less effective. Chemicals from plants go through a synthesis process just the same as chemicals in a lab.

The effectiveness of a drug isn't due to if it came from plants or a lab. It varies from drug to drug and person to person...genetics and the structure of the receptors in their brain and complex neurochemical processes.

Yeah, I love that whole "all natural organic" hype. Wanna know a secret? ALL lettuce is organic. Everything on earth started out as dirt or water or what grows in it.

And because of many of the reasons listed, terminally ill patients are undermedicated because doctor's are afraid to prescribe.

Pill addicts make it almost impossible for people who are in true pain to obtain the medications they need. It really gets my blood boiling...

Do you know what it's like to plead with a doctor for more morphine for your patient who has severe osteonecrosis due to bone cancer? The doctor is afraid of turning the patient into "an addict".

/getting my doctorate so I can prescribe for the terminally ill myself, goddamnit.

I have elderly relatives hooked on morphine patches and popping oxy's like it's farking going out of style. All of this bullshiat could be eliminated by ingesting a THC tincture or vaporizing. Elderly family members hooked on legalized heroin is pretty cool....NOT.

cretinbob: I can't get any for my intractable back pain because of all the asshole douchebags who abuse them.

I was in the ER once with a migraine and the pain meds in the IV wore off [I metabolize drugs and alcohol really fast] and the doctor would not give me any painkillers that were opiate based because people get addicted. For fark's sake this crap barely works on me, why would I abuse it?

I was started on darvocet at some point and it did nothing at all. They had to keep trying stuff. So glad that is done with. I'm still mad I can't get some stuff to keep in my house in case I get a migraine which happens every once in awhile.

ISpeakBlob: Pill addicts make it almost impossible for people who are in true pain to obtain the medications they need. It really gets my blood boiling...
/getting my doctorate so I can prescribe for the terminally ill myself, goddamnit.

Good for you wanting to prescribe to the terminally ill.

However I disagree that it's the pill addict's fault. They're not the ones taking the actual action which results in the taboo against pain killers. In fact, many of them are probably self medicating for mental illness, chronic pain, etc, but they don't have the money to have health insurance and get prescriptions. Many probably addicted to these pills precisely because there is something not right in their body and opiates are the only way the can feel normal and stave off the constant suffering.

It's the insane wackos who have no understanding of science and have decided out of their fear that the best solution is "WAAARGARBL MAKE IT ILLEGAL". It's sad because there are infinity solutions aside from that one, but now that everything is so illegal, all those infinity solutions are blocked off.

For example, what if pain killers were not taboo and there were clinics all over the world where anyone, even without a prescription, could go chill in a comfortable room and take painkillers while being monitored. Yeah it would be expensive to have these clinics all over the world, but there's no lack of money in Western countries.

Besides which, isn't the reduction of inevitable human suffering priceless? We should be waging the War on Suffering not the War Against Sufferers.

bunner: jjwars1: I know. That was sent from my iPhone. It can be difficult to type on a 3" surface with arthritic thumbs.

Perhaps you need a sh*tstack of painkillers! Ask your doctor if you should be taking Heroin™. : )

I used to, but now I'm on heroine. It makes me all weak in the knees, and then I roll over and sleep like a rock.

SandMann: Maybe the US does a better job of managing pain than anyone else.
What the hell do they do in the rest of the world for pain control?
Still no cure for cancer.

I wonder what poor people in the U.S. do for pain control, since they can't afford to go to the doctor and pay for expensive drugs?

Americans are a miserable farking bunch and we take drugs to forget about it. But keep telling yourself that we're the greatest country EVAR, USA USA USA!

bunner: Big_Fat_Liar: Quasar: Because we have money?

This. Maybe in other countries where they think healthcare is "free" they expect delays, lines, and pain. In America we expect treatment when we want it and we expect to treat pain, and yes we pay top dollar for it. After that we continue to treat our bodies like shiat, but that's our choice. Don't like it? fark you. Smoke Carlton's. Mother Theressa was a coont. Pain does not bring you closer to god. Treat it. Quit being a cheapskate. Work a few more hours per week, don't spend 25% of the year on vacation, don't feel entitled to quit working at age 60, and just maybe Europeans and others can afford to treat pain too.

-3/10. I think it was the "Mother Theresa" remark. Some trolls, you can actually feature them pulling clichès off of a shelf.

"Pain and suffering have come into your life, but remember pain, sorrow, suffering are but the kiss of Jesus - a sign that you have come so close to Him that He can kiss you."

Not a troll. You just don't know jack about the real Mother. Not your fault - we spent 20 years hearing "news" programs talking about how wonderful she was. That was when she was alive. They aren't aren't about to run retractions now that she's dead. Mother Theressa. didn't treat for pain, or much of anything else , and she was a bit of a shiatbag. No contraception, abortion, or pain treatment for others, but she used the Woodlands Clinic and Birla Heart Institute for her ailments (and all her abortions:) while those under her care were allowed to let suffer in order to bring them closer to Jebus. She spent the money she received on nunneries n' shiat, not in helping the suffering. She did that because suffering brought people closer to god. Other people, but not herself.

No trollin

Rasraf Mekerk: This is why I don't prescribe narcotic pain meds. If your pain is that bad then you need to see a pain specialist.

No, the reason you're foisting the prescribing of narcotic pain medication onto someone else is that the DEA is up your ass.

Doctors under-prescribing pain medication is as much a problem as pain killer abuse.

Thing is, Doc, some of us are mature grown-ups who don't want to be addicted to (or dependent on) pain killers. We've seen what it does to others, and we want to lead productive and clear-headed lives.

But sometimes we do legitimately need pain medication so we don't spend our recovery time curled up in a corner weeping from blinding pain because our doctor dismissively said, "Oh, just take a couple of Tylenol; you'll be fine,"

Seriously, you're going to send patients to spend more goddamned money on a "pain specialist" who is likely to say the same thing?

Your Company's Computer Guy: SharkTrager: AbbeySomeone: Rasraf Mekerk: This is why I don't prescribe narcotic pain meds. If your pain is that bad then you need to see a pain specialist.

/doctor

Physicians like you are the reason so many of us see alternative practitioners, and get better.

Because he's responsible and doesn't simply hand out scripts like he was working the counter at McDonalds?

He's not the kind of doctor that is the problem.

He is when you are in unbelievable pain and all the pain docs want to do is stick needles in you.

So, sending someone to a specialist for the condition makes someone a bad doctor.

You just want him handing out Oxys like tic tacs?

Braindeath: I was in the ER once with a migraine and the pain meds in the IV wore off [I metabolize drugs and alcohol really fast] and the doctor would not give me any painkillers that were opiate based because people get addicted. For fark's sake this crap barely works on me, why would I abuse it?.

He probably just said that because he was too busy with other people who were dying in the ER and needed immediate help and didn't have time to explain.

An opiate would just treat the pain symptom of migraines but do nothing for the migraine. It's not known for sure, but most likely migraines are due to dilation of blood vessels in the head which leads to inflammation of nerves and therefore pain. Opiates might block that pain, but it's doing nothing to stop the migraine.

The doctor was being nice by giving you the opiates so that you could have pain relief. However the migraine would just have to run its course. Did he prescribe a triptan to abort the migraine or some other kind of serotonin agonist? I'm curious why he didn't do that instead, because serotonin agonists are well known to stop migraines.

(Fun fact: The War on Drugs also removes our ability to abort migraines with things like LSD and 'shrooms. Yes, those will stop migraines in their tracks. Also - be glad you don't have cluster headaches, aka suicide headaches)

Big_Fat_Liar: No trollin

That website, with all due consideration, looks a bit low on veracity. Maybe she pimped 6 year olds to cartels. I dunno, but I sort of doubt it.

torusXL: jjwars1: All the drugs I've mentioned are opiate based including the semi-synthetic opiates. What you are talking about is a fully synthetic drug which is not nearly as effective as opiate based painkillers. They are a different class. Anyways, I'm not sure how we got on this topic.

I thought you were replying to my comment saying "there's a reason we invaded Afghanistan...." The US consumes 80% of the world's opiate supply which includes all opiate based painki ...

Oh jeez don't tell me you're one of those people who think "all natural" automatically makes things better. Just because a drug is "fully synthetic" doesn't automatically make it less effective. Chemicals from plants go through a synthesis process just the same as chemicals in a lab.

The effectiveness of a drug isn't due to if it came from plants or a lab. It varies from drug to drug and person to person...genetics and the structure of the receptors in their brain and complex neurochemical processes.

No, I'm not one of those people. I know from research and experience that opiate based painkillers work better for most people. This is widely known. I am not, however, advocating the use of these painkillers. They are over-prescribed, should only be used for major/legitimate medical conditions, and if possible should only be used very, very short term. People with chronic conditions should seek as many alternatives as possible before jumping on the Vicodin wagon. Physical addiction is inevitable for anyone using this class of painkiller long enough, and that leads to more health problems which then leads to more pills which leads to more symptoms which leads to more pills...

Lernaeus: Rasraf Mekerk: This is why I don't prescribe narcotic pain meds. If your pain is that bad then you need to see a pain specialist.

No, the reason you're foisting the prescribing of narcotic pain medication onto someone else is that the DEA is up your ass.

Doctors under-prescribing pain medication is as much a problem as pain killer abuse.

Thing is, Doc, some of us are mature grown-ups who don't want to be addicted to (or dependent on) pain killers. We've seen what it does to others, and we want to lead productive and clear-headed lives.

But sometimes we do legitimately need pain medication so we don't spend our recovery time curled up in a corner weeping from blinding pain because our doctor dismissively said, "Oh, just take a couple of Tylenol; you'll be fine,"

Seriously, you're going to send patients to spend more goddamned money on a "pain specialist" who is likely to say the same thing?

It's about time we elect a man or woman of the people who will stand up to the DEA and put them in their place. (the unemployment line is the preferred location)

ajgeek: I really wanted to be wrong on this.

Take a number.

Big_Fat_Liar: It's about time we elect a man or woman of the people who will stand up to the DEA and put them in their place. (the unemployment line is the preferred location)

You'll have to get through all the hysterical soccer moms and raging Red Forman dads first.

Why do Americans consume 80% of the worlds painkillers?

NSFW

bunner: torusXL: jjwars1: All the drugs I've mentioned are opiate based including the semi-synthetic opiates. What you are talking about is a fully synthetic drug which is not nearly as effective as opiate based painkillers. They are a different class. Anyways, I'm not sure how we got on this topic.

I thought you were replying to my comment saying "there's a reason we invaded Afghanistan...." The US consumes 80% of the world's opiate supply which includes all opiate based painki ...

Oh jeez don't tell me you're one of those people who think "all natural" automatically makes things better. Just because a drug is "fully synthetic" doesn't automatically make it less effective. Chemicals from plants go through a synthesis process just the same as chemicals in a lab.

The effectiveness of a drug isn't due to if it came from plants or a lab. It varies from drug to drug and person to person...genetics and the structure of the receptors in their brain and complex neurochemical processes.

Yeah, I love that whole "all natural organic" hype. Wanna know a secret? ALL lettuce is organic. Everything on earth started out as dirt or water or what grows in it.

Yes, organic is a marketing buzz word. It also refers to a more environmentally friendly way of producing products we consume, or a more natural way of producing them. It has nothing to do with my opinion.

bunner: Big_Fat_Liar: No trollin

That website, with all due consideration, looks a bit low on veracity. Maybe she pimped 6 year olds to cartels. I dunno, but I sort of doubt it.

Is that your way of saying you might be mistaken? I understand, I'm like that too, at first.

from a missionary position worker that worked with her

Dude, I'm just never gonna have a huge bug up my ass about Mother Theresa. Chick is toast, yo. She must have done SOMETHING useful at some point. Can't say that about Dick Fuld or the Koch brothers.

jjwars1: Yes, organic is a marketing buzz word. It also refers to a more environmentally friendly way of producing products we consume, or a more natural way of producing them. It has nothing to do with my opinion.

That sounds great to me.

I was only referring to the anti-science crazies who think that a chemical has some mystical quality if it came from a plant as opposed to a lab synthesis (some people even think that if the same exact chemical came from a lab instead of a plant that the plant "version" is better. Even if it's the SAME FUGGIN THING)

There are definitely plants that make very useful chemicals. And maybe some plants make them more easily than we know how to. I'm not on one side of the issue or the other about organics, I just wish people would drop ideologies and look at reality (btw not saying that you're not). Is that so much to ask?

torusXL: Braindeath: I was in the ER once with a migraine and the pain meds in the IV wore off [I metabolize drugs and alcohol really fast] and the doctor would not give me any painkillers that were opiate based because people get addicted. For fark's sake this crap barely works on me, why would I abuse it?.

He probably just said that because he was too busy with other people who were dying in the ER and needed immediate help and didn't have time to explain.

An opiate would just treat the pain symptom of migraines but do nothing for the migraine. It's not known for sure, but most likely migraines are due to dilation of blood vessels in the head which leads to inflammation of nerves and therefore pain. Opiates might block that pain, but it's doing nothing to stop the migraine.

The doctor was being nice by giving you the opiates so that you could have pain relief. However the migraine would just have to run its course. Did he prescribe a triptan to abort the migraine or some other kind of serotonin agonist? I'm curious why he didn't do that instead, because serotonin agonists are well known to stop migraines.

(Fun fact: The War on Drugs also removes our ability to abort migraines with things like LSD and 'shrooms. Yes, those will stop migraines in their tracks. Also - be glad you don't have cluster headaches, aka suicide headaches)

May have to address that one with the doc next time I go in...I get hormonal/weather migraines and they can put me down for 48+ hrs if they're strong enough. (the remnants of Hurricane Rita blowing through sucked a big one and nearly made it four days)

I've got a radical idea, lets control drugs based on proven harm to the user (and society):

1. Alcohol
2. Meth
3. Heroin
4. Cocaine
...
99999999. Marijuana

Corporate Self: I've got a radical idea, lets control drugs based on proven harm to the user (and society):

1. Alcohol
2. Meth
3. Heroin
4. Cocaine
...
99999999. Marijuana

NO. THAT ONE TIME THAT A DEATH WAS ASSOCIATED WITH MARIJUANA IS LIKE 11TY BILLION TIMES WORSE THAN THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DEATHS DIRECTLY CAUSED BY ALCOHOL. SO JUST fark YOU MAN WE'RE GONNA RAID YOUR HOUSE AND RUIN LIFE NOW, K?

Sounds like I need to buy stocks in the company that makes Zohydro, sounds like it will be a gold mine based on all the opiate addicts that will be desperate to get it.

cryinoutloud: SandMann: Maybe the US does a better job of managing pain than anyone else.
What the hell do they do in the rest of the world for pain control?
Still no cure for cancer.

I wonder what poor people in the U.S. do for pain control, since they can't afford to go to the doctor and pay for expensive drugs?

Americans are a miserable farking bunch and we take drugs to forget about it. But keep telling yourself that we're the greatest country EVAR, USA USA USA!

Methadone for long term pain control is very cheap. There are other drugs as well. Instead of parroting agitprop maybe you should go volunteer with a hospice or something.

Do you know one of the treatments for painkiller addiction is Suboxone? Do you know what the treatment for Suboxone addiction is? 3 months of hell.

tonguedepressor: Do you know one of the treatments for painkiller addiction is Suboxone? Do you know what the treatment for Suboxone addiction is? 3 months of hell.

Who knows, what if it's possible to have something with similar effects but not the 3 months of hell?

"We're not talking here about recreational euphoriants, which simply activate the negative feedback mechanisms of the brain; nor the shallow, opiated contentment of a Brave New World; nor drugs that induce euphoric mania, with its uncontrolled excitement, loss of critical insight, grandiosity and flight of ideas. Can we develop true wonderdrugs that deliver sublime well-being on a sustainable basis, recalibrating the hedonic treadmill to ensure a high quality of life for everyone?"

theMightyRegeya: Damn straight. Let's ban painkillers.

Come to that, I'm tired of paying taxes and premiums for cigarette smokers and alcoholics, too. Let's ban tobacco and alcohol while we're at it.

Nice strawman. Feel free to point out where I said any such thing or kindly STFU and go be stupid somewhere else.

Because we can, duh.

I run and at times I pop ibuprophen like candy. Last week I probably took 40. (I'm aware of the risks and probably won't have another for months or until my next hangover.)

Because liberals have made "manning up" a term of intolerance for pussies

violentsalvation:
You are right, we can't have an honest discussion in this country. There is too much money to be made.

Ironic really that Majiruana legalisation and it's subsequent explosion as a cash crop would net firm some serious money. Assuming it were taxed in a similar manner to alcohol & tabacco (using my native UK as an example) the government itself would rake in billions a year.

But... nope, can't do that. Although I can never wrap my head around the exact reason we can't... beyond "Drugs are bad mmm'kay" I mean.

Rasraf Mekerk: This is why I don't prescribe narcotic pain meds. If your pain is that bad then you need to see a pain specialist.

/doctor

We've got "pain specialists" out the wazoo writing for relatively normal and also elephant-killing doses of narcs around here. Some may be legit I can't fill any of those without wondering when DEA will show up and fark us over.

/pharmacist

Because in America, it's ok to be addicted to something as long as a campaign contributor gets paid in the process.

Opioids are not the standard of care for treatment of migraines. Go to a primary care doctor or a neurologist and get a prescription that will prevent you needing to go to the ER when you have a headache.