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(Atomic Scientists Bulletin)   NATO's imaginary ballistic missile system: Since NATO is treating the system as if it were a reality, Russia insists it will take out the system by force...except the missile system doesn't exist   (thebulletin.org) divider line 91
    More: Strange, intercontinental ballistic missiles, NATO, Russia, missile defense systems, Strategic Defense Initiative, NATO summit, interceptors, ballistic missiles  
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5102 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 May 2012 at 4:15 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-09 07:45:22 PM  
What will NATO do if Russia attacks the imaginary missle defense system with their imaginary Putinpantz Death-Ray-From-Space?!?!
 
2012-05-09 07:51:02 PM  
Would You Like To Play A Game?
 
2012-05-09 08:53:18 PM  
So, we'll announce a program to intercept their missiles designed to take out to our imaginary missile interceptors.
 
2012-05-09 11:43:47 PM  
You cannot deceive us by not being there!

/we will pound our shoe on the table once again
 
2012-05-10 12:23:33 AM  
So is Russia going to spend itself into oblivion again? This is turning into a Road Runner cartoon.
 
2012-05-10 01:25:18 AM  
Settle it with Paper, Rock, Scissors!
 
2012-05-10 02:32:18 AM  
What a waste of money and resources by both sides, with more to come... apparently.
 
2012-05-10 02:38:19 AM  
jaredinnakano.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-05-10 03:23:23 AM  
Of course it exists. Their source was the New York Times.
 
2012-05-10 04:26:03 AM  

omnibus_necanda_sunt:


Needs a Brazzers logo.
 
2012-05-10 04:26:37 AM  
The Military channel said this years ago. They even talked about how to defeat the laser based one by simply spinning the missile
 
2012-05-10 04:39:49 AM  
This is political theater. Nothing more.
 
2012-05-10 04:48:39 AM  
A missile defense system that doesn't work is a damn cry different than one that doesn't exist.

You have silos dug or sites cleared, that's a thing, even if they're empty silos and fields because you can't afford to make a missile worth installing.

Russia can easily bomb certain things there.
 
2012-05-10 04:50:36 AM  
huh?
 
2012-05-10 05:00:35 AM  

doglover: A missile defense system that doesn't work is a damn cry different than one that doesn't exist.

You have silos dug or sites cleared, that's a thing, even if they're empty silos and fields because you can't afford to make a missile worth installing.

Russia can easily bomb certain things there.


Well, it's not as inconceivable as the article states that an ICBM could be intercepted successfully. It makes a certain kind of political sense for Russia to oppose installing systems that don't work, so that they can still oppose systems that ~do~ work, later on when they are developed. Remember, unless there actually is a thermonuclear war, these systems won't be legitimately tested in a way that needs to be paid attention to.

/I did read a sci-fi book about a space laser shooting down missiles at the end of the cold war.
//Russia mission-killed it with their small fleet of combat capable shuttles as they invaded the middle-east.
 
2012-05-10 05:05:16 AM  
they sound bored.
 
2012-05-10 05:08:13 AM  

untaken_name: This is political theater. Nothing more.


The Russians need to knock it off, then. The Cold War is over, wankers. You lost, we won. We have absolutely no interest in obliterating your cities anymore; you do that well enough on your own. We'd turn Moscow into a glass parking lot, but considering it's little more than barren lots covered in broken glass, why bother?
 
2012-05-10 05:14:14 AM  

Marine1: untaken_name: This is political theater. Nothing more.

The Russians need to knock it off, then. The Cold War is over, wankers. You lost, we won. We have absolutely no interest in obliterating your cities anymore; you do that well enough on your own. We'd turn Moscow into a glass parking lot, but considering it's little more than barren lots covered in broken glass, why bother?


Russia is suffering from little country syndrome. They're largely irrelevant now and will only become more so with the rise of China and India/
 
2012-05-10 05:16:52 AM  

kg2095: Marine1: untaken_name: This is political theater. Nothing more.

The Russians need to knock it off, then. The Cold War is over, wankers. You lost, we won. We have absolutely no interest in obliterating your cities anymore; you do that well enough on your own. We'd turn Moscow into a glass parking lot, but considering it's little more than barren lots covered in broken glass, why bother?

Russia is suffering from little country syndrome. They're largely irrelevant now and will only become more so with the rise of China and India/


Sorry, they're an oil exporter. They get to be relevant.
 
2012-05-10 05:21:59 AM  
Even if the system did exist, it would be a defense system and not an attack system, so what's the problem? There are those who say that setting up a good defense is a prelude to making an offense. But that'd be like if I fortified my den against being broken into and my neighbor said "You're doing that because you plan to break into my house"
 
2012-05-10 05:27:36 AM  

drjekel_mrhyde: The Military channel said this years ago. They even talked about how to defeat the laser based one by simply spinning the missile


except for the fact that spinning the missile would be about as effective as the laughable "sliding bandage" defense, with the lasers the U.S. DoD wants developed the missiles destruction comes not from burn through but from plasma ejecta from the hit pushing the missile off course inducing gimballing and the subsequent G force destruction of the missile, yes those lasers are years in the future.
The anti missile batteries they are talking about here do exist, yes the missiles currently have about a 50% success rate but launch enough interceptors and your hit probability goes up 8-), useful against a limited strike, such as what Iran might be able to accomplish or against a rogue missile launch but little else. Russia knows this will not seriously degrade any major strike it could launch so they are posturing for concessions as always.
As for their threat to strike look up any objective discussion of their war with Georgia, Russia won but it strained their logistics to the breaking point, any attack on NATO would be disastrous for Russia and they know it, again more posturing.
All of this is politics as always, meant for internal consumption by their respective populations and "The Bulletin of Atomic Scientists" knows this but since the end of the cold war and the Soviet collapse they have been adrift and this offers them some glimmer of relativity so let them masturbate away...
 
2012-05-10 05:35:14 AM  

Marine1: untaken_name: This is political theater. Nothing more.

The Russians need to knock it off, then. The Cold War is over, wankers. You lost, we won. We have absolutely no interest in obliterating your cities anymore; you do that well enough on your own. We'd turn Moscow into a glass parking lot, but considering it's little more than barren lots covered in broken glass, why bother?


We won, did we? How many of the 10 items of the Bill of Rights do they practice in Russia today? Because we practice all 10 of the planks of the Communist Manifesto in America today. We are in worse financial trouble than Russia was in the 80s. Our media is controlled. Our citizens are being strip-searched in order to travel. Government agencies such as the DEA are completely above the law and unaccountable. Citizens can be "disappeared" with no trial. VIPR teams are conducting random searches on citybuses. We have to stop and present papers at "DUI" checkpoints. I dunno, I'm not so sure we won.
 
2012-05-10 06:03:20 AM  
Let's see...

The total number of missile interceptors they're planning on installing in Europe?

Ten. Maybe twelve, eventually.

Each of which can intercept one warhead.

The total number of missiles Russia has aimed at Europe?

At least 100, carrying over 300 warheads. (489 ICBMs in their current arsenal, carrying 1788 warheads - this does not count their submarine fleet or their air launched cruise missile arsenal).

So... Russia is prepared to go to war because there is a possibility of (on an impossibly lucky day) intercepting just over three percent of their incoming ICBM warheads.

Here's the kicker: the ABMs we're setting up in Europe are, due to location, better suited to intercepting missiles from the Middle East (Russia's ICBMs are mostly located in their northern regions, which means their trajectories will be too far north of the ABMs for easy intercept).

On the other hand, a possible Iranian ICBM threat would keep oil prices high, which is good for... Russia. If Iran ends up with a small handful of ICBMs, they have a credible threat against Europe - but they're on "good" terms with Russia.

Not to mention, of course, Russia's own existing ABM fleet (which is much larger than the one we want to install in Europe), and their huge "Surface to Air Missile" system, which, with slight modifications to their radar hardware, becomes an ABM system capable of intercepting shorter-ranged ballistic missiles...
 
2012-05-10 06:12:12 AM  
Well, at one point we built a life-sized balsa wood model of it. Which was very impressive, provided you were very careful not to lean against it.

/obscure?
 
2012-05-10 06:26:06 AM  

untaken_name: Marine1: untaken_name: This is political theater. Nothing more.

The Russians need to knock it off, then. The Cold War is over, wankers. You lost, we won. We have absolutely no interest in obliterating your cities anymore; you do that well enough on your own. We'd turn Moscow into a glass parking lot, but considering it's little more than barren lots covered in broken glass, why bother?

We won, did we? How many of the 10 items of the Bill of Rights do they practice in Russia today? Because we practice all 10 of the planks of the Communist Manifesto in America today. We are in worse financial trouble than Russia was in the 80s. Our media is controlled. Our citizens are being strip-searched in order to travel. Government agencies such as the DEA are completely above the law and unaccountable. Citizens can be "disappeared" with no trial. VIPR teams are conducting random searches on citybuses. We have to stop and present papers at "DUI" checkpoints. I dunno, I'm not so sure we won.


If you honestly think we're on the level of the Soviet Union, you're out of your mind. Yeah, we've got some things to deal with, but you're not going to go to jail for typing what you just did.
 
2012-05-10 06:26:22 AM  
Knock it off assholes, there are better things to spend money on than dick waving contests on both sides.
 
2012-05-10 06:35:01 AM  
Well, several questions come to mind that aren't covered so far:

First, if the NATO missile defense system is imaginary, will the Russian pre-emptive strike also be fantasy?

Second, if these things are true, are we only imagining the Daily Fail article? (I usually wish that were true....)

Third, is there a possibility you are imagining reading this post, or that I imagined writing it?

/"Military intelligence, there's a contradiction in terms."
 
2012-05-10 06:35:20 AM  
Fake missiles, in my country? It's more likely than you think!

snuff3r.com
 
2012-05-10 06:38:19 AM  

Marine1: If you honestly think we're on the level of the Soviet Union, you're out of your mind. Yeah, we've got some things to deal with, but you're not going to go to jail for typing what you just did.


And if I did, how would you know? Besides, if we're so non-imprisony, why do we imprison more people per capita than any other country in the world?
 
2012-05-10 06:40:41 AM  
Why don't we just put all these fat, doltish, pushy old men into a room and let them work out their imaginary governments while we go back to feeding babies and cleaning all the petrochemicals out of the water? Seriously. What have any of these wankers done for anybody lately?
 
2012-05-10 06:40:58 AM  

untaken_name: Marine1: If you honestly think we're on the level of the Soviet Union, you're out of your mind. Yeah, we've got some things to deal with, but you're not going to go to jail for typing what you just did.

And if I did, how would you know? Besides, if we're so non-imprisony, why do we imprison more people per capita than any other country in the world?


Probably because there's a lot of money in building prisons.
 
2012-05-10 06:43:06 AM  

bunner: Why don't we just put all these fat, doltish, pushy old men into a room and let them work out their imaginary governments while we go back to feeding babies and cleaning all the petrochemicals out of the water? Seriously. What have any of these wankers done for anybody lately?


Well, they're in the process of giving the bankers whatever they can, so there's that.
 
2012-05-10 06:44:15 AM  

miss diminutive: untaken_name: Marine1: If you honestly think we're on the level of the Soviet Union, you're out of your mind. Yeah, we've got some things to deal with, but you're not going to go to jail for typing what you just did.

And if I did, how would you know? Besides, if we're so non-imprisony, why do we imprison more people per capita than any other country in the world?

Probably because there's a lot of money in building prisons.


And staffing them and buying food for them and stocking them and installing electronics in them and telling taxpayers they are the only thin line between them and dope addled criminals running rampant in the streets. See? You CAN make money off of the poor.
 
2012-05-10 06:44:30 AM  
Putin JUST had an election in Russia, coinciding pretty closely with this statement. You know how a leader gets himself elected in that country? Have you ever SEEN some of Putin's commercials? This is an election year ploy to talk tough and "stick it" to the Americans, that is it. The Russians would have full knowledge that the system is not meant for their weapons based solely upon where/how the missile sites are located and arrayed geographically. Because you need to catch missiles in their boost (or launch phase) you have to place your missiles in locations that can reach the ascending ICBM.

The system itself is entirely in the wrong place geographically to be used against a Russian strike. You don't invest billions in a missile defense systems that can only defend against a fraction of your enemies deterrent.

Plus, the amount of interceptor missiles themselves make the idea of using them against Russia absolutely absurd. Russia or the US is not going to launch a limited nuclear strike. The entire reason why MAD works is because the consequences for any one launch are too horrific to risk. If the US got extremely lucky we could at best knock down 10-12 missiles (with a 50% success rate divide that by half). Russia would launch upwards of 300, and most of those wouldn't even be reachable in the first place.
 
2012-05-10 06:53:33 AM  

untaken_name: Marine1: If you honestly think we're on the level of the Soviet Union, you're out of your mind. Yeah, we've got some things to deal with, but you're not going to go to jail for typing what you just did.

And if I did, how would you know? Besides, if we're so non-imprisony, why do we imprison more people per capita than any other country in the world?


Well, I could look to see if you had continued posting on Fark.

People have said worse things about the government here and they aren't in prison.

And the second thing: a combination of a good police system and a few laws we don't need (namely drug laws). Still doesn't change what people are being sent to prison for... it's not for speaking out against the government.
 
2012-05-10 07:00:02 AM  

Marine1: untaken_name: Marine1: If you honestly think we're on the level of the Soviet Union, you're out of your mind. Yeah, we've got some things to deal with, but you're not going to go to jail for typing what you just did.

And if I did, how would you know? Besides, if we're so non-imprisony, why do we imprison more people per capita than any other country in the world?

Well, I could look to see if you had continued posting on Fark.

People have said worse things about the government here and they aren't in prison.

And the second thing: a combination of a good police system and a few laws we don't need (namely drug laws). Still doesn't change what people are being sent to prison for... it's not for speaking out against the government.


Uh, ok. Keep telling yourself that, if it helps you sleep. Who cares if we're ruining peoples' lives for no reason, as long as we aren't doing it because they don't like the government! Well, except for all those people locked up for protesting...

Link
Link
Link
Link
Link
Link

Nah, that doesn't happen here. What am I thinking?
 
2012-05-10 07:13:44 AM  
Pooty-Poot willed it out of existence with his mental superpowers? Maybe just by flexing?
 
2012-05-10 07:23:12 AM  
Maybe the missile defense system is only a disguise for a network of attacking missiles with nuclear warheads and all, and the Russians know it.
 
2012-05-10 07:33:36 AM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Even if the system did exist, it would be a defense system and not an attack system, so what's the problem? There are those who say that setting up a good defense is a prelude to making an offense. But that'd be like if I fortified my den against being broken into and my neighbor said "You're doing that because you plan to break into my house"


What has kept the nuclear option off the table all these years is the concept of mutually assured destruction. If we create a system that will prevent retribution if we fire are weapons it means we can now use them offensively instead of defensively. That is why a system like this bothers other countries.
 
2012-05-10 07:36:16 AM  

untaken_name: Because we practice all 10 of the planks of the Communist Manifesto in America today.


This is simply a retarded statement.
 
2012-05-10 07:37:52 AM  

manimal2878: untaken_name: Because we practice all 10 of the planks of the Communist Manifesto in America today.

This is simply a retarded statement.


Name one we don't practice, then. Pick whichever you like.
 
2012-05-10 07:44:27 AM  

untaken_name: Marine1: untaken_name: This is political theater. Nothing more.

The Russians need to knock it off, then. The Cold War is over, wankers. You lost, we won. We have absolutely no interest in obliterating your cities anymore; you do that well enough on your own. We'd turn Moscow into a glass parking lot, but considering it's little more than barren lots covered in broken glass, why bother?

We won, did we? How many of the 10 items of the Bill of Rights do they practice in Russia today? Because we practice all 10 of the planks of the Communist Manifesto in America today. We are in worse financial trouble than Russia was in the 80s. Our media is controlled. Our citizens are being strip-searched in order to travel. Government agencies such as the DEA are completely above the law and unaccountable. Citizens can be "disappeared" with no trial. VIPR teams are conducting random searches on citybuses. We have to stop and present papers at "DUI" checkpoints. I dunno, I'm not so sure we won.


Have you read A Communist Manifesto? What ten planks are you concerned about? The one about people being free to pursue their individual interests rather than working in a sweatshop because there were no opportunities for anything else for most people of Marx's time and place? Orn the very Christian belief that one is, indeed, one's brother's keeper and should help look out for one another rather than letting the dispossessed starve to death on the street?

After reading that book in Intro to Sociology I was proud to live in the closest embodiment of his post-revolutionary ideal. He wrote a wonderful description of those things that are good about the US and we didn't even need a truly bloody revolution. Just a few pitched battles until the government started telling companies to treat workers better.

Marx is absolutely no threat to American values once you take away the need for a revolution. And the Marxists themselves recognized this and adapted as larger society changed and they saw what the uneducated louts in the USSR were doing. They became critical theorists and were killed by the Nazis for mostly being Jewish.
 
2012-05-10 07:49:19 AM  
 
2012-05-10 07:53:11 AM  

untaken_name: Name one we don't practice, then. Pick whichever you like.


1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. You can still own private property so not this one.
2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. The current tax rate on income is the lowest in our history so not this one, while we were fighting WWII it was 90% on the highest brackets, so this one is out.
3. Abolition of all right of inheritance. Obviously not the case
4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. What rebels? What emigrants? Gonna say this one is not true either.
5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. Are there private banks? Then this is out
6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. Nope. Still private media.
7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. Nope
8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. Not a chance, where is this industrial army, we have trouble to even keep from running off the immigrants that do this labor.
9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country. Nope
10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form and combination of education with industrial production.[15] Ok this might be the one thing that we have done, and this is a bad thing?
 
2012-05-10 07:55:14 AM  

Marine1: untaken_name: This is political theater. Nothing more.

The Russians need to knock it off, then. The Cold War is over, wankers. You lost, we won. We have absolutely no interest in obliterating your cities anymore; you do that well enough on your own. We'd turn Moscow into a glass parking lot, but considering it's little more than barren lots covered in broken glass, why bother?


And Russia would do the same to you, troll. MAD is still in effect, and would be even with the anti missile system, since it doesn't work against Russian missiles (it probably would against Iranian ones though, which is the point I gather).

As for Moscow being barren and covered in broken glass. With the base index at 100 for New York, Moscow is 89. And we all know how cheap NY is. (source: http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/city_result.jsp?country=Russia&ci ty=Moscow )

Either you're ignorant, or a troll (or both).
 
2012-05-10 07:55:36 AM  

BolloxReader: Have you read A Communist Manifesto? What ten planks are you concerned about?


I don't know what A Communist Manifesto is, but I've read The Communist Manifesto, and the issue isn't whether I'm concerned about the planks or not, the issue is whether America has adopted more Communist ideals or whether Russia has adopted more American ideals. There are only 10 planks in the Communist Manifesto, btw, so those are the only 10 to be concerned about. Since you asked, though, I don't like central banks, I don't like public schools, I don't like government control over property, I don't like heavy progressive income taxes, I don't like people messing with inheritances, I don't like government control over the airwaves and communication, I don't like industrial agriculture, and I don't like government control over all means of production.
 
2012-05-10 07:56:01 AM  

untaken_name: manimal2878: untaken_name: Because we practice all 10 of the planks of the Communist Manifesto in America today.

This is simply a retarded statement.

Name one we don't practice, then. Pick whichever you like.


You're not allowed to inherit any stuff in the US?
Come on... that one was so retarded even the Soviets repealed it as soon as Lenin kicked the bucket.
 
2012-05-10 07:56:23 AM  
www.atomicgamer.com

As long as we hold back from the inital nuke fest, and let our ABM interceptors take out the incoming missles, we should be able to strike back, and only suffer 60-80 million loses. That's a win anyday!

/And park a sub fleet off the coast of India, to hit Russia in the middle
 
2012-05-10 07:59:10 AM  

Pribar:
The anti missile batteries they are talking about here do exist, yes the missiles currently have about a 50% success rate but launch enough interceptors and your hit probability goes up 8-), useful against a limited strike, such as what Iran might be able to accomplish or against a rogue missile launch but little else. Russia knows this will not seriously degrade any major strike it could launch so they are posturing for concessions as always.


The 50% hit rate is against missiles with a fixed trajectory (like Scuds, or whatever Iran has). Russia claims that their missiles can alter trajectory, which would put the hit rate at 0%.

The anti-missile missile is slower than the ballistic missile, and thus depends on it calculating where it will be at a certain time, if the ballistic missile changes trajectory it can't hit it.
 
2012-05-10 08:11:36 AM  

manimal2878: 1. Abolition of property in land and application of all rents of land to public purposes. You can still own private property so not this one.


Oh, really? And if you don't pay your rent (property tax), the actual owner will show up and assert superior title soon enough. Allodial title has been abolished.

manimal2878: 2. A heavy progressive or graduated income tax. The current tax rate on income is the lowest in our history so not this one, while we were fighting WWII it was 90% on the highest brackets, so this one is out.


It's a heavy progressive income tax, dolt. It doesn't matter if you think it's not heavy ENOUGH, it is a graduated (or progressive) income tax.

manimal2878: 3. Abolition of all right of inheritance. Obviously not the case


Do you know when the inheritance tax was instituted? Obviously not.

manimal2878: 4. Confiscation of the property of all emigrants and rebels. What rebels? What emigrants? Gonna say this one is not true either.


Um, have you not heard of confiscation of the property of criminals and people who expatriate? Those are emigrants, and the IRS taxes their income for 10 years after they emigrate. So, you're wrong yet again.

manimal2878: 5. Centralisation of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. Are there private banks? Then this is out


You don't know what a central bank is, do you? What banks issue private currency in the US? They use Federal Reserve notes. The Federal Reserve is the central bank. This isn't a radical statement; do some research.

manimal2878: 6. Centralisation of the means of communication and transport in the hands of the State. Nope. Still private media.


Private media? You're joking, right? Additionally, which major media outlet isn't a government-licensed corporation? Which means of national transportation isn't regulated by government? Are you seriously this ignorant?

manimal2878: 7. Extension of factories and instruments of production owned by the State; the bringing into cultivation of waste-lands, and the improvement of the soil generally in accordance with a common plan. Nope


Uh, then what do the Farm Bureau, the Bureau of Land Management, the EPA, OSHA, the Small Business Administration, and every other regulatory body do, then?

manimal2878: 8. Equal liability of all to labour. Establishment of industrial armies, especially for agriculture. Not a chance, where is this industrial army, we have trouble to even keep from running off the immigrants that do this labor.


Read up on the US Stability Police Force. Also, the Social Security contract calls for you to give up all of your labor for all of your life. What else do you call that but an industrial army? Read title 42 of the USC if you don't believe me. I mean, if you're capable of sounding out all the big words they use.

manimal2878: 9. Combination of agriculture with manufacturing industries; gradual abolition of the distinction between town and country, by a more equitable distribution of the population over the country. Nope


Link

manimal2878: 10. Free education for all children in public schools. Abolition of children's factory labour in its present form and combination of education with industrial production.[15] Ok this might be the one thing that we have done, and this is a bad thing?


Public school children perform at the 50th percentile. Private school children perform at about the 80th percentile. Yes, this is a very bad thing.

Come talk to me in 20 years, when you get a little seasoning in you and you maybe have some wisdom.
 
2012-05-10 08:12:12 AM  
Nuke Europe. I don't care.
 
2012-05-10 08:13:12 AM  

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Even if the system did exist, it would be a defense system and not an attack system, so what's the problem?


The theory is that is unbalances the MAD (mutually assured destruction) equation, which (in theory) is what prevents one nation from using nuclear weapons on another nuclear armed nation.

So, (in theory) being able to defend against their weapons is indirectly a very aggressive act.
 
2012-05-10 08:17:35 AM  

untaken_name: We won, did we? How many of the 10 items of the Bill of Rights do they practice in Russia today? Because we practice all 10 of the planks of the Communist Manifesto in America today. We are in worse financial trouble than Russia was in the 80s. Our media is controlled. Our citizens are being strip-searched in order to travel. Government agencies such as the DEA are completely above the law and unaccountable. Citizens can be "disappeared" with no trial. VIPR teams are conducting random searches on citybuses. We have to stop and present papers at "DUI" checkpoints. I dunno, I'm not so sure we won.



I take it you are a Ron Paul supporter? You certainly can't like Obama if you are worried about assassinating citizens and strip-searching travelers.
 
2012-05-10 08:18:40 AM  

untaken_name: Oh, really?


I see. You are one of those Ayn Rand types that believes there is no place at all for government regulation.

You can use hyperbolic language to try and defend your statement that we have adopted the communist planks, but in the end it is still a retarded statement. The planks of the Communist system were absolute control by the state. We do not have that, we can vote or change the laws and regulations that you seem to think are communist, the laws we have are at the will of the people not the state. That is a distinction you fail to grasp apparently.
 
2012-05-10 08:20:04 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: I take it you are a Ron Paul supporter? You certainly can't like Obama if you are worried about assassinating citizens and strip-searching travelers.


I hate to piss in your petunias, but we're way past band aids and partisan hackery being worth f*ck. Never mind everything he said is true, just git that uppity kneegrah out!
 
2012-05-10 08:21:02 AM  

manimal2878: untaken_name: Oh, really?

I see. You are one of those Ayn Rand types that believes there is no place at all for government regulation.

You can use hyperbolic language to try and defend your statement that we have adopted the communist planks, but in the end it is still a retarded statement. The planks of the Communist system were absolute control by the state. We do not have that, we can vote or change the laws and regulations that you seem to think are communist, the laws we have are at the will of the people not the state. That is a distinction you fail to grasp apparently.



I just want to further add, the planks use absolute language and certain terms for a reason, you can't ignore them to make them fit your deluded view that America has become communist. A tax on something is not the abolition of that right, despite what you might think.
 
2012-05-10 08:21:09 AM  

manimal2878: we can vote or change the laws and regulations


How's that working out so far?
 
2012-05-10 08:24:34 AM  

bunner: I hate to piss in your petunias, but we're way past band aids and partisan hackery being worth f*ck. Never mind everything he said is true, just git that uppity kneegrah out!


So....you have something against "kneegrahs"?

I was just wondering if untakenname was a libertarian, or Randian or what? It sounds like maybe even Ron Paul may be a little to statist for him.
 
2012-05-10 08:25:27 AM  

untaken_name: Public school children perform at the 50th percentile. Private school children perform at about the 80th percentile.

Citation needed.

Come talk to me in 20 years, when you get a little seasoning in you and you maybe have some wisdom.


Appeal to age fallacy.

The more I look at your words I don't just think you are deluded, I think you are a liar.
 
2012-05-10 08:26:44 AM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: So....you have something against "kneegrahs"?


I've seen this movie before. Bye.
 
2012-05-10 08:27:06 AM  

bunner: manimal2878: we can vote or change the laws and regulations

How's that working out so far?


Pretty well, of course I'm not a bedwetting conservative that sees communists under my bed.
 
2012-05-10 08:27:23 AM  
The interceptor missile system works. Just not on more modern missiles.
Countries like iran that have just started getting into icbm's will find them being shot down. The russians are angry because installing the system dumps billions into the design and helps along research.
20 years down the road interceptors may well be able to track and disable russian missiles if properly funded and tested.
 
2012-05-10 08:28:57 AM  

manimal2878: bunner: manimal2878: we can vote or change the laws and regulations

How's that working out so far?

Pretty well, of course I'm not a bedwetting conservative that sees communists under my bed.


Nor am I. So what meaningful change in the metric f*ckton of circuitous, obfuscated and gymnastic laws that serve nothing but wealth have you effected with a pencil, lately?
 
2012-05-10 08:35:37 AM  

untaken_name: manimal2878: 3. Abolition of all right of inheritance. Obviously not the case

Do you know when the inheritance tax was instituted? Obviously not.



An inheritance tax is the "abolition of all rights of inheritance"?

I was interested in what you had to day and started to take you seriously as a libertarian, or maybe Ron Paul supporter, but you really went off the deep end. Not one of your rebuttals to manimal makes sense.
 
2012-05-10 08:36:42 AM  

bunner: manimal2878: bunner: manimal2878: we can vote or change the laws and regulations

How's that working out so far?

Pretty well, of course I'm not a bedwetting conservative that sees communists under my bed.

Nor am I. So what meaningful change in the metric f*ckton of circuitous, obfuscated and gymnastic laws that serve nothing but wealth have you effected with a pencil, lately?


Calm down.

I'm sure no answer I give will matter to you, as you have placed the word meaningful in your question so as to be dismissive of any law or change that I might think matters.
 
2012-05-10 08:43:34 AM  

runescorpio: The interceptor missile system works. Just not on more modern missiles.
Countries like iran that have just started getting into icbm's will find them being shot down. The russians are angry because installing the system dumps billions into the design and helps along research.
20 years down the road interceptors may well be able to track and disable russian missiles if properly funded and tested.


Whose missiles will then be 20 years advanced. The relationship between weaponry and protection has always been a moving target. Presuming one weapon type will stand still while we take a decade or two to develop countermeasures against it is not reflective of reality.

/one can hope the need for nuclear tipped ICBMs on alert will be further lessened (or maybe even eliminated, man can dream right?) in 20 years.
 
2012-05-10 08:47:15 AM  

manimal2878: Calm down.


I've seen this movie, too.

www.instablogsimages.comyes, I am all a rage. Mmmhmm. Jesus, man, aren't you a little old for this pose?

manimal2878: I'm sure no answer I give will matter to you, as you have placed the word meaningful in your question so as to be dismissive of any law or change that I might think matters.


Well, I can hardly argue with that. *sigh*
 
2012-05-10 08:54:39 AM  

bunner: manimal2878: Calm down.

I've seen this movie, too.

[www.instablogsimages.com image 600x542]yes, I am all a rage. Mmmhmm. Jesus, man, aren't you a little old for this pose?

manimal2878: I'm sure no answer I give will matter to you, as you have placed the word meaningful in your question so as to be dismissive of any law or change that I might think matters.

Well, I can hardly argue with that. *sigh*


Did you have a point? It seems to be lost in your dismissive statements.
 
2012-05-10 08:58:28 AM  

manimal2878: Did you have a point? It seems to be lost in your dismissive statements.


Said the man who answered my question with a condescending inference, an assumptive assertion designed to present my query as being disingenuous and then accused ME of being dismissive. Don't take this personally, but I don't even bother to piss in that shallow pool anymore. Bye.
 
2012-05-10 08:58:44 AM  

runescorpio: The interceptor missile system works. Just not on more modern missiles.
Countries like iran that have just started getting into icbm's will find them being shot down. The russians are angry because installing the system dumps billions into the design and helps along research.
20 years down the road interceptors may well be able to track and disable russian missiles if properly funded and tested.


the missile defense system is also almost totally concomitant with general air defense against tactical missiles, cruise missiles, manned fighter jets, and drones.

this stuff is never a waste.
it is the purest form of defense. the only way to do this is is to tie it on to the back of your AA systems and make them better.
and the Russians are ahead of us in it because it is so closely aligned with general SAM technology and ABM technology. the russians have already deployed working ABM technology to central europe. They sent a battery of their S400 to the baltic region a few dozen miles from poland.

people that claim that the U.S. is upsetting things by deploying a technology they then claim is absolutely worthless in every way for are the worst kind of useful idiots, ones that are duplicitous on their face and have the ability to actually do harm with their moaning.
 
2012-05-10 09:08:36 AM  
S-300V (SA-12) system equipped with missile a maximum range of 75 km, similar to the U.S. "Patriot". Late production of the S-300V also has the ability to intercept short-range ballistic missiles. With the S-300V air defense missiles are stored on the launch barrel (each transmitter is equipped with four or two missiles), each set of launchers are equipped with a separate indication radar.

Russian military claimed that the S-400′s performance is superior to active duty U.S. military "Patriot" system. At present, Russia has embarked on this new equipment to the international market. S-400 missile weighs 1.8 tons, a length of 8.4 m, approximately 50 cm in diameter, warhead weight of 145.5 kg, with a maximum range of about 400 km, can intercept altitude of 30 km of the target. S-400 radar detection range up to 700 km.

S-400 system to intercept distance of almost five times the U.S. "Patriot" system, the ability to intercept stealth aircraft. In addition, it also has certain anti-missile capability to intercept ballistic missiles within range of 3,500 km - which means that S-400 to intercept the flight speed of 5000 m / s ballistic missiles (ballistic missiles farther, the fighting Ministry close to the target speed is greater).

In fact, S-400 system equipped with two types of missiles, the kind of small (120 km) range. Although the system has not yet received the battle-tested, but U.S. intelligence agencies in the Russian test data analysis, S-400 is a great threat to force air defense system. (Compass)
 
2012-05-10 09:47:47 AM  

bunner: manimal2878: Did you have a point? It seems to be lost in your dismissive statements.

Said the man who answered my question with a condescending inference, an assumptive assertion designed to present my query as being disingenuous and then accused ME of being dismissive. Don't take this personally, but I don't even bother to piss in that shallow pool anymore. Bye.


Holy crap, how many minutes did you spend looking in a thesaurus to make that statement? You're calling him condescending using that kind of language, when you could have just said the same thing by calling him self-centered arsehole like the rest of fark.

Keep using those big words though. I'm sure that someone will mistake you for being an engrish professor, and therefore your argument has more validity.

/You're still wrong
//I need coffee
 
2012-05-10 10:13:26 AM  

NumberFiveIsAlive: bunner: manimal2878: Did you have a point? It seems to be lost in your dismissive statements.

Said the man who answered my question with a condescending inference, an assumptive assertion designed to present my query as being disingenuous and then accused ME of being dismissive. Don't take this personally, but I don't even bother to piss in that shallow pool anymore. Bye.

Holy crap, how many minutes did you spend looking in a thesaurus to make that statement? You're calling him condescending using that kind of language, when you could have just said the same thing by calling him self-centered arsehole like the rest of fark.

Keep using those big words though. I'm sure that someone will mistake you for being an engrish professor, and therefore your argument has more validity.

/You're still wrong
//I need coffee


I speak English. I'm fine with that. But since you're convinced it's some sort of handicap, I'll break it down for your level of available vocabulary. "Whatchoo got to do wid it, muthafu*ka?" Yeah, nothing. Bye, troll boy. English. It's my first language.
 
2012-05-10 10:20:42 AM  

untaken_name: Because we practice all 10 of the planks of the Communist Manifesto in America today.


You know, I was just thinking we should outlaw tractors, combines, and bring back child labor, preferably out in the fields planting and cultivating.

tammybruce.com

/improvement of soil is for pussies, too.
 
2012-05-10 10:22:55 AM  

relcec: S-300V (SA-12) system equipped with missile a maximum range of 75 km, similar to the U.S. "Patriot". Late production of the S-300V also has the ability to intercept short-range ballistic missiles. With the S-300V air defense missiles are stored on the launch barrel (each transmitter is equipped with four or two missiles), each set of launchers are equipped with a separate indication radar.

Russian military claimed that the S-400′s performance is superior to active duty U.S. military "Patriot" system. At present, Russia has embarked on this new equipment to the international market. S-400 missile weighs 1.8 tons, a length of 8.4 m, approximately 50 cm in diameter, warhead weight of 145.5 kg, with a maximum range of about 400 km, can intercept altitude of 30 km of the target. S-400 radar detection range up to 700 km.

S-400 system to intercept distance of almost five times the U.S. "Patriot" system, the ability to intercept stealth aircraft. In addition, it also has certain anti-missile capability to intercept ballistic missiles within range of 3,500 km - which means that S-400 to intercept the flight speed of 5000 m / s ballistic missiles (ballistic missiles farther, the fighting Ministry close to the target speed is greater).

In fact, S-400 system equipped with two types of missiles, the kind of small (120 km) range. Although the system has not yet received the battle-tested, but U.S. intelligence agencies in the Russian test data analysis, S-400 is a great threat to force air defense system. (Compass)


The bolded part always gives me a chuckle. Every single missile out there has the ability to intercept a stealth aircraft, the issue is if you can track it well enough and long enough to get the missile to the target. Stealth isn't some mystical power that makes the plane immune to regular missiles, it simply greatly reduces the range at which an aircraft can be detected.

That being said, the S400 system, if it works as advertised, is quite a bit better than Patriot. The Russians never seemed to play around with air defense, there stuff was/is generally always quite good for its time.
 
2012-05-10 10:24:55 AM  

untaken_name: Uh, then what do the Farm Bureau, the Bureau of Land Management, the EPA, OSHA, the Small Business Administration, and every other regulatory body do, then?


You do realize that Farm Bureaus here in the U.S. aren't run by the government, right?

Right?
 
2012-05-10 10:34:53 AM  

theMightyRegeya: untaken_name: Uh, then what do the Farm Bureau, the Bureau of Land Management, the EPA, OSHA, the Small Business Administration, and every other regulatory body do, then?

You do realize that Farm Bureaus here in the U.S. aren't run by the government, right?

Right?


Do realize that I wouldn't see any of his posts if you dumb-farks would not reply to him? DO YOU?
 
2012-05-10 10:37:59 AM  
untaken_name: Uh, then what do the Farm Bureau, the Bureau of Land Management, the EPA, OSHA, the Small Business Administration, and every other regulatory body do, then?

Move money around. That's why they, and anything else around here, exist at all.
 
2012-05-10 11:08:42 AM  

bunner: manimal2878: Did you have a point? It seems to be lost in your dismissive statements.

Said the man who answered my question with a condescending inference, an assumptive assertion designed to present my query as being disingenuous and then accused ME of being dismissive. Don't take this personally, but I don't even bother to piss in that shallow pool anymore. Bye.


Bye then.
 
2012-05-10 12:06:32 PM  
You're all farking idiots.
 
2012-05-10 12:09:02 PM  
untaken_name:

We won, did we? How many of the 10 items of the Bill of Rights do they practice in Russia today? Because we practice all 10 of the planks of the Communist Manifesto in America today. We are in worse financial trouble than Russia was in the 80s. Our media is controlled. Our citizens are being strip-searched in order to travel. Government agencies such as the DEA are completely above the law and unaccountable. Citizens can be "disappeared" with no trial. VIPR teams are conducting random searches on citybuses. We have to stop and present papers at "DUI" checkpoints. I dunno, I'm not so sure we won.

netfiles.uiuc.edu
 
2012-05-10 12:10:21 PM  

ThrobblefootSpectre: untaken_name: manimal2878: 3. Abolition of all right of inheritance. Obviously not the case

Do you know when the inheritance tax was instituted? Obviously not.


An inheritance tax is the "abolition of all rights of inheritance"?

I was interested in what you had to day and started to take you seriously as a libertarian, or maybe Ron Paul supporter, but you really went off the deep end. Not one of your rebuttals to manimal makes sense.


This.

What a Moran
 
2012-05-10 12:46:41 PM  
Maybe Russia will ask North Korea to take it out with their imaginary system.
 
2012-05-10 01:14:27 PM  
I'm a little disappointed that anybody talks about 'winning' the Cold War. It's a symptom of the kind of petty nationalism that perpetuates such conflicts in the first place. The millions of former Soviet citizens who no longer wait in line for bread were the real winners here.

Shame on you.
 
2012-05-10 01:43:16 PM  
Wait'll the Rooskies hear about Dr. Osterman...
 
2012-05-10 03:56:38 PM  
untaken_name:
Uh, ok. Keep telling yourself that, if it helps you sleep. Who cares if we're ruining peoples' lives for no reason, as long as we aren't doing it because they don't like the government! Well, except for all those people locked up for protesting...

...except the people in your examples weren't locked up for protesting.

They were locked up for doing things like trespassing in a private building in order to disrupt a business meeting in the first case, and for intentionally blocking traffic or blocking sidewalks in all of the others.

There's a solid legal difference between "protesting" and "breaking the law just to annoy people you don't like." The OWS people have never been "arrested for protesting." A helluva lot of them have been hauled off to jail for things like "sitting down in the middle of a street to block traffic." Even the ones who were arrested outside of the White House weren't protesting - they were just sitting on the sidewalk (which is certainly against the law). If they had been walking back and forth, carrying signs, they would have been untouched.

It's a common tactic - if you're not getting any attention, break a law, then pretend you got arrested for doing something innocuous.
 
2012-05-10 04:16:02 PM  

volodya: untaken_name:

We won, did we? How many of the 10 items of the Bill of Rights do they practice in Russia today? Because we practice all 10 of the planks of the Communist Manifesto in America today. We are in worse financial trouble than Russia was in the 80s. Our media is controlled. Our citizens are being strip-searched in order to travel. Government agencies such as the DEA are completely above the law and unaccountable. Citizens can be "disappeared" with no trial. VIPR teams are conducting random searches on citybuses. We have to stop and present papers at "DUI" checkpoints. I dunno, I'm not so sure we won.

netfiles.uiuc.edu


Yep.

I wonder what car route untaken_name used to get strip searched.
 
2012-05-10 04:18:39 PM  
i810.photobucket.com

Obscure?
 
2012-05-10 05:44:04 PM  
Mandrake, you can start by making me a drink of grain alcohol and rain water
 
2012-05-10 07:57:46 PM  

Darth_Lukecash: Settle it with Paper, Rock, Scissors!


lizard spock
 
2012-05-11 06:44:39 AM  

manimal2878: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Even if the system did exist, it would be a defense system and not an attack system, so what's the problem? There are those who say that setting up a good defense is a prelude to making an offense. But that'd be like if I fortified my den against being broken into and my neighbor said "You're doing that because you plan to break into my house"

What has kept the nuclear option off the table all these years is the concept of mutually assured destruction. If we create a system that will prevent retribution if we fire are weapons it means we can now use them offensively instead of defensively. That is why a system like this bothers other countries.


Good point
 
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