I believe there are as many gods as there are groups of people that believe in them because I believe we create our own reality. So if you don't believe in a god then I believe the universe is just fine with that and if you do believe in a god then your beliefs will help you see what you want to.

I think the underlying reality is neutral to our beliefs and we impose whatever order we can understand upon it. I suppose, since I don't believe everything was created by an all-powerful superbeing, I can never be a Christian.

That's why I believe in goodness and peaceful coexistence overall, because I want to live in a good universe, and nobody else's deity or morality has anything to do with it or any right to authority over my personal universe.

TwowheelinTim: MrBallou: Aarontology: Born again atheists are douchebags on the internet

Born again religious people codify their bigotry and hatreds into state law.

BOTH SIDES ARE BAD

What I hear you saying is that people with opinions are irritating. I agree.

Opinions are like hemorrhoids: any asshole can have one.

That's just your opinion.

Yeah, well, this is the nature of irony, pal.

89 Stick-Up Kid: omnibus_necanda_sunt: pecosdave: Mock26: So, can you prove that those atrocities were committed because they were atheists? Go on, I dare you to prove it.

How is that different than simply saying they persecuted people who weren't of their own belief system?

No one kills anyone simply because they're Atheist, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim etc... They do it because they have another driving motivation often with their beliefs (which can include the cited communist beliefs) as a motivating factor. What's the real difference other than splitting hairs?

I've felt the urge to do violence against those who do not agree with me, and it had nothing to do with wanting to steal their girlfriends, land, money, etc. It was because they didn't agree with me.

I've mostly outgrown that, but there's a level of conflict that's difficult to describe wherein the lack of a religious or other 'doctrinal' belief system makes pursuing the conflict give you the appearance of a shiat-flinging monkey. And I mean that literally, in that even the guy you're pissed at gives you a mildly horrified and bewildered look.

There's no real difference between "Well, you're a f@ggot!" and "Well, you can go suck Stalin's cock in hell."
It's just that one has a goddamned book written about it with nine levels and everything that every high schooler has to read, and the other is just being childish.

Do I have to say Hitler to get a response? Ok. HITLERHITLERHITLERHITLERHITLER

Know how I know you're ghey? You used the word 'doctrinal'.

Plonk.

pecosdave: I'll admit it, the history of "in the name of a God" violence is deeper and goes back further than "in the name of no God" violence, but the "no God" folks aren't the pinnacle of civility they want to claim to be.

The Holocaust wasn't carried out "in the name of a God". It was a campaign of genocide and ethnic cleansing premised upon various racist delusions and psuedoscientific nonsense. Its perpetrators just happened to be largely Christian.

Similarly, the atrocities carried out by governments influenced by Marxist ideas weren't carried out "in the name of no God". They were built around the idea that all of history can be represented as a struggle between various groups, and they were trying to hurry the process along so as to achieve a state of final utopia. The perpetrators there just happened to be largely atheist.

kingoomieiii: Gyrfalcon: They tell their children that people who threaten their children with said torture are stupid fools for worshipping an invisible sky wizard and they must treat them with utmost scorn and derision for doing so.

I dare you to argue that people who threaten their children with torture aren't worthy of scorn or derision. Please, I'm begging you.

Not likely.

But the point I was trying to make is that so many "atheists", much as many "Christians", go around piously (?) declaring that all they want to do is exercise their right not to believe in a god, and then wind up acting in the name of their disbelief just as badly as everyone else ever did in the name of their belief. Just because they do it in the name of "no god" doesn't make their actions any better. And saying "Well, we don't tell our kids they'll burn in Hell if they become gay" doesn't excuse it, because only one sect of one religion does that. A couple more will kill people who are openly gay; but most of the rest just ignore it.

Now, I'll grant that Christianity and Islam have been unusually hostile--since they're unusually young--but why no equal scorn and venom towards Buddhists or Hindus? Why less attacks toward practicing Jews? Is it the belief in the god that's objectionable or just the Christian belief in god that worries atheists so? The back-and-forth that sometimes goes on here "More wars have been done in the name of Christ/what about all the deaths caused by atheist Communism blah blah blah" are just a variant of the old "They're worse than us!" b/s that everyone engages in.

I just find it fascinating in an anthropological way that everyone has to have their ardent belief and then rabidly convince everyone else that IT MUST BE TRUE and YOUR BELIEF IS WRONG!!! no matter what it is. Your god is a false god! No, yours is! No, both of yours is, there isn't any god! And if you don't believe me, you're stupid and wrong because you say/do/think X. But none of it can ever be proven, so nobody can ever be right.

Nick the What: Mock26: pecosdave: Mock26: Trying to move the goalposts a tiny bit, are we? You said, and I quote, "Truth is atheist have committed genocide in the name of their religion." Now you are saying that they did kill in the name of their "religion"? Why the need to lie?

By the way, not trying to split hairs, just trying to get you to support your lies with some actual proof.

Now you're just outright trolling, or in denial.

Are you denying that you said, ""Truth is atheist have committed genocide in the name of their religion."? Those are your exact words. I merely asked you to prove that those atheists committed their atrocities because they were atheists. You then replied, "No one kills anyone simply because they're Atheist, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim etc" That is a pretty big contradiction to what you said. If anyone is in denial it is you.

I'm following along here and Mock26 is correct.

I disagree.

Does a Muslim run a plane into a building because he's a Muslim? No, he does it because he's radicalized and feels he's doing it for a greater purpose.

Does a Marxist execute religious people because he's an Atheist? No, he does it because he's radicalized and feels he's doing it for a greater purpose.

I really don't see the difference, and I most certainly don't see a lie emanating from myself.

pecosdave: Does a Muslim run a plane into a building because he's a Muslim? No, he does it because he's radicalized and feels he's doing it for a greater purpose.

...the "greater purpose" being Islam.

That "article" has to be the flimsiest premise for a flamewar thread I've ever seen. The next logical step would be threads linking directly to a banner ad.

I'm skeptical that there are really people who physically cannot do (or learn to do) the mathematical operations required to understand modern physics (with the exception of people with legitimate genetic disorders or other problems that fark up their head). The average joe doesn't really feel the motivation, or lacks the opportunity. It's those who feel they shouldn't/don't need to, and say "God is all I need" that piss me off.

If you take LSD and all you see are weird eagle-lion-man face things, six-winged flames, rings of eyes, trumpets, and burning cities, you might be unlucky, or just retarded. Get back to me when you see this:


fold up into this


without coming undone at any point or passing through itself.

That happened one time when I took phenethylamines, and I'd have to say it was more awe-inspiring than any vision of the face of god would have possibly been. Could you imagine realizing that the whole world was as flat as a cardboard cutout, without it looking any different? It was like the universe was a magic eye puzzle.

I can't do 5D, unfortunately. Insufficient gray matter.

pecosdave: Nick the What: Mock26: pecosdave: Mock26: Trying to move the goalposts a tiny bit, are we? You said, and I quote, "Truth is atheist have committed genocide in the name of their religion." Now you are saying that they did kill in the name of their "religion"? Why the need to lie?

By the way, not trying to split hairs, just trying to get you to support your lies with some actual proof.

Now you're just outright trolling, or in denial.

Are you denying that you said, ""Truth is atheist have committed genocide in the name of their religion."? Those are your exact words. I merely asked you to prove that those atheists committed their atrocities because they were atheists. You then replied, "No one kills anyone simply because they're Atheist, Christian, Buddhist, Muslim etc" That is a pretty big contradiction to what you said. If anyone is in denial it is you.

I'm following along here and Mock26 is correct.

I disagree.

Does a Muslim run a plane into a building because he's a Muslim? No, he does it because he's radicalized and feels he's doing it for a greater purpose.

Does a Marxist execute religious people because he's an Atheist? No, he does it because he's radicalized and feels he's doing it for a greater purpose.

I really don't see the difference, and I most certainly don't see a lie emanating from myself.

"Radicalized."

Explain this blanket term, please.

And no strawmanning.

Mock26: Gyrfalcon: Aarontology: Born again atheists are douchebags on the internet

Born again religious people codify their bigotry and hatreds into state law.

BOTH SIDES ARE BAD

So vote worship Witch-King of Angmar.

Oh sure, worship the dark lord, she says. But does she say that the Witch-king is actually the chief of the Nazgûl? Nooooo!

So, what else are you hiding from us, Gyrfalcon? Hmmm?

I'm a disciple and servant of Melkor.

Oh, and I bash Orthodox Judaism just as much as Christianity and Islam. In fact, I probably know more about world religions than Richard Dawkins, and he's the one trying to take on the world. (Hint to Dawkins: Look at Germany in 1900-1945. Doing that doesn't end well).

List of things I dislike:
Simonians
Sabians
Druze
Sufis
Alawites
Sunnis
Shi'ites
the doctrine of Juche
Confucianism
Taoism
Shintoism
Pharisees
Sadducees
Samaritans
Essenes
Roman Catholics
Coptic Catholics
Armenian Catholics
Syriac Catholics
Rastafarians
followers of Asatru
Gnostics
Manichaeans
Zoroastrians
Mormons
members of the Nation of Islam (the one with black people and space aliens and Louis Farrakhan)
Scientologists
Kimbanguists
Mormons
Monophysites
Nestorians
Ebionites
Lutherans
Baptists
Mennonites
Episcopalians
Amish
Methodists
Presbyterians
Anglicans
Reformed Protestants
Congregational Protestants
Maenads
Wiccans
Baha'i
Confucianists
Platonists
Any and all Native American, African, Malay, Indonesian, Hawaiian, et. al. animists
Belief in sorcery, wizardry, voodoo, magic, magick, the evil eye, fascination, sihr, alchemy, demonology, angelology, ufology, et. al.