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(Guardian) NewsFlash Tonight: Obama to endorse gay marriage Tomorrow: will divorce Michelle. Friday: will marry Biden   ( guardian.co.uk) divider line
    More: NewsFlash, Joe Biden  
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12975 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 May 2012 at 2:21 PM (5 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»


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2012-05-09 02:53:36 PM  

Maud Dib: Peaceboy: Don't sell them short, I'm sure some Republicans will welcome this decision.

[0.tqn.com image 220x263]

[i865.photobucket.com image 297x357]


2.bp.blogspot.com
melaniekillingervowell.files.wordpress.com
www.newscorpse.com
 
2012-05-09 02:53:42 PM  

kukukupo: As it stands at this minute; I'm a possible Obama voter (I don't see much difference between Obama/Romney) but if he comes out pro-federal-gay, I would probably vote for Romney to keep the status quo.



You're voting over someone who is taking over our future for the next 4-8 years. How could something as trivial as gayness possibly affect your thinking so much? Just what is it about accepting gays that upsets you so much?
 
2012-05-09 02:53:45 PM  

thurstonxhowell: netcentric: The interviewer should ask him, as a followup question, what he thinks about politicians who will say anything to get elected.....

That would be a weird thing to ask a guy who just got done taking a principled stand that most voters disagree with.


At some point he is at odds with his earlier principled stand. the one where he said something like:
I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs, say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman....

So if he is feeling political headwinds changing, and flops....then it is a

img219.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-09 02:53:56 PM  

Sin_City_Superhero: TheAlmightyOS: Sin_City_Superhero: Obama just wants to marry a U.S. citizen so he can stay in the country.

I live with my mom

unless that's snark. still can't tell

It's snark.


ah. sorry. carry on then
 
2012-05-09 02:54:04 PM  

HeartBurnKid: That'd be the very definition of a leader taking a right stance instead of a politically-expedient one, showing principle, integrity, and conviction, and that's something I always love to see.


It doesn't hurt that the right stance also happens to be politically expedient, though.
 
2012-05-09 02:54:46 PM  

D_Evans45: kukukupo: As it stands at this minute; I'm a possible Obama voter (I don't see much difference between Obama/Romney) but if he comes out pro-federal-gay, I would probably vote for Romney to keep the status quo.


You're voting over someone who is taking over our future for the next 4-8 years. How could something as trivial as gayness possibly affect your thinking so much? Just what is it about accepting gays that upsets you so much?


If the gays can marry, we don't have 4-8 years.
 
2012-05-09 02:55:07 PM  
As a Romney-supporting republican, this is an ice cream potato.
 
2012-05-09 02:55:09 PM  
ZOMG! FLIP-FLOPPING WAFFLER!!
 
2012-05-09 02:55:10 PM  
So will he have to change his name to Obuttfark?
 
2012-05-09 02:55:10 PM  

what_now: Just keep quite until after the election, Obama.

The last thing you need is to organize the fundies into voting.

Sure, you'll still crush Romney, but at the cost of the senate? Or retaking the house? Or at the very least, at the cost of getting rid of some of the pants on head retarded house members?


He should also abandon women and their access of medical treatment to the conservatives in the interest of political expediency.

He wouldn't want to alienate someone or get the fundies to vote after all. Best sacrifice the womenfolk for the Senate. I'm sure you won't mind having your medical decisions and reproductive rights being restricted so Obama can win a second term and the Senate, right?
 
2012-05-09 02:55:33 PM  
About farking time.

Let Cory Booker help him write that speech. He knows what needs to be said and how to say it.
 
2012-05-09 02:55:36 PM  

D_Evans45: kukukupo: As it stands at this minute; I'm a possible Obama voter (I don't see much difference between Obama/Romney) but if he comes out pro-federal-gay, I would probably vote for Romney to keep the status quo.


You're voting over someone who is taking over our future for the next 4-8 years. How could something as trivial as gayness possibly affect your thinking so much? Just what is it about accepting gays that upsets you so much?


because he is trolling.

Oh no backwards ignorant Republicans won't vote for Obama!
 
2012-05-09 02:56:02 PM  

JackieRabbit: Well, it seems that Joe Biden didn't gaffe. He was instructed to drop this bomb on Sunday to gauge reaction and set the stage for the President. If I am wrong, Arne Duncan would have not done the same thing the following day.



I wish the Obama White House was this clever -- we'd have a single payer health care system if they were. They clearly did not want to be discussing gay marriage in such a close election year where it could be used as a wedge issue in socially conservative swing states like Ohio, Pennsylvania and Florida.

The real question is if Biden did it by accident or if it was actually calculated on his part to force Obama's hand. Only Joe Biden knows, but I really wouldn't be surprised if he thought to himself "damn it, i'm just going to do the right thing," right before he made his remarks.
 
2012-05-09 02:56:03 PM  
Obama: Biden you dolt! our re-election is more important than our love!
 
2012-05-09 02:56:18 PM  
Honestly, he needs to stay silent, or at least non committed to this until after the election. i think he could still win, but it would cost him the senate as the fundies flood the polls.

That would be the last thing he needs.
 
2012-05-09 02:56:58 PM  
As a Romney-supporting republican, i can't tie my shoe laces.
 
2012-05-09 02:57:02 PM  

Corvus: fracto73: It won't win over people who supported Romney, but it could get people who didn't care to the polls. It is as important for Obama to differentiate himself from Romney as it is for Romney to stand out from Obama.

WHO? People weren't going to vote for him after he repealed DADT and no longer defends DOMA? If that is the case they are too stupid to understand what his opinion would be now.

However the majority of Independent voters, Hispanics and Blacks are anti-gay marriage and many have strong feelings about it. All groups he desperately needs the votes of to win.



Less political minded americans have a short attention span. Repealing DADT and throwing DOMA under the bus have been out of the news cycle for a while. What ever he says here is going to remain relevant, and makes his past actions news worthy, for the rest of the election cycle.

This might cause him to lose votes, but who knows. You are right about some groups opposing this, but is it enough to lose him support? Between now and the election there is enough time to convince those groups that there is more than enough about Obama that they like to make the marriage issue less important.

I am no expert, but Obama is pretty savvy probably has experts on his payroll. I imagine he has figured out that this is a winner for him.
 
2012-05-09 02:57:02 PM  

netcentric: thurstonxhowell: netcentric: The interviewer should ask him, as a followup question, what he thinks about politicians who will say anything to get elected.....

That would be a weird thing to ask a guy who just got done taking a principled stand that most voters disagree with.

At some point he is at odds with his earlier principled stand. the one where he said something like:
I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs, say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman....

So if he is feeling political headwinds changing, and flops....then it is a

[img219.imageshack.us image 124x93]


Am I supposed to be upset that he changed his opinion in a way that makes him more closely aligned with my beliefs?

Also, I'm betting that, if this interview even approaches what people are assuming it will be, he endorses civil unions, not marriage. Which wouldn't even be a contradiction from his previous statement.
 
2012-05-09 02:57:14 PM  
Same-sex marriage is not a political issue. It should never have been a political issue. American citizens are being denied fundamental human rights. How are people even legitimatizing this?

I don't get politics.
 
2012-05-09 02:57:16 PM  
"I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don't Ask Don't Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I've just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married," Obama told Roberts, in an interview to appear on ABC's "Good Morning America" Thursday. Excerpts of the interview will air tonight on ABC's "World News with Diane Sawyer." Link

Stream at 3PM ET. Link
 
2012-05-09 02:57:31 PM  

Why Would I Read the Article: Wow, he's finally decided to embrace equality for everyone, four years after he shied away from saying anything about Prop 8 during the 2008 election because it wasn't politically opportunistic. He's also finally making the rounds on colleges to get the young vote after he spent 4 years doing absolutely nothing to either help kids get to college, or afford it.

This is all just grandstanding for the upcoming election. Forgive me for not being impressed.



Uh... You've been to America before, right?
 
2012-05-09 02:57:46 PM  

qorkfiend: D_Evans45: kukukupo: As it stands at this minute; I'm a possible Obama voter (I don't see much difference between Obama/Romney) but if he comes out pro-federal-gay, I would probably vote for Romney to keep the status quo.


You're voting over someone who is taking over our future for the next 4-8 years. How could something as trivial as gayness possibly affect your thinking so much? Just what is it about accepting gays that upsets you so much?

If the gays can marry, we don't have 4-8 years.


Oh, here go hell come.
 
2012-05-09 02:57:50 PM  

Aarontology: See, here's teh thing. If Obama comes out in favor of this, it's going to cause the right to react.

The teabaggers, being the reactionary lunatics that they are will not be satisfied with Romney's opposition to gay marriage, or his proposed hatemendment banning gay marriage.

They're going to want something even more extreme than that, like the reinstatement of sodomy bans, or banning gay people from coming out, or something like that. They're going to get even crazier, driving moderates and independents away.

While someone may not like marriage equality, they're also not going to be on board with the inevitable hatefest that comes from the GOP


Very good point.

He's basically turning the tables on them. Rather than use a social issue in a negative fashion to drive voters to the polls like Bush/Rove did, he's coming out on the positive side of the issue in order to drag the backwards farks into the light of day so everyone can see them for what they are and be repulsed. And yep, with Romney as the nominee you just know he'll go along with them the entire way since he simply can't win without them.
 
2012-05-09 02:57:51 PM  

Rincewind53: Teiritzamna:
Article IV, Section 1:
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Sadly DOMA is bullshiat, but it does not fall afoul of the FF&C. Congress gets to decide what gets full faith and credit, and in DOMA they did. Pricks.

No, Congress gets to decide the "Manner" in which they shall be "Proved", not whether or not something gets FF&C in the first place.


Teit's right. You're missing the last clause. Congress gets to decide the manner in which the records shall be proved and the effect that proved records have. In this case, they've decided "zero effect".
 
2012-05-09 02:58:08 PM  
I was probably going to abstain from voting, but if there's a federal initiative to legalize gay marriage nationwide from Obama, I'd vote for him in a heartbeat and feel no regret about it.
 
2012-05-09 02:58:20 PM  

Rincewind53: Teiritzamna:


hey man, I'm with you here. But the fact that there is a solid colorable argument that the second clause allows Congress to say that a gay marriage cert is invalid (i.e. unprovable) and unenforceable ("effect thereof") + the fact that FF&C was never used to fight interracial marriage bans means that the FF&C is likely not a strong avenue of attack. Its too easy a dodge for a federal court to avoid ruling on the issue. Also the "public policy" out could be invoked. I would say following Loving and attacking on the EPC/DPC angle is better. But then again im just a poor city IP lawyer, so i could be totally off base.
 
2012-05-09 02:58:25 PM  
its raining men
 
2012-05-09 02:58:35 PM  

dosboot: If Obama does finally evolve and supports gay marriage, I also hope he ends his bigoted position regarding polygamy.


The analogy to polygamous marriage just doesn't work.

The whole point of civil marriage (from the state's point of view) is to have one designated person with certain rights and responsibilities: for instance, power of attorney, the ability to make health care and end-of-life decisions. From the state's point of view, it really doesn't (or shouldn't) matter if that person is male or female. However, if you have these rights distributed to multiple people with possibly conflicting opinions and interests, it becomes a mess and doesn't work.
 
2012-05-09 02:58:56 PM  
The real lesson here: GET OFF YOUR ASSES AND FRIGGIN' VOTE ALREADY!
 
2012-05-09 02:59:02 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: "I have to tell you that over the course of several years as I have talked to friends and family and neighbors when I think about members of my own staff who are in incredibly committed monogamous relationships, same-sex relationships, who are raising kids together, when I think about those soldiers or airmen or marines or sailors who are out there fighting on my behalf and yet feel constrained, even now that Don't Ask Don't Tell is gone, because they are not able to commit themselves in a marriage, at a certain point I've just concluded that for me personally it is important for me to go ahead and affirm that I think same sex couples should be able to get married," Obama told Roberts, in an interview to appear on ABC's "Good Morning America" Thursday. Excerpts of the interview will air tonight on ABC's "World News with Diane Sawyer." Link

Stream at 3PM ET. Link


YES
 
2012-05-09 02:59:10 PM  

qorkfiend: HeartBurnKid: That'd be the very definition of a leader taking a right stance instead of a politically-expedient one, showing principle, integrity, and conviction, and that's something I always love to see.

It doesn't hurt that the right stance also happens to be politically expedient, though.


You really think that being a gay marriage supporter is going to be politically expedient? Far from it.
 
2012-05-09 02:59:17 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: Aarontology: See, here's teh thing. If Obama comes out in favor of this, it's going to cause the right to react.

The teabaggers, being the reactionary lunatics that they are will not be satisfied with Romney's opposition to gay marriage, or his proposed hatemendment banning gay marriage.

They're going to want something even more extreme than that, like the reinstatement of sodomy bans, or banning gay people from coming out, or something like that. They're going to get even crazier, driving moderates and independents away.

While someone may not like marriage equality, they're also not going to be on board with the inevitable hatefest that comes from the GOP

Very good point.

He's basically turning the tables on them. Rather than use a social issue in a negative fashion to drive voters to the polls like Bush/Rove did, he's coming out on the positive side of the issue in order to drag the backwards farks into the light of day so everyone can see them for what they are and be repulsed. And yep, with Romney as the nominee you just know he'll go along with them the entire way since he simply can't win without them.


Bonus: any time Romney has to spend on talking about social issues in the general election is time wasted for him.
 
2012-05-09 02:59:21 PM  

suthrnrunt: and I think we could start calling them "Obiden" after they get married.



Old joke from 2008:

Obama Joe Biden? Sounds like the name of a Jedi knight.
 
2012-05-09 02:59:27 PM  
 
2012-05-09 02:59:32 PM  

Teiritzamna: Article IV, Section 1:
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.

Sadly DOMA is bullshiat, but it does not fall afoul of the FF&C. Congress gets to decide what gets full faith and credit, and in DOMA they did. Pricks.


No--read the bold phrases in context. Congress' role there is a purely minesterial function (regulating "the manner" in which the states laws are to "be proved"). That clause doesn't give Congress the broad power to carve out substantive exceptions to the FF&C clause. If that's what the founders had wanted, they would've said so explicitly, as they did in other clauses of the Constitution--for example as in Article III, about federal appellate court jurisdiction:

In all cases affecting ambassadors, other public ministers and consuls, and those in which a state shall be party, the Supreme Court shall have original jurisdiction. In all the other cases before mentioned, the Supreme Court shall have appellate jurisdiction, both as to law and fact, with such exceptions, and under such regulations as the Congress shall make.
 
2012-05-09 02:59:52 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Why Would I Read the Article: He's also finally making the rounds on colleges to get the young vote after he spent 4 years doing absolutely nothing to either help kids get to college, or afford it.

Other than 2010 student loan reform which removed banks as a middle man saving the government about $68B over 10 years which will be put right back into providing more student loans, sure, he's done nothing.


You know Congress wants to repeal the Prevention and Public Health Fund and give all of that money to the federal student loans programs....wow, let's throw sick people to the curb cuz some dumb kids cannot budget and repay their student loans properly. Makes sense......But I think that is a Republican sponsored effort anyway.
 
2012-05-09 03:00:36 PM  
this is fu*king awesome, breaking on NY times now.
 
2012-05-09 03:00:42 PM  

Shrugging Atlas: He's basically turning the tables on them. Rather than use a social issue in a negative fashion to drive voters to the polls like Bush/Rove did, he's coming out on the positive side of the issue in order to drag the backwards farks into the light of day so everyone can see them for what they are and be repulsed. And yep, with Romney as the nominee you just know he'll go along with them the entire way since he simply can't win without them.


Exactly. It will force Romney to abandon the teabaggers and lose their support or embrace them and drive away moderates. Look how apeshiat they went when it came to women's health care. That gave Obama a HUGE comfort zone when it comes to moderates and independents.

I doubt very many of them are going to say "Well, I like that I/my wife/daughter/mother/etc has access to health care, but the gays might be a deal breaker"
 
2012-05-09 03:01:19 PM  
Just showed him saying he supported it, aweesomenesses
 
2012-05-09 03:01:44 PM  

So much for Gay Republicans saying Romney and other GOPers have the same LGBT rights stances as Obama.

- Karl Frisch (@KarlFrisch) May 9, 2012


boom
 
2012-05-09 03:02:41 PM  

But there's also this...

Not to be a party-pooper, but Obama just endorsed the Cheney "states can discriminate" federalism on marriage equality. So what NC just did.

- AdamSerwer (@AdamSerwer) May 9, 2012
 
2012-05-09 03:02:51 PM  
Good for Obama. I'm donating a few bucks to his campaign tonight.
 
2012-05-09 03:03:45 PM  

Demonrats: Jim.Casy: I really hope this non-issue doesn't torpedo Obama's campaign. Why the heck would gay folks anybody want to live in North Carolina anyways? Who cares what they do? Move to a good state where people have their priorities in order.

Yes, move to Chicago where the county you will live in is $140 Billion in debt...


You realize that figure includes all pension liabilities and covers every government body in the county, right? The county itself is on the hook for about $18 billion, and Chicago (city plus schools) about $60 billion. Nominal GDP for the Chicago area is about $530 billion, so I'm not sure I see the problem.
 
2012-05-09 03:03:54 PM  

LockeOak: Obama: "Same-sex marriage should be legal."


Sure would be nice if that video actually played.
 
2012-05-09 03:04:19 PM  

Edsel: Bonus: any time Romney has to spend on talking about social issues in the general election is time wasted for him.


Honestly, for Romney it's at best just time wasted. More likely it winds up hurting him. He either reinforces the fact he's willing to do/say anything to cater to the far right, further scaring off women voters and people that were at worst neutral on the issue. Or he steps in it in a way that pisses off the uber conservatives who are already on edge with him being the nominee, making them that much more likely to either stay home on election day, or still vote for him but do nothing else such as donate time or money to help him win.
 
2012-05-09 03:04:22 PM  

keylock71: JackieRabbit: More, it will make the GOP attack him for coming down on the side of this issue that most Americans hold.

Looks like the Obama Administration is playing the GOP like a fiddle... again.


Yes, they are. They're quite good at this. I'd really hate to be Mitt Romney. Obama's going to have him for breakfast.
 
2012-05-09 03:04:25 PM  

what_now: Just keep quite until after the election, Obama.

The last thing you need is to organize the fundies into voting.

Sure, you'll still crush Romney, but at the cost of the senate? Or retaking the house? Or at the very least, at the cost of getting rid of some of the pants on head retarded house members?


I would actually be happier if he took a principled stand here knowing it would cost him some support. It's morally the right thing to do, and history would almost certainly judge him favorably for having the courage to take that hit.

That said, I am certain the WH internal polling is showing that this move is politically favorable. It wouldn't be happening otherwise.
 
2012-05-09 03:04:36 PM  

Descartes: Hopefully Obama will state a clear position that he is in favor of, and then everyone can get off his back.


i865.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-09 03:04:45 PM  
Great! He verbally endorses legalization! That's AWESOME!

However, what is he going to DO about it? Let's see an Act with gay marriage being made legal on a federal level.
 
2012-05-09 03:05:08 PM  
It's about time. And I'm getting out the popcorn as the right goes batshiat in ...3...2...1
 
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