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(Ann Arbor News)   Eastern Michigan University sees 12.4% increase in students taking remedial courses. Wait, almost HALF of them? That's unpossible   (annarbor.com) divider line 140
    More: Interesting, Eastern Michigan, Title IX, storm surges  
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4257 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2012 at 12:55 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-09 12:56:23 PM
Seems optimistic to me. I thought the entire student body flunked out.
 
2012-05-09 01:01:42 PM
How do you get into college when you do not have college level skills? Isn't that what a Junior College is for?
 
2012-05-09 01:02:13 PM
EMU sees 12.4 percent surge

Did the writer go to EMU? Looks more like a 358% surge to me.
 
2012-05-09 01:03:12 PM
*deep breath*
AMEEEERICA, AMEEEERICA,
Your problems lie with thee-
From politics to ignorance
And voter apathy
 
2012-05-09 01:03:17 PM

TheRedMonkey: How do you get into college when you do not have college level skills? Isn't that what a Junior College is for?


I thought you went to college to obtain college level skills. Silly me.
 
2012-05-09 01:04:05 PM
FTFA: "Rhonda Longworth, EMU's interim associate provost, said the increase is due to more students enrolling in college and students possibly being less prepared."

Ya think!?! Hell, half the kids coming out of HS these days aren't prepared to wipe their own asses, much less college.

When obvious is obvious, it's obvious.
 
2012-05-09 01:04:07 PM
I wonder if this also has to do with older students who have been out of high school for years now enrolling in college. I can see them especially having to maybe take remedial math courses after not using a lot of the math they learned in high school for years.
 
2012-05-09 01:04:29 PM
Can you get a G.E.D in law there?
 
2012-05-09 01:05:02 PM
I like that the headline has the keywords "storm surges" on this page. Evokes images of waves of undereducated students washing up on the shores...
 
2012-05-09 01:11:01 PM
When I went back to college after taking almost 10 years off between it and highschool, I had to take a remedial math course simply because, like I suspected back in highschool, I never used any of the Algebra or Calculus I learned in that period of time.
 
2012-05-09 01:11:59 PM

Benjimin_Dover: EMU sees 12.4 percent surge

Did the writer go to EMU? Looks more like a 358% surge to me.


Not if by "surge" they mean "increase." The new number is 358% of the old number, but it's a 258% increase. Standard GMAT/GRE/SAT trap answer.
 
2012-05-09 01:12:04 PM
So, MSU has a satellite campus in Ypsitucky to provide these remedial classes?
 
2012-05-09 01:12:55 PM
Btut hey, elected officials and know nothing parents having control over education for the first 18 years of life is such a good system right?

You want to fix education, give more funding in order to hire better teachers, then just say thank you when we do our jobs by challenging your little snowflake.
 
2012-05-09 01:13:26 PM
As a college-level instructor myself, I ask to be colored unsurprised. For a long while I was consistently flabbergasted at the depths of freshman ignorance, apathy, and lack of basic skills.

Knowing, for instance, that a complete sentence requires both a subject AND a verb is foreign to many of these kids.

Genuine surprise alights upon their faces when they learn the words "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal..." in fact do *not* appear in the US Constitution.

Consternation screws up their lips when they learn that yes, I really *did* mean it when my directions said if their essays did not meet the assigned four page minimum, they would receive zeroes.

So no. I don't weep for the future. I weep for the present.

/KIDS THESE DAYS!
//lawn. off.
 
2012-05-09 01:15:18 PM
If I remember right, remedial courses are those numbered below 100 and students are placed in them due to performance on tests like ACCUPLACER. Considering almost every 100 level course can be skipped by taking AP or CLEP tests, these are students that probably shouldn't be enrolled in four year universities and I question the validity of their high school diplomas.
 
2012-05-09 01:16:57 PM

historycat: Btut hey, elected officials and know nothing parents having control over education for the first 18 years of life is such a good system right?

You want to fix education, give more funding in order to hire better teachers, then just say thank you when we do our jobs by challenging your little snowflake.


Can you please provide a citation to a study which shows that increased public school funding results in better education? Also, if you could explain how the two highest funded districts in the country (New York and DC) have such horrible results, I'd be happy to hear that.
 
2012-05-09 01:17:13 PM
The percentage of Eastern Michigan University freshmen taking remedial courses jumped from 4.8 percent in 2004 to 17.2 percent in 2011

More than a third of incoming college students, about 35 percent, take at least one remedial course


Is that the national average? Doesn't that mean that EMU is doing BETTER than the national average if 17.2% is their remedial rate.

Also...

EMU sees 12.4 percent surge

Okay, so I get that 17.2 - 4.8 is 12.4. But this is really meaningless, except for reports that want inflammitory headlines. Comparing percentiles made of different sets of starting numbers is meaningless.

For instance (CSB warning), this just happened yesterday. My son received and award for having the most total Accelerated Reader points at his school at his grade level. He got a printed certificate and a hand shake. Some girl got the grand award, a gift certificate , award certificate and a cool trophy. Her accomplishment was that she scored 700% of her set goals. My son only scored about 120% of his set goal, but he had more total points than her. So the lesson I taught him is if they are scoring on how far you surpass your goal, rather than what you actually do, set your goals low. It was a good real life lesson on how percentages used without context are crap.
 
2012-05-09 01:17:27 PM
something something, devaluation of degrees, something something. The world needs ditch diggers, something something.
 
2012-05-09 01:17:59 PM

I'm Too Old For This Shiat: If I remember right, remedial courses are those numbered below 100 and students are placed in them due to performance on tests like ACCUPLACER. Considering almost every 100 level course can be skipped by taking AP or CLEP tests, these are students that probably shouldn't be enrolled in four year universities and I question the validity of their high school diplomas.


AP classes aren't high school level classes. That's kind of the point.
 
2012-05-09 01:20:14 PM

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Benjimin_Dover: EMU sees 12.4 percent surge

Did the writer go to EMU? Looks more like a 358% surge to me.

Not if by "surge" they mean "increase." The new number is 358% of the old number, but it's a 258% increase. Standard GMAT/GRE/SAT trap answer.


Damn my head maths. I was indeed referring to the surge part though.
 
2012-05-09 01:21:21 PM
Yeah, people at EMU (undergraduates at least) aren't the brightest bunch. They go to a shiatty school that requires them to live in Ypsilanti. That pretty much sums them up.
 
2012-05-09 01:21:38 PM

I'm Too Old For This Shiat: If I remember right, remedial courses are those numbered below 100 and students are placed in them due to performance on tests like ACCUPLACER. Considering almost every 100 level course can be skipped by taking AP or CLEP tests, these are students that probably shouldn't be enrolled in four year universities and I question the validity of their high school diplomas.


Our schools no longer teach kids to learn.
They teach kids to memorize answers until the next test. Than you forget those answers and memorize the next set of answers for the next test.

Take the problem I had for math as an example. This was over 10 years ago, but the problem has gotten worse. Teachers force kids to solve math problems a certain way. Even though there might be several ways to answer the problem correctly, they want it done a certain way. It's also not explained why the problem is solved this way. It's all about memorizing a formula and plugging in numbers. The context of that formula is never explained.

Teachers are doing this because the standardized tests call from the problems this way.

I remember taking my first remedial math class in college. The teacher took the time to not only show us how to solve the problems in different ways, but he showed why they were being solved. It wasn't just a case of memorize formula, use formula, solve problem. It was understanding why that formula works, where that formula came from, and how to solve the problem even if you didn't know the formula.
 
2012-05-09 01:21:40 PM
The first thing we need to do is stop with this bullshiat that self-esteem is important in education. No it isn't. These snowflakes have more than enough self-esteem.

Simply the worst movement in Education since...like forever.
 
2012-05-09 01:21:40 PM
17.5% of the student population is black non Hispanic.
 
2012-05-09 01:22:05 PM

Ambitwistor: Seems optimistic to me. I thought the entire student body flunked out.


Nah. They just take, on average, 7 years to graduate (that factoid was current back in '03 anyways.)

Referring to the article: The U of M doesn't offer remedial courses. Other schools are shuttering their remedial programs to save money. It makes sense that people would be enrolling at EMU to take the classes and then transfer out to wherever they really want to go. Just like people who can't get into EMU take a year or two at Washtenaw Community. (At least that's the plan so many of them profess to have... *schadenfreude*)

This is more an indictment of Michigan and Ohio's school system than anything else. Maybe they should spend less time on test prep and creationism.

Incidentally, my 4-year degree from EMU cost me less than a year at U of Phoenix, so that's pretty neat.
 
2012-05-09 01:22:15 PM

Taxes to Fight the Axis: Yeah, people at EMU (undergraduates at least) aren't the brightest bunch. They go to a shiatty school that requires them to live in Ypsilanti. That pretty much sums them up.


Wow. The amount of sanctimonious, rich, white privilege behind your comment is utterly astounding
 
2012-05-09 01:22:29 PM
I went to EMU. Anything is possible in Ypsitucky.
 
2012-05-09 01:23:45 PM

meanmutton: I'm Too Old For This Shiat: If I remember right, remedial courses are those numbered below 100 and students are placed in them due to performance on tests like ACCUPLACER. Considering almost every 100 level course can be skipped by taking AP or CLEP tests, these are students that probably shouldn't be enrolled in four year universities and I question the validity of their high school diplomas.

AP classes aren't high school level classes. That's kind of the point.


And my point was that if they can't pass an ACCUPLACER test to get into ENG101, their high school failed them and they don't need to be in a university.
 
2012-05-09 01:23:45 PM
I've never heard of a program adviser sticking some kid in a class he/she is totally unprepared for, eventually flunks out, and is forced to take a remedial course before 'trying it again.' I guess some kids go into it knowing their limitations, which is just fine.
 
2012-05-09 01:23:47 PM

ongbok: I wonder if this also has to do with older students who have been out of high school for years now enrolling in college. I can see them especially having to maybe take remedial math courses after not using a lot of the math they learned in high school for years.


I think this is a big part of it. Also, I'm pretty sure that EMU has a giant commuter student base. Who would want to live in Ypsitucky, right?

/born in UM's hospital
 
2012-05-09 01:23:48 PM

I'm Too Old For This Shiat: If I remember right, remedial courses are those numbered below 100 and students are placed in them due to performance on tests like ACCUPLACER. Considering almost every 100 level course can be skipped by taking AP or CLEP tests, these are students that probably shouldn't be enrolled in four year universities and I question the validity of their high school diplomas.


No need to question, I promise they came from shiatty high schools. EMU absorbs a LOT of kids from Flint and Detroit (which have god-awful schools). I'm not at all surprised that a lot of EMU students need remedial help. And you know what, that's fine. The type of student that EMU is serving just isn't ready for a place like UM, but that doesn't mean they're dumb. If it brings them along and makes up for their shiatty HS experience, good!
 
2012-05-09 01:24:23 PM
As a tenured professor at a world renowned university, I don't blame the students in the least. The university itself makes the introductory courses too large, too complex, and too demanding. In a blatant money grab, the university requires such meaningless courses as Introductory to Logic, English 100, and Remedial Math. The minds of our modern students do not function by the algorithms of the classics yet our universities continue to mold in the long ago past. If we are too become anything more than an anachronistic novelty, we need to update our course catalogs. Why are there no classes in text messaging, or social media, or heterosexual interaction with an emphasis on GHB? The universities are going to find themselves woefully out of business as modern online courses from institutions like Phoenix and Dave's College devour our market share of young minds. Frankly, we're dinosaurs facing extinction, which scares the hell out of us, so we point fingers at everyone but ourselves.
 
2012-05-09 01:24:25 PM
I took AP calculus AB in high school. We called it "remedial AP calculus"
 
2012-05-09 01:25:42 PM

TheRedMonkey: How do you get into college when you do not have college level skills? Isn't that what a Junior College is for?


this. When you lower your standards as much as colleges have done lately so you can fill in those 500 seat freshman classes... you aren't going to get the brightest bulbs in the pile.

Start lowering entering class sizes... Colleges shouldn't be a profit center, just a research center... Besides, have you *seen* the cost of hiring someone to dig you a ditch lately? Outrageous.
 
2012-05-09 01:25:49 PM

meanmutton: Can you please provide a citation to a study which shows that increased public school funding results in better education?


This! Surely the answer is to de-fund education altogether. Then we can all homeschool. After all, I can teach my kid about Jesus better than any socialist.
 
2012-05-09 01:26:25 PM

I_Can't_Believe_it's_not_Boutros: Benjimin_Dover: EMU sees 12.4 percent surge

Did the writer go to EMU? Looks more like a 358% surge to me.

Not if by "surge" they mean "increase." The new number is 358% of the old number, but it's a 258% increase. Standard GMAT/GRE/SAT trap answer.


Well, its all meaningless if you don't know what comprises the percentile of each set.

While EMU most likely did not lose enrollment,

Lets say in 2004 they had 10,000 incoming freshmen. That would mean 480 students had remedial classes.
So in 2011, say they reduced enrollement to 2800. That would mean about 480 students had remedial classes.

Oh no, people are getting stupid! Or maybe the school has to take 480 sub-standard students each year.

The problem is we don't know what the original numbers are. I would assume that 2011 had much higher enrollment than 2004, most likely due to reduced adminission requirements, which means more students need remedial classes.

The whole thing is nonsense.
 
2012-05-09 01:27:07 PM
In other news, universities now offer remedial classes.
 
2012-05-09 01:27:51 PM
Not surprising. The need for a college degree in order to get a job is forcing kids with no business or interest in learning to go to college. And really it's up to the colleges to avoid lowering their academic standards for them instead of just kicking them out if they can't cut it
 
2012-05-09 01:28:53 PM

Taxes to Fight the Axis: Yeah, people at EMU (undergraduates at least) aren't the brightest bunch. They go to a shiatty school that requires them to live in Ypsilanti. That pretty much sums them up.


If you went through the Detroit public school system as from K-12, and went to a better school than EMU, then you are free to make that comment. Otherwise, think long and hard about your judgement of others.
 
2012-05-09 01:30:07 PM

tbyte: Taxes to Fight the Axis: Yeah, people at EMU (undergraduates at least) aren't the brightest bunch. They go to a shiatty school that requires them to live in Ypsilanti. That pretty much sums them up.

Wow. The amount of sanctimonious, rich, white privilege behind your comment is utterly astounding


His profile says he lives in Detroit. 'nuff said.

Also, WSU sucks!

Here's a little gem for you all:

How many Michigan college students does it take to change a light bulb?

At Michigan State it takes two thousand. One to change the bulb, and the other one thousand nine hundred ninety nine to riot and set it on fire.

At Michigan it takes three. One to change it and the other two to talk about how they did it every bit as good as an ivy leaguer.

At Concordia it takes ten, one to change the bulb and the other nine to sit around and watch because it is the big entertainment of the evening.

At Ferris it takes zero. They are all too drunk from the night before to care whether or not the lights are on.

At Eastern it takes four. One to change the bulb, one to steal the new bulb from the store, one as a look out, and one to drive the getaway car.

At Central Michigan it takes nine. One to screw it in and the other eight just screw each other in celebration.

At Wayne State it takes zero. Who wants to be in Detroit after dark anyway?

At Western it takes twelve, two to figure out how to screw it in and ten other drunks to find an ugly enough lamp shade to match their school colors.

At Adrian it takes zero. There is no electricity in Adrian, only cows and corn.

At Northern it takes five. Four to strap on snow shoes and hike 10 miles to the nearest store to get the new bulb and one to screw it in.

At Michigan Tech and Kettering University it takes twenty. One to change the bulb and the other nineteen to find a new way to engineer it so it never has to be changed again.

At Hillsdale, Albion, and Kalamazoo it takes zero. They have Mommy and Daddy pay someone to do it for them.

At Saginaw Valley it takes five, one to bring the weed and four to smoke it while they all imagine they screwed it in.

At Oakland it takes zero, they can't afford light bulbs just like they cannot afford a football team.

At Macomb it takes zero, they live at home, mom and dad control the lights.
 
2012-05-09 01:30:11 PM
At least EMU is making them take the remedial classes. I had people in my MBA classes at Old Dominion who couldn't put together coherent powerpoint slides. If your bullet points have so many grammar and spelling mistakes as to render them incomprehensible, how in the world did you get into a graduate program at an accredited college?
 
2012-05-09 01:30:58 PM

axeeugene: As a college-level instructor myself, I ask to be colored unsurprised. For a long while I was consistently flabbergasted at the depths of freshman ignorance, apathy, and lack of basic skills.

Knowing, for instance, that a complete sentence requires both a subject AND a verb is foreign to many of these kids.

Genuine surprise alights upon their faces when they learn the words "We hold these truths to be self-evident: that all men are created equal..." in fact do *not* appear in the US Constitution.

Consternation screws up their lips when they learn that yes, I really *did* mean it when my directions said if their essays did not meet the assigned four page minimum, they would receive zeroes.

So no. I don't weep for the future. I weep for the present.

/KIDS THESE DAYS!
//lawn. off.


Personally, I'm grateful for their stupidity. Thanks to the recession, the unabashed greed of the rich, and the continued underrepresentation of the poor, I won't get to retire - but I will compete with, and easily win against, these farktards for future jobs.

Sometimes, what goes around, comes around - and, sometimes, you are what comes around.
 
2012-05-09 01:32:57 PM
I had to take remedial courses because the college made me, and they did it in an incredibly stupid way. I only went to Algebra 1 in high school. After I got out of the military and decided to go to college I had to start at Alg 1 again and work my way up to and through Calc. For some brilliant farking reason, even though Algebra is not hard at-farking-all, every single class - Algebra 1, Algebra 2, Pre-Calc, Trig, and Geom - leading up to Calc is a FULL F*CKING SEMESTER LONG. TWO F*CKING YEARS OF REMEDIAL MATH.

I wanted to stab my goddamn eyes out. And no, the college doesn't allow you to CLEP or otherwise "test out". They take your high school transcripts, then compare that to your accuplacer score, and put you in whichever is lower.

I think death by remediation is just a money-making scheme for underfunded schools.
 
2012-05-09 01:34:15 PM
Well, I've personally had a lot more success with EMU (and K-college) grads than the kids who go through UM, so all those remedial classes must be doing some good.
 
2012-05-09 01:35:02 PM

HMS_Blinkin: Taxes to Fight the Axis: Yeah, people at EMU (undergraduates at least) aren't the brightest bunch. They go to a shiatty school that requires them to live in Ypsilanti. That pretty much sums them up.

If you went through the Detroit public school system as from K-12, and went to a better school than EMU, then you are free to make that comment. Otherwise, think long and hard about your judgement of others.


Anyone who is junior level or above at EMU is open for judgement. EMU is fine if you're getting your grades up, but by your junior year at least aspire to jump to one of the better Michigan directionals. Or if you're a girl just go to Michigan Tech, they're desperate to lure women up there.

/hell EMU isn't even the best school in Ypsi
//WCC is
/although it might not be in the city limits, so I might be wrong
 
2012-05-09 01:35:21 PM

meanmutton: Can you please provide a citation to a study which shows that increased public school funding results in better education? Also, if you could explain how the two highest funded districts in the country (New York and DC) have such horrible results, I'd be happy to hear that.



The biggest problem is so much of the funding in education is not going to students or teachers. It's going to administrators, it's going to paying the ever increasing costs of healthcare for education workers, it goes ever increasing maintenance costs on school buildings as the lowest bidder cheapest buildings start biting us in the ass as they start falling down, it goes to more and more testing days, it goes to trying to force all students to learn at the same pace and the same subjects.


We need to overhaul our education system in many ways.
First we need to bring back the arts. Holding kids nose to the grindstone forcing them to learn nothing but math, science, and english all day doesn't work. It doesn't make kids excited for school. Taking arts also improves test scores. Link

We need to cut overhead costs. There Administrators suck up a lot of money that goes to education. Like CEO pay their salary has been increasing far outside the salaries of teachers. They justify those salaries by implementing unnecessary and expensive changes.

Stop trying to force all kids to learn the same thing, the same way, at the same rate. Some kids learn differently. Some kids don't want to learn. Forcing everyone on the same page just slows everyone down. At highschool start offering more than just college prep courses we currently offer. Open up more trade skill training. We are going to need lots of nurses in the coming decades. Highschool students can learn a lot of those skills starting at 16 and have a great career quickly out of high school.

We need to change school schedule. The 3 month summer break is outdated. We should switch to a 4 day a week school schedule with smaller, more frequent breaks instead of lumping them all together. This will keep kids fresh and it you don't end up wasting 1/4 of a semester just trying to get everyone caught back up after they forgot everything over the summer..
 
2012-05-09 01:35:39 PM

dragonchild: meanmutton: Can you please provide a citation to a study which shows that increased public school funding results in better education?

This! Surely the answer is to de-fund education altogether. Then we can all homeschool. After all, I can teach my kid about Jesus better than any socialist.


You have convinced me. I am right now typing up a constituional amendment that mandates that every student should have a million dolars (constant dollars tied to today) spent on them.
 
2012-05-09 01:36:31 PM
Look up Math 10 on the Temple Univ course offerings - then start RFLOL
 
2012-05-09 01:37:16 PM

HMS_Blinkin: Taxes to Fight the Axis: Yeah, people at EMU (undergraduates at least) aren't the brightest bunch. They go to a shiatty school that requires them to live in Ypsilanti. That pretty much sums them up.

If you went through the Detroit public school system as from K-12, and went to a better school than EMU, then you are free to make that comment. Otherwise, think long and hard about your judgement of others.


I went to school in a Detroit suburb with excellent public schools and graduated from a better university. It feels pretty good actually, the looking down on others part.

/it's the American way
 
2012-05-09 01:38:02 PM

ha-ha-guy: HMS_Blinkin: Taxes to Fight the Axis: Yeah, people at EMU (undergraduates at least) aren't the brightest bunch. They go to a shiatty school that requires them to live in Ypsilanti. That pretty much sums them up.

If you went through the Detroit public school system as from K-12, and went to a better school than EMU, then you are free to make that comment. Otherwise, think long and hard about your judgement of others.

Anyone who is junior level or above at EMU is open for judgement. EMU is fine if you're getting your grades up, but by your junior year at least aspire to jump to one of the better Michigan directionals. Or if you're a girl just go to Michigan Tech, they're desperate to lure women up there.

/hell EMU isn't even the best school in Ypsi
//WCC is
/although it might not be in the city limits, so I might be wrong


Recruiting for snow cows?
 
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