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(Forbes)   Don't go to law school, it's time to drop the fries, and 26 other things new college grads should know   (forbes.com) divider line 299
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23397 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2012 at 10:02 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-09 09:17:55 AM  
Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)
 
2012-05-09 09:42:41 AM  
Yes, the proper thing is to accept the place the Baby Boomers have decided for you and stop trying to make yourself better.
 
2012-05-09 09:51:42 AM  

RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)


Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.
 
2012-05-09 10:02:05 AM  
English-speaking cities such as Hong Kong and Singapore, especially, have almost no unemployment and quickly absorb anyone qualified who lands on their shores.

This is just not true. I and some of my friends have been looking for jobs in HK for a while - the economy there is not great right now. It's ok, but hardly booming.
 
2012-05-09 10:04:28 AM  

Rincewind53: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.


However you cut it (and I didn't go to a great law school, but whatever), you're going to come out of it with a lot of debt, an overglutted market, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.
 
2012-05-09 10:06:56 AM  

RexTalionis: Rincewind53: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.

However you cut it (and I didn't go to a great law school, but whatever), you're going to come out of it with a lot of debt, an overglutted market, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.


That's true. I just meant that the people saying "If you go to law school, you will not get a job, your life will be terrible" are exaggerating.
 
2012-05-09 10:07:44 AM  

Rincewind53: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.


Correction: Only go to law school if you are actually interested in practicing law and are ok with making $40,000 as a public defender or county prosecutor. If you're hoping to practice law to make big money, you're likely to be disappointed.
 
2012-05-09 10:08:09 AM  
Number 6: So easy! Why didn't I think of that one!
 
2012-05-09 10:08:39 AM  

Rincewind53: Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.


That's the real issue. People go to these third tier law schools and are shocked to discover that they're not getting six figure starting offers from big city law firms. It's a combination of a lack of common sense and law schools cooking the books on post-graduation employment data.
 
2012-05-09 10:09:16 AM  

AKTurkey: Rincewind53: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.

Correction: Only go to law school if you are actually interested in practicing law and are ok with making $40,000 as a public defender or county prosecutor. If you're hoping to practice law to make big money, you're likely to be disappointed.


Yep. That's my job this summer.
 
2012-05-09 10:09:59 AM  

thornhill: Rincewind53: Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.

That's the real issue. People go to these third tier law schools and are shocked to discover that they're not getting six figure starting offers from big city law firms. It's a combination of a lack of common sense and law schools cooking the books on post-graduation employment data.


Uh, it's not only third tier law schools facing this problem.

/attend a top 10
//only about 40% of class is getting into big law these days
 
2012-05-09 10:10:30 AM  
Well a few good points and they made the big one:
1. Stay debt free as long as possible, ignore this advice and you will be a wage slave and be subject to the whims of management.
2. Stay the hell away from Medicine too.
3. It would not hurt to go into engineering, it can be more satisfying than other careers. Then learn how to code and test and solve word problems.
4. Do not let the women you love go into nursing, it will psychologically destroy them.
5. Stay away from banking, they not only eat their young, but also the old and those who appear weak. If Darth Vader were real he would be middle management for a large bank.
 
2012-05-09 10:11:02 AM  
Go to law school, all those people are just jealous they didn't go.
 
2012-05-09 10:11:23 AM  
Creating a Google Alert for your own name? That sounds both narcissistic and paranoid, and yet I just did it.
 
2012-05-09 10:12:58 AM  
It's a whore and gangster economy kids.
Don't kid yourselves otherwise.
 
2012-05-09 10:13:09 AM  
FTFA: 7. Be annoyingly proactive to land your first job. Don't just send a CV, but follow up with a phone call, and give the person that answers examples of how you will actually help their organization.

If you're going for your first job, you don't know how you will actually help their organization. So, when you try to tell them how you're going to help their organization, it makes you look kind of naive... and silly.
 
2012-05-09 10:13:10 AM  
Work hard, stay positive (and realistic), realize you arent going to land your dream job right out of school.

Im pulling for you. We are all in this together.
 
2012-05-09 10:13:49 AM  

AKTurkey: Correction: Only go to law school if you are actually interested in practicing law and are ok with making $40,000 as a public defender or county prosecutor. If you're hoping to practice law to make big money, you're likely to be disappointed.


I like this advice. It's non-scumbag.

Other than that, I gotta say that conformity to the norm isn't all it's cracked up to be. But the world needs it's lawyers, accountants, ditch diggers. I mean, if EVERYONE became non-conformists then there would be trouble caused by the non-conformity.
 
2012-05-09 10:14:18 AM  

RexTalionis: Rincewind53: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.

However you cut it (and I didn't go to a great law school, but whatever), you're going to come out of it with a lot of debt, an overglutted market, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.


I'd still recommend it for engineers, provided they go evenings and work full-time as patent agents. Then you come out with no debt, a guaranteed job, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.
 
2012-05-09 10:14:38 AM  

DamnYankees: English-speaking cities such as Hong Kong and Singapore, especially, have almost no unemployment and quickly absorb anyone qualified who lands on their shores.

This is just not true. I and some of my friends have been looking for jobs in HK for a while - the economy there is not great right now. It's ok, but hardly booming.


But the Chinese will welcome you with open arms and integrate you into their society with warmth and love while making sure you get the job you deserve with pay you need....

Sorry did I say that with a strait face? Ok how about "the chinese will at best put you in a PR job at the front desk as their on staff gwailo to show that they have western connections."

I get the feeling that the advice from this article is worth the electrons its imprinted on.
 
2012-05-09 10:14:46 AM  
17. Open your wallet. Take out your credit cards. Now cut them up and never use them again. You'll thank me in ten years.

This is just really stupid. Having a large line of credit is extremely useful. The lesson should be: don't put more on your credit card then you can completely pay back in less than 2 months.
 
2012-05-09 10:14:49 AM  
Don't go to law school grad school, it's time to drop the fries, and 26 other things new college grads should know

FTFY. Unless you have a very specific career goal in a field that has a lot of well paying jobs and requires the degree (so med school is okay, veterinary school, dentistry, etc.), it's very rarely going to be worth your time to do it right out of undergrad. DEFINITELY don't do it just because you don't know what else to do with your life, or pretty soon you'll be 31, still working on your dissertation, and realizing that you made a big mistake about a decade ago that you're never really going to make up in terms of career advancement / earning potential.

/speaks from experience
//the heavy drinking was fun for the first two or three years though
 
2012-05-09 10:15:30 AM  

Theaetetus: a wicked drinking problem


I think this is pretty much the commonality that binds 85-90% of law students.
 
2012-05-09 10:15:34 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: It's a whore and gangster economy kids.
Don't kid yourselves otherwise.


Fortunately I have a degree in Whore from Dalhousie.
 
2012-05-09 10:15:38 AM  
Rather - don't go to law school straight out of college with no plan or knowledge of the field.

Instead, get a job in a law office as a clerk, paralegal, whatever and learn how the sausage is made. Then apply to the in-state school that everyone in the local professional community likes the best, work while taking classes, and have a post-graduation job lined up by the end of your first year.
 
2012-05-09 10:16:11 AM  

GAT_00: Yes, the proper thing is to accept the place the Baby Boomers have decided for you and stop trying to make yourself better.


That's what my dad thinks. They have mainly assumed an authoritarian mindset to protect their piece of the pie. Boomers are the new fascists.
 
2012-05-09 10:16:12 AM  
Once-a-year get-togethers with your college buddies? How long can that last? I think the person who wrote that just wanted to brag about his "olympics", and has done it maybe 2 or 3 times. Just wait buddy, they'll start dropping out soon. Hopefully you'll end up with the trophy, I guess.
 
2012-05-09 10:16:32 AM  

Theaetetus: RexTalionis: Rincewind53: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.

However you cut it (and I didn't go to a great law school, but whatever), you're going to come out of it with a lot of debt, an overglutted market, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.

I'd still recommend it for engineers, provided they go evenings and work full-time as patent agents. Then you come out with no debt, a guaranteed job, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.


Oh jesus, yes. I know a couple of people are intending to go into patent law, both of them former engineers. Even before finals in first year are over, they essentially already have offers for 6 figure jobs.
 
2012-05-09 10:16:33 AM  

orclover: Sorry did I say that with a strait face? Ok how about "the chinese will at best put you in a PR job at the front desk as their on staff gwailo to show that they have western connections."


Not me! I look too Chinesey!

/Good thing I've got family connections instead, if I ever opt for that, which I won't.
 
2012-05-09 10:17:02 AM  
Study history so you can see what things were like before everything was completely farked.

Daydream about having a high-paying job with benefits straight out of high school, where you can work all your life and support a family, while you stand in line for food stamps and fill out your application for a part-time cashier job at McDonalds, knowing they're just going to reject you as overqualified.
 
2012-05-09 10:17:18 AM  

thornhill: 17. Open your wallet. Take out your credit cards. Now cut them up and never use them again. You'll thank me in ten years.

This is just really stupid. Having a large line of credit is extremely useful. The lesson should be: don't put more on your credit card then you can completely pay back in less than 2 months.


Jesus, I didnt even get that far. This person is an idiot. Ignore this entire article.
 
2012-05-09 10:17:29 AM  

RexTalionis: Theaetetus: a wicked drinking problem

I think this is pretty much the commonality that binds 85-90% of law students.


Is it a drinking problem if I'm the one who stops after 3 hours and leaves to go home while the others stay at the bar?

/if you have to ask...
 
2012-05-09 10:17:29 AM  
Kids, I probably don't need to point out that these pearls of wisdom are coming from staff writers. These are folks who write for a living, but claim they're "experts" about these other fields. Keep that in mind when trying to decide how much of their advice you need to take seriously.
 
2012-05-09 10:17:30 AM  

Rincewind53: Theaetetus: RexTalionis: Rincewind53: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.

However you cut it (and I didn't go to a great law school, but whatever), you're going to come out of it with a lot of debt, an overglutted market, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.

I'd still recommend it for engineers, provided they go evenings and work full-time as patent agents. Then you come out with no debt, a guaranteed job, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.

Oh jesus, yes. I know a couple of people are intending to go into patent law, both of them former engineers. Even before finals in first year are over, they essentially already have offers for 6 figure jobs.


Patent attorneys and agents - there's only, what, about 25,000 of us active at any given time? The field is tiny and the demand is huge.
 
2012-05-09 10:19:08 AM  

AKTurkey: thornhill: Rincewind53: Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.

That's the real issue. People go to these third tier law schools and are shocked to discover that they're not getting six figure starting offers from big city law firms. It's a combination of a lack of common sense and law schools cooking the books on post-graduation employment data.

Uh, it's not only third tier law schools facing this problem.

/attend a top 10
//only about 40% of class is getting into big law these days


If you went to a top 10 you're still a lot better off than all of the non-top 10 folks. You'll still get better clerkships. The third tier people are pretty much screwed.
 
2012-05-09 10:19:19 AM  

imontheinternet: Study history so you can see what things were like before everything was completely farked.

Daydream about having a high-paying job with benefits straight out of high school, where you can work all your life and support a family, while you stand in line for food stamps and fill out your application for a part-time cashier job at McDonalds, knowing they're just going to reject you as overqualified.


This.
 
2012-05-09 10:21:44 AM  

thornhill: AKTurkey: thornhill: Rincewind53: Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.

That's the real issue. People go to these third tier law schools and are shocked to discover that they're not getting six figure starting offers from big city law firms. It's a combination of a lack of common sense and law schools cooking the books on post-graduation employment data.

Uh, it's not only third tier law schools facing this problem.

/attend a top 10
//only about 40% of class is getting into big law these days

If you went to a top 10 you're still a lot better off than all of the non-top 10 folks. You'll still get better clerkships. The third tier people are pretty much screwed.


Yeah, when I said bad, I meant third-tier places like Thomas Cooley. I mean, sure, you may get a job, you may enjoy your job, and you may eventually make a bunch of money at it. As with pretty much all schools, if you're number one, or if you have connections, you'll do fine. But in this economy the chances are not good, and it's statistically better to try for another career.
 
2012-05-09 10:22:04 AM  
I graduated law school ten years ago and finally got to the point where my future was certain about five months ago (hence my SN). If you really love the practice of law (like I do), it is worth working around the clock in mundane stuff so you can finally get a chance at a good life a decade later.

About 95% of the people I went to law school with did not fall into this category. I have seen suicides. I have seen people give up and teach third graders. I have seen people pack up all of their stuff and move to Reno to become professional gamblers. I have seen people become institutionalized. I have seen people burn out and spend their time performing magic tricks in the park.

I am not saying never do it. But don't do it because you want to be like people on television. Don't do it to impress your friends and your family. Don't do it because you think you need a grad degree and don't want to do math.

Just like anything, don't choose it because what other people think you do every day. Do it because you like what you do every day. If you are not completely convinced when you make the decision, do something else.
 
2012-05-09 10:22:19 AM  

RexTalionis: Rincewind53: Theaetetus: RexTalionis: Rincewind53: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.

However you cut it (and I didn't go to a great law school, but whatever), you're going to come out of it with a lot of debt, an overglutted market, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.

I'd still recommend it for engineers, provided they go evenings and work full-time as patent agents. Then you come out with no debt, a guaranteed job, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.

Oh jesus, yes. I know a couple of people are intending to go into patent law, both of them former engineers. Even before finals in first year are over, they essentially already have offers for 6 figure jobs.

Patent attorneys and agents - there's only, what, about 25,000 of us active at any given time? The field is tiny and the demand is huge.


This. Normal law hiring vs IP hiring is like trying to get a job as a state department translator with knowledge of french and german vs knowledge of arabic and mandarin. Both are useful, both are difficult to learn, but one is a bit harder and far more marketable.
 
2012-05-09 10:22:29 AM  

thornhill: 17. Open your wallet. Take out your credit cards. Now cut them up and never use them again. You'll thank me in ten years.

This is just really stupid. Having a large line of credit is extremely useful. The lesson should be: don't put more on your credit card then you can completely pay back in less than 2 months.


Agree that it's incredibly stupid advice. Credit cards are too necessary to navigate modern society to go without. Some places no longer even accept personal checks, and carrying cash in sufficient amounts to cover an emergency (e.g. the cost of an emergency flight home, if you travel) has its own risks.
 
2012-05-09 10:22:46 AM  

Port1080: Don't go to grad school


This.

/but now my name shows up on google scholar
//on an arcane subject of no practical importance
///geology may be important, but what I studied sure wasn't
////thanks NASA grant
 
2012-05-09 10:24:54 AM  
4. Encourage well-wishers to buy you Facebook stock.

The pump and dump is on!
 
2012-05-09 10:25:06 AM  
I stopped considering law school when I took a free practice LSAT from kaplan or whoever. The proctor gave this big time sharey speech after the test to get us to sign up for his course. He said he knew all the tricks better than anyone, since he had a 170+ on his and had already gone through law school.

Yeah, he had his JD and was teaching undergrads how to prepare for the LSAT. That was his full time gig.
 
2012-05-09 10:25:09 AM  

rev. dave: 4. Do not let the women you love go into nursing, it will psychologically destroy them.


SOO TRUE!!!!!
/flamed out of nursing school after one year
//still tending to the burns
 
2012-05-09 10:25:45 AM  
Go to trade school instead. Learn a marketable, in demand skill that pays well and won't saddle you with a ton of college debt-like AC/heating repair, welding, diesel mechanic , electrician, plumber, electronics tech etc. People who can fix things will alwasy be in demand.

dsc.discovery.com
 
2012-05-09 10:25:50 AM  

YixilTesiphon: Port1080: Don't go to grad school

This.

/but now my name shows up on google scholar
//on an arcane subject of no practical importance
///geology may be important, but what I studied sure wasn't
////thanks NASA grant


What did you study? Space dust?
 
2012-05-09 10:25:54 AM  
I'm sorry but do people actually still use LinkedIn? There's no less than 3 tips there regarding it.
 
2012-05-09 10:26:42 AM  

Nurglitch: HotIgneous Intruder: It's a whore and gangster economy kids.
Don't kid yourselves otherwise.

Fortunately I have a degree in Whore from Dalhousie.


Wouldn't it make better sense to have a degree in ass-raping, since Dal usually ass-rapes its students? Of course, Dal just sucks.

/Acadia and UWO grad
//Supposed to hate Dal on principle
///also hates Dal because they rejected me for their MLIS program, despite going above and beyond their requirements
////Come to think of it, no one who graduated from Acadia the same time I did was able to get into Dal for any program
 
2012-05-09 10:27:23 AM  

hasty ambush: Go to trade school instead. Learn a marketable, in demand skill that pays well and won't saddle you with a ton of college debt-like AC/heating repair, welding, diesel mechanic , electrician, plumber, electronics tech etc. People who can fix things will alwasy be in demand.

[dsc.discovery.com image 324x205]


That picture, and his expression, makes him look a bit like David Bowie with a mullet. And that's a terrifying thought.
 
2012-05-09 10:27:26 AM  

theorangeshield: I'm sorry but do people actually still use LinkedIn? There's no less than 3 tips there regarding it.


I think people in PR and marketing use it to market themselves to each other. Otherwise...?
 
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