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(Forbes)   Don't go to law school, it's time to drop the fries, and 26 other things new college grads should know   (forbes.com) divider line 299
    More: Interesting, law schools  
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23395 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2012 at 10:02 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-09 12:28:43 PM

Mawson of the Antarctic: Is it me, or did the article read like a list of how to be social and bro/sis out with your friends because they'll give you jobs? I hate lists like these because it tells me that introverted individuals, like myself, will die jobless and alone unlike those golden-child extroverts.


I totally feel that, being a complete and utter introvert. However, what I'm learning is that you really DO have to go out and join SOMETHING. I don't think it has to be sports. I've met people at knitting groups and from my roller derby league and classes I've taken for fun at community college. You really do have to try to get out there.
 
2012-05-09 12:30:12 PM

Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: If you want to know why I think its true, change the search settings in USAjobs to jobs for federal employees and watch the number of open jobs double.

That may be true, but when I initially started the search the number of open ranger jobs in the most crescent recesses of the balls of the country were at "need lots," "need lots," need lots." I doubt "needing a whole lot of lots" would've changed the landscape.

*blinks* You have no clue how the federal job process works do you? Go to washington post's website, they have some general information about it. or the Partnership for Public Service has good information.

the feds have a whole process in who they are allowed to hire, no matter whether they "advertise" a job or not. its not like private industry, you don't just put the job out there and hire someone.


It's not a matter of whether they ad the job; it's that I was deemed best qualified for it, repeatedly referred to the hiring office, and then was rejected. If you're claiming that's because I was not already a federal employee filling out forms, you sound like a conspiracy theorist.
 
2012-05-09 12:33:16 PM

kukukupo: thornhill: 17. Open your wallet. Take out your credit cards. Now cut them up and never use them again. You'll thank me in ten years.

This is just really stupid. Having a large line of credit is extremely useful. The lesson should be: don't put more on your credit card then you can completely pay back in less than 2 months.

There is absolutely no need for a credit card. The wife and I never used one and we had good enough 'credit' to buy a house and a car. If you get an apartment and make rent payments and start paying utilities you won't need a credit card.


Who said anything about a need? I use an Amazon.com credit card. I get 1 point per dollar spent, 3 points if I use it to buy stuff from Amazon. 1 point earned = 1 cent earned. That means I'm effectively earning at least 1% interest on the money I spend. That's more than the 0.85% I'm currently earning on the money in my savings account. Providing you are able to create a budget and stick to it, it can actually be profitable to use a credit card.

/pay my bill completely every month
 
2012-05-09 12:36:54 PM
I just want to take the opportunity to thank all of my fellow Fark lawyers for this thread. Just reading the comments has made my day, knowing that I am not alone in my struggles.

We should get T-shirts or something.
 
2012-05-09 12:36:55 PM

Gabrielmot:
The job sites, monster and dice for example are lame. -This is from several recruiters I spoke with. Basically the recruiter has to pay to post the jobs there, whereas with Linked-In it's free. So basically you get first cut if you look for jobs through Linked-In. Jobs only hit Monster and Dice when they can't find someone on Linked-In. In fact, if you are in the right groups (and your resume doesn't suck) you'll have recruiters contact you without having to lift a finger.


Cool Story Bro time: When I had 'software engineer' as my job title on LinkedIn, I'd have recruiters contacting me WEEKLY through the site. It almost started getting annoying! One day I changed my job title to 'software product manager' without changing a single other thing. The recruiter contacts dropped to zero overnight.

So I learned two things: 1. The shortage of software engineers is real. And 2. Apparently, software these days simply leaps from the engineers' fingertips directly on to store shelves as a product, without the need of someone to manage the production of it.
 
2012-05-09 12:40:30 PM

Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: If you want to know why I think its true, change the search settings in USAjobs to jobs for federal employees and watch the number of open jobs double.

That may be true, but when I initially started the search the number of open ranger jobs in the most crescent recesses of the balls of the country were at "need lots," "need lots," need lots." I doubt "needing a whole lot of lots" would've changed the landscape.

*blinks* You have no clue how the federal job process works do you? Go to washington post's website, they have some general information about it. or the Partnership for Public Service has good information.

the feds have a whole process in who they are allowed to hire, no matter whether they "advertise" a job or not. its not like private industry, you don't just put the job out there and hire someone.


Um, yeah, those talk about the new hiring category process, which is already plain when you apply. You don't actually know what you're talking about, do you?
 
2012-05-09 12:45:22 PM

RexTalionis: Bontesla: Boston Legal is a myth.

Yeah, seriously, no hot chicks are trying to hump me on a daily basis.


And the Denny Crane's trying to sex you make it difficult to get things done. The answer is no - even if you ask politely this time.
 
2012-05-09 12:52:11 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: If you want to know why I think its true, change the search settings in USAjobs to jobs for federal employees and watch the number of open jobs double.

That may be true, but when I initially started the search the number of open ranger jobs in the most crescent recesses of the balls of the country were at "need lots," "need lots," need lots." I doubt "needing a whole lot of lots" would've changed the landscape.

*blinks* You have no clue how the federal job process works do you? Go to washington post's website, they have some general information about it. or the Partnership for Public Service has good information.

the feds have a whole process in who they are allowed to hire, no matter whether they "advertise" a job or not. its not like private industry, you don't just put the job out there and hire someone.

Um, yeah, those talk about the new hiring category process, which is already plain when you apply. You don't actually know what you're talking about, do you?


I'm trying to find something that actually bothers to explain it, but here's how it works.

Federal agency puts out a job announcement, often both to internal and external candidates. Officially the "rule of 3" is gone, and the new category system is in place. Based on those job announcements, HR provides a list of people and how qualified they are for the job (based on each announcement). The new rules state that you can hire anyone in the best qualified list, but in most circumstances you're constrained by various hiring preferences: veterans, displaced feds, disabled, are the big ones.

they're working on modernizing the system, but the effect is that for many of the jobs that seem awesome with the feds, you have to take a boring job to get to that, or just get damn lucky, orbe a veteran.
 
2012-05-09 12:52:58 PM

lincoln65: I stopped considering law school when I took a free practice LSAT from kaplan or whoever. The proctor gave this big time sharey speech after the test to get us to sign up for his course. He said he knew all the tricks better than anyone, since he had a 170+ on his and had already gone through law school.

Yeah, he had his JD and was teaching undergrads how to prepare for the LSAT. That was his full time gig.


Kaplan doesn't even pay that great, all things considered. They advertise $16 an hour for training time, then $30 an hour for class time when you're teaching, but ignore a couple hitches. The $16 an hour for training? It's actually $8- they give you an hour of prep time for each hour of training. Most days, mine took 2 for each- that magic $16/hr became $5.33. Same for class time. You got $15/hr to teach, and 1:1 prep time pay as well- so $30 for each hour of class, but the hour of teaching usually took 3 to prep for. $30/hr becomes $7.50/hr.

NeoBad: Number 31: Go to Medical School. Flood the USA with cheap assed doctors, there will truly be drive through doc in the boxs where you stick out your tongue and say Ah. We won't need HC reform anymore and the government will go back to governing


You, my good man, are insane. I gather, however, that it was the point.

As a serious note on med school, for the love of God, major in something other than Biology if you go that route. I took some medical leave during med school, and finding a job of any form with a Bio degree was next to impossible.
 
2012-05-09 12:59:06 PM

Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: If you want to know why I think its true, change the search settings in USAjobs to jobs for federal employees and watch the number of open jobs double.


Federal agency puts out a job announcement, often both to internal and external candidates. Officially the "rule of 3" is gone, and the new category system is in place. Based on those job announcements, HR provides a list of people and how qualified they are for the job (based on each announcement). The new rules state that you can hire anyone in the best qualified list, but in most circumstances you're constrained by various hiring preferences: veterans, displaced feds, disabled, are the big ones.

they're working on modernizing the system, but the effect is that for many of the jobs that seem awesome with the feds, you have to take a boring job to get to that, or just get damn lucky, orbe a veteran.


You don't have to be a paper pushing fed to get a park ranger job, just freaking admit it. You don't know what you're talking about; you based your whole righteous schtick on the anecdotal recall of a friend years back.
 
2012-05-09 12:59:23 PM

Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: If you want to know why I think its true, change the search settings in USAjobs to jobs for federal employees and watch the number of open jobs double.

That may be true, but when I initially started the search the number of open ranger jobs in the most crescent recesses of the balls of the country were at "need lots," "need lots," need lots." I doubt "needing a whole lot of lots" would've changed the landscape.

*blinks* You have no clue how the federal job process works do you? Go to washington post's website, they have some general information about it. or the Partnership for Public Service has good information.

the feds have a whole process in who they are allowed to hire, no matter whether they "advertise" a job or not. its not like private industry, you don't just put the job out there and hire someone.

Um, yeah, those talk about the new hiring category process, which is already plain when you apply. You don't actually know what you're talking about, do you?

I'm trying to find something that actually bothers to explain it, but here's how it works.

Federal agency puts out a job announcement, often both to internal and external candidates. Officially the "rule of 3" is gone, and the new category system is in place. Based on those job announcements, HR provides a list of people and how qualified they are for the job (based on each announcement). The new rules state that you can hire anyone in the best qualified list, but in most circumstances you're constrained by various hiring preferences: veterans, displaced feds, disabled, are the big ones.

they're working on modernizing the system, but the effect is that for many of the jobs that seem awesome with the feds, you have to take a boring job to get to that, or just get damn lucky, orbe a veteran.


found it:

"Q. How are candidates selected under category rating?

A . Agencies make selections from within the highest quality category regardless of the number of candidates (i.e., the rule of three does not apply). However, preference eligibles receive absolute preference within each category. If a preference eligible is in the category, an agency may not select a non-preference eligible unless the agency requests to pass over the preference eligible in accordance with 5 U.S.C. § 3318, and the request is approved.

If there are fewer than three candidates in the highest quality group, agencies may combine the highest group with the next lower group and make selections from the merged group. The newly merged category would then constitute the highest quality category. Preference eligibles must be listed ahead of non-preference eligibles in the newly merged category. Once again, as long as a preference eligible remains in the merged category, an agency may not select a non-preference eligible unless the agency receives approval to pass over the preference eligible in accordance with 5 U.S.C. § 3318.

Agencies are reminded that preference eligibles are placed in the highest quality category based on the quality category definition agencies develop with the exception of the preference eligible with a compensable service-connected disability of at least 10 percent who must be listed in the highest quality category (except in the case of scientific or professional positions at the GS-9 level or higher). Agencies should review the quality categories to ensure they accurately reflect the best qualified.
"

http://www.opm.gov/employ/category_rating/faq.asp
 
2012-05-09 01:00:24 PM
We need more people to go to law school. Some of us still have to share a lawyer.
 
2012-05-09 01:02:20 PM

Katie98_KT: Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT:

found it:

"Q. How are candidates selected under category rating?

A . Agencies make selections from within the highest quality category regar ...


Did you forget I was already placed in Best Qualified, and did you forget that I wasn't a federal employee to get that ranking?

Christ you're obtuse.
 
2012-05-09 01:02:32 PM

JackieRabbit: We need more people to go to law school. Some of us still have to share a lawyer.


We NEED lawyers cause they help us forgive people of crimes
 
2012-05-09 01:04:07 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT:

found it:

"Q. How are candidates selected under category rating?

A . Agencies make selections from within the highest quality category regar ...

Did you forget I was already placed in Best Qualified, and did you forget that I wasn't a federal employee to get that ranking?

Christ you're obtuse.


did you read the second line? It says that if you and a vet are both rated "best qualified" they HAVE to hire the vet unless they apply for an exception.

If you are a federal employee, you can apply for TWO announcements for the same job. and the hiring manager is given TWO best qualified lists. The "internal" list generally does not include veteran (or at least is less likely to), so they can hire from the interal best qualfied list without having to provide a justification for not hiring the vet.
 
2012-05-09 01:06:26 PM

philotech: born_yesterday: Bob16: >> Don't go to law school,

And definitely stay away from EE and CS too

clip - Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_82739 8 .htm


America's vanishing science jobs

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/america_vanishing _ science_jobs_V3TzWwPRZsmTh1sGmtVr8L

Offshoring making Computer Science graduates the largest unemployed group

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/is-off s horing-making-computer-science-graduates-the-largest-unemployed-group. html

The Real Science Crisis: Bleak Prospects for Young Researchers

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Real-Science-Crisis-Bleak/29178

But Bob16, we NEED moar young people in science!!!!

/Cause they'll work for next to nothing
//And don't know enough to complain
///Or we'll get an H2 to do it

Incompetence makes computer science graduates the largest unemployed group... Seriously, the last 50 interviews I've done for programmers were just sad... really, really sad...


This is very much the reason. If you can hold a conversation with someone that isn't about WoW or Call of Duty and know how to wear a suit then you're guaranteed employment with an EE. Be willing to relocate or travel for a few years before you have life commitments and you'll be making 6 figures in less then 5-10yrs out of school and never be worried about finding a job. We can't find enough talented EE grads who look like they can talk to adults and we pay very well. Most are pimple faced morans who will live at home well into their 30's.

/MSEE
 
2012-05-09 01:07:56 PM

rcuhljr: Does not compute.


I guess you're not familiar with outsourcing.

/last job was outsourced.
 
2012-05-09 01:08:13 PM

bkisfancy: Ok- honest question. What advice would you give to a second year PhD student in biomedical science? I love research but is it time to leave for something else while the boat is still sinking?


First bit of advice: don't solicit career advice from a bunch of unemployed know-it-alls who have nothing better to do than post on web forums all day.
 
2012-05-09 01:13:15 PM

Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT: Salt Lick Steady: Katie98_KT:

found it:

"Q. How are candidates selected under category rating?

A . Agencies make selections from within the highest quality category regar ...

Did you forget I was already placed in Best Qualified, and did you forget that I wasn't a federal employee to get that ranking?

Christ you're obtuse.


also, you're really rude. I'm trying to help.
 
2012-05-09 01:16:36 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: rcuhljr: Does not compute.

I guess you're not familiar with outsourcing.

/last job was outsourced.


Sure, I worked an internship in college fixing the crappy code results of outsourced development. Software development is thriving right now and good developers are in high demand.
 
2012-05-09 01:18:40 PM
I wish I'd read all the advice about grad school five years ago. About to graduate soon, and feel like I've just wasted 5 years of my life.
 
2012-05-09 01:22:00 PM

rcuhljr: Sure, I worked an internship in college fixing the crappy code results of outsourced development. Software development is thriving right now and good developers are in high demand.


If you're in the increasingly narrow range of the skillset HR thinks you need. Otherwise they biatch on Fark that software development is booming but they can't find any qualified candidates.
 
2012-05-09 01:38:19 PM

Rincewind53: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.


Three biggest mistakes I made in my legal career because I just didn't know any better:

1) Turned down a scholarship to a top 10 law school and went to second tier one because I was impressed witht he dean at the 2nd tier one and his philosophy of what a lawyer should be

2)Moved back home after law school theeby rendering useless all the professional contacts I'd made over the last three years

3) not taking advantage of the fact that for 5 years before law school I was on a first name basis with every family lawyer in my home county because "i didn't want to be that kind of lawyer"

Here's my honest advice to any wanna-be lawyer: if it is what you really want then go for it, BUT

1. Ignore all the ABA bullshiat to the contrary, School rankings REALLY matter to your future employability go to the top ranked one that will let you in the door

2. This is a business of personal contacts, NEVER squander those

3. Your Fellow Students particularly the ones you went through 1L with are your brother's-in -arms. Never screw them over, always help them out when you can, and you'll find those kindnesses are re-paid professionally a thousand time over when you get into the real world
 
2012-05-09 01:39:37 PM
www.roastersntoasters.com



When making fries, buy and use a thermometer. Keeping the oil at the right temperature is essential to making a good french fry.


Also: learn to cook. People may talk about careers that get you half a million and up, but at the end of the day everyone needs to eat. Cooking will impress your family, friends, employers who didn't have time to get lunch, teammates, captors, cops, exotic beauties whom you didn't believe you had a chance with and the deity of your choice.


/Journalism-English major and former Deli Associate for Wal-Mart.
//McDonalds fries suck.
 
2012-05-09 01:40:31 PM
My wife has a masters in Archives and Public History since 2007. She has three part time jobs and without my benefits, she'd have no health insurance.

She's considering becoming an electrician.
 
2012-05-09 01:43:05 PM

Magorn: 3. Your Fellow Students particularly the ones you went through 1L with are your brother's-in -arms. Never screw them over, always help them out when you can, and you'll find those kindnesses are re-paid professionally a thousand time over when you get into the real world


This is great advice. Some of my best friends are people I went to school with. I'm starting a business with some of them this summer.
 
2012-05-09 01:52:07 PM

emarche: Yes. Yes, yes yes. Not everyone needs to go to college and god knows not everyone deserves to go to college. No shame in trade school at all - and if you're worried about it, don't be: there is money to be made.


Cool! Where is it?

/welding for over 10 years
//on food stamps
 
2012-05-09 01:59:31 PM

Katie98_KT: Port1080: stiletto_the_wise: Port1080: Taxes are pretty low right now, probably will be higher by the time you retire. Also, starting out in a new job you're probably not in a very high tax bracket. It really depends on your situation, though. If you turned that 5 year engineering BA / MA into an $80k job right out of college, a Roth might not make that much sense.

I agree it probably depends on your situation, but when was the last time tax rates actually went up significantly? Not in my lifetime or my parents' lifetimes.

I suspect that most people's effective tax rate goes down throughout their life. You start out with only your labor (which is taxed at the highest rate). Then, as you get older more and more of your income is shielded from taxes (capital gains, access to deductions such as mortgage interest, etc.) I bet most of us will be paying a far lower tax rate once we retire and are unemployed than now when we're working.

US Government debt is obscenely large and tax rates are at historic lows. Taxes are not going to go down.

do you understand the phrase "effective tax rate"?


I think tax rates are going to have to go up across the board. I wouldn't be surprised to see the lowest tax brackets go up to 20% and 25%, respectively, by the time I'm retirement age. If I'm pulling $20k-$40k or so a year out of an traditional IRA, I'd still be in those brackets, and paying more on that money than I currently pay (in 15% bracket right now).
 
2012-05-09 02:01:48 PM

stiletto_the_wise: 15. If you can, make your 401(k) contributions Roth IRA-style rather than traditional. When you withdraw the money in retirement (many, many years from now) you will not have to pay income tax on it.

Can someone explain this logic to me? Why would you want to pay taxes on it NOW, when you're working and are in a higher tax bracket, than later, when you're retired, have virtually no income, and have a low tax rate?


Because historically , taxes never go down. Pay it now, and use the money how you see fit in the future with no worries.
 
2012-05-09 02:02:52 PM

Katie98_KT: also, you're really rude. I'm trying to help.


Yeah, this from the one who said, "Good luck with that."

You weren't trying to help, you were being a dick who started off as saying, "The reason I know this is because if you go to USAjobs and change your preference... more jerbs appear!"

Despite preferences, it is not plausible that the several hundred placements I sought were not gained because a vet or a former federal worker with the requisite amount of skill took them.
 
2012-05-09 02:03:27 PM

bkisfancy: Ok- honest question. What advice would you give to a second year PhD student in biomedical science? I love research but is it time to leave for something else while the boat is still sinking?


If you honestly love research, don't leave unless you can find a place that will hire you to do research with an MS. Instead, decide whether you want to work in academia or industry immediately.

If it's academia: start talking to your adviser now about connections for postdocs, and start participating in grant writing as soon as you possibly can. If your adviser won't let you help with grants or doesn't have connections, seriously consider changing to another adviser before it's too late. If that's not an option, start researching postdocs that are available now - it's never to early to look - and start a dialogue with any PIs on projects that look interesting to you. In the meantime, start working on your own grants - you can make up for lack of help by practicing a lot, and the best way to do that is to write your own grants. Go to NIH or NSF or whoever funds your current project and see what's open - pick one or two and write a grant proposal. Don't submit it without your adviser's approval, but if you can write a decent draft for something that he/she has a chance of getting funded, it might convince him/her to let you in on the process. Above all though - being able to effectively write grants and developing a network of personal connections is what gets people jobs in academia. Scientific talent/ability is irrelevant beyond that - you can be a modern day Einstein, but if you can't get grant proposals funded, nobody will hire you.

If you want to go into industry, find out if your adviser has any connections in industry, and do your best to either:
a) start a research project partially funded by an industry partner where you are actually collaborating with someone from the company, preferably at their location (them just writing a check and having first crack at the results doesn't count)
b) get an internship somewhere for at least one semester. It doesn't matter how much longer it takes to graduate - that internship is what will get you a job after you do.

If your adviser doesn't have any direct connections and can't put you into contact with someone who does, start talking to other faculty - any one who does research you are interested in. One of them will know someone, and that's how you will get your foot in the door. The absolute most important things to remember are:

Academia - learn to write grants proposals that actually get funded
Industry - get real-world working experience before you graduate
 
2012-05-09 02:09:36 PM

RexTalionis: Magorn: 3. Your Fellow Students particularly the ones you went through 1L with are your brother's-in -arms. Never screw them over, always help them out when you can, and you'll find those kindnesses are re-paid professionally a thousand time over when you get into the real world

This is great advice. Some of my best friends are people I went to school with. I'm starting a business with some of them this summer.


This. Many of my former classmates do the free legal hotline and homeless clinic here, and I get family and probate cases to me as a result.
 
2012-05-09 02:12:49 PM

Uncivil Engineer:
Because historically , taxes never go down. Pay it now, and use the money how you see fit in the future with no worries.


I think if you look at data you will find the opposite to be true.
 
2012-05-09 02:21:03 PM

Port1080: Katie98_KT: Port1080: stiletto_the_wise: Port1080: Taxes are pretty low right now, probably will be higher by the time you retire. Also, starting out in a new job you're probably not in a very high tax bracket. It really depends on your situation, though. If you turned that 5 year engineering BA / MA into an $80k job right out of college, a Roth might not make that much sense.

I agree it probably depends on your situation, but when was the last time tax rates actually went up significantly? Not in my lifetime or my parents' lifetimes.

I suspect that most people's effective tax rate goes down throughout their life. You start out with only your labor (which is taxed at the highest rate). Then, as you get older more and more of your income is shielded from taxes (capital gains, access to deductions such as mortgage interest, etc.) I bet most of us will be paying a far lower tax rate once we retire and are unemployed than now when we're working.

US Government debt is obscenely large and tax rates are at historic lows. Taxes are not going to go down.

do you understand the phrase "effective tax rate"?

I think tax rates are going to have to go up across the board. I wouldn't be surprised to see the lowest tax brackets go up to 20% and 25%, respectively, by the time I'm retirement age. If I'm pulling $20k-$40k or so a year out of an traditional IRA, I'd still be in those brackets, and paying more on that money than I currently pay (in 15% bracket right now).


Fair enough. I think i paid like 30%. damn local and state taxes.
 
2012-05-09 02:39:56 PM

RexTalionis: Magorn: 3. Your Fellow Students particularly the ones you went through 1L with are your brother's-in -arms. Never screw them over, always help them out when you can, and you'll find those kindnesses are re-paid professionally a thousand time over when you get into the real world

This is great advice. Some of my best friends are people I went to school with. I'm starting a business with some of them this summer.


Good grief. Well, try to not be cynical, because your customers can actually see that. I don't know how the fark you're going to accomplish that though.
 
2012-05-09 02:40:01 PM

rev. dave: Well a few good points and they made the big one:
1. Stay debt free as long as possible, ignore this advice and you will be a wage slave and be subject to the whims of management.
2. Stay the hell away from Medicine too.
3. It would not hurt to go into engineering, it can be more satisfying than other careers. Then learn how to code and test and solve word problems.
4. Do not let the women you love go into nursing, it will psychologically destroy them.
5. Stay away from banking, they not only eat their young, but also the old and those who appear weak. If Darth Vader were real he would be middle management for a large bank.


What's the deal with #4? My mom's been a nurse for over 20 years and she loves it. Mrs Bearcats will be finishing nursing school early 2013 and she seems to be doing pretty well.

Not trolling, just curious on your views here.
 
2012-05-09 02:45:21 PM
So what I'm getting from this discussion:
1. No one is hiring anyone anywhere for anything

and as a rising 3L with no job
2. Depressed
 
2012-05-09 02:49:56 PM

Thats_Not_My_Baby: So what I'm getting from this discussion:
1. No one is hiring anyone anywhere for anything

and as a rising 3L with no job
2. Depressed


For many people this is "My First Recession". Lord knows what's going to happen to them when the next recession hits.

Currently, people are still getting jobs. The economy is growing. Yes, not as fast. But that's economies for ya.
 
2012-05-09 02:50:49 PM
Is "You should have voted in 2010 and not just 2008" on there?
 
2012-05-09 02:53:49 PM

rev. dave: Well a few good points and they made the big one:
1. Stay debt free as long as possible, ignore this advice and you will be a wage slave and be subject to the whims of management.
2. Stay the hell away from Medicine too.
3. It would not hurt to go into engineering, it can be more satisfying than other careers. Then learn how to code and test and solve word problems.
4. Do not let the women you love go into nursing, it will psychologically destroy them.
5. Stay away from banking, they not only eat their young, but also the old and those who appear weak. If Darth Vader were real he would be middle management for a large bank.


Number 5 gets an AMEN!
AMEN!
 
2012-05-09 02:53:54 PM

Lupine Chemist: Wait until your payment schedule is firmed up on your loans then throw all of your graduation gift money into it. This should buy you at least a year of being able to live without a guaranteed wage. Use this time to go looking for a skill, travel and try to find a job abroad, whatever.

Once you start making money only save money if you get matching funds from a company. Otherwise you will never find an account with an interest rate greater than your loans, so dump everything into them. You can use credit for emergency funds because you're already up to your eyeballs in debt.


Every word of this is incredibly horrible advice.
 
2012-05-09 02:59:34 PM

emarche: trade school


emarche: hasty ambush: Go to trade school instead. Learn a marketable, in demand skill that pays well and won't saddle you with a ton of college debt-like AC/heating repair, welding, diesel mechanic , electrician, plumber, electronics tech etc. People who can fix things will alwasy be in demand.

[dsc.discovery.com image 324x205]

Yes. Yes, yes yes. Not everyone needs to go to college and god knows not everyone deserves to go to college. No shame in trade school at all - and if you're worried about it, don't be: there is money to be made.


Can I eat paninis with black hitler?
 
2012-05-09 03:04:32 PM

emarche: hasty ambush: Go to trade school instead. Learn a marketable, in demand skill that pays well and won't saddle you with a ton of college debt-like AC/heating repair, welding, diesel mechanic , electrician, plumber, electronics tech etc. People who can fix things will alwasy be in demand.

[dsc.discovery.com image 324x205]

Yes. Yes, yes yes. Not everyone needs to go to college and god knows not everyone deserves to go to college. No shame in trade school at all - and if you're worried about it, don't be: there is money to be made.


In this area right now, a welder can pretty much write his own ticket.
 
2012-05-09 03:08:29 PM

hasty ambush: Go to trade school instead. Learn a marketable, in demand skill that pays well and won't saddle you with a ton of college debt-like AC/heating repair, welding, diesel mechanic , electrician, plumber, electronics tech etc. People who can fix things will alwasy be in demand.

[dsc.discovery.com image 324x205]


My plumber charges more than my corporate lawyer. Farking bastid.
 
2012-05-09 03:24:14 PM

kriegsgeist: bkisfancy: Ok- honest question. What advice would you give to a second year PhD student in biomedical science? I love research but is it time to leave for something else while the boat is still sinking?

If you honestly love research, don't leave unless you can find a place that will hire you to do research with an MS. Instead, decide whether you want to work in academia or industry immediately.

If it's academia: start talking to your adviser now about connections for postdocs, and start participating in grant writing as soon as you possibly can. If your adviser won't let you help with grants or doesn't have connections, seriously consider changing to another adviser before it's too late. If that's not an option, start researching postdocs that are available now - it's never to early to look - and start a dialogue with any PIs on projects that look interesting to you. In the meantime, start working on your own grants - you can make up for lack of help by practicing a lot, and the best way to do that is to write your own grants. Go to NIH or NSF or whoever funds your current project and see what's open - pick one or two and write a grant proposal. Don't submit it without your adviser's approval, but if you can write a decent draft for something that he/she has a chance of getting funded, it might convince him/her to let you in on the process. Above all though - being able to effectively write grants and developing a network of personal connections is what gets people jobs in academia. Scientific talent/ability is irrelevant beyond that - you can be a modern day Einstein, but if you can't get grant proposals funded, nobody will hire you.

If you want to go into industry, find out if your adviser has any connections in industry, and do your best to either:
a) start a research project partially funded by an industry partner where you are actually collaborating with someone from the company, preferably at their location (them just writing a check and having first crack ...


This is really good advice. As someone who did get out of a biomedical PhD program, I can offer some advice from the other side of the issue.

First, bear in mind that the median length of time between starting grad school and starting a non-postdoc job is 12 years in the biomedical sciences. Your number will vary based on the advice given above but understand that it's difficult to avoid.

While you'll more easily find jobs available for MS holders, it's not that rosy anyhow. Research jobs for non-PhDs are few and far between, and there are definite limits on advancement. Most jobs you'll find are going to be rather uninspiring: Sales, QC, analytical, production, etc.

And while job availability, salary, and benefits are all really important, I think the biggest factor should be what you want out of your career and out of life. Do you want to work 40 hours a week and not bring it home with you? Do you want to start a family before you're 40? Is the prestige of a PhD (and a PhD level job) critical to your satisfaction with life? They're important questions; grad school and the PhD will lock you into a path that is pretty difficult to stay on but painful to leave. You should be absolutely certain that you want to do it (or not, as the case may be.)
 
2012-05-09 03:35:04 PM

draypresct: thornhill: 17. Open your wallet. Take out your credit cards. Now cut them up and never use them again. You'll thank me in ten years.

This is just really stupid. Having a large line of credit is extremely useful. The lesson should be: don't put more on your credit card then you can completely pay back in less than 2 months.

Agree that it's incredibly stupid advice. Credit cards are too necessary to navigate modern society to go without. Some places no longer even accept personal checks, and carrying cash in sufficient amounts to cover an emergency (e.g. the cost of an emergency flight home, if you travel) has its own risks.


Use a branded (Visa, MC) debit card.
 
2012-05-09 03:35:08 PM

Sergeant Grumbles: rcuhljr: Sure, I worked an internship in college fixing the crappy code results of outsourced development. Software development is thriving right now and good developers are in high demand.

If you're in the increasingly narrow range of the skillset HR thinks you need. Otherwise they biatch on Fark that software development is booming but they can't find any qualified candidates.


The applicants for programming positions are overwhelmingly extremely bad. Search for FizzBuzz on Google for extensive discussion of the problem.

I've been told that 5% of students who graduate with engineering degrees and are hired as engineers will ever do what a layperson thinks of as engineering: designing a system, designing a part, investigating design problems, devising ways to test things. The other 95% do other jobs. Some act as sales engineers, finding out what customers' needs are and how the company's products can help them. Some act as field engineers, visiting customer sites to inspect equipment or run through troubleshooting protocols that can't be done remotely. Some carry out lab or testing procedures that can't be automated. Some move from their entry-level engineering jobs into careers in management, sales, marketing, etc.

5% actually engineer things.

I don't have any numbers for software development, but I suspect the situation is similar to engineering. 5% of the people who graduate with CS degrees should expect to become programmers. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the expectation on the part of CS majors is that a CS degree means you're a programmer.
 
2012-05-09 03:41:20 PM

seadoo2006: PYTHON???!?!? The recommended learning PYTHON!?!?! What, should you learn FORTRAN and QBasic as well? Good lord, get with the times ...


It's still used. We do a lot of it around here.

Not everything in the world revolves around the web
 
2012-05-09 03:44:27 PM

AustinFakir: Sergeant Grumbles: rcuhljr: Sure, I worked an internship in college fixing the crappy code results of outsourced development. Software development is thriving right now and good developers are in high demand.

If you're in the increasingly narrow range of the skillset HR thinks you need. Otherwise they biatch on Fark that software development is booming but they can't find any qualified candidates.

The applicants for programming positions are overwhelmingly extremely bad. Search for FizzBuzz on Google for extensive discussion of the problem.

I've been told that 5% of students who graduate with engineering degrees and are hired as engineers will ever do what a layperson thinks of as engineering: designing a system, designing a part, investigating design problems, devising ways to test things. The other 95% do other jobs. Some act as sales engineers, finding out what customers' needs are and how the company's products can help them. Some act as field engineers, visiting customer sites to inspect equipment or run through troubleshooting protocols that can't be done remotely. Some carry out lab or testing procedures that can't be automated. Some move from their entry-level engineering jobs into careers in management, sales, marketing, etc.

5% actually engineer things.

I don't have any numbers for software development, but I suspect the situation is similar to engineering. 5% of the people who graduate with CS degrees should expect to become programmers. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, the expectation on the part of CS majors is that a CS degree means you're a programmer.


Nah. Most CS programs don't do any real programming unless they're on a very specific track. CS degree holders are the last people you want to hire as programmers unless you know for absolute certain they did some programming while in school (believe me, the number is very, very small).

If you actually need new grad programmers, then technical schools are the way to go.
 
2012-05-09 03:44:43 PM

beantowndog: fireclown: While we're complaining about law school, I finish my MBA in two semesters. I didn't pay a cent for it (employer reimburses expensed), and I'm pretty happy in my current job. I took the program as sort of an exercise. What do people DO with the silly things?

Ruin the economy.


Mediocre But Arrogant. I dont use my mba at all but it puts your res at the top of the pile.
/didn't ruin the economy. Had help
 
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