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(Forbes)   Don't go to law school, it's time to drop the fries, and 26 other things new college grads should know   (forbes.com) divider line 299
    More: Interesting, law schools  
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23398 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2012 at 10:02 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-09 10:57:14 AM  

kukukupo: thornhill: 17. Open your wallet. Take out your credit cards. Now cut them up and never use them again. You'll thank me in ten years.

This is just really stupid. Having a large line of credit is extremely useful. The lesson should be: don't put more on your credit card then you can completely pay back in less than 2 months.

There is absolutely no need for a credit card. The wife and I never used one and we had good enough 'credit' to buy a house and a car. If you get an apartment and make rent payments and start paying utilities you won't need a credit card.


So you buy everything in cash or check (which few people accept)?

And if you say you use a debit card, that's a big mistake. If the card number is stolen, the money is directly debited from your bank account. Now obviously if you can demonstrate to the bank that the card was stolen you can get the money back, but when this happens with a credit card, your actual savings are never affected.

Further, what if you have to put a large deposit down? You really want that tying up your personal finances?

Lastly, the rewards some cards offer do have tangible value. My card gives me frequent flyer miles. It's helped me earn about 100,000 miles in the last two years from purchases I've made with it. That translates into $1,000 of free airfare.
 
2012-05-09 10:57:17 AM  

Lane83: Come to the Light Side. We make more and you get to sleep at night knowing you're not defending a rapist.


Aaaand this is another shining example of why I hate prosecutors.
 
2012-05-09 10:58:17 AM  
FTA: "Daniel Fisher, our expert on the world of law, says:

6. Pick where you want to work and take any job you can get there. Smart people will rise in any organization."


Sounds like a lawyer.
 
2012-05-09 10:58:22 AM  

hasty ambush: Go to trade school instead. Learn a marketable, in demand skill that pays well and won't saddle you with a ton of college debt-like AC/heating repair, welding, diesel mechanic , electrician, plumber, electronics tech..............]


Electronics Tech is not what it sounds like. Any monkey can replace a circuit board these days.
 
2012-05-09 10:59:35 AM  

Skwrl: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

What was the tag line from the movie "War Games"?


In love, there are no boundaries
 
2012-05-09 10:59:57 AM  

emarche: hasty ambush: Go to trade school instead. Learn a marketable, in demand skill that pays well and won't saddle you with a ton of college debt-like AC/heating repair, welding, diesel mechanic , electrician, plumber, electronics tech etc. People who can fix things will alwasy be in demand.

[dsc.discovery.com image 324x205]

Yes. Yes, yes yes. Not everyone needs to go to college and god knows not everyone deserves to go to college. No shame in trade school at all - and if you're worried about it, don't be: there is money to be made.


Those are all "shiat jobs working from some other asshole" the only way out is through self employment. Obviously, that takes a good idea and motivation to get it done.
 
2012-05-09 11:00:22 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: 15. If you can, make your 401(k) contributions Roth IRA-style rather than traditional. When you withdraw the money in retirement (many, many years from now) you will not have to pay income tax on it.

Can someone explain this logic to me? Why would you want to pay taxes on it NOW, when you're working and are in a higher tax bracket, than later, when you're retired, have virtually no income, and have a low tax rate?


That would be logical if the only thing to consider was the principal - however the earnings and growth are all also tax free.

Example: I put $100 in a Roth IRA today paying the full 28% (or whatever) on the $120+ I had to earn to put $100 away. 30 years from now that $100 has grown to $400 - I can withdraw that $400 without additional tax. My effective tax rate is now $28 on $300 of income or less than 10%.
 
2012-05-09 11:00:46 AM  
Don't read Forbes or take advice from the corporate drones who write for it.
 
2012-05-09 11:01:56 AM  

Port1080: stiletto_the_wise: 15. If you can, make your 401(k) contributions Roth IRA-style rather than traditional. When you withdraw the money in retirement (many, many years from now) you will not have to pay income tax on it.

Can someone explain this logic to me? Why would you want to pay taxes on it NOW, when you're working and are in a higher tax bracket, than later, when you're retired, have virtually no income, and have a low tax rate?

Taxes are pretty low right now, probably will be higher by the time you retire. Also, starting out in a new job you're probably not in a very high tax bracket. It really depends on your situation, though. If you turned that 5 year engineering BA / MA into an $80k job right out of college, a Roth might not make that much sense.


No. Everybody that qualifies for a Roth should do a Roth. When you pay the taxes up front, you don't have to pay them later on all of the interest your money earns as it sits there for 20+ years.
 
2012-05-09 11:02:48 AM  

Rapmaster2000:
/banks still hire people for COBOL
//but that's the only archaic language I can think of that does so


Well vb and vb script should qualify as arcane now. Used in QTP, I don't know a single developer who uses it outside of automated testing.
 
2012-05-09 11:03:11 AM  
7. Be annoyingly proactive to land your first job. Don't just send a CV, but follow up with a phone call, and give the person that answers examples of how you will actually help their organization.

Don't resort to this unless it comes naturally. It's fine if you want to be annoying all the time and work with annoying people who expect you to be annoying and will grade your performance based on how annoying you are. If you're annoying you'll get hired by people who NEED you to be annoying. They won't let you stop. And they'll be annoying themselves.

If competent people in your field generally look down on this kind of behavior, then you cannot get jobs in your field this way.
 
2012-05-09 11:04:16 AM  

Port1080: Taxes are pretty low right now, probably will be higher by the time you retire. Also, starting out in a new job you're probably not in a very high tax bracket. It really depends on your situation, though. If you turned that 5 year engineering BA / MA into an $80k job right out of college, a Roth might not make that much sense.


I agree it probably depends on your situation, but when was the last time tax rates actually went up significantly? Not in my lifetime or my parents' lifetimes.

I suspect that most people's effective tax rate goes down throughout their life. You start out with only your labor (which is taxed at the highest rate). Then, as you get older more and more of your income is shielded from taxes (capital gains, access to deductions such as mortgage interest, etc.) I bet most of us will be paying a far lower tax rate once we retire and are unemployed than now when we're working.
 
2012-05-09 11:04:41 AM  

Port1080: kukukupo: thornhill: 17. Open your wallet. Take out your credit cards. Now cut them up and never use them again. You'll thank me in ten years.

This is just really stupid. Having a large line of credit is extremely useful. The lesson should be: don't put more on your credit card then you can completely pay back in less than 2 months.

There is absolutely no need for a credit card. The wife and I never used one and we had good enough 'credit' to buy a house and a car. If you get an apartment and make rent payments and start paying utilities you won't need a credit card.

Utility payments and rent don't show up positively on your credit report - the only way they show up is as a negative (i.e. if you rack up a large debt, don't pay it, and they report you - paying late, as long as it's too late, won't hurt you like it will with a credit card, because these places don't typically report late payments, too much hassle). Car payments do show up, though - I'm wondering if you bought the car first, and then the house? I'd be somewhat surprised if you got approved for a mortgage with no real credit history, but I guess if your proven income was good enough and you didn't have any negatives, you might be okay.


It depends if you bought your house before or after 2008, cost of the house, how much you put down, and income.

Before 2008 it didn't take much to qualify for a mortgage -- that's why we had a financial collapse. Now banks actually have much higher standards -- NPR recently did a story on renters wanting to buy homes but being unable to qualify for a mortgage because their credit history was so week.

Also, when I bought my first car out of college, I had a pretty thin credit history because the only thing on my credit report was my credit card. The only reason I got a good deal on the financing was because Honda was desperate to move inventory (Honda financing gave me a much more favorable rate than any other lender).
 
2012-05-09 11:05:14 AM  
Err... No comments on the error in the headline?
 
2012-05-09 11:06:43 AM  
If a bridge is worth burning, light that mofo up. Keeping people in your life that are a drain on your psyche is an end-result net-loss after ALL is said and done. Chances are they are likely talking constant sh*t about you anyway, especially when it seems you're getting along okay.
 
2012-05-09 11:08:00 AM  
Just make peace with the fact that your degree, no matter what it is in or how advanced it is, still means you have to start at the bottom in whatever field you pursue.
 
2012-05-09 11:08:12 AM  

UnspokenVoice: Err... No comments on the error in the headline?


Improper capitalization?
 
2012-05-09 11:08:48 AM  

umad: Port1080: stiletto_the_wise: 15. If you can, make your 401(k) contributions Roth IRA-style rather than traditional. When you withdraw the money in retirement (many, many years from now) you will not have to pay income tax on it.

Can someone explain this logic to me? Why would you want to pay taxes on it NOW, when you're working and are in a higher tax bracket, than later, when you're retired, have virtually no income, and have a low tax rate?

Taxes are pretty low right now, probably will be higher by the time you retire. Also, starting out in a new job you're probably not in a very high tax bracket. It really depends on your situation, though. If you turned that 5 year engineering BA / MA into an $80k job right out of college, a Roth might not make that much sense.

No. Everybody that qualifies for a Roth should do a Roth. When you pay the taxes up front, you don't have to pay them later on all of the interest your money earns as it sits there for 20+ years.


You also don't get to use a traditional 401k lower your AGI which qualifies you for certain education and child related tax credits/deductions nor do you get to deduct traditional IRA deductions.

It's not as simple a proposition as you outlined. I would recommend everyone run the numbers, think about the breaks you qualify for/need now, and factor in their personal assumptions about both their future tax rates and the total they'll sock away.
 
2012-05-09 11:10:59 AM  

AKTurkey: Skwrl: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

What was the tag line from the movie "War Games"?

In love, there are no boundaries


Damn, I must have mis-remembered it. I thought it was "Laugh. Cry. Share The Pants." My bad.
 
2012-05-09 11:13:02 AM  
>> Don't go to law school,

And definitely stay away from EE and CS too

clip - Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_82739 8 .htm


America's vanishing science jobs

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/america_vanishing _ science_jobs_V3TzWwPRZsmTh1sGmtVr8L

Offshoring making Computer Science graduates the largest unemployed group

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/is-off s horing-making-computer-science-graduates-the-largest-unemployed-group. html

The Real Science Crisis: Bleak Prospects for Young Researchers

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Real-Science-Crisis-Bleak/29178
 
2012-05-09 11:13:41 AM  

RexTalionis: Rincewind53: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

Correction: Don't be dumb, and don't go to a BAD law school. and if you do go to a GOOD law school, don't slack.

However you cut it (and I didn't go to a great law school, but whatever), you're going to come out of it with a lot of debt, an overglutted market, a wicked drinking problem and a higher likelihood of being depressed and to abuse illicit substances or alcohol.


OK, so I'm not alone.

The only recommendation I suppose I have, for those potential lawyers out there, is that you should plan on hanging your own shingle rather than getting hired. And plan early. You don't need overhead to start; you can meet clients at a coffee shop (but again, plan early, because you'll need paralegal-type knowledge).

For example, if you want to work in environmental law, get familiar with current and ongoing cases that the state environmental agency has already done research on. Then use that to find potential clients. Don't break any ethics laws on solicitation by the way, wink wink.
 
2012-05-09 11:15:04 AM  

Fizpez: Example: I put $100 in a Roth IRA today paying the full 28% (or whatever) on the $120+ I had to earn to put $100 away. 30 years from now that $100 has grown to $400 - I can withdraw that $400 without additional tax. My effective tax rate is now $28 on $300 of income or less than 10%.


Good point. Counter-example:

I put the full $120 I made pre-tax into a traditional IRA. It grows at the same rate and is $480 when I retire. Assume I'm at 15% when I retire (although if the last 50-years of tax history are a trend, that's pretty high), so I'm paying $72 in taxes ending up with $408.

So it's pretty much the same thing, with a lot of upside in the likely event tax rates go down.
 
2012-05-09 11:17:02 AM  
I think the best advice is be prepared to work in a field completely different than what you majored in, and don't hesitate to apply for a job that was way outside of your major. Except for highly specialized work, when it comes to entry level jobs, no one really cares what your major was.
 
2012-05-09 11:18:39 AM  
I'm a current 2L and would recommend NOT going to school for about 75% of people interested in obtaining a JD. I was luckily enough to go into the service after college and therefore the post 9/11 GI Bill takes care of about 80% of my tuition costs, not to mention 1300 bucks a month living expenses. More important than top 20 school v. everywhere else is location. I go to Phoenix School of Law (re: nowhere near the top anything) but because the Phoenix market isn't saturated with law schools (other than ASU law) we have a long list of summer employers seeking students out directly at our school. Most of the jobs pay 12-18$ per hr....so not too bad in the grand scheme of things. As somebody stated above, an grad degree gets you an interview but that's about it in today's job market. Unfortunately many of my classmates will graduate with 150-200k in loans and don't have the resume nor the pedigree to get the kind of fancy lawyering job everybody thinks are available.
 
2012-05-09 11:19:08 AM  

Bob16: >> Don't go to law school,

And definitely stay away from EE and CS too

clip - Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_82739 8 .htm


America's vanishing science jobs

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/america_vanishing _ science_jobs_V3TzWwPRZsmTh1sGmtVr8L

Offshoring making Computer Science graduates the largest unemployed group

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/is-off s horing-making-computer-science-graduates-the-largest-unemployed-group. html

The Real Science Crisis: Bleak Prospects for Young Researchers

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Real-Science-Crisis-Bleak/29178


Despite this, my company has been struggling to find skilled software engineers, across all experience levels, for as long as I've worked there. Apparently they all work for Google and Apple.
 
2012-05-09 11:21:03 AM  

GAT_00: Yes, the proper thing is to accept the place the Baby Boomers have decided for you and stop trying to make yourself better.


First piece of advice: Your degree does not make you a better person.

Second piece of advice: If you want to succeed, you need a skill. Fortunately, it's possible to cultivate a skill in almost any field of study. I hope you have been doing this.
 
2012-05-09 11:21:27 AM  
If this law thing doesn't work out, I'm going to lose 600 pounds and join the military.
 
2012-05-09 11:21:28 AM  

thornhill: I think the best advice is be prepared to work in a field completely different than what you majored in, and don't hesitate to apply for a job that was way outside of your major. Except for highly specialized work, when it comes to entry level jobs, no one really cares what your major was.


That's just not true. One of the things I've learned in trying to break away from law as a job rather than something I only do pro bono is that they see your qualifications, then see you're a lawyer and dump you in the "likely to quit this shiatty outdoors job in the next two months" box. Even though that's what I want to do more than anything: be back outdoors.
 
2012-05-09 11:24:17 AM  

AKTurkey: UnspokenVoice: Err... No comments on the error in the headline?

Improper capitalization?


Hmm... Can't tell if serious? (Whilst that may well be true, it isn't the error that I speak of.)
 
2012-05-09 11:24:25 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: So it's pretty much the same thing, with a lot of upside in the likely event tax rates go down.


And this, ultimately, is the real difference between traditional and Roth IRAs: you use the former if you think your particular tax rates will go down over time, and the latter if you think your tax rates will go up over time. Personally, I predict that mine will go up, so I use a Roth.
 
2012-05-09 11:24:29 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Port1080: Taxes are pretty low right now, probably will be higher by the time you retire. Also, starting out in a new job you're probably not in a very high tax bracket. It really depends on your situation, though. If you turned that 5 year engineering BA / MA into an $80k job right out of college, a Roth might not make that much sense.

I agree it probably depends on your situation, but when was the last time tax rates actually went up significantly? Not in my lifetime or my parents' lifetimes.

I suspect that most people's effective tax rate goes down throughout their life. You start out with only your labor (which is taxed at the highest rate). Then, as you get older more and more of your income is shielded from taxes (capital gains, access to deductions such as mortgage interest, etc.) I bet most of us will be paying a far lower tax rate once we retire and are unemployed than now when we're working.


US Government debt is obscenely large and tax rates are at historic lows. Taxes are not going to go down.
 
2012-05-09 11:25:54 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Bob16: >> Don't go to law school,

And definitely stay away from EE and CS too

clip - Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_82739 8 .htm


America's vanishing science jobs

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/america_vanishing _ science_jobs_V3TzWwPRZsmTh1sGmtVr8L

Offshoring making Computer Science graduates the largest unemployed group

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/is-off s horing-making-computer-science-graduates-the-largest-unemployed-group. html

The Real Science Crisis: Bleak Prospects for Young Researchers

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Real-Science-Crisis-Bleak/29178

Despite this, my company has been struggling to find skilled software engineers, across all experience levels, for as long as I've worked there. Apparently they all work for Google and Apple.


Yeah, companies are looking for top talent at entry level salaries. No thanks.
 
2012-05-09 11:26:16 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: Bob16: >> Don't go to law school,

And definitely stay away from EE and CS too

clip - Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_82739 8 .htm


America's vanishing science jobs

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/america_vanishing _ science_jobs_V3TzWwPRZsmTh1sGmtVr8L

Offshoring making Computer Science graduates the largest unemployed group

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/is-off s horing-making-computer-science-graduates-the-largest-unemployed-group. html

The Real Science Crisis: Bleak Prospects for Young Researchers

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Real-Science-Crisis-Bleak/29178

Despite this, my company has been struggling to find skilled software engineers, across all experience levels, for as long as I've worked there. Apparently they all work for Google and Apple.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Sure they are. You couldn't say it on the interwebs if it wasn't true.
 
2012-05-09 11:27:01 AM  

RexTalionis: If this law thing doesn't work out, I'm going to lose 600 pounds and join the military.


Are you my long lost twin or something? I've thought about trying to join the military. I'm probably too old for a waiver though.
 
2012-05-09 11:27:22 AM  

seadoo2006: PYTHON???!?!? The recommended learning PYTHON!?!?! What, should you learn FORTRAN and QBasic as well? Good lord, get with the times ...


No, no, wait; don't tell me: you're a Ruby fanboi.

Am I good or what?
 
2012-05-09 11:27:51 AM  

Skwrl: RexTalionis: Yeah, stay away from law school. Don't do it! Step away from the ledge! (Last advice is relevant if you decided to ignore my other advice.)

I'm an adjunct law professor at a top 20 law school. Many of my students - even the very bright ones with good 1L grades - didn't get 2L summer jobs (which is the traditional way to get the foot in the door).

It's a very, very tough market for recent law school grads these days. And forget the "go to law school only if you're OK with doing the $40k public defender" thing - even those gigs are hard to get.

What was the tag line from the movie "War Games"?


"Your wife??"
 
2012-05-09 11:28:28 AM  

Tumeric: stiletto_the_wise: Bob16: >> Don't go to law school,

And definitely stay away from EE and CS too

clip - Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_82739 8 .htm


America's vanishing science jobs

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/america_vanishing _ science_jobs_V3TzWwPRZsmTh1sGmtVr8L

Offshoring making Computer Science graduates the largest unemployed group

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/is-off s horing-making-computer-science-graduates-the-largest-unemployed-group. html

The Real Science Crisis: Bleak Prospects for Young Researchers

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Real-Science-Crisis-Bleak/29178

Despite this, my company has been struggling to find skilled software engineers, across all experience levels, for as long as I've worked there. Apparently they all work for Google and Apple.

Yeah, companies are looking for top talent at entry level salaries. No thanks.


He's just shortage shouting. You gotta do that if you want those h-1b quotas to stay high.
 
2012-05-09 11:28:59 AM  

Bob16: >> Don't go to law school,

And definitely stay away from EE and CS too

clip - Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_82739 8 .htm


America's vanishing science jobs

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/america_vanishing _ science_jobs_V3TzWwPRZsmTh1sGmtVr8L

Offshoring making Computer Science graduates the largest unemployed group

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/is-off s horing-making-computer-science-graduates-the-largest-unemployed-group. html

The Real Science Crisis: Bleak Prospects for Young Researchers

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Real-Science-Crisis-Bleak/29178


But Bob16, we NEED moar young people in science!!!!

/Cause they'll work for next to nothing
//And don't know enough to complain
///Or we'll get an H2 to do it
 
2012-05-09 11:28:59 AM  

UnspokenVoice: AKTurkey: UnspokenVoice: Err... No comments on the error in the headline?

Improper capitalization?

Hmm... Can't tell if serious? (Whilst that may well be true, it isn't the error that I speak of.)


The numbering is fine if that's what you mean.

"28 Other Pearls"
 
2012-05-09 11:30:25 AM  

stiletto_the_wise: 15. If you can, make your 401(k) contributions Roth IRA-style rather than traditional. When you withdraw the money in retirement (many, many years from now) you will not have to pay income tax on it.

Can someone explain this logic to me? Why would you want to pay taxes on it NOW, when you're working and are in a higher tax bracket, than later, when you're retired, have virtually no income, and have a low tax rate?


This advice is for recent college grads. Their salary at their first job will be relatively low. There is a good liklihood that they will have various income streams that result in a higher income even after they retire.

But even ignore that. Let's say you put $2,000 into a Roth IRA and pay the taxes on the $2,000 now, at age 23 at the tax rate for a $45,000 a year job.

at $45,000 you are taxed a rate of (10% * 8700) + (15% * 26650) + (25% * 9650) or $7280/ 45000 or 16.18%. That would be $323.60

Let's say the remaining $1676.40 grows 5% per year for 40 years.
At age 63, you would have $11,802. $323.60 is 2.75% of $11,802. That extra $10,000 is tax-free. Unless you expect your tax rate to be lower than 2.75%, go for the Roth IRA.

Roth's also allow extra flexibility. Since the taxes have already been taken out of the $1676.40, you can withdraw that money tax- and penalty-free. No early withdrawal penalty on the original principal.

Take advantage of it while you can, because there is a lower income limit for Roths. After about $105k income, you can't put money into those anymore.
 
2012-05-09 11:34:15 AM  
clip - information technology has turned into one of the biggest job-growth disappointments of all time.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_39/b4002001.htm

No Shortage of Technical People

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2009-07-08-science-engineer-jobs _ N.htm
 
2012-05-09 11:34:30 AM  
Ok- honest question. What advice would you give to a second year PhD student in biomedical science? I love research but is it time to leave for something else while the boat is still sinking?
 
2012-05-09 11:35:53 AM  

Salt Lick Steady: thornhill: I think the best advice is be prepared to work in a field completely different than what you majored in, and don't hesitate to apply for a job that was way outside of your major. Except for highly specialized work, when it comes to entry level jobs, no one really cares what your major was.

That's just not true. One of the things I've learned in trying to break away from law as a job rather than something I only do pro bono is that they see your qualifications, then see you're a lawyer and dump you in the "likely to quit this shiatty outdoors job in the next two months" box. Even though that's what I want to do more than anything: be back outdoors.


That's a pretty extreme examples. I don't there are many people with law degrees trying to get a $23k job raking leaves.
 
2012-05-09 11:38:11 AM  

kukukupo: thornhill: 17. Open your wallet. Take out your credit cards. Now cut them up and never use them again. You'll thank me in ten years.

This is just really stupid. Having a large line of credit is extremely useful. The lesson should be: don't put more on your credit card then you can completely pay back in less than 2 months.

There is absolutely no need for a credit card. The wife and I never used one and we had good enough 'credit' to buy a house and a car. If you get an apartment and make rent payments and start paying utilities you won't need a credit card.



Credit cards are a form of insurance for you. When you buy anything, especially online, there's always a risk that someone can gain access to your account. Better that the money in that account belongs to someone else so that you don't wake up tomorrow to find your checking account empty. Also, credit cards provide protection against a seller who fails to deliver what was agreed upon. While the issue is being resolved, you are not out any money. Finally, a credit card is a good idea to have around in case your car, the refrigerator, the oil burner, and the plumbing all fail in the same week. Sure it's better to have a big wad of cash set aside for emergencies, but for young people just starting out, this is unrealistic.
 
2012-05-09 11:40:06 AM  

HotIgneous Intruder: GAT_00: Yes, the proper thing is to accept the place the Baby Boomers have decided for you and stop trying to make yourself better.

That's what my dad thinks. They have mainly assumed an authoritarian mindset to protect their piece of the pie. Boomers are the new fascists.


Which is why you should go into financial asset management, convince the Boomers you are a whiz kid, will get them 30-40% return on their investments and then just steal all the money, bury it in a safe place, do your jail time and live the rest of your life quietly off the money.
 
2012-05-09 11:40:49 AM  

thornhill: Salt Lick Steady: thornhill: I think the best advice is be prepared to work in a field completely different than what you majored in, and don't hesitate to apply for a job that was way outside of your major. Except for highly specialized work, when it comes to entry level jobs, no one really cares what your major was.

That's just not true. One of the things I've learned in trying to break away from law as a job rather than something I only do pro bono is that they see your qualifications, then see you're a lawyer and dump you in the "likely to quit this shiatty outdoors job in the next two months" box. Even though that's what I want to do more than anything: be back outdoors.

That's a pretty extreme examples. I don't there are many people with law degrees trying to get a $23k job raking leaves.


I probably wasn't specific enough; I'd mentioned it above. I want to be a rafting guide or park ranger (interpreter, not enforcer) for the BLM. Over and over I've been found "Best Qualified," then sent to the hiring authority to be snubbed. And I'm not picky about location.

If I wanted to just rake leaves, I'd create my own business.
 
2012-05-09 11:41:03 AM  

thornhill: Real issue. People go to these third tier law schools and are shocked to discover that they're not getting six figure starting offers from big city law firms. It's a combination of a lack of common sense and law schools cooking the books on post-graduation employment data.


At least law schools have to publish something resembling post-graduation employment data. Grad schools don't, and it makes it notoriously difficult for a prospective grad student to know just how marketable his/her degree will be, especially if that degree is a PhD.
 
2012-05-09 11:42:25 AM  

thornhill: I don't there are many people with law degrees trying to get a $23k job raking leaves.


Also: 1.) you'd be surprised and 2.) that's exactly what I'm talking about.
 
2012-05-09 11:42:34 AM  

born_yesterday: Bob16: >> Don't go to law school,

And definitely stay away from EE and CS too

clip - Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_82739 8 .htm


America's vanishing science jobs

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/opinion/opedcolumnists/america_vanishing _ science_jobs_V3TzWwPRZsmTh1sGmtVr8L

Offshoring making Computer Science graduates the largest unemployed group

http://www.computerweekly.com/blogs/inside-outsourcing/2010/09/is-off s horing-making-computer-science-graduates-the-largest-unemployed-group. html

The Real Science Crisis: Bleak Prospects for Young Researchers

http://chronicle.com/article/The-Real-Science-Crisis-Bleak/29178

But Bob16, we NEED moar young people in science!!!!

/Cause they'll work for next to nothing
//And don't know enough to complain
///Or we'll get an H2 to do it

_____________________________________________

What i like is when we see an article that describes somebody with a non-technical degree that can't find work and people show up and start calling that person and idiot for not getting a technical degree which would have "surely" led to a job.

In reality nobody is more stupid than the people that have been oblivious to the death of technical work in america. It died out way back in 2001 ( dot com meltdown ) and here they are 11 years later still clueless.
 
2012-05-09 11:43:03 AM  
Wait until your payment schedule is firmed up on your loans then throw all of your graduation gift money into it. This should buy you at least a year of being able to live without a guaranteed wage. Use this time to go looking for a skill, travel and try to find a job abroad, whatever.

Once you start making money only save money if you get matching funds from a company. Otherwise you will never find an account with an interest rate greater than your loans, so dump everything into them. You can use credit for emergency funds because you're already up to your eyeballs in debt.
 
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