WhiskeySticks: Screw this band...listen to Tragedy.

Subby shouldn't quote marks be around "punk band" in this case?

/Wait, nevermind, I was thinking "Rise Against"
//carry on, punk girlboy, and godspeed

Gay? Straight? TG? Who cares but the hormones are going to change his voice so Against Me, as we know it, is dead. It may turn into something else but you can't sing a song like Thrash Unreal as a soprano.

Monster Island: was wondering how this would work, and how his bandmates feel about it. Power to him for making himself happy, but it is an interesting scenario with the band.

A female fronted band is a very different animal than a male fronted band. Especially when it comes to doing older stuff that used to be sung by a male...

Needless to say, I can't wait to see what the next album sounds like, if there even is one.

It'd be neat to release a live album of all the old classics with their new sound.

Monster Island: If nothing else, it would be fun to come up with a name for the album...

Apparently they already had an eponymous EP, otherwise...

MugzyBrown: Against Me is not punk. If looking for real, classic punk, I go for Green Day

notsureifserious.jpg

MugzyBrown: Against Me is not punk. If looking for real, classic punk, I go for Green Day

Sorry, not going to be dragged in that banal "that ain't punk" discussion. Besides, Green Day isn't punk.

As far as the sex change is concerned, I sometimes feel like a lesbian trapped in a man's body. It would be cool if I had some boobies to squeeze all day. Also, lesbian chicks seem to get more action.

facisto: they are an incredible live band.

I saw them live once opening for Foo Fighters at Oracle Arena and I was very disappointed. I really wanted to like it too - heck, I went to the show to see Against Me! more than the Foos. The venue was way bigger than what they normally play though, so maybe that was part of it.

what a bunch of strange shiat this is

Honey, ever get the feeling you've been cheated?

Monster Island

A female fronted band is a very different animal than a male fronted band. Especially when it comes to doing older stuff that used to be sung by a male...

Actually, the hormones and the genital surgery will not affect her voice. If you go through puberty as a male, your vocal chords will lengthen and nothing short of surgically shortening the vocal chords will change that. Many trans women undergo voice coaching to relearn how to speak in a higher register in order to pass more convincingly.

The band will sound the same.

Jerry Palter: Things have been going really well. We got some gigs here, working at the casinos. It has been a time of changes, but change is good. Change is life.
[camera pulls out to reveal Mark Shubb dressed as a woman]
Mark Shubb: It was like a great big door opening for me... Town Hall... after that concert, I realized I wanted to spend as much of the rest of my life as possible playing folk music with these gentlemen...
Jerry Palter: Right back atcha.
Mark Shubb: ...and I wanted to spend all of it as a woman. I came to a realization that I was - and am - a blonde, female folk singer trapped in the body of a bald, male folk singer and I had to LET ME OUT or I WOULD DIE.
Jerry Palter: When you put it that way, it's almost poetry.
Alan Barrows: Almost.

Am I doing this right? Cause seriously, Harry Shearer's character from A Mighty Wind was the first thing I thought of. Alas, the googles don't have any pics of said transition though, just the pre-op.

MightyPez: LeroyBourne: He's not attracted to women, but he's gonna stayed married? Huh? I know he'll be able to sexually satisfy her, but once that thing gets cut/folded there's no substitution for the real deal.

Here is what the article says:

He says he's not attracted to men and will still be married to his wife.
Pro Tip: After you dump a second puberty full of estrogen into your brain.... a lot of things change. That could be one of them.

"I can't believe how naive I was
to think things could ever be so simple.
And can you live with what you know about yourself,
when you're all alone, behind closed doors,
the things we never said but we always knew were right there.
It's got me on my knees in a bathroom,
praying to a god that I don't even believe in,
"Dear Jesus... are you listening?" "

To think of the pain and confusion that Gabel has suffered through.. It's absolutely heartbreaking. I have been a die-hard fan of this band for 10 years (and will continue to be), and I wish her all the best in this world. I hope she finds the contentment and happiness she's been searching for.

karasoth: MightyPez: LeroyBourne: He's not attracted to women, but he's gonna stayed married? Huh? I know he'll be able to sexually satisfy her, but once that thing gets cut/folded there's no substitution for the real deal.

Here is what the article says:

He says he's not attracted to men and will still be married to his wife.
Pro Tip: After you dump a second puberty full of estrogen into your brain.... a lot of things change. That could be one of them.

Doubtful, how you feel it may change, but what you feel it for probably won't.

CavalierEternal: OptionC: facisto: they are an incredible live band.

I saw them live once opening for Foo Fighters at Oracle Arena and I was very disappointed. I really wanted to like it too - heck, I went to the show to see Against Me! more than the Foos. The venue was way bigger than what they normally play though, so maybe that was part of it.

They play much better to medium to small venues. I saw them at a little run-down, hole-in-the-wall concert club in Toledo, Ohio two years ago and they were absolutely fantastic.

Even better, I got to see Tom's solo show in Cleveland Heights about four years back and I still consider it one of the best shows I've ever been to.

I've never seen them in a big venue, only smaller clubs around Baltimore (recher, sonar, ottobar). They killed it each time.

Magorn: You know it's a funny thing, but of all the transexuals I've known, I don't think A signle one of them went on to live what might be considered a "gender normal" life as their new sex.

I knew one M to F who promptly shaved her head and became a celibate Tibetan buddhist Nun almost immediatly thereafter (and with the buzz cut looked far more like a man than she ever had before)

I knew more than one M to F who stayed married to their wives and made the transofrmation with their wive's whole hearted approval

I guess the closest to ":normal" was the couple who both had reassignment surgeries at the same time and stayed married-at least for a while

Ahh well, as the great Philosopher Ray Davies observed: "Boys will be girls and girls will be boys, it's a mixed up world"

Strangely, these are exactly the sorts of thing that convinced me that transgender was a real thing. I am a woman. I will be a woman no matter what I do and no matter whom I do. If I do a thing, it must be a thing (or a person) that women do.

The fact that someone born a man feels so much like a woman that she would live a life less ordinary after gender reassignment makes me believe that she really does identify as that gender.

karasoth: MightyPez: LeroyBourne: He's not attracted to women, but he's gonna stayed married? Huh? I know he'll be able to sexually satisfy her, but once that thing gets cut/folded there's no substitution for the real deal.

Here is what the article says:

He says he's not attracted to men and will still be married to his wife.
Pro Tip: After you dump a second puberty full of estrogen into your brain.... a lot of things change. That could be one of them.

You really ought to contact the archdiocese. A cure for teh ghey would probably get you a 'get out of hell free' card.

Another Against Me lyric which is quite relevant, off the title track from "Searching For a Former Clarity"

"Confessing childhood secrets of dressing up in women's clothes
Compulsions we never knew the reasons to"

In retrospect, she's been pretty open about to anyone who pays attention to the lyrics.

karasoth: Pro Tip: After you dump a second puberty full of estrogen into your brain.... a lot of things change. That could be one of them.

Are you telling us you're a professional in transgender sexuality?

Science tip: an influx of hormones doesn't change your sexual preference. Bob was not sexually attracted to Jack

MightyPez: Also, I'm always looking for new punk music to get into. I only started listening to it 4ish years ago (now staring down the barrel of 30). Any fans of Against Me! have advice on where I should start with them?

Just go see them live. Absolutely infectious. A ton of energy. I only went because Ted Leo (if you don't know who that is go listen to this right now and prepare to buy all his albums) opened for them and was blown away by how much fun everyone was having on and off stage.

Lucky enough to see them twice in small venues. Really great shows...

"I absorbed my twin in the womb. So now I have the strength of a full grown man, and a tiny baby" -Dwight Schrute

amindtat: Simpsons Keith/Mina Caputo did it.

wow, funny thing is just 2 days ago i was thinking "whatever happened to keith caputo". i used to like some l.o.a. stuff, and when i was stationed in germany his solo band was making a lot of appearances at festivals and on mtv-europe. hadn't heard from "him" in some years, and i guess this explains that

misterhowl: Aren't most gender conflicts just an unrestrained fetish or compulsion? It seems to me most cases of gender conflict are, well, addictions. This applies to people who are obsessed with piercings, tattoos and plastic surgery as well.

Not only are you wrong about gender dysphoria, but also about people who get modified in other ways. The fact is they don't see their external body as representative of how they feel inside. Yes there are people who claim to be "addicted" to tattoos or piercings, but the underlying cause is much deeper than that.

A lot of people get confused when discussing gender dysphoria, and the reason is they simply cannot ever know how someone with it feels. It isn't about sexual orientation, it isn't even about sex. It's about accepting who they are internally and making a physical effort to change who they are externally. Western culture has hangups about sex and gender roles, and anything that doesn't fit into the "norm" confuses and scares people. It's this confusion that leads many people to rationalize it in terms that they do understand, like addiction.

As for your fetish idea, again, you're sexualizing something that doesn't necessarily have to do with sex. Yes people do have fetishes about tattoos and piercings, but that doesn't mean that everyone who is pierced and tattooed is because of a fetish.

People have many reasons for modifying their bodies, yes sex is one, but it isn't the only one, nor is it the primary reason. The point I'm getting at is that it's hard for people to truly understand why someone would alter their body if they themselves have never felt that they weren't comfortable in their own skin.

Monster Island: First disc is old versions with Tom, second disc is new versions with Laura.

If nothing else, it would be fun to come up with a name for the album...

Time Traveling Bunnies: Thought this was cool. Someone pointed out this lyric in his song "The Ocean" from the New Wave album:

"If I could have chosen, I would have been born a woman.
My mother once told me she would have named me Laura.
I would grow up to be strong and beautiful like her. "

As long as Gabel sounds the same, I'm just glad s/he's happy.

First thing that came to mind when I read the story too. That album came out in 2007, so I guess it's been on his (her?) mind for a while.

MightyPez: Also, I'm always looking for new punk music to get into. I only started listening to it 4ish years ago (now staring down the barrel of 30). Any fans of Against Me! have advice on where I should start with them?

Maybe I'm in a minority, but I really liked "New Wave." Every song on the album worked for me. Plus, "The Ocean" is suddenly relevant in all kinds of new ways.

DreamyAltarBoy: karasoth: MightyPez: LeroyBourne: He's not attracted to women, but he's gonna stayed married? Huh? I know he'll be able to sexually satisfy her, but once that thing gets cut/folded there's no substitution for the real deal.

Here is what the article says:

He says he's not attracted to men and will still be married to his wife.
Pro Tip: After you dump a second puberty full of estrogen into your brain.... a lot of things change. That could be one of them.

Doubtful, how you feel it may change, but what you feel it for probably won't.

I would highly encourage you to read up on Transgendered Women

they skew higher homosexual then women in general, and a lot of them become gay for convenience reasons (most of the men attracted to Transgender women are vile scum) but some do develop an attraction to men.

Other things happen. The smells you like change. The type of food you like changes. The type of conversations your active in (vs going...uhuh...uhuh...uhu) change.

From a professional org

What is the relationship between gender identity and sexual orientation?

Gender identity and sexual orientation are not the same. Sexual orientation refers to an individual's enduring physical, romantic, and/or emotional attraction to another person, whereas gender identity refers to one's internal sense of being male, female, or something else. Transgender people may be straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual, or asexual, just as nontransgender people can be. Some recent research has shown that a change or a new exploration period in partner attraction may occur during the process of transition. However, transgender people usually remain as attached to loved ones after transition as they were before transition. Transgender people usually label their sexual orientation using their gender as a reference. For example, a transgender woman, or a person who is assigned male at birth and transitions to female, who is attracted to other women would be identified as a lesbian or gay woman. Likewise, a transgender man, or a person who is assigned female at birth and transitions to male, who is attracted to other men would be identified as a gay man.

http://www.apa.org/topics/sexuality/transgender.aspx

from a transgender faq

Does this have anything to do with sexual orientation?

Gender identity and sexual orientation are different concepts in Western culture. Sexual orientation refers to a person's attractions. Gender identity refers to who a person believes him- or herself to be. Transgender and transsexual people can have any sexual orientation. It is also possible for sexual attraction to change after transition. It is better not to put too much importance on labels such as gay, lesbian, and straight. In many ways, trans people confound the "simple" expectations of sexual orientation that go with such labels.

http://tranifesto.com/transgender-faqs-and-info/transgender-faq/

and these are just from page 1 of the Wikipedia

Sometimes it changes in transition, some times it doesnt. Attraction remains for the partner from before transition (if any)

Keep in mind there is such a thing as Prison Gay. Dudes who aren't homosexual doing other dudes because they don't have another option. When your a guy who has a more heteronormative view of positive sex if your body isn't right your not just attracted to dudes. there is a difference between a guy having sex with a guy and a guy having sex with a girl (or a reasonable facisimile). Once your options change you can explore thoughts and feelings that weren't an option.

Likewise most M2F transsexuals are unable to find a man to be with them for other then pervert reasons. So they can opt to say "eh I guess I'll do girls" because no one wants to be a living sex toy. Your put back in the prison gay scenario

IMDWalrus: Maybe I'm in a minority, but I really liked "New Wave." Every song on the album worked for me. Plus, "The Ocean" is suddenly relevant in all kinds of new ways.

Nah, I loved New Wave too. Thrash Unreal was just the tip of the iceberg. From the intro on Piss and Vinegar to the echo on Up the Cuts, I loved it all. I didn't even realize until a few minutes ago that the female vocalist on "Borne on the FM waves of the Heart" was Tegan Quin. I love that lady so much.

/my ipod might be tuned to this album for the rest of the week

karasoth: DreamyAltarBoy: karasoth: MightyPez: LeroyBourne: He's not attracted to women, but he's gonna stayed married? Huh? I know he'll be able to sexually satisfy her, but once that thing gets cut/folded there's no substitution for the real deal.

Here is what the article says:

He says he's not attracted to men and will still be married to his wife.
Pro Tip: After you dump a second puberty full of estrogen into your brain.... a lot of things change. That could be one of them.

Doubtful, how you feel it may change, but what you feel it for probably won't.

I would highly encourage you to read up on Transgendered Women

they skew higher homosexual then women in general, and a lot of them become gay for convenience reasons (most of the men attracted to Transgender women are vile scum) but some do develop an attraction to men.

Other things happen. The smells you like change. The type of food you like changes. The type of conversations your active in (vs going...uhuh...uhuh...uhu) change.

We obviously have a problem understanding each other, so I'm not going to defend a point I didn't make. However it seems your previous post contradicts your following post regarding orientation vs. gender. Or once again we're up against the ambiguity of language.

So let me be clear about what I mean, and I'm coming from the perspective of knowing a few transgendered people (although not enough for scientific rigor).

Generally orientation doesn't change through gender transition.

Now I know why my friend (cis male gender crossing) is so pedantic about the semantics.

I farked the semantics again! If you liked girls as a guy, you'll still like them as a girl (usually).

IMDWalrus: Maybe I'm in a minority, but I really liked "New Wave." Every song on the album worked for me. Plus, "The Ocean" is suddenly relevant in all kinds of new ways.

The songs weren't bad but the album was over produced. I don't think this band should have that much polish on it as they sound better with grit.

well, good for him.

Link


This is what their next album will sound like



I blame butch vig for this

I hate it when people say "I felt like a [sex] trapped in a [opposite sex] body." I hate it even more when people who self-identify as feminists support this nonsense. Is gender essential or not? If its not essential, then one cannot feel like a wo/man, because there is no essential identity that is fe/male. In order for someone to "feel like a wo/man," there must be an essential gender identity.

The vast majority of feminists will nod sagely and support a transgendered person who claims to "feel like a wo/man," and yet these same people will argue til their blue in the face that gender is not essential.

Cognitive dissonance much?

I don't really care about transgendered issues one way or another, but farking hell, as someone who gives a shiat about philosophy, the entire dialog around these issues just drives me up the farking wall. It pisses me off to no end that one gets slapped immediately with the label transphobic (which implies one wants to cause harm to transsexuals) if one takes any sort of issue with the whole discussion of trans issues.

I for one do not believe that anyone can "feel like a [sex] trapped in a [opposite sex] body" because I do not believe one can "feel like a [sex]." I also do not believe that sexual reassignment surgery can convert a person from one sex to another, and think if we were being honest it would be called "secondary gender attribute modification surgery." I also don't believe that a man who undergoes a surgery becomes a woman, because there are real issues of the is of identity that cannot be addressed by Franksteinian surgeries. History matters, and the reality is that women were born girls and developed into women. Laura will always have been born male, raised as a boy, undergone extreme plastic surgery and hormone treatment, and chosen to be identified as a woman. That is not the history of a woman, and claiming Tom became a woman is a false claim on many levels. Acknowledging that doesn't mean I'm transphobic, it means I'm not going to be badgered and intimidated into denying facts about reality by the More PC Than Thou crowd.

But whatever, hope Laura finds her happiness. /rant off

skepticultist: I hate it when people say "I felt like a [sex] trapped in a [opposite sex] body." I hate it even more when people who self-identify as feminists support this nonsense. Is gender essential or not? If its not essential, then one cannot feel like a wo/man, because there is no essential identity that is fe/male. In order for someone to "feel like a wo/man," there must be an essential gender identity.

The vast majority of feminists will nod sagely and support a transgendered person who claims to "feel like a wo/man," and yet these same people will argue til their blue in the face that gender is not essential.

Cognitive dissonance much?

I don't really care about transgendered issues one way or another, but farking hell, as someone who gives a shiat about philosophy, the entire dialog around these issues just drives me up the farking wall. It pisses me off to no end that one gets slapped immediately with the label transphobic (which implies one wants to cause harm to transsexuals) if one takes any sort of issue with the whole discussion of trans issues.

I for one do not believe that anyone can "feel like a [sex] trapped in a [opposite sex] body" because I do not believe one can "feel like a [sex]." I also do not believe that sexual reassignment surgery can convert a person from one sex to another, and think if we were being honest it would be called "secondary gender attribute modification surgery." I also don't believe that a man who undergoes a surgery becomes a woman, because there are real issues of the is of identity that cannot be addressed by Franksteinian surgeries. History matters, and the reality is that women were born girls and developed into women. Laura will always have been born male, raised as a boy, undergone extreme plastic surgery and hormone treatment, and chosen to be identified as a woman. That is not the history of a woman, and claiming Tom became a woman is a false claim on many levels. Acknowledging that doesn't mean I'm transphobic, it means I'm not going to be badgered and intimidated into denying facts about reality by the More PC Than Thou crowd.

But whatever, hope Laura finds her happiness. /rant off

Yes. It is most definitely an issue of genetics, psychology, and environment.

A person has some issue or issues identifying with the self and the place of the self in society. The person witnesses the way that those of the other gender fit into society, and would like to experience that or some version of that rather than staying in his or her current role.

It is not at all supported by science that a person is simply born this way, and strains basic logic to presume that he or she would have he same compulsion absent the particular environmental factors (societal, familial, etc.) that he or she experienced.

Saying this does not mean that I deny the validity of the choice. I just got done playing in a Men's League softball game with a coworker in transition. I have zero issue with anyone who makes this choice, I have an issue with political correctness getting ahead of science and even seeking to marginalize it.

DKinMN: Saying this does not mean that I deny the validity of the choice. I just got done playing in a Men's League softball game with a coworker in transition. I have zero issue with anyone who makes this choice, I have an issue with political correctness getting ahead of science and even seeking to marginalize it.

Dude, THIS. Thank you for putting it in better words than I could.