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(Talking Points Memo)   North Carolina to gays: Equal rights - not yours   (2012.talkingpointsmemo.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, North Carolina, same-sex marriages, domestic partnerships, cohabitations, LGBT rights, civil unions  
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11119 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2012 at 10:59 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-09 06:00:40 AM  
I hope all decent human beings avoid North Carolina and any other backassward bigoted state from now until they grow up.

This battle has already been won by the good guys. We just need to stamp out the little angry fires from the scumbag dimwits.
 
2012-05-09 06:01:34 AM  
There are gays (still) in NC?
 
2012-05-09 06:01:56 AM  
This is a sad day, not only for NC, but for the whole world, and the civil rights' movement gets shoved back in the closet one more time. :(
 
2012-05-09 06:02:31 AM  

CujoQuarrel: untaken_name: in order for marriage to be a right,

Marriage is a right. The Supreme Court said so back in 1967.

But they did not say you can marry just anyone or some inanimate object.

All male humans in the USA have the right to marry any female human if they are of legal age. Since all of the people have the same right this is not discrimination.


The way I see it, men can marry women but not men. Women can marry men but not women. A man doesn't have equal rights that a woman does, and vice versa.

Or is gender-based law okay for you? Let's turn all the women out of the boardrooms, legislatures, and armed forces uniforms, those are men's jobs.
 
2012-05-09 06:05:22 AM  

untaken_name: Then why is weed illegal? Oh, right, because you're wrong.


You can thank racism for pot being illegal. Racism and a head of the AMA who lied through his teeth to the Congress. It wasn't like it was that long ago that pot was made illegal.
 
2012-05-09 06:07:38 AM  
I just wanted to say, as someone who oft ends up trying to defend Christianity in threads like this, I'm sorry people are using my faith to cause pain. I'm really angry, and I'm really upset, and I'm tired of having to be linked to close-minded bigots like the ones that showed up at polls today in NC. It's not the truth of what we're supposed to be about, and I hope one day (preferably sooner rather than later) they see that.


/Used to live in Elizabethtown
 
2012-05-09 06:11:33 AM  

Fluorescent Testicle: Does anybody know of any countries that fill the following three requirements:

- English as its main language.
- Warm climate (preferably tropical, maybe desert).
- Gay-friendly, including full legal protection with marriage rights.

I'm sick of being treated like a fourth-class citizen in both of my home countries.


South Africa?
 
2012-05-09 06:12:06 AM  

WhyteRaven74: untaken_name: Then why is weed illegal? Oh, right, because you're wrong.

You can thank racism for pot being illegal. Racism and a head of the AMA who lied through his teeth to the Congress. It wasn't like it was that long ago that pot was made illegal.


Laws do almost nothing else *but* enforce social values.

Racism was once an accepted social behavior. As it's been deemed more and more anti-social, the laws have been changing to reflect that.

Murder and rape are more than taking something that doesn't belong to you. In our culture, they're just *wrong*. It fascinates the hell out of us when we see people who don't think these things are wrong. It's all about values. How we spend our money -- budgets are laws -- reflects our values. Education? Religion? Warfare, against whom? Prisons, welfare, medicine? All values.

The Constitution? Values intelligently implemented.
 
2012-05-09 06:17:26 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: As it's been deemed more and more anti-social, the laws have been changing to reflect that.


What's funny is that many laws in regards to race never existed in many states. Like I mentioned earlier, Illinois never had any law forbidding interracial marriage. And back in 1963 it got rid of all laws that made homosexuality illegal. Think about that, in 1963 they did this.

. It fascinates the hell out of us when we see people who don't think these things are wrong

I can't offhand think of any culture on Earth that doesn't think murder and rape are wrong. How they handle them may vary.
 
2012-05-09 06:17:35 AM  

WhyteRaven74: untaken_name: Then why is weed illegal? Oh, right, because you're wrong.

You can thank racism for pot being illegal. Racism and a head of the AMA who lied through his teeth to the Congress. It wasn't like it was that long ago that pot was made illegal.


It was almost a century ago, but whether that's not that long ago depends on one's age, I suppose. Also, racism IS a value system and the law is, indeed, enforcing it. This is because the law exists to enforce society's collective values.
 
2012-05-09 06:21:50 AM  

The_Great_Hambino: I wonder if people 30+ years from now will look at the gay marriage "debate" as we now look at the Civil Rights Movement.


If people 30 years down the road are that farking stupid*, I'm going to blow my brains out.

Seriously, as BULLSHIAT at this is, as homophobic and UNCONSTITUTIONAL as it is, the gay rights movement is not like the Civil Rights movement.The end game is similar, and it's not that being gay is "easy" in some parts of this nation, but the only slavery in the gay community has taken place on South Park. For every Matthew Shepard, there were a thousand black men whose name wasn't important enough to print in the newspaper.

*anticipating that there are no serious, violent clashes in the gay rights movement, decades of lynchings in literally every town, communities that ban homosexuals from living in certain parts of town, and so forth... actually, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if towns started banning homosexuals....
 
2012-05-09 06:22:01 AM  

Sass-O-Rev: This is a sad day, not only for NC, but for the whole world, and the civil rights' movement gets shoved back in the closet one more time. :(


I dunno, sometimes a defeat really makes things better. Facebook is exploding. You can't put this genie back in the bottle.
 
2012-05-09 06:22:12 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Lenny_da_Hog: As it's been deemed more and more anti-social, the laws have been changing to reflect that.

What's funny is that many laws in regards to race never existed in many states. Like I mentioned earlier, Illinois never had any law forbidding interracial marriage. And back in 1963 it got rid of all laws that made homosexuality illegal. Think about that, in 1963 they did this.

. It fascinates the hell out of us when we see people who don't think these things are wrong

I can't offhand think of any culture on Earth that doesn't think murder and rape are wrong. How they handle them may vary.


Because you are unaware of them - does that mean they don't exist?

Link
 
2012-05-09 06:23:17 AM  

WhyteRaven74: Lenny_da_Hog: As it's been deemed more and more anti-social, the laws have been changing to reflect that.

What's funny is that many laws in regards to race never existed in many states. Like I mentioned earlier, Illinois never had any law forbidding interracial marriage. And back in 1963 it got rid of all laws that made homosexuality illegal. Think about that, in 1963 they did this.

. It fascinates the hell out of us when we see people who don't think these things are wrong

I can't offhand think of any culture on Earth that doesn't think murder and rape are wrong. How they handle them may vary.


But every culture defines those terms differently. Think of the recent Stand Your Ground/Make My Day law cases, or revenge killings, or the killing of women who disappoint you in some cultures.

Then admit that the law *is* there to promote values and move on.
 
2012-05-09 06:25:22 AM  

quatchi: rynthetyn: And the worst part is that the Marcus Bachmanns and other ex-gay therapists of the world are telling vulnerable people that if they just get straight married and start going through the hetero motions that they'll stop being gay.

Marcus Bachmann admits he does help clients who "ask for help with same sex attraction" but declares "it is not the focus of the business".

Undercover activists have tape of his clinic's workers seemingly offering prayer as a way to stop being gay.

The notion that one can "pray the gay away" is absolutely absurd.

Everybody knows that hug therapy is the only way to make sure.

Gotta hug it out!

Okay, I was just kidding there. Is late. I'mma silly person.


More hugs for everyone!

I must say, as far as the "pray the gay away" stuff goes, as much as I feel like an idiot for not figuring out that I was gay until I was in my 20s, I'm ridiculously thankful that I was oblivious as a teenager back in my days in right-wing activist circles. If I'd figured it out back then, I have very little doubt that I would have found myself shipped off to "pray the gay away" therapy and have been convinced it was good for me.
 
2012-05-09 06:26:09 AM  

puffy999: The_Great_Hambino: I wonder if people 30+ years from now will look at the gay marriage "debate" as we now look at the Civil Rights Movement.

If people 30 years down the road are that farking stupid*, I'm going to blow my brains out.

Seriously, as BULLSHIAT at this is, as homophobic and UNCONSTITUTIONAL as it is, the gay rights movement is not like the Civil Rights movement.The end game is similar, and it's not that being gay is "easy" in some parts of this nation, but the only slavery in the gay community has taken place on South Park. For every Matthew Shepard, there were a thousand black men whose name wasn't important enough to print in the newspaper.

*anticipating that there are no serious, violent clashes in the gay rights movement, decades of lynchings in literally every town, communities that ban homosexuals from living in certain parts of town, and so forth... actually, I guess I wouldn't be surprised if towns started banning homosexuals....


I suggest you look deeper into the history of the gay rights movement. There has been a hell of a lot more violence than Matthew Shepard.
 
2012-05-09 06:26:56 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: DrBenway: FishStampede: Lot of people hating on southerners, hillbillies, and the state I love here. I just want to say, this state is not irredeemable. My home county voted overwhelmingly against Amendment One and we're situated right in the middle of the mountains.

Your stereotypes are bad and you should feel bad.

60-40 says you should be embarrassed for the entire state. I know I am, and I'm in Buncombe County.

I now understand why you escape to The Interzone.


Indeed.

Confabulat: I hope all decent human beings avoid North Carolina and any other backassward bigoted state from now until they grow up.

This battle has already been won by the good guys. We just need to stamp out the little angry fires from the scumbag dimwits.


Kind of running out of states to not avoid, aren't we? NC is merely the newest one among many.
 
2012-05-09 06:31:40 AM  

TV's Vinnie: Why are there so many god-damn hillbillies and goosesteppers in this country, and how much gasoline would it require to burn them all into the ground?


Bout 15 kg of uranium should do the trick.
 
2012-05-09 06:35:47 AM  
Does this mean that I won't be able to marry that dolphin I met at the beach?
 
2012-05-09 06:40:51 AM  

Biological Ali: More to the point, this is another instance of bigots actively seeking out and getting outraged by behaviour by gay people that they wouldn't give a second thought to if it was being done by heterosexuals


No, I'm pretty sure that in his little example, people would be upset no matter what groups were involved.
 
2012-05-09 06:42:58 AM  

rynthetyn: More hugs for everyone!


Hugs are good! ^_^

I must say, as far as the "pray the gay away" stuff goes, as much as I feel like an idiot for not figuring out that I was gay until I was in my 20s, I'm ridiculously thankful that I was oblivious as a teenager back in my days in right-wing activist circles. If I'd figured it out back then, I have very little doubt that I would have found myself shipped off to "pray the gay away" therapy and have been convinced it was good for me.

Having looked into some of these "pray the gay away" boot camps for gay youth sponsored by various religious organizations it sounds like you really dodged a bullet there.

Ever see the South Park episode where Butter's parents mistakenly think Butters is gay and send him off to one of those places?

Sad, brutal and funny, one of their better episodes.
 
2012-05-09 06:45:37 AM  

puffy999: Biological Ali: More to the point, this is another instance of bigots actively seeking out and getting outraged by behaviour by gay people that they wouldn't give a second thought to if it was being done by heterosexuals

No, I'm pretty sure that in his little example, people would be upset no matter what groups were involved.


No, they're right. The anti-gay marriage thing is a non-issue that effects no one but the targetted group. If the gay couple next door are "roommates" or married, it does not effect me or anyone except them or maybe thier families. This is bigoted brwad and circuses, a way for the GOP to lock up the fundie vote.
 
2012-05-09 06:52:54 AM  
Maybe you'll make it into the 20th century one of these days, Tar Heels...
 
2012-05-09 07:03:02 AM  

Little.Alex: What I believe is that marriage is between a man and a woman

Well, what I believe, in my faith, is that a man and a woman, when they get married, are performing something before God, and it's not simply the two persons who are meeting.... What it does mean is that we have a set of traditions in place that, I think, need to be preserved,

I was just directly, word for word, quoting Barrack Hussein Obama.

"I believe that marriage is the union of one man and one woman. Now for me as a Christian, there is also God in the mix. "

In that you tube, he also takes time to say he thinks it's just dandy for states to ban ghey marriage.



Well, I certainly can't say much for you and your faith, because I just watched the video and... guess what? You're lying your ass off. And if you're lying, you're not doing much to help your case in the eyes of God.

You were not directly quoting President Barack Obama. "Well, what I believe, in my faith, is that a man and a woman, when they get married, are performing something before God, and it's not simply the two persons who are meeting.... What it does mean is that we have a set of traditions in place that, I think, need to be preserved," is what you said. That is quite different from what is said in the video.

Also, nowhere in the video does he say he thinks it's just dandy to ban ghey marriage. More lies to help you support your beliefs. I bet you just kinda skip over the whole Leviticus bit too, because it's inconvenient?

So please, next time you desire to stand up for your convictions and beliefs, defend your religion, don't use tactics that go against your religion (bearing false witness) to try and prove a point. Or are you really gonna tell me you're that good a Christian?
 
2012-05-09 07:09:38 AM  

quatchi: rynthetyn: More hugs for everyone!

Hugs are good! ^_^

I must say, as far as the "pray the gay away" stuff goes, as much as I feel like an idiot for not figuring out that I was gay until I was in my 20s, I'm ridiculously thankful that I was oblivious as a teenager back in my days in right-wing activist circles. If I'd figured it out back then, I have very little doubt that I would have found myself shipped off to "pray the gay away" therapy and have been convinced it was good for me.

Having looked into some of these "pray the gay away" boot camps for gay youth sponsored by various religious organizations it sounds like you really dodged a bullet there.

Ever see the South Park episode where Butter's parents mistakenly think Butters is gay and send him off to one of those places?

Sad, brutal and funny, one of their better episodes.


Yeah, from what I've read about some of those places, that South Park episode is probably fairly accurate.

I'd completely forgotten about this until recently, but I remember back probably when I was in middle school, I read some article in Focus on the Family's magazine about some woman who was claiming to be ex-gay who told all about her sordid life story and how then she decided she didn't like her life and needed to change, and presto chango, after a little bit of therapy she was now happily married with children. I remember thinking that her past life sounded pretty exciting and that it seemed rather a good deal to go off and live that lifestyle for a while if all you had to do when you got bored of it was go through a little bit of therapy, get a dramatic life story out of the deal, and then settle down.
 
2012-05-09 07:15:08 AM  

KiplingKat872: puffy999: Biological Ali: More to the point, this is another instance of bigots actively seeking out and getting outraged by behaviour by gay people that they wouldn't give a second thought to if it was being done by heterosexuals

No, I'm pretty sure that in his little example, people would be upset no matter what groups were involved.

No, they're right. The anti-gay marriage thing is a non-issue that effects no one but the targetted group. If the gay couple next door are "roommates" or married, it does not effect me or anyone except them or maybe thier families. This is bigoted brwad and circuses, a way for the GOP to lock up the fundie vote.


This is not true. The marital status of citizens affects (not "effects" as that would mean "creates" in this context) people around them. People whose marriage is recognized by the state receive benefits that other people don't get - paid for by you and other taxpayers, in part. This is why marriage shouldn't be a state matter and NO marriages should receive state blessings or benefits. Then, there would be no financial stake in keeping anyone out of the marriage business and no more debate about what is and isn't a legal marriage.
 
2012-05-09 07:17:09 AM  

LeoffDaGrate: don't use tactics that go against your religion (bearing false witness)


"Bearing false witness" means, specifically, "perjury". There's no specific biblical prohibition against deception, and, in fact, it is specifically condoned on more than one occasion. This is not meant to invalidate your entire post, just to clarify what "bearing false witness" actually means.
 
2012-05-09 07:18:33 AM  

rynthetyn: Yeah, from what I've read about some of those places, that South Park episode is probably fairly accurate.

I'd completely forgotten about this until recently, but I remember back probably when I was in middle school, I read some article in Focus on the Family's magazine about some woman who was claiming to be ex-gay who told all about her sordid life story and how then she decided she didn't like her life and needed to change, and presto chango, after a little bit of therapy she was now happily married with children. I remember thinking that her past life sounded pretty exciting and that it seemed rather a good deal to go off and live that lifestyle for a while if all you had to do when you got bored of it was go through a little bit of therapy, get a dramatic life story out of the deal, and then settle down.


Lawls. CSS! Christians do seem to love their '100th sheep returning to the fold' stories.

No one more zealous than a convert, as they say.

If the story you read wasn't totally made up there's a good chance a heavy Valium scrip was involved in her presto chango conversion.
 
2012-05-09 07:25:51 AM  
Meh. Move to a real state. Some we can simply write off and just bring them to heel via the feds.
 
2012-05-09 07:29:33 AM  
Just when you think you live in Best Carolina...along comes this type of crap that drags you right back to South Carolina's level.
 
2012-05-09 07:29:59 AM  
My girlfriend got harassed so hard by a customer talking about this amendment that she had to walk away before she bodyslammed him. He told everyone that if the amendment did not pass that it would be the end of civilization because no one would have children anymore. Uh wat?

/Same guy also yelled at same place about the office being "the devil's work"
//Lives in NC
 
2012-05-09 07:30:11 AM  

quatchi: rynthetyn: Yeah, from what I've read about some of those places, that South Park episode is probably fairly accurate.

I'd completely forgotten about this until recently, but I remember back probably when I was in middle school, I read some article in Focus on the Family's magazine about some woman who was claiming to be ex-gay who told all about her sordid life story and how then she decided she didn't like her life and needed to change, and presto chango, after a little bit of therapy she was now happily married with children. I remember thinking that her past life sounded pretty exciting and that it seemed rather a good deal to go off and live that lifestyle for a while if all you had to do when you got bored of it was go through a little bit of therapy, get a dramatic life story out of the deal, and then settle down.

Lawls. CSS! Christians do seem to love their '100th sheep returning to the fold' stories.

No one more zealous than a convert, as they say.

If the story you read wasn't totally made up there's a good chance a heavy Valium scrip was involved in her presto chango conversion.


It might have even been an early story about Focus on the Family's ex-gay poster couple, John and Anne Paulk, and we all know how that story ended--with John Paulk getting photographed in a gay bar while out on an ex-gay speaking tour.

In any case, the fact that this supposedly sordid "gay lifestyle" complete with the implicit promise that I could have it all--have my fun and then flip a switch get the husband, the kids and the picket fence as expected--sounded so appealing should have probably been a hint.
 
2012-05-09 07:30:19 AM  

CognaciousThunk: Looks like the folks in NC prefer threesomes...


Only for the marriage. God's nowhere to be found at the divorce... which is still perfectly acceptable. Seems hypocritical to me.
 
2012-05-09 07:31:28 AM  
This thread is exhausted, but shiat lIke this is why my wedding dollars will be spent in Iowa.
 
2012-05-09 07:31:48 AM  

DrFrenchfry: /Same guy also yelled at same place about the office being "the devil's work"


To be fair, I've worked in an office or two in my time, and I'm hard-pressed to refute that claim.
 
2012-05-09 07:32:14 AM  
As the owner of a gun store in a county which voted 74% in favor of this amendment: I'm so very sorry. I promise not all of us are as backwards as shiat like this makes us look. Although we are, quite clearly, massively outnumbered.
 
2012-05-09 07:34:02 AM  

quatchi: If the story you read wasn't totally made up there's a good chance a heavy Valium scrip was involved in her presto chango conversion.


Why do so many people seem to think that sexual orientation is binary? Many people can swing both ways. Think of it as scale of one to ten. With one being straight, and ten being absolutely gay.
It would be interesting to see a study that showed the true distribution of the population on that scale. Of course since there's no way to measure someones true natural orientation without religious and societal influences, we probably won't ever get a good measurement.

Still, I'm going to bet that many anti-gay crusaders would end up much higher on that scale than they would admit.
 
2012-05-09 07:39:06 AM  

untaken_name: People whose marriage is recognized by the state receive benefits that other people don't get - paid for by you and other taxpayers, in part.


How is visiting your mate in the hospital paid for the by the taxpayer? How are health insurance paid for by the taxpayer?

About the only thing that do get is a break on their taxes.

untaken_name: This is why marriage shouldn't be a state matter and NO marriages should receive state blessings or benefits. Then, there would be no financial stake in keeping anyone out of the marriage business and no more debate about what is and isn't a legal marriage.


This I agree with to a great extent, except it causes problems with child custody.
 
2012-05-09 07:39:48 AM  

KiplingKat872: How are health insurance paid for by the taxpayer?


How does I learn grammar?

/Sorry.
 
2012-05-09 07:40:08 AM  
Hey, gays, come to Massachusetts.

You tend to have above-average income, and use fewer services like schools, since you tend to have fewer kids.

So, you're great for our tax base.
 
2012-05-09 07:43:16 AM  

Little.Alex: People didn't vote to oppress you; they don't care about you. They voted to preserve a part of their culture, because certain people decided to attack it.


If that's your culture, then your culture is an ass.

And as for nothing existing in the Bible;
Leviticus 18:22: "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination."


Precisely what Andrew Sullivan referred to as "bullschitt." The Bible also says "thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" (Exodus 22:18). Shall we start burning people at the stake again? Oh, and "Thou shalt neither vex a stranger, nor oppress him: for ye were strangers in the land of Egypt" (Ex. 22:21), so deporting the Scary Brown People would seem to be just as un-Christian as teh ghey.

Exodus 22 has even more gems: "Thou shalt not revile the gods" (the Bible itself reviles every god but one!) "nor curse the ruler of thy people" (22:28) (so all y'all always spewing off about B. Hussein Osama are going to burn in hell right beside George Washington and the bunch who beheaded Louis XVI?).

img820.imageshack.us
 
2012-05-09 07:45:11 AM  

rynthetyn: It might have even been an early story about Focus on the Family's ex-gay poster couple, John and Anne Paulk, and we all know how that story ended--with John Paulk getting photographed in a gay bar while out on an ex-gay speaking tour.


An ex-male escort and drag queen (Candi was his stage name) photographed in a gay bar?

Damn, who'da thunk it. After they tossed his ass him and his wife set up a catering business, apparently, according to wiki. Well, at least that's honest work.

In any case, the fact that this supposedly sordid "gay lifestyle" complete with the implicit promise that I could have it all--have my fun and then flip a switch get the husband, the kids and the picket fence as expected--sounded so appealing should have probably been a hint.

Yeah, unfortunately reality is not rife with things that sound too good to be true that actually end up being true.

Don't know about anyone else but I'm getting a real kick out of watching this thread approach triple digits. If people scroll waaaay waaay waaay back you'll find a few posts asserting how little people care about this issue.

Riiiiight.
 
2012-05-09 07:46:31 AM  
quadruple not triple.

S'late here.
 
2012-05-09 07:52:25 AM  
Woke up angry still. This is going to be a fine day in NC.

Tell me again why we should tolerate the religious extremists in our midst?

Oh, right, because they're the ones pulling the strings.

/you want persecution? I'll show you persecution
//so angry :(
 
2012-05-09 07:55:03 AM  

KiplingKat872: How is visiting your mate in the hospital paid for the by the taxpayer? How are health insurance paid for by the taxpayer?

About the only thing that do get is a break on their taxes.


Hey, lookie here! You already knew one of the ways! Here's a list of some others: Link

There's a lot on that list that impacts you; it's not just the tax breaks.

Also, I never referred to any of the things you mentioned - you decided that I must have been talking about visiting people in the hospital or private insurance. I would note, however, that for public employees, you are paying the spouse's insurance, and there are a LOT of government employees.
 
2012-05-09 07:55:43 AM  
Heh... digging the rage here.
 
2012-05-09 07:57:11 AM  

The_Sponge: rynthetyn: Pro tip: Barack Obama was officially opposed to Amendment One. And Prop 8 in California, and every other bigoted law banning marriage equality.


And yet he still claims that he personally believes that marriage should only be between a man and a woman. So either:

1) You guys think he's a bigot.

2) He's bullshiatting the public regarding his stance as a means of protecting his poll numbers.

So which is it?


Or perhaps the third option: He personally believes that marriage should be between a man and a woman, but knows that some churches/groups/people believe otherwise and it is not the government's job to decide for them? That other people being allowed to get married is in no way going to invalidate his marriage?
 
2012-05-09 07:57:12 AM  

residentgeek: Woke up angry still. This is going to be a fine day in NC.

Tell me again why we should tolerate the religious extremists in our midst?

Oh, right, because they're the ones pulling the strings.

/you want persecution? I'll show you persecution
//so angry :(


They probably outnumber us, in NC, too.

I look forward to the first supreme court test of this new amendment. It will be a fun little game of the Fed saying to the states "Right to remove rights from a class of citizens: not yours"
 
2012-05-09 07:57:34 AM  

Ball Sack Obama: Heh... digging the rage here.


As a "right moderate social libertarian" shouldn't you also be enraged?
 
2012-05-09 07:58:15 AM  

eldritch2k4: The_Sponge: rynthetyn: Pro tip: Barack Obama was officially opposed to Amendment One. And Prop 8 in California, and every other bigoted law banning marriage equality.


And yet he still claims that he personally believes that marriage should only be between a man and a woman. So either:

1) You guys think he's a bigot.

2) He's bullshiatting the public regarding his stance as a means of protecting his poll numbers.

So which is it?

Or perhaps the third option: He personally believes that marriage should be between a man and a woman, but knows that some churches/groups/people believe otherwise and it is not the government's job to decide for them? That other people being allowed to get married is in no way going to invalidate his marriage?



Also: Why just the two options? Maybe sometimes:
upload.wikimedia.org
 
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