BART is the worst of the worst.

It's open season on passersby -the only restitution is if the officers in question get caught on camera "hunting" people. Then when the public protests -they do everything in their power to prevent publicity of the events.

Why don't they just dismantle the whole system?

ok, f*ck it. i'm gonna build portable battery powered wi-fi hubs and sell 'em on ebay. I think there's a market in developing reliable, low cost, portable, open source communication platforms that anyone can bring with 'em and use to pass messages along in the event of a government attempt to shut down free and open communications among citizens.

f*ck you guys. seriously.

Weaver95: ok, f*ck it. i'm gonna build portable battery powered wi-fi hubs and sell 'em on ebay. I think there's a market in developing reliable, low cost, portable, open source communication platforms that anyone can bring with 'em and use to pass messages along in the event of a government attempt to shut down free and open communications among citizens.

EIP. Seriously.

Weaver95: ok, f*ck it. i'm gonna build portable battery powered wi-fi hubs and sell 'em on ebay. I think there's a market in developing reliable, low cost, portable, open source communication platforms that anyone can bring with 'em and use to pass messages along in the event of a government attempt to shut down free and open communications among citizens.

f*ck you guys. seriously.

I like your idea and wish to bid at your auction

fluffy2097: Weaver95: ok, f*ck it. i'm gonna build portable battery powered wi-fi hubs and sell 'em on ebay. I think there's a market in developing reliable, low cost, portable, open source communication platforms that anyone can bring with 'em and use to pass messages along in the event of a government attempt to shut down free and open communications among citizens.

f*ck you guys. seriously.

And what am I going to do with 50 square meters of 169.254.*.* address space that is not connected to the outside world? Throw a LAN party to fight the man?

it's connected to the other protesters...which is the entire point. the cops can't shut it down without arresting the ENTIRE crowd, then going through the contents of all their backpacks and purses.

fluffy2097: I don't need WiFi to talk with someone within shouting distance of me...


you do if you want to talk to 500 people nearest you all at the same time...


They want to shutdown communication networks to prevent the organization of flash mobs of shoe bombers or something. If you are within wifi range of the site, you are already past organizing flash mobs.

then I see nothing wrong with making things easy for the protesters to organize.

This is why I carry radio gear instead of a cellphone. You can shut down cell service. You can't shut down the electromagnetic spectrum. Radios that don't depend on intervening infrastructure to communicate can't be just "shut down" by government fiat. They'll still work.

fluffy2097: dittybopper: This is why I carry radio gear instead of a cellphone. You can shut down cell service. You can't shut down the electromagnetic spectrum. Radios that don't depend on intervening infrastructure to communicate can't be just "shut down" by government fiat. They'll still work.

They can be blocked out with a more powerful transmitter.

ah yes...but not without thwacking their own communications in the process....

fluffy2097: Weaver95: you do if you want to talk to 500 people nearest you all at the same time...

I have an idea that's cheaper and doesn't require computers.

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which is illegal at any protest these days. seriously - pull out a bullhorn at a protest and the cops will taser your ass and cart you away.

gozar_the_destroyer: Noise can be made great enough to limit your broadcast area to effectively 0 range. Also, you are transmitting a very traceable signal so they could just come and break your gear instead. And maybe you for trying to defy them..

trust me...the cops aren't equipped to track down random wifi/radio signals in the middle of a protest.

gozar_the_destroyer: Selective jamming isn't too hard to do. .

actually, yeah - it is. plus, it's also against FCC rules so even if the cops DID spend the cash for that sort of set up, the FCC would slap 'em down hard for doing it.

personally, i'd LOVE to see the cops spending exhorbitant amounts of cash on ECM/ECCM gear. that's the sort of thing that makes someone like me happy in the bank account. I'd sell to both sides.

fluffy2097: Weaver95: which is illegal at any protest these days. seriously - pull out a bullhorn at a protest and the cops will taser your ass and cart you away.

Somehow... I doubt it. East and West coast representing the bullhorn fo shizzle.

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doubt it all you want, all I know is that if you pull out a bullhorn at an OWS protest you WILL be arrested and you will end up in a cell.

fluffy2097: Weaver95: that's the sort of thing that makes someone like me happy in the bank account. I'd sell to both sides.

NOW I see why you want to make a useless wifi AP.

I didn't realize you worked for Linksys. :P

oh yes...'useless'. please keep thinking so...makes it so much easier.

fluffy2097: Weaver95: doubt it all you want, all I know is that if you pull out a bullhorn at an OWS protest you WILL be arrested and you will end up in a cell.

Can you try it for me? I'm waaaay to comfy in my chair annoying the Fark alcoholics to go out and actually rabble rouse for science.

how 'bout you waddle down to your local OWS protest and start blaring out something on yer bullhorn. lemme know how that works out for yaz.

Weaver95: gozar_the_destroyer: Selective jamming isn't too hard to do. .

actually, yeah - it is. plus, it's also against FCC rules so even if the cops DID spend the cash for that sort of set up, the FCC would slap 'em down hard for doing it.

personally, i'd LOVE to see the cops spending exhorbitant amounts of cash on ECM/ECCM gear. that's the sort of thing that makes someone like me happy in the bank account. I'd sell to both sides.

Effectively jamming a local radio signal is hard. You need a high power transmitter unless you are right near the damn things.

dittybopper: Effectively jamming a local radio signal is hard. You need a high power transmitter unless you are right near the damn things.

they could do it, but it'd require a special set up. hmm...at a minium, a dedicated comms vehicle with seperate power source and broadcast array. plus you'd have to issue specially modified walkie talkies to the cops so that they wouldn't lose comms. and even then ground clutter would f*ck with your jamming signal.

I figure you'd get to use the damn thing once (maybe twice) before the FCC came swooping in and got in your face about it. they really do not like broad spectrum jamming by civilians. that shiat is mil-spec only, cops need not apply.

gozar_the_destroyer: dittybopper: This is why I carry radio gear instead of a cellphone. You can shut down cell service. You can't shut down the electromagnetic spectrum. Radios that don't depend on intervening infrastructure to communicate can't be just "shut down" by government fiat. They'll still work.

Noise can be made great enough to limit your broadcast area to effectively 0 range.

That's very tough to do, the police don't have the equipment *AND* it's illegal for them to jam the public airwaves. Only the military is allowed to do that, and I can't see them being involved in something like that.

Also, you are transmitting a very traceable signal so they could just come and break your gear instead. And maybe you for trying to defy them.

This fear is *VASTLY* overstated.

First, to trace a radio signal the radio has to be transmitting. You can't DF a radio that is in receive. Secondly, in order to triangulate a signal you either have to have at least two separate fixed stations, or a mobile station that can take bearings from widely separated areas. Those readings tend to be confounded greatly by reflections in urban areas.

Secondly, once you stop transmitting, they can no longer tell where you are. You transmit your message, then move to a different location. You put the radio in your pocket so that it's not obvious that you have one.

\we need cells and only use in person communication or pre-arranged codes.

You can utilize those, along with radio communications.

Trust me, I used to be in the SIGINT business. Google "ditty bopper" to see what I used to do. I'm also a bit of a student of the history of it, and I keep up on current tech. The tech might change and get more advanced, but the basic principles remain the same.

Ironically, while they are less secure against casual eavesdropping, short range analog radios are *MORE* secure than cellphones against government snooping. A cellphone periodically transmits it's location, and the service providers keep a record of that, and of what numbers were called. Just that alone can provide a lot of information. A radio, on the other hand, doesn't do that. If you aren't listening when they are being used, that information is lost forever, and while you can tell where a transmitter is using special equipment, you can't tell who is listening, or where they are.

dittybopper: Trust me, I used to be in the SIGINT business. ...

I used to be in VQ-2, way back in the day. suffice to say I learned some neat tricks there.

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Because People in power are Stupid: BART is the worst of the worst.

It's open season on passersby -the only restitution is if the officers in question get caught on camera "hunting" people. Then when the public protests -they do everything in their power to prevent publicity of the events.

Why don't they just dismantle the whole system?

Dismantle the entire BART system? Yeah, that sounds like a great plan. I'm sure that those riders can just walk across the Bay Bridge to get to work, amirite?

They've got thumbs. They can hitchhike.

Weaver95: dittybopper: Trust me, I used to be in the SIGINT business. ...

I used to be in VQ-2, way back in the day. suffice to say I learned some neat tricks there.

I've got a ham radio friend who was at Rota, back in the late 1960's/early 1970s. He was a Navy dittybopper.