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(Forbes)   Why high school sports need to die   (forbes.com) divider line 107
    More: Hero, high school sports  
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6564 clicks; posted to Sports » on 08 May 2012 at 1:40 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-08 12:16:40 PM
Bigger fail:
-Headline, both on fark and on the linked editorial, states the opposite of the opinion of the author?
-Hero tag ambiguous and inappropriately used regardless of which side of the argument it is assigned?
-Harv72b doesn't get "it"?
 
2012-05-08 12:31:08 PM
Never happen.

There are large swaths of the country where high school sports are the only
game in town for anyone to see live play.
 
2012-05-08 12:40:56 PM

Harv72b: -Harv72b doesn't get "it"?


Subby never played sports in high school and hated everyone who did. Hence the "hero" tag for killing off high school sports.

Subby was in the physics club, where they talked about physics and properties of physics. At the end of the year, subby dressed up and attended a banquet along with the other children in the club.
 
2012-05-08 12:43:00 PM
This is actually more true than I thought based on my experience with my son. Travel teams get FAR more notice these days than 20 years ago. Scouts consider them at least as important as high school...and depending on the area MORE important depending on the team.

My son has played travel ball since he was 13. He's a damn good hitter (average fielder). He was cut from the high school team his junior year (which was a shock to just about everyone...including the same kids he beat out for his travel team). That summer he played travel ball and hit .388 with an OBP of .500. This year he made the high school team but declined to play in order to work out and prep for summer ball with his hitting/fielding coach.

He's received offers from a couple of JUCOs and DII schools based on his performance last summer as well as some video I made of him hitting/fielding. He'll play JUCO and see if he can continue to improve.
 
2012-05-08 12:44:33 PM

Mark Ratner: Harv72b: -Harv72b doesn't get "it"?

Subby never played sports in high school and hated everyone who did. Hence the "hero" tag for killing off high school sports.

Subby was in the physics club, where they talked about physics and properties of physics. At the end of the year, subby dressed up and attended a banquet along with the other children in the club.


Subby sounds like a dork.
 
2012-05-08 01:03:22 PM
When you don't like something in the US and you don't have a great argument for why, just say "we should follow the European model" and you will get countless numbers of people that have never been to Europe and hate sports to agree with you.

Yes, travel teams are more important for some sports than the HS teams. That has nothing to do with whether HS sports should exist. Then again, I come from an area where we have maybe a couple of professional athletes come out of the entire half of the state per year, so most athletes are doing it for fun, exercise, and to have the opportunity to represent their school across a larger geographic area than they might otherwise get to go to.

Then again, in my school, a lot of the science nerds also didn't have any problem with the jocks and usually did go to many athletic events - the more you're tied into the school, the more you're going to support others who are tied in with the school, at least in my experience.
 
2012-05-08 01:37:27 PM

Lucky LaRue: Mark Ratner: Harv72b: -Harv72b doesn't get "it"?

Subby never played sports in high school and hated everyone who did. Hence the "hero" tag for killing off high school sports.

Subby was in the physics club, where they talked about physics and properties of physics. At the end of the year, subby dressed up and attended a banquet along with the other children in the club.

Subby sounds like a dork.


Subby sounds fat.
 
2012-05-08 01:43:40 PM
...but then how will I impress similarly-aged strangers at random functions with over-inflated stats?

/used to be able to throw a football a quarter-mile
 
2012-05-08 01:45:34 PM

DjangoStonereaver: Never happen.

There are large swaths of the country where high school sports are the only
game in town for anyone to see live play.


That's part of the problem: HS football in the south is...disturbing.
 
2012-05-08 01:47:34 PM

PunchDrunkPanda: ...but then how will I impress similarly-aged strangers at random functions with over-inflated stats?

/used to be able to throw a football a quarter-mile


tyandnat.files.wordpress.com

/Also used to be able to throw a football a quarter mile
//over them mountains
 
2012-05-08 01:53:36 PM
AAU sports is a farking cesspool and anyone who supports that garbage over the traditional high school sports model should be beaten.
 
2012-05-08 01:53:44 PM
I've heard the argument on NPR that "pay to play" teams may be increasing the number of players that come from a wealthier background to pick up sports scholarships. I would be interested to see how prevalent that practice is because I was unaware that it was even a thing.
 
2012-05-08 01:56:18 PM
It's mainly true for soccer, baseball and basketball. I've never even heard of club football at the high school age level, other than 7-on-7 squads. It's not the same thing. And for basketball:

PowerSlacker: AAU sports is a farking cesspool and anyone who supports that garbage over the traditional high school sports model should be beaten


This.
 
2012-05-08 01:56:33 PM
I got my varsity letter in bowling

/yeah... sports is pretty much a waste in high school
 
2012-05-08 02:04:26 PM

Mark Ratner: Harv72b: -Harv72b doesn't get "it"?

Subby never played sports in high school and hated everyone who did. Hence the "hero" tag for killing off high school sports.

Subby was in the physics club, where they talked about physics and properties of physics. At the end of the year, subby dressed up and attended a banquet along with the other children in the club.


Hey, I remember those banquets when I was in high school. As a jock, I found it easy to bang all of the really cute physics girls.
 
2012-05-08 02:07:03 PM

PunchDrunkPanda: ...but then how will I impress similarly-aged strangers at random functions with over-inflated stats?

/used to be able to throw a football a quarter-mile


i121.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-08 02:07:39 PM
If there weren't after-school sports (and music) in high school, I probably wouldn't have gone. I probably wouldn't have gone to college either.
 
2012-05-08 02:08:22 PM
Here's a thought, maybe let kids play sports just for fun of it, instead of being forced to live their parents failed dreams of making the pros?
 
2012-05-08 02:08:51 PM
I was in a lot better shape when I had 2 hours of soccer practice every day after school. In any event, I've found high school sports to be a lot less crazy than club sports in that age group. And really, it's college sports that need to die. High school sports are pretty much open to the entire student body. College sports are for the lucky few and subsidized by everyone else (and college football might be profitable at the larger schools, but it's really just an unpaid development league for the NFL). I don't know about other schools, but back in the day at my HS, even if you didn't make the varsity, you still got treated fairly on the JV. (Has it really been 20 years now?)
 
2012-05-08 02:10:32 PM

Rwa2play: That's part of the problem: HS football in the south is...disturbing.


In some part of the South, yes:

static.businessinsider.com

/I'm more concerned with sports at the college level. In high school, anyone halfway athletic can get on some team, and a higher percentage of students tend to participate as players and/or spectators.
 
2012-05-08 02:15:17 PM
Let me guess, so nerds, fatties and queers don't have to feel so bad about their inadequacies?
 
2012-05-08 02:15:38 PM

slayer199: This is actually more true than I thought based on my experience with my son. Travel teams get FAR more notice these days than 20 years ago. Scouts consider them at least as important as high school...and depending on the area MORE important depending on the team.

My son has played travel ball since he was 13. He's a damn good hitter (average fielder). He was cut from the high school team his junior year (which was a shock to just about everyone...including the same kids he beat out for his travel team). That summer he played travel ball and hit .388 with an OBP of .500. This year he made the high school team but declined to play in order to work out and prep for summer ball with his hitting/fielding coach.

He's received offers from a couple of JUCOs and DII schools based on his performance last summer as well as some video I made of him hitting/fielding. He'll play JUCO and see if he can continue to improve.


The whole point of the article was that kids like yours and rising college costs are making everyone thrust their kids into sports in order to get scholarships.
 
2012-05-08 02:16:05 PM

Lucky LaRue: Mark Ratner: Harv72b: -Harv72b doesn't get "it"?

Subby never played sports in high school and hated everyone who did. Hence the "hero" tag for killing off high school sports.

Subby was in the physics club, where they talked about physics and properties of physics. At the end of the year, subby dressed up and attended a banquet along with the other children in the club.

Subby sounds like a dork.


And a jock. And a princess. And a basket case. And a criminal
 
2012-05-08 02:20:44 PM

GQueue: It's mainly true for soccer, baseball and basketball. I've never even heard of club football at the high school age level, other than 7-on-7 squads. It's not the same thing. And for basketball:

PowerSlacker: AAU sports is a farking cesspool and anyone who supports that garbage over the traditional high school sports model should be beaten

This.


I'm not at all familiar with AAU - what's the knock on it?
 
2012-05-08 02:21:58 PM
Ex-College CoachFatty nerd Explains Why High School Sports Should Die

Fixed
 
2012-05-08 02:24:31 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I got my varsity letter in bowling

/yeah... sports is pretty much a waste in high school


That might be worse than being on the fencing team.
 
2012-05-08 02:24:52 PM
Club teams only work in some areas for some sports. Around here(SoCal), club soccer and club lacrosse. Prep football, baseball, basketball, wrestling, volleyball, track and field, golf, waterpolo, etc all are at their highest competitive level in the high school sports system.
 
2012-05-08 02:28:15 PM

Robo Beat: GQueue: It's mainly true for soccer, baseball and basketball. I've never even heard of club football at the high school age level, other than 7-on-7 squads. It's not the same thing. And for basketball:

PowerSlacker: AAU sports is a farking cesspool and anyone who supports that garbage over the traditional high school sports model should be beaten

This.

I'm not at all familiar with AAU - what's the knock on it?


Here's a good article about it. Essentially, the club sports system abuses preteen basketball players. Take high school sports away, and the same crap will happen with football and other sports.
 
2012-05-08 02:29:42 PM

muck4doo: MaudlinMutantMollusk: I got my varsity letter in bowling

/yeah... sports is pretty much a waste in high school

That might be worse than being on the fencing team.


Well, it was harder to put your eye out, anyway

/broken toes, on the other hand...
 
2012-05-08 02:30:28 PM

slayer199: This is actually more true than I thought based on my experience with my son. Travel teams get FAR more notice these days than 20 years ago. Scouts consider them at least as important as high school...and depending on the area MORE important depending on the team.

My son has played travel ball since he was 13. He's a damn good hitter (average fielder). He was cut from the high school team his junior year (which was a shock to just about everyone...including the same kids he beat out for his travel team). That summer he played travel ball and hit .388 with an OBP of .500. This year he made the high school team but declined to play in order to work out and prep for summer ball with his hitting/fielding coach.

He's received offers from a couple of JUCOs and DII schools based on his performance last summer as well as some video I made of him hitting/fielding. He'll play JUCO and see if he can continue to improve.


You are paying a "hitting/fielding" coach for the chance to go play JUCO ball?

Want to buy some lottery tickets? I mean, they are a week old, but you still got a shot...
 
2012-05-08 02:32:08 PM

Robo Beat: GQueue: It's mainly true for soccer, baseball and basketball. I've never even heard of club football at the high school age level, other than 7-on-7 squads. It's not the same thing. And for basketball:

PowerSlacker: AAU sports is a farking cesspool and anyone who supports that garbage over the traditional high school sports model should be beaten

This.

I'm not at all familiar with AAU - what's the knock on it?


It's a private, non-profit, sports organization. Volunteer coaches and divorced from standard governing bodies (high schools are part of leagues which in turn have governing bodies). Lots of corruption, agents posing as coaches, etc going on in the AAU. AAU basketball is about as dirty as high school recruiting ever gets. Basically agents and recruiters realized if they got the kids out of the high school and into a private league they could do whatever the hell they wanted and thus the AAU was born. Agents are paying the kids, colleges are paying the agent so they can talk to the kid, etc.

/volunteer high school hockey coach
 
2012-05-08 02:35:09 PM
Go play intramurals brother.
 
2012-05-08 02:36:55 PM

bhcompy: Club teams only work in some areas for some sports. Around here(SoCal), club soccer and club lacrosse. Prep football, baseball, basketball, wrestling, volleyball, track and field, golf, waterpolo, etc all are at their highest competitive level in the high school sports system.


I doubt that for baseball, basketball, and maybe volleyball. You may not hear about them as much, but those are all pretty club heavy sports no matter where you are.

And out of season tournaments in individual sports (wrestling, T&F) allow you to compete against others not in your class, so they are probably of "higher" competetive level even if the passion is less.

Also, some sports have the "club" aspect really tied to the high school teams; for example, the national club cross country championship only lets you use a team where all the members come from the same school.
 
2012-05-08 02:36:57 PM

FinFangFark: Mark Ratner: Harv72b: -Harv72b doesn't get "it"?

Subby never played sports in high school and hated everyone who did. Hence the "hero" tag for killing off high school sports.

Subby was in the physics club, where they talked about physics and properties of physics. At the end of the year, subby dressed up and attended a banquet along with the other children in the club.

Hey, I remember those banquets when I was in high school. As a jock, I found it easy to bang all of the really cute physics girls.


Probably one of the many reasons subby hates high school sports. Jocks like you stole all the good puss. (Like subby had a chance in hell.)
 
2012-05-08 02:37:49 PM

ha-ha-guy: Robo Beat: GQueue: It's mainly true for soccer, baseball and basketball. I've never even heard of club football at the high school age level, other than 7-on-7 squads. It's not the same thing. And for basketball:

PowerSlacker: AAU sports is a farking cesspool and anyone who supports that garbage over the traditional high school sports model should be beaten

This.

I'm not at all familiar with AAU - what's the knock on it?

It's a private, non-profit, sports organization. Volunteer coaches and divorced from standard governing bodies (high schools are part of leagues which in turn have governing bodies). Lots of corruption, agents posing as coaches, etc going on in the AAU. AAU basketball is about as dirty as high school recruiting ever gets. Basically agents and recruiters realized if they got the kids out of the high school and into a private league they could do whatever the hell they wanted and thus the AAU was born. Agents are paying the kids, colleges are paying the agent so they can talk to the kid, etc.

/volunteer high school hockey coach


This. I have some good AAU stories from friends that volunteered over the years.

One of my favorites is about guard Stephen Jackson. Apparently they had to practically board his windows and doors to his hotel room on trips, b/c at night he's sneak out the first chance he got to go looking for girls to impregnate, and shiat to steal.

It got so bad, that they had to have coaches on a rotating shift sitting outside his room, making sure he wouldn't sneak out.
 
2012-05-08 02:40:42 PM
I disagree. I had nothing but positive experiences competing in high school. Volleyball in particular was an amazing time. Great sport.
 
2012-05-08 02:46:48 PM

ArkAngel: Lucky LaRue: Mark Ratner: Harv72b: -Harv72b doesn't get "it"?

Subby never played sports in high school and hated everyone who did. Hence the "hero" tag for killing off high school sports.

Subby was in the physics club, where they talked about physics and properties of physics. At the end of the year, subby dressed up and attended a banquet along with the other children in the club.

Subby sounds like a dork.

And a jock. And a princess. And a basket case. And a criminal


www.tampabay.com

So, it was sorta social. Demented and sad, but social.
 
2012-05-08 02:49:14 PM
They certainly need to stay the hell off of ESPN and other television networks. Gambling on high school games is ridiculous.
 
2012-05-08 02:51:25 PM

TheShavingofOccam123: They certainly need to stay the hell off of ESPN and other television networks. Gambling on high school games is ridiculous.


Sarah Phillips, that you?
 
2012-05-08 02:57:57 PM
I didn't read the article, but fark that shiat.

HS sports were my introduction to athletics, and was the doorway to a healthy lifestyle. I was not an athletic kid, as I went to a Christian school where brainwashing was far more important than a healthy body, so when I finally got kicked out and went to public school the first thing I did was join sports....all year round. Football, wrestling, and outdoor track, and I LOVED it. I started to get in shape, I made life long friends, and I learned that there was a decent athlete inside of that fat little boy (cue rape jokes). I didn't become a professional athlete, but the things I learned in HS sports have helped shape me into the Man I am today, as well as helped keep me healthy and much happier.

HS sports are important.
 
2012-05-08 03:10:02 PM

bacongood: bhcompy: Club teams only work in some areas for some sports. Around here(SoCal), club soccer and club lacrosse. Prep football, baseball, basketball, wrestling, volleyball, track and field, golf, waterpolo, etc all are at their highest competitive level in the high school sports system.

I doubt that for baseball, basketball, and maybe volleyball. You may not hear about them as much, but those are all pretty club heavy sports no matter where you are.

And out of season tournaments in individual sports (wrestling, T&F) allow you to compete against others not in your class, so they are probably of "higher" competetive level even if the passion is less.

Also, some sports have the "club" aspect really tied to the high school teams; for example, the national club cross country championship only lets you use a team where all the members come from the same school.


Like I said, it's regional. It's not the case in Southern California, where CIF Southern Section is considered the top competition club or prep for most sports. The colleges and junior colleges recruit out of high school rather than out of travel teams for the most part because of the wealth of high quality talent.
 
cot
2012-05-08 03:11:24 PM

bacongood: You are paying a "hitting/fielding" coach for the chance to go play JUCO ball?

Want to buy some lottery tickets? I mean, they are a week old, but you still got a shot...


There's always the outside chance that his kid's enjoying playing baseball and he doesn't view the cost of coaching as simply a financial investment.

You never know.
 
2012-05-08 03:13:35 PM

bacongood: You are paying a "hitting/fielding" coach for the chance to go play JUCO ball?

Want to buy some lottery tickets? I mean, they are a week old, but you still got a shot...


He already has 2 offers to play JUCO. He has another workout with a D2 team next week. Had he played HS his junior year, he might have had a shot for more but he was cut (coach's excuse: worried about my son's throwing arm as he had shoulder surgery a few months before tryouts...despite the fact he was relatively healthy and hit very well during tryouts).

When he made the HS Team this year he spoke to the JUCO coach (the first one that approached him) and asked him if it would hurt him if he didn't play HS ball and said he'd rather spend the time prepping for summer travel. The coach told him it wouldn't hurt because he didn't play last year.

Point is that HS ball doesn't matter as much as it used to since travel ball has become so competitive.
 
2012-05-08 03:15:37 PM
Yay obesity!!!!

Fark sports. Let's replace PE with a trip to Mcdonalds!!
 
2012-05-08 03:17:48 PM

slayer199: bacongood: You are paying a "hitting/fielding" coach for the chance to go play JUCO ball?

Want to buy some lottery tickets? I mean, they are a week old, but you still got a shot...

He already has 2 offers to play JUCO. He has another workout with a D2 team next week. Had he played HS his junior year, he might have had a shot for more but he was cut (coach's excuse: worried about my son's throwing arm as he had shoulder surgery a few months before tryouts...despite the fact he was relatively healthy and hit very well during tryouts).

When he made the HS Team this year he spoke to the JUCO coach (the first one that approached him) and asked him if it would hurt him if he didn't play HS ball and said he'd rather spend the time prepping for summer travel. The coach told him it wouldn't hurt because he didn't play last year.

Point is that HS ball doesn't matter as much as it used to since travel ball has become so competitive.


From what I understand, HS is only for the basic skills. If a thrower can hit a certain velocity, and if a batter has a certain combo of swing and power. If they see a basic foundation, it's all retaught at the next level, whether it's in rookie ball in the minors, or in college, right?
 
2012-05-08 03:20:53 PM

ha-ha-guy: It's a private, non-profit, sports organization. Volunteer coaches and divorced from standard governing bodies (high schools are part of leagues which in turn have governing bodies). Lots of corruption, agents posing as coaches, etc going on in the AAU. AAU basketball is about as dirty as high school recruiting ever gets. Basically agents and recruiters realized if they got the kids out of the high school and into a private league they could do whatever the hell they wanted and thus the AAU was born. Agents are paying the kids, colleges are paying the agent so they can talk to the kid, etc.

/volunteer high school hockey coach


You don't think this happens via highschool atheltics?
 
2012-05-08 03:22:34 PM

FinFangFark: From what I understand, HS is only for the basic skills. If a thrower can hit a certain velocity, and if a batter has a certain combo of swing and power. If they see a basic foundation, it's all retaught at the next level, whether it's in rookie ball in the minors, or in college, right?


Reteach? Not exactly. But they do use benchmarks, particularly for pitching, to let you in the door, and they will rework mechanics as necessary, though swings generally aren't one of them(depending on the hitting coach, though).
 
2012-05-08 03:29:58 PM

Rwa2play: DjangoStonereaver: Never happen.

There are large swaths of the country where high school sports are the only
game in town for anyone to see live play.

That's part of the problem: HS football in the south is...disturbing ..the best.


ftfy
 
2012-05-08 03:32:27 PM
What a good idea. Kids are not fat enough yet and there is not enough of a gap between inner cities and rural America.
 
2012-05-08 03:45:52 PM
I had to participate in club sports, there was no high school ice hockey team down here in South Florida when I was growing up. From there I was able to get a scholarship to Northeastern for hockey so it worked out. If anyone says that high school sports are necessary is wrong, at least in my case.

Although, I wish that there was a hockey team in my high school. I probably could have stolen some of that sweet poon from the brickhead mongos on the football team. I know I got some interesting looks from the chicks in my econ class when they announced that I got a scholarship for hockey on the morning announcements.
 
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