There's arguably worse no-future degrees than Medieval History... Children's Theater.
Babysitting and acting without pay, although Pedobear approves.

i have a phd and need to look for a job fairly soon, so i'm getting a kick out of this thread....

Cythraul: No one needs to know what happened during the medieval period.

Apparently not everyone at every college does.

Cyclometh: When a job slinging burgers and requiring no education pays more than a job in education requiring an advanced degree, you know this country has a problem.

When people respond to this issue by saying that someone should take a job in fast food over working in education, you know this country is done for.

We will reap the benefits of what we value as a society. Since we obviously value fast food over people with degrees in history, it's no surprise to see what a feces-strewn downward spiral this nation is on.

The idea that everyone must go to college (and the increasing pressure that followed to go to grad school, because a bachelor's degree became as valuable as a high school diploma) has created a glut of useless, but well educated people like the chick in the article. There are only so many positions available to do her "dream job", she should have known that. It's a shame she was too stupid to see that she needed something to fall back on. The fact that she continues to pursue it even though she can't provide for herself and her child doing it is testimony to her selfishness. The epidemic of that kind of selfishness is what's leading the downward spiral.

Felgraf: I'm just trying to figure out where I should start looking for things. I'm a Physics Ph.D. student, and I've still got about two years left before I get my degree, but, well, I figure it's good to start planning, I suppose...

National labs pay good money for postdocs. Hard to convert to permanent staff in the current funding climate, though, if that's your long-term goal.

Anyway, regardless of where you want to go, it's never too early to start networking. Give lots of conference talks so people recognize your name and work. Chat up people at some places you might want to work at (this is a hit and miss strategy, because they're often not hiring, but they can introduce you to people). Collaborate.

As for academia, even if you're good at teaching, beware that most colleges will still evaluate you strongly or even primarily on your research (even at supposedly teaching-oriented institutions), so don't let that slide.

What field are you in, anyway?

EatHam: I can't understand why people pay money to get a Ph.D in something like medieval history. Sure, it's interesting, but does eating later in life not occur to these people?

I'm pleased that not too many people in here are using medieval studies as the whipping-boy, but it needs to be explained nevertheless: you get a PhD in a very specific field because you're basically becoming the world expert on that topic, but that's not what you're limited to teaching. The woman in this article is likely teaching European and world history survey courses, and would also be able to teach writing courses in some schools. What we study and what we do to earn our paycheck are not the same thing.

The Muthaship: has created a glut of useless

They're hardly useless. And how about faulting the schools a bit for paying badly?

netizencain: Can someone smart do the math. $900 a month seems very low. Perhaps if she got a real job instead of her current one she could make more.

@20 hours a week(FTFA), that equates to $10.40/HR. She'd make more in retail. Or NOT at a community college.

WhyteRaven74: And how about faulting the schools a bit for paying badly?

Don't get me started on the pricing of a college education, and then crying poverty to their employees.

Cyclometh: When a job slinging burgers and requiring no education pays more than a job in education requiring an advanced degree, you know this country has a problem.

When people respond to this issue by saying that someone should take a job in fast food over working in education, you know this country is done for.

We will reap the benefits of what we value as a society. Since we obviously value fast food over people with degrees in history, it's no surprise to see what a feces-strewn downward spiral this nation is on.

This is also a problem of available skills in the marketplace. 50 years ago, an advanced degree in history was much rarer than it is today. The value of the skill is worth less because there's more people possessing it. The value of fast food skill is essentially the same because pretty much anyone can do it.

An economist would say that this is a natural function of market efficiency. An educator would say that we need to value the skill more by paying more for it. That economic efficiency is no way to run a society. The educator's opinion has merit, but the problem we run into is how do we pay for a skill with a market demand that won't naturally pay for it and how do we determine what is the correct level of compensation for what is economically a misallocation of educational resources.

Essentially, how and what do we pay medieval history professors when we have more medieval history professors than the market wants?

Cythraul: Yes, yes. Certain degrees are worthless in today's culture. I guess having experts around in subjects such as specific historical periods is superfluous. We should get rid of such educational programs. We don't need experts in such fields anyway. No one needs to know what happened during the medieval period. Not important.

As a specialist in the year 1374, I have to disagree.

/Did you know that Edward III granted Geoffrey Chaucer a gallon of wine a day for the rest of his life, starting on April 23rd? He's my hero.

Donnchadha: lets invest in our future. Put more money into schools of all levels.

I agree in principle, but it seems we would have to draw the line somewhere on education for education's sake. Why on earth do we absolutely need someone to, say, spend their life studying the first 3 months of the life of Henry the VI -- and expect a living out of it?

you teach 2 classes... assume that's 6 credit hours.
from what I remember from college, each in-class hour lead to around 3 out of class hours.
so, 4x6 = 24 hours per week.

no, you can't survive and support a child on 1 part time job alone. get a second job.

I studied history for undergrad and have a MLIS, so I'm getting a kick of these replies....

No, really. I deal with enough shiat from certain people who claim I wasted both of my educations because I didn't do engineering or a BBA. A MLIS is apparently a "designer degree" too, as you don't need to go to school to check out books to people.

Mind you, the people who make these comments dropped out of school at grade 9/10 and joined the military.

Wow. All I have is a GED and I've worked my way up to approx 36, 000/yr. Yes, I barely live on that.I am a single mom w/ a 19 yr old in local community college. It pays bills and not much else but I have never been on welfare or food stamps. Actually, I found out I'm not eligible for medical assistance or welfare support when I had an unfortunate accident last summer and needed emergency care. (Now I just have another big bill to pay off). I don't know what my point is, but, for today I'm just happy to be surviving on my own. My main monthly bills are current and I'm not starving. I don't know what tomorrow will bring, but, nobody really does. Times get hard and I get depressed sometimes.

I keep encouraging my girl to continue with her college courses, though. I've educated myself through reading, but, I want her to have more than I had. Even if it does't benefit her financially down the road, she'll probably still be enriched from the experience and having followed through with the work to get to where she wants to go, even if it doesn't get her there. *sigh* These are tough times.

melopene: I'm actually having a back-and-forth with a friend from my PhD program. We both have TT jobs for the fall; I'm graduating this week and he's graduating this summer.

Must be nice to be in a field that hires fresh PhDs straight into TT positions. A postdoc (or two, or three) has become near-mandatory in a lot of fields.

Tough to get that worked up for film studies and medieval history majors.

Not everyoen that gets a PHD in those fields is going to be able to teach. You need a back-up plan, and pinning your hopes on becoming a professor isn't that bright.

The_Original_Roxtar: so, 4x6 = 24 hours per week.

Because class time is the only time spent on the job.

tommydee: Why on earth do we absolutely need someone to, say, spend their life studying the first 3 months of the life of Henry the V

Why on earth do we need so many MBAs? See how that works?

CommieTaoist: I'm kind of more worried by this:

FTFA: "That's how she feels compelled to start a conversation about how she, a white woman with a Ph.D. in medieval history and an adjunct professor, came to rely on food stamps and Medicaid."

As if it would be perfectly fine to assume that an African-American woman with a PhD in medieval history and an adjunct professor would be on food stamps and Medicaid...

I came here to say this but I'm glad I'm not the first. Her racism and classism is appalling, as is that implied in the article and of those readers who will nod in agreement and sympathy at her "horrible plight."


I received a BA in comparative religious studies, I thought about going to grad school for a Masters then PhD in religious studies but I knew that the job prospects were horrible so now I'm an office grunt making more than most of the adjunct professors here. (Although I occasionally still have wistful dreams of going back into religious studies.)

Even though I'm an atheist I've enjoyed reading religious scholarship and learned a lot of useful information from it, for example from Torah scholars and their disciples I learned that abortion itself does not violate halakha. So I don't see a damn thing wrong with your "ideal career" and do sympathize with the compromises you've had to make. Perhaps you will eventually find your way back on track.

In the extremely unlikely event you don't already know this, and for the up-cheering of those who aren't yet convinced of it, it's still a good idea to continue reading in your field for several reasons, including the ego gratification you'll get when you realize you know something a full professor hasn't yet learned.
And blogging can be a great way to share in the scholarly community and gain the respect of others in the field. (I'd be blogging myself but it seems I have nothing to say that anybody wants to read except to tell me I'm crazy or somehow subhuman.)

junkmetal: Meh, she picked her "bliss" over a useful study or vocation. Follow your bliss after you have a job that can pay for it.

History isn't a useful field of study? Teaching isn't a useful vocation? George Santayana laughs at your foolishness. Colleges are increasingly screwing their faculty by using "adjunct" professors instead of regular professors on a tenure track.

IAmRight: It is - they just think it's extremely good pay because they base their pay scales on costs in 1300.

/f*ck Arizona as a place to work, had the displeasure of working there a decade ago.

I'm doing fine here. Pulling down four groats and a hogshead of mead fortnightly!

Rapmaster2000: An economist would say that this is a natural function of market efficiency. An educator would say that we need to value the skill more by paying more for it. That economic efficiency is no way to run a society. The educator's opinion has merit, but the problem we run into is how do we pay for a skill with a market demand that won't naturally pay for it and how do we determine what is the correct level of compensation for what is economically a misallocation of educational resources.

While I don't wish to undervalue the role of economists in our society I believe there is a place for history, the arts, music, poetry, etc. that economics and market demand may not support but are necessary to living truly rich lives.

RexTalionis: The Stealth Hippopotamus: It's just an apprenticeship. You get treated like dirty and you dont get pay enough. Then later you have a job for life.

What, you think adjuncts actually get hired for full-time faculty positions? Most of the time, the university or college just exploit them for cheap labor and keep them as part-time adjuncts.

Same thing happens in the Sciences where this version of the Ponzi scheme is called a postdoc.

/400 applicants for every open spot.

WhyteRaven74:
Why on earth do we need so many MBAs? See how that works?

We actually have way too many MBAs and JDs.

/has an mba
//i advise people against spending the time and money to get one, but everyone loves more education
///i have to convince myself not to get a JD

"I find it horrifying that someone who stands in front of college classes and teaches is on welfare," she says.

Funny, any administration finds it gratifying to pay so little and get so much.

I know what of I speak intimately.

If anything, an adjunct prof is more like a journeyman.
In which time period?

This woman does need to move to where there is more demand for teaching, or get a second unrelated job.

But the adjunct system is heavily abused. I once worked at a place where students paid $45K/year in tuition, or about $1500 per credit hour. Adjuncts were paid about one student's tuition payments for that class, and even assuming 50% for overhead... the school was still making out like a bandit. Have an adjunct teach a lecture course and the profit margins are astronomical.

A bigger problem: why is medieval studies taught at a community college? The only thing dumber than teaching medieval studies at a community college is taking it.

WhyteRaven74: WhippingBoy: you should have to present some sort of business plan (especially if you're getting student loans)

That may not be the dumbest idea I've ever heard, but boy is it trying.

If they aren't allowed in school because it is a "bad" plan, yeah it is dumb.


But soemthinng like this to explain to students the reality of what their degree or more education on that path will lead, what it will pay, and what they will owe is a good idea.

red5ish: Rapmaster2000: An economist would say that this is a natural function of market efficiency. An educator would say that we need to value the skill more by paying more for it. That economic efficiency is no way to run a society. The educator's opinion has merit, but the problem we run into is how do we pay for a skill with a market demand that won't naturally pay for it and how do we determine what is the correct level of compensation for what is economically a misallocation of educational resources.

While I don't wish to undervalue the role of economists in our society I believe there is a place for history, the arts, music, poetry, etc. that economics and market demand may not support but are necessary to living truly rich lives.

I 100% agree. Now, how and what do we pay for that? That's the problem.

Currently, everyone I know doing art and music for a living is also working a day job. Only one of these people has managed to become an art professor.

Hows that worthless EE or CS degree working out for you.
_________________________________________________

clip - Forget the conventional wisdom. U.S. schools are turning out more capable science and engineering grads than the job market can support

http://www.businessweek.com/smallbiz/content/oct2007/sb20071025_82739 8 .htm

No Shortage of Technical People

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2009-07-08-science-engineer-jobs _ N.htm

clip - information technology has turned into one of the biggest job-growth disappointments of all time.

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/06_39/b4002001.htm

Cyclometh: Witness that a job at Burger King pays more than teaching.

More people want to teach than want to work at Burger King, so they will do it for less.

I'm all for education. But, education of the kind she has should come after you learn to take care of yourself.

If there was no job for the PhD, why did the university grant it or let her into the program?

Everyone she spoke to or interacted with probably told her how bright she was and how rosy the job market is. She probably wasn't able to see the future like some people apparently can.


/Tie education to the job market
//Or, at least make job placement statistics required reading.

"We regularly hear about adjuncts on food stamps," says Mr. Williams, who received food stamps and Medicaid himself when he taught at the University of Akron from 2007 to 2009, earning less than $21,000 a year. "This is not hyperbole and it isn't theoretical."


what has apparently changed is you can now get on medicaid and foodstamps when you earn almost 200% of the poverty level.


Elliott Stegall, a white, 51-year-old married father of two, teaches two courses each semester in the English department at Northwest Florida State College, in Niceville, Fla. Mr. Stegall is a graduate student at Florida State University, where he is finishing his dissertation in film studies. At night, after his 3-year-old and 3-month-old children have been put to bed, he grades a stack of composition papers or plugs away at his dissertation. (He's writing about how Hollywood films portray Vietnam soldiers as psychotic men who return home destroyed by the war.)


his problem is he was sold on the idea that as long as you follow you dreams everything will take care of itself. his kid is going to be turning 16 when he should be retiring and he won't have one red cent saved. this guy made some bad decisions, but I'm sure he's been bombarded with *follow your heart* his whole life.

Her problem was studying Medieval history. Everyone knows that the job opportunities are in Fully Evil history.