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(Washington Post)   From now on, when asked a question you don't want to answer, just give a presidential response: "My views on this are evolving.". Bonus: Biden gaffes that make Bush look like a rocket surgeon   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 265
    More: Followup, Dana Milbank, Joe Biden, White House, Jessica Yellin, Education Secretary Arne Duncan, Galapagos, Jay Carney, Mara Liasson  
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8218 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2012 at 12:50 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-08 01:22:45 PM

lennavan: Serious Black: The difference between civil unions and civil marriage is, quite simply, a word.

That's exactly it. The civil union versus marriage fight is just over terminology. What a load of shiat. You either want to:

1) Amend the constitution to ban gay marriage.
2) Amend the laws and the current societal usage of the word marriage to instead say civil unions.
3) Change nothing. Enforce the current constitution.

I mean, are gays that icky?


Yes, teh gheys are disgustingly icky. Just looking at a gay couple makes me uncontrollably want to find the nearest guy, pull him into a dark closet, and play with his dick.
 
2012-05-08 01:23:03 PM

whidbey: schattenteufel: 5 Ways to Spot a B.S. Political Story in Under 10 Seconds

#5. The Headline Contains the Word "Gaffe"

Except Bush stories actually had gaffes. He was a stupid stupid man who somehow got elected twice.


rlv.zcache.com
 
2012-05-08 01:23:13 PM

Garet Garrett: bobbette: Israel, for example

Israel allows civil unions. Only for folks unaffiliated with a religion, but it does recognize them.


And what is the chief characteristic of Israel? Oh, that it's a Jewish state. Civil unions are still not permitted for Jews or Christians or Muslims, and they do not offer the same legal status as marriages, IIRC, so my point remains: that is what a country looks like when religious marriage is the law of the land, and the United States has a system in which people can obtain a civil marriage (which may be optionally performed with a religious component.)

/Israel does recognize foreign marriages, which is how you can be a married gay in Israel. Still, rather complicated workaround.
 
2012-05-08 01:23:17 PM

gilgigamesh: lennavan: gilgigamesh: Ah, yes. Nothing drives my enthusiasm to get out to the to the polls like being taken for granted.

So you only care about one single issue - gay marriage? Interesting.

Or, did you perhaps think Obama should completely mirror your positions perfectly? That's also... interesting.

Dude, you'll get over it.

I'm not a single issue voter, and if I was, it would actually be on Obama's atrocious civil liberties record.

I was just generally responding to Dro's point that Obama can rely on people who are mad at him to come out and vote for him anyway. Sure they won't vote for Romney... but they may stay home. That's what Obama really has to worry about.



I don't think that's the correct way to distill Dro's point. If you agree with the vast majority of what Obama has done, why the hell would you be mad? If you're not a single issue voter, why would you be mad? Even if you were a single issue voter - gay rights, why would you be mad at Obama given all of the gay rights things he has accomplished in his first term? Only reason I can think of is you have the memory of a goldfish.
 
2012-05-08 01:23:41 PM

lennavan: jst3p: Il Douchey: Show of hands: Who here has heard that Joe Biden failed the Delaware Bar Exam eleven times before passing it?

/And he's a heartbeat from the Presidency

Cut him some slack, I have never been able to pass a bar in my life.

Yeah but you're an alcoholic.


I am not. Alcoholics go to meetings.
 
2012-05-08 01:23:43 PM
farm1.staticflickr.com

The President and Vice President have slightly different viewpoints on a social issue?!
.


/stop this ride I'd like to get off
 
2012-05-08 01:24:39 PM

NuttierThanEver: Il Douchey: Show of hands: Who here has heard that Joe Biden failed the Delaware Bar Exam eleven times before passing it?

/And he's a heartbeat from the Presidency

Let's see age greater than 35
Legal US Citizen

Nope nothing in the Constitution about being a lawyer or passing the bar exam so who farking cares?


It has nothing to do with Constitutional requirements and everything to do with painting your opponents as idiots. The press and liberals painted Quayle as an idiot and the press and conservatives paint Biden as an idiot. Neither is or was an idiot, regardless of what you may think.

Based on what people write in comments here and elsewhere, everyone is an idiot without the added stigma of having the press following your every move and only reporting when you do something stupid, which everyone does at least a few times a day but doesn't normally make the news.
 
2012-05-08 01:25:09 PM

bdub77: Well...I'm voting against the stupid amendment in NC but I'm anti-marriage in general in a government sense. Civil unions for everyone, marriage should not be recognized by the state outside of the civil union. Marriage is the religious side of the equation. Separation of church and state - marriage by the church, civil unions by the state. You can have one or both.


Marriage is just a way for lots of people to make lots of money off of people who decide to be together for the long-term. It serves no meaningful purpose.
 
2012-05-08 01:25:31 PM

whidbey: schattenteufel: 5 Ways to Spot a B.S. Political Story in Under 10 Seconds

#5. The Headline Contains the Word "Gaffe"

Except Bush stories actually had gaffes. He was a stupid stupid man who somehow got elected twice.



You seem to underestimate the amount of stupid stupid people in this country.
(there are a lot)
 
2012-05-08 01:25:32 PM
CheekyMonkey


Slaxl: I hate that honesty is the worst policy in politics today. I also hate that being tolerant and accepting of different people is also apparently a bad thing.

I hate that the USA has a sufficiently high population of bigoted cretins (I'm looking at you, fundie "Christian" dickbags) that Obama has to obfuscate his position on gay marriage.


You better trademark your down with "fundie "Christian" dickbags" slogan someone uses it as their campaign platform.
 
2012-05-08 01:26:17 PM

lennavan: Allowing gay marriage does not require adjusting the definition of marriage, except in states that have gone the extra step to change the definition already to one that says "between a man and a woman."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defense_of_Marriage_Act

lennavan: I wouldn't. I used to but not anymore. There's no reason to not use the term married.


The 'reason' not to use it is solely practical. If we have to use a stupid term to overcome the bigotry and let gay people be able to visit their loved ones in the hospital, I'd much rather see the latter than put it off to get the right word at the top of the certificate. There's a whole lot of pain and heartache caused by their inability to be equal under the law. That's a material problem that can be fixed much more simply by using the term 'civil union' because of how it undermines the bigots' arguments.

PonceAlyosha: Yeah, and the moment you try to do that, the same people saying "gays should only get civil unions" come out of the woodwork claiming the government wants to nullify your marriage to help the gays.


And?

gilgigamesh: Depends. Are al-Alwaki, his 16 year old son, and Samir Khan still dead?


ITT: killing people under congressionally authorized military action is a violation of civil rights because gilgigamesh doesn't know what 'due process' means. Up next, your decision for lunch may be illegal because gilgigamesh doesn't like how it tastes!
 
2012-05-08 01:26:20 PM

BunkyBrewman: Dan "Potatoe Head" Quayle or Dick "I'll shoot your face off" Cheney.


Yeesh. Can you imagine the kids if we let THOSE two get married?

1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-05-08 01:26:27 PM
The last Vice President we had with any dignity was Walter Mondale. Let that sink in a little.
 
2012-05-08 01:26:36 PM

EyeballKid: How strange. Given that Obama and Biden are the "librullest libruls that done ever librulled a librul," I would have thought they would have been all for gay marriage, by name, maybe even have a few ceremonies on the White House lawn...unless....


The problem is that they are so liberal, they reject the entire notion of contracts, which of course puts them at odds with marriage of any sort.

Which has obvious motives, if you've ever seen a photograph of Obama's wife.
 
2012-05-08 01:27:02 PM

gilgigamesh: Ah, yes. Nothing drives my enthusiasm to get out to the to the polls like being taken for granted.



Because principled losing is a better option. Be an adult, use your head, and realize that this is pragmatic strategy. You don't honestly believe he opposes the issue so why get all bent out of shape over it.
 
2012-05-08 01:27:22 PM

schattenteufel: whidbey: schattenteufel: 5 Ways to Spot a B.S. Political Story in Under 10 Seconds

#5. The Headline Contains the Word "Gaffe"

Except Bush stories actually had gaffes. He was a stupid stupid man who somehow got elected twice.


You seem to underestimate the amount of stupid stupid people in this country.
(there are a lot)


Enough to apparently make Biden Trainspotting a national pastime...
 
2012-05-08 01:28:46 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: The last Vice President we had with any dignity was Walter Mondale. Let that sink in a little.


Wouldn't have made a bad Pres either, but the right-wing derp was stacked pretty high back then. Doubt he would have had much of a spine to stand up to them.
 
2012-05-08 01:30:02 PM

Snarfangel: beefoe: And my personal favorite:

"When the stock market crashed, Franklin D. Roosevelt got on the television and didn't just talk about the, you know, the princes of greed. He said, 'Look, here's what happened."

No wonder why Osama figured that if he assassinated Obama, America would be f'd under Biden.

Cut Joe some slack. He was quoting Neil Kinnock, who is rather hazy about American Presidents.


Well played!
 
2012-05-08 01:30:51 PM

trippdogg: The president and vice president aren't in lock-step on the issue of gay marriage - and this is what's passing for a political hot potato these days?

Wake me if they find a dead hooker - otherwise...


Joe's not supposed to mention the gey. That vote is locked up and there's no point in irritating them by showing Obama is sashaying down the fence.

And you certainly don't want to piss off the thrice-divorced heterosexual masses in the middle who belong so strongly in the sanctity of marriage.

So yeah, it's great we have a president who doesn't think he's going to get cooties from the gey, but keep that under your hat until after the election, Joe.
 
2012-05-08 01:30:51 PM

gilgigamesh: lennavan: gilgigamesh: Ah, yes. Nothing drives my enthusiasm to get out to the to the polls like being taken for granted.

So you only care about one single issue - gay marriage? Interesting.

Or, did you perhaps think Obama should completely mirror your positions perfectly? That's also... interesting.

Dude, you'll get over it.

I'm not a single issue voter, and if I was, it would actually be on Obama's atrocious civil liberties record.

I was just generally responding to Dro's point that Obama can rely on people who are mad at him to come out and vote for him anyway. Sure they won't vote for Romney... but they may stay home. That's what Obama really has to worry about.


I think their point is, why would they be mad? You can't expect the guy to walk around in a fishnet shirt singing "It's Raining Men". His actions should speak far louder than his words. And basically, you're saying fark what he does if he isn't going to be at the next gay pride rally.
 
2012-05-08 01:33:02 PM

LDM90: The kind of people who oppose gay marriage weren't going to vote for Obama anyway. I don't know why he doesn't just come out in favor of it. He has nothing to lose.


If that's the case, then what's he got to lose by stating the obvious, i.e. that he supports gay marriage.
 
2012-05-08 01:33:05 PM

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: The last Vice President we had with any dignity was Walter Mondale. Let that sink in a little.


I don't know, Gore seemed quite dignified when he was serving as VP.

As a candidate, and as an environmentalist spokesperson since then, not so much...
 
2012-05-08 01:33:14 PM

Lollipop165: Magorn: Marriage licenses are issued by individual states, the the Supreme court has long ago ruled that Family law is one of those areas where the federal government clearly intended state regulation to have primacy. Ergo, there is no valid federal role in deciding who may or may not get married (which means DOMA should have been a dead letter form the jump) so therefore I ask you how do Obama's views on the subject matter in the slightest?

I never really understood how something like marriage doesn't fall under "civil rights".


According to the Supreme Court, it DOES ("The decision of whether and whom to marry is one of the most fundamental rights of man- Skinner v. OK quoed in Loving v. VA, Zablocki v. Redhail and Turner v. Safely)and therefore discriminatory policies against marriage can be challenged and overturned using the 14th Amendment. However marriage laws are still an exclusive domain of states and the court would very likely have a serious 10th Amendment issue with any attempt to "federalize" marriage law.
 
2012-05-08 01:33:49 PM

gilgigamesh: I was just generally responding to Dro's point that Obama can rely on people who are mad at him to come out and vote for him anyway. Sure they won't vote for Romney... but they may stay home. That's what Obama really has to worry about.



Oh so they'd stay home because they are made that a candidate...


bobbette: Oh, come on. Obama's been the most pro-gay President ever. Including in foreign policy. You have Hillary Clinton going around the world telling everyone gay rights are human rights and actually doing something to prove it. Obama ended Don't Ask, Don't Tell. They stopped defending DOMA in court. If we're realistic about the political calculus of gay marriage at the federal level it requires re-electing the political party that is gay-friendly but who certainly can't be expected to campaign on gay marriage, because they'd lose races.

The more important thing is stacking the House and Senate with people who will vote to repeal DOMA and enact federal legislation recognizing gay marriage so Obama can sign it. Once all the ducks are in a row, Obama can cajole the remaining people into "evolving" into the direction of marriage equality and they can all pat themselves on the back for finally "coming around" just as their constituents slowly have. That's how this game works.



...has actual taken substantive steps to advance their interests rather than SAYING he supports them and doing nothing. Are these hypothetical people seriously that farking stupid? Aside from the fact that they blithely ignore political reality it seems to prioritize words over action which seems to be the reverse of what one normally finds to be desirable.
 
2012-05-08 01:33:54 PM

sprawl15: JackieRabbit: non-issue of gay marriage

lol

8/10


That's not a troll. The federal government has no authority over marriage. So for it, it is a non-issue. The government is already pro-gay in terms of the way to allows for benefits etc. for gay employees. That is really all it can do.

Know what you're talking about before you call someone a troll.
 
2012-05-08 01:34:08 PM

bobbette: bdub77: Well...I'm voting against the stupid amendment in NC but I'm anti-marriage in general in a government sense. Civil unions for everyone, marriage should not be recognized by the state outside of the civil union. Marriage is the religious side of the equation. Separation of church and state - marriage by the church, civil unions by the state. You can have one or both.

A marriage is a civil union in countries with a separation of church and state. The marriage ceremony is what is performed by a church and it varies.

So you're wrong. There are places where marriage is a religious institution exclusively and there, marriage has a different character and can't be accessed by people who don't meet religious requirements. Israel, for example.


I like the way it is done in France and Germany (at least in the 80s and 90s) Civil and religious ceremonies were separate.

/I married in France, French mayors perform the civil marriage, church wedding later if you want it.

//sister married in Germany. Civil first then church the next day.

///The US should do this.
 
2012-05-08 01:35:01 PM
When asked a question concerning same sex marriage, your answer will be construed as either an endorsement of homoswxual relationships or a comdemnation of the same.

Now, if you think somebody can be born homosexual, you are repugnant if you condemn somebody for it.

If you think it is a choice then you can condemn them on religious grounds or upon personal distaste.

If you condemn them because of personal distaste, you are vacuous and shallow. It should be none of your business.

If you condemn them on religious grounds, you have to adhere to every guanopsychotic Levitican law (including forbiding women from entering your house while menstruating) or you are a hypocrite.

Regardless of the argument you chose to marginalize this particular segment of the population, your ground is iether shaky or openly revolting.

Personally I think most are born that way, while some choose to behave that way. (See Anne Heche and Ellen DeGeneres). And either way, I think they deserve the same rights as everyone else.
 
2012-05-08 01:35:28 PM

JackieRabbit: The federal government has no authority over marriage.


Sure it does. Interstate commerce!
 
2012-05-08 01:35:58 PM

LDM90: The kind of people who oppose gay marriage weren't going to vote for Obama anyway. I don't know why he doesn't just come out in favor of it. He has nothing to lose.


No. They are going to vote for Obama, and donate money to Obama. That's the thing.

There are ignorant twits all over the political spectrum. This isn't a teabagger thing. This is getting the vote of a minivan-driving mom who maybe identifies as a moderate but is still uneasy about Republicans based on the past few years, who watches Dancing with the Stars and loved Will & Grace and every gay-ass program aimed at straight women out there, but still feels deep down that it's wrong somehow for her neighbours to have the same rights as her and that heterosexual marriages will somehow be devalued because gays are a little icky, even if they're nice. She's an ignorant twit... and she's probably an Obama voter. Unless he loses her by going too far in a direction she's not comfortable with.
 
2012-05-08 01:37:03 PM

gilgigamesh: whidbey: gilgigamesh: I'm not a single issue voter, and if I was, it would actually be on Obama's atrocious civil liberties record

Are you still running with that?

Depends. Are al-Alwaki, his 16 year old son, and Samir Khan still dead?


So you're going with the line that Obama deliberately had them killed?

To me, it's easy to see we're in this mess because of Bush, and that they set it up so that Obama has little choice to do what was already in the plan.

Not sure why you don't want to see it.
 
2012-05-08 01:37:43 PM
I honestly hope Obama waits until after the election to fully support gay marriage. There are too many farking backward-ass retards in this country to do otherwise.
 
2012-05-08 01:37:59 PM

IAAl: Based on what people write in comments here and elsewhere, everyone is an idiot without the added stigma of having the press following your every move and only reporting when you do something stupid, which everyone does at least a few times a day but doesn't normally make the news.


The trick is to say something outrageous that you believe in and are willing to fight for. Then the little stupid things are ignored as the press attacks you on something you are determined to defend.

It could be allowing mosques anywhere--even Ground Zero--or gay marriage, or totally open borders, or scrapping the current tax code and rebuilding it from scratch, or putting a man on Mars. As long as as it's a big idea and you can fight back with conviction, your opponents will never be able to proclaim victory and dwell on your minor misstatements.

/At least that's my idea. The only conviction I've seen a politician defend with his dying breath is the conviction he should be re-elected.
 
2012-05-08 01:38:35 PM

tommyl66: ThreeEdgedSword: Biden 2016. There, I said it.

I'd put some hefty coin on Clinton in 2016, but that's just me...


is Chelsea 35 already?
 
2012-05-08 01:40:36 PM

She comes in colors everywhere: tommyl66: ThreeEdgedSword: Biden 2016. There, I said it.

I'd put some hefty coin on Clinton in 2016, but that's just me...

is Chelsea 35 already?


She will be in 2016...
 
2012-05-08 01:40:47 PM
I blame BUSH.
 
2012-05-08 01:41:58 PM

CanuckInCA: She comes in colors everywhere: tommyl66: ThreeEdgedSword: Biden 2016. There, I said it.

I'd put some hefty coin on Clinton in 2016, but that's just me...

is Chelsea 35 already?

She will be in 2016...


Wow. So 2016 is going to be the REAL end of the Mayan calendar and sh*t goes down...who knew?
 
2012-05-08 01:42:19 PM

sprawl15: Up next, your decision for lunch may be illegal because gilgigamesh doesn't like how it tastes!


Not possible. My lunch is delicious.
 
2012-05-08 01:43:20 PM

YoungSwedishBlonde: How is stating your opinion on an issue a "gaffe"?


Because socialism
 
2012-05-08 01:43:27 PM

sprawl15: ITT: killing people under congressionally authorized military action is a violation of civil rights because gilgigamesh doesn't know what 'due process' means. Up next, your decision for lunch may be illegal because gilgigamesh doesn't like how it tastes!


Well, you wouldn't have to worry about that unless he's elected president. If that happens you might want to watch out though since you were cheerleading giving the President the authority to execute citizens without trial or oversight as long as he says that they're bad people. But there's no way that anyone would ever possibly abuse that sort of power, is there?

No, even bringing that up is ridiculous...
 
2012-05-08 01:43:49 PM

IAAl: Based on what people write in comments here and elsewhere, everyone is an idiot without the added stigma of having the press following your every move and only reporting when you do something stupid, which everyone does at least a few times a day but doesn't normally make the news.


How many of you have left your fly open at least once in past month?
The past week?

Today?

Now realize that there is an entire press corps just waiting for Obama to leave his fly open, just once.

/imagine the crazy that would ensue on Faux and Townhole.
 
2012-05-08 01:45:05 PM

JackieRabbit: That's not a troll. The federal government has no authority over marriage. So for it, it is a non-issue. The government is already pro-gay in terms of the way to allows for benefits etc. for gay employees. That is really all it can do.

Know what you're talking about before you call someone a troll.


Really? How about non-citizen partners of gay Americans? The can't get citizenship by marriage. How about tax-free transfer of assets upon death to the surviving spouse? Gay couples can't do this.
 
2012-05-08 01:45:19 PM

whidbey: schattenteufel: 5 Ways to Spot a B.S. Political Story in Under 10 Seconds

#5. The Headline Contains the Word "Gaffe"

Except Bush stories actually had gaffes. He was a stupid stupid man who somehow got elected twice.


Somehow?!? How about "due to the raging stupidity of a majority of voting-age Americans"?
 
2012-05-08 01:45:25 PM

BunkyBrewman: I'd rather have Biden than Dan "Potatoe Head" Quayle or Dick "I'll shoot your face off" Cheney.


You mean Dick "Exactly what Eisenhower warned us about in his farewell address" Cheney?
 
2012-05-08 01:46:28 PM

runin800m: you were cheerleading giving the President the authority to execute citizens without trial or oversight


I don't think sprawl was cheerleading the 9/11 AUMF. I could be wrong, though; that was a few years ago.
 
2012-05-08 01:46:31 PM

CheekyMonkey: Somehow?!? How about "due to the raging stupidity of a majority of voting-age Americans"?


No, that's how he got elected once.
 
2012-05-08 01:46:57 PM

whidbey: So you're going with the line that Obama deliberately had them killed?


Uh, he did have them deliberately killed. I am pretty sure that was why there was a Justice Dept memo outlining why they could be deliberately killed.

whidbey: To me, it's easy to see we're in this mess because of Bush, and that they set it up so that Obama has little choice to do what was already in the plan.


"But Bush"? Hold on a sec... lemme see if I can find... ah yeah, here it is:

images.sodahead.com
 
2012-05-08 01:48:38 PM

CheekyMonkey: whidbey: schattenteufel: 5 Ways to Spot a B.S. Political Story in Under 10 Seconds

#5. The Headline Contains the Word "Gaffe"

Except Bush stories actually had gaffes. He was a stupid stupid man who somehow got elected twice.

Somehow?!? How about "due to the raging stupidity of a majority of voting-age Americans"?


Well, I'm factoring in the SCOTUS decision and the 2004 questionable ballot activity in Ohio.

It's really not that big a stretch to say that the majority of Americans did not vote for Bush twice. Hence "somehow elected."
 
2012-05-08 01:50:13 PM

qorkfiend: runin800m: you were cheerleading giving the President the authority to execute citizens without trial or oversight

I don't think sprawl was cheerleading the 9/11 AUMF. I could be wrong, though; that was a few years ago.


Pointing out that it exists is exactly the same thing as loving it and wanting to gay marry it. You didn't get that memo? Check your inbox, it's titled "Kneejerk Responses for Assholes". runin800m has a copy if you didn't get it.
 
2012-05-08 01:52:18 PM

gilgigamesh: whidbey: So you're going with the line that Obama deliberately had them killed?

Uh, he did have them deliberately killed. I am pretty sure that was why there was a Justice Dept memo outlining why they could be deliberately killed.

whidbey: To me, it's easy to see we're in this mess because of Bush, and that they set it up so that Obama has little choice to do what was already in the plan.

"But Bush"? Hold on a sec... lemme see if I can find... ah yeah, here it is:

[images.sodahead.com image 350x272]


You're welcome to ignore the facts as to why we're in this mess. It's disappointing, but I'll get over it.

Any examination of the past 8 years puts Obama off the hook.
 
2012-05-08 01:52:19 PM
But evolution is just a theory.
 
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