I dunno how to feel about this, lol

On one side, the group has freedom of association. On the other side, the college has a right to enact anti-discriminatory rules.

Sigh

I stopped at "strongly worded letter".

GAT_00: downstairs: I stopped at "strongly worded letter".

I stopped at 'Fox News.'

Yeah, you're probably doing it more right than I. Although I'm rarely up at 7:30 AM, so I have some sort of excuse.

GAT_00: downstairs: I stopped at "strongly worded letter".

I stopped at 'Fox News.'

To be fair, they arent as bad as WND or Breitbart. They can show journalism once in a while

Really? This is the business of Congress now?

Anything to avoid doing your actual job, eh "Prayer Caucus?"

Vanderbilt is private and the Boy Scouts are private. It works both ways, GOPers.

In March, Vanderbilt Catholic said it would pick up and move off campus, rather than sign a pledge that non-Catholics were welcome to apply for positions of leadership. To do that, the group's leaders said, would be to compromise the entire purpose of the organization.

Why does it matter if "anyone can apply" to a position a leadership? Aren't the student groups in charge of picking their own leaders? From TFA, it just sounds like biatchy groups don't want icky non-Christians sullying their leadership ballots regardless of how anyone votes.

Vanderbilt is private. Go away.

Nashvillian here: The problem with the Vandy policy is that it takes inclusiveness to the point of absurdity. Telling a Christian group that they must allow atheists in the group and must allow them to run for leadership undermines the reason for the groups existence. The same could apply to feminist groups, gay groups, etc.

The real kicker is this, however. The rule does not apply to fraternities or sororities. They can continue to be as exclusive as they want.

That being said, this is just the ridiculous social hyperconservatives grandstanding for their constituencies. No one expects this to be taken seriously. They see Nashville as an evil blue dot in a see of glorious red.

I sea what I did there

kronicfeld: Vanderbilt is private. Go away.

"The combined value of federal grants and contracts for research and related activities at Vanderbilt University, including the Medical Center, totaled $424 million in fiscal year 2009. The National Science Foundation ranked Vanderbilt 22nd among U.S. colleges and universities based on all federal obligations for research and development funding in fiscal year 2007, the most recent year for which these rankings are available. This is the fifth consecutive year that Vanderbilt has been ranked in the top 25 universities."

No so private.

xynix: No so private.

Nope, still private. That the government contracts with or awards them grants does not render them less than private, and does not make them an arm of the government for First Amendment purposes.

xynix: kronicfeld: Vanderbilt is private. Go away.

"The combined value of federal grants and contracts for research and related activities at Vanderbilt University, including the Medical Center, totaled $424 million in fiscal year 2009. The National Science Foundation ranked Vanderbilt 22nd among U.S. colleges and universities based on all federal obligations for research and development funding in fiscal year 2007, the most recent year for which these rankings are available. This is the fifth consecutive year that Vanderbilt has been ranked in the top 25 universities."

No so private.

Ummmm... my private small business does work with the government. Still private.

Hang on, the whole thing is about whether it's okay for atheists and Hindus and other religious people to join Christian organizations?

You'd think Christians would want to have atheists and Hindus and Jews and Muslims in their groups - a broader group to preach to.

downstairs: xynix: kronicfeld: Vanderbilt is private. Go away.

Ummmm... my private small business does work with the government. Still private.

So the Government gives you cash to buy buildings? If so I want some of that action.

Any institution that relieves federal money for zero work is federally funded. This is how the asshats in Arizona are able to ban Planned Parenthood *also a private institution.

xynix: This is how the asshats in Arizona are able to ban Planned Parenthood *also a private institution.

They didn't ban Planned Parenthood, they withdrew state funding. And what you said about any institution that receives (I assume you meant receives, because your word choice betrays some serious problems with English vocabulary) federal money is federally funded is false. You should listen to kronicfeld. He's a law talking guy.

Ya big dummy.

xynix: Any institution that relieves federal money for zero work is federally funded

The federal government contracts with vending machine companies to provide vending machines to federal buildings. Is Lay's now a branch of the federal government?

kronicfeld: xynix: Any institution that relieves federal money for zero work is federally funded

The federal government contracts with vending machine companies to provide vending machines to federal buildings. Is Lay's now a branch of the federal government?

If the government doesn't like what Lay's is doing, they can threaten to eliminate contracts. Tennessee lawmakers could do the same with Vanderbilt and their state grants and contracts.

Without that threat, can the state of Tennessee actually tell Vanderbilt what to do? Would it likely be appealed to the courts?

Lumpmoose: Tennessee lawmakers could do the same with Vanderbilt and their state grants and contracts.

Sure, Tennessee could choose not to contract with Vanderbilt in the future for whatever Tennessee might contract with Vanderbilt for - research into whether genetics allows one to fornicate with one's sister provided she is particularly attractive, perhaps? - but I doubt that will matter much to a school that already receives hundreds of millions of dollars from the likes of NIH.

The university insists that groups like the Christian Legal Society, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Vanderbilt Catholic and others cannot require prospective leaders to share their faith and values. To do so would run afoul of the university's non-discrimination policy to admit "all comers." If the student groups don't shape up, they'll have to ship out.

that's kind of an asinine policy. under those rules, the local young Democrats group would have to be headed by the local Rush Limbaugh fan club.

Weaver95: The university insists that groups like the Christian Legal Society, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Vanderbilt Catholic and others cannot require prospective leaders to share their faith and values. To do so would run afoul of the university's non-discrimination policy to admit "all comers." If the student groups don't shape up, they'll have to ship out.

that's kind of an asinine policy. under those rules, the local young Democrats group would have to be headed by the local Rush Limbaugh fan club.

Nope. Here's Vanderbilt's nondiscrimination policy (yes, I abridged it for clarity).

"...Vanderbilt University does not discriminate against individuals on the basis of their race, sex, religion, color, national or ethnic origin, age, disability, military service, or genetic information in its administration of educational policies, programs, or activities; admissions policies; scholarship and loan programs; athletic or other University-administered programs; or employment. In addition, the University does not discriminate against individuals on the basis of their sexual orientation , gender identity , or gender expression. Registered student organizations must be open to all students as members and must permit all members in good standing to seek leadership posts."

You're perfectly free to discriminate on the basis of political opinion, however.

Anyone else find it interesting that Vanderbilt also does not discriminate on the basis of genetic information? It's like the proactive response to Gattaca.

junkmetal: It's a private school, if you want religion, go to SMU or Emory or TCU or any of the other various religious schools.

This. Shut up, go away and take your faux-oppression with you.

mysticcat:

Nashvillian here: The problem with the Vandy policy is that it takes inclusiveness to the point of absurdity. Telling a Christian group that they must allow atheists in the group and must allow them to run for leadership undermines the reason for the groups existence. The same could apply to feminist groups, gay groups, etc.

The real kicker is this, however. The rule does not apply to fraternities or sororities. They can continue to be as exclusive as they want.

cman:

On one side, the group has freedom of association. On the other side, the college has a right to enact anti-discriminatory rules.

Doesnt freedom of association assume freedom to discriminate? Suppose I get 50 of my friends to join a campus group of 20 atheists and I am elected president of the group (50/20 vote). If you were in the group of 20, would you think this is fair?

RexTalionis: Weaver95: The university insists that groups like the Christian Legal Society, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Vanderbilt Catholic and others cannot require prospective leaders to share their faith and values. To do so would run afoul of the university's non-discrimination policy to admit "all comers." If the student groups don't shape up, they'll have to ship out.

that's kind of an asinine policy. under those rules, the local young Democrats group would have to be headed by the local Rush Limbaugh fan club.

Nope. Here's Vanderbilt's nondiscrimination policy (yes, I abridged it for clarity).

"...Vanderbilt University does not discriminate against individuals on the basis of their race, sex, religion, color, national or ethnic origin, age, disability, military service, or genetic information in its administration of educational policies, programs, or activities; admissions policies; scholarship and loan programs; athletic or other University-administered programs; or employment. In addition, the University does not discriminate against individuals on the basis of their sexual orientation , gender identity , or gender expression. Registered student organizations must be open to all students as members and must permit all members in good standing to seek leadership posts."

You're perfectly free to discriminate on the basis of political opinion, however.

Anyone else find it interesting that Vanderbilt also does not discriminate on the basis of genetic information? It's like the proactive response to Gattaca.

actually...that policy STILL does not prevent a member of the Rush Limbaugh fan club from becoming the leader of the college Democrats. In fact, if they don't allow said dittohead to be their leader, they're in violation of that policy.

Weaver95: actually...that policy STILL does not prevent a member of the Rush Limbaugh fan club from becoming the leader of the college Democrats. In fact, if they don't allow said dittohead to be their leader, they're in violation of that policy.

It doesn't facilitate it, either, like you were suggesting.

RexTalionis: Weaver95: actually...that policy STILL does not prevent a member of the Rush Limbaugh fan club from becoming the leader of the college Democrats. In fact, if they don't allow said dittohead to be their leader, they're in violation of that policy.

It doesn't facilitate it, either, like you were suggesting.

sure it does. atheists have to put religious nuts into leadership positions....all kinds of crazy there.

Weaver95: RexTalionis: Weaver95: actually...that policy STILL does not prevent a member of the Rush Limbaugh fan club from becoming the leader of the college Democrats. In fact, if they don't allow said dittohead to be their leader, they're in violation of that policy.

It doesn't facilitate it, either, like you were suggesting.

sure it does. atheists have to put religious nuts into leadership positions....all kinds of crazy there.

Only if you define the college Democrats as a religious organization of atheists and the Rush Limbaugh fan club as a religious organizations of religious nuts.

RexTalionis: Registered student organizations

If you don't like the policy, don't register. Doesn't mean you can't do stuff, it just means you can't use some university resources.

Registered student organization status allows groups to use the Vanderbilt University name to signify their institutional affiliation; be eligible to apply for funding from various institutional sources; participate in the university-sponsored student organization recruitment fair; use listservs, group mail, and URLs administered by the university, and other resources.

They legally may be able to do it, but it seems like an incredibly silly thing. I note they give a pass to fraternities and sororities, though. If you aren't Catholic, why would you join, much less seek a leadership position in a student Catholic organization?

RexTalionis: Weaver95: RexTalionis: Weaver95: actually...that policy STILL does not prevent a member of the Rush Limbaugh fan club from becoming the leader of the college Democrats. In fact, if they don't allow said dittohead to be their leader, they're in violation of that policy.

It doesn't facilitate it, either, like you were suggesting.

sure it does. atheists have to put religious nuts into leadership positions....all kinds of crazy there.

Only if you define the college Democrats as a religious organization of atheists and the Rush Limbaugh fan club as a religious organizations of religious nuts.

i'm willing to be that there are more athiests among the democrats than there are among the dittoheads....

my point being that a democrat organization would have to put a limbaugh dittohead in charge of their organization, at least as these rules go anyways. it completely guts the freedom of association, that's what makes this a bad rule.

now...sure. the university has the 'right' to make up completely asinine and virulently destructive rules for its students...but why would you want to attend such a school?

Nabb1: They legally may be able to do it, but it seems like an incredibly silly thing. I note they give a pass to fraternities and sororities, though. If you aren't Catholic, why would you join, much less seek a leadership position in a student Catholic organization?

step 1) join the catholic student organization with a large group of like-minded friends
step 2) collude with your friends to vote members of your group into all of the leadership positions
step 3) use catholic student organization branding to promote atheism for the lolz

Weaver95: my point being that a democrat organization would have to put a limbaugh dittohead in charge of their organization, at least as these rules go anyways. it completely guts the freedom of association, that's what makes this a bad rule.

No, it wouldn't. Because, no matter how it correlates, political opinion isn't the same thing as religion, gender, age, race, national or ethnic origin or any of the other ones.

Weaver95: The university insists that groups like the Christian Legal Society, the Fellowship of Christian Athletes, Vanderbilt Catholic and others cannot require prospective leaders to share their faith and values. To do so would run afoul of the university's non-discrimination policy to admit "all comers." If the student groups don't shape up, they'll have to ship out.

that's kind of an asinine policy. under those rules, the local young Democrats group would have to be headed by the local Rush Limbaugh fan club.

Not really. The university is just saying that that all univerisity sponsored student groups have to allow all students to join and if they want to, apply for leadership positions. The first part is a no-brainer - if my tuition is helping to pay for a groups costs, then of course I should be able to join. They're just extending being able to join to not being automatically disqualified for parts of the group.

They're not saying that the young democrats have to let Rush Jr. be their president - just that they can't disallow him. He'd still have to win an election or whatever process they go through to decide who's in charge. Presumably if Jr. brought enough of his buddies in to swing the election you could theoretically end up with a republican president of the young democrats, but even in that scenario the young democrats would be mostly republicans.

It's just funny that the Christian groups are so dead set against allowing non-christians into their club; as opposed to my church where we'll welcome with open arms anyone who wants to can walk in and sit down in a pew.