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(The Atlantic)   "The Germans call this sort of thing 'a permanent bailout.' We just call it 'Missouri.'" Oh snap   (theatlantic.com ) divider line
    More: Amusing, Missouri, United States, Greek economy, monetary union, Europe, fiscal union  
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3284 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 May 2012 at 8:17 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-08 07:58:35 AM  
That was an interesting way of putting things...
 
2012-05-08 08:20:04 AM  
This just in: there's a difference between states and countries
 
2012-05-08 08:21:11 AM  
LOL at the Libertarian utopia of Tennessee.
 
2012-05-08 08:21:39 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries


Technically, no.
 
2012-05-08 08:22:21 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries


businomics.typepad.com

Heh, Europe.
 
2012-05-08 08:23:06 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries


Not so much when the US was founded. Up until about the Civil War, we were much more like the modern EU than the modern US.
 
2012-05-08 08:23:12 AM  
I would be happy to see these parasite states stop taking my money. Fark these inbred mouthbreathers.
 
2012-05-08 08:23:54 AM  
OMG it's us! We were the wealth-redistributing socialists all along!
 
2012-05-08 08:24:02 AM  

Cyclometh: I would be happy to see these parasite states stop taking my money. Fark these inbred mouthbreathers.


if not for the liberal states giving them money they'd have to institute a state tax.
 
2012-05-08 08:24:47 AM  
Missouri the "show me the money" state.
 
2012-05-08 08:25:04 AM  
Missouri is now officially the "Show Me... the Money!" state.

/Federal bills, that is.
 
2012-05-08 08:26:07 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries


That's the whole point - a "Union" works only if the states involved are united at most levels, not just for trade. Heck, India is a better model (on a country level) for the EU - like the EU, India has a couple of dozen languages (most of them with different scripts - why do you think they speak English so much!), different cuisines, different cultures and as much history to match. And like the US, India is a fiscal union where the rich places (Bombay and Delhi) subsidise the hellholes in terms of infrastructure and tax revenue.
 
2012-05-08 08:26:14 AM  
Taxed Enough Already indeed
 
2012-05-08 08:26:20 AM  

Zeno-25: MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries

[businomics.typepad.com image 595x421]

Heh, Europe.


I wonder if this diagram means that there are equivalent numbers of ladyboys in Arizona, Colorado, Minnesota, and Indiana.
 
2012-05-08 08:26:51 AM  

Hobodeluxe: Missouri the "show me the money" state.


Dammit, hit refresh and everything.

/Great minds thinks alike and fools seldom differ.
//Gonna file that under the former rather than the latter.
 
2012-05-08 08:27:48 AM  

Hobodeluxe: Cyclometh: I would be happy to see these parasite states stop taking my money. Fark these inbred mouthbreathers.

if not for the liberal states giving them money they'd have to institute a state tax.

I would love to see that. No more handouts to pig-ignorant, racist, mysogynistic, inbred mouthbreathing hicks that want to drag my country back to the Bronze Age.
 
2012-05-08 08:28:19 AM  

Robo Beat: Zeno-25: MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries

[businomics.typepad.com image 595x421]

Heh, Europe.

I wonder if this diagram means that there are equivalent numbers of ladyboys in Arizona, Colorado, Minnesota, and Indiana.


only in the mens room at the republican party convention
 
2012-05-08 08:28:47 AM  

HMS_Blinkin: MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries

Not so much when the US was founded. Up until about the Civil War we got rid of the Articles of Confederation, we were much more like the modern EU than the modern US.


Fixed
 
2012-05-08 08:29:49 AM  
5% annual inflation rate is what we all need.
 
2012-05-08 08:31:56 AM  
A "seamless fiscal transfers from the rich countries to the poor"

A rose by any other name would still smell like socialism....
 
2012-05-08 08:36:15 AM  

karnal: A "seamless fiscal transfers from the rich countries to the poor"

A rose by any other name would still smell like socialism....


That's not socialism.
 
2012-05-08 08:38:14 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: karnal: A "seamless fiscal transfers from the rich countries to the poor"

A rose by any other name would still smell like socialism....

That's not socialism.


But is it soshulizm?
 
2012-05-08 08:38:45 AM  
If it weren't for these thrifty red states keeping them in check like this, the "rich" liberal states would just go and spend themselves into oblivion.

You're welcome, liberals.
 
2012-05-08 08:39:27 AM  
HotWingConspiracy

karnal: A "seamless fiscal transfers from the rich countries to the poor"

A rose by any other name would still smell like socialism....

That's not socialism.



Sorry - *smells like Monetary integration
 
2012-05-08 08:42:48 AM  

rubi_con_man: 5% annual inflation rate is what we all need.


Really it is, except that for it to work, pay would also have to increase to keep pace with it.

Not ever going to happen in this country.
 
2012-05-08 08:44:31 AM  
CPennypacker


HotWingConspiracy: karnal: A "seamless fiscal transfers from the rich countries to the poor"

A rose by any other name would still smell like socialism....

That's not socialism.

But is it soshulizm?



Da - Sosyalizm
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-05-08 08:46:11 AM  
Obviously, the answer is to fark the poor in the ass with a broom handle.
 
2012-05-08 08:46:20 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries


Not really. And the current financial crisis is showing that the US is more dysfunctional than the EU when it comes to handling budgetary matters/issues.

/Germany is actually made up of autonomous states
//they have a lot less power than American states do
 
2012-05-08 08:48:01 AM  
Serious Black


Obviously, the answer is to fark the poor in the ass with a broom handle.



Does it have to be wooden?
 
2012-05-08 08:49:12 AM  

GAT_00: HMS_Blinkin: MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries

Not so much when the US was founded. Up until about the Civil War we got rid of the Articles of Confederation, we were much more like the modern EU than the modern US.

Fixed


I love this line of thinking that seems to be making its rounds as of late. "But for the War of Northern Aggression, the US was simply a loose confederation of individual states. Better times, better times."

The funny thing about those kinds of people is that they will almost unanimously view the US Constitution as an almost divinely-inspired document, sacred in precepts, and to be followed to the letter.
 
2012-05-08 08:50:07 AM  

erstwhileplanet: OMG it's us! We were the wealth-redistributing socialists all along!


The best way to listen to this comment.
 
2012-05-08 08:50:32 AM  

karnal: Sorry - *smells like Monetary integration


Oddly enough, they have entirely different definitions.
 
2012-05-08 08:52:35 AM  
I have a question regarding the graph:

cdn.theatlantic.com

Why is the Tennessee bar shorter than the Missouri bar yet Missouri receives a lower percentage of federal money?
 
2012-05-08 08:53:05 AM  

erstwhileplanet: OMG it's us! We were the wealth-redistributing socialists all along!


Damn you! Damn you all to hell!
 
2012-05-08 08:54:07 AM  

Muta: I have a question regarding the graph:

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 481x380]

Why is the Tennessee bar shorter than the Missouri bar yet Missouri receives a lower percentage of federal money?


The percentages at the bottom are percentages of GDP and not related to the height of the bar
 
2012-05-08 08:55:17 AM  

Muta: I have a question regarding the graph:

[cdn.theatlantic.com image 481x380]

Why is the Tennessee bar shorter than the Missouri bar yet Missouri receives a lower percentage of federal money?


Missouri is a bigger state, and the height of the bar represents the real number instead of the ratio?
The graph doesn't really make that clear though.
 
2012-05-08 08:55:28 AM  
The Germans call this sort of thing 'a permanent bailout.' We just call it 'Missouri' red states." Oh snap!

FIFM

/lives in a red state
 
2012-05-08 08:59:33 AM  

CrackpipeCardozo: I love this line of thinking that seems to be making its rounds as of late. "But for the War of Northern Aggression, the US was simply a loose confederation of individual states. Better times, better times."

The funny thing about those kinds of people is that they will almost unanimously view the US Constitution as an almost divinely-inspired document, sacred in precepts, and to be followed to the letter.


How does one contradict the other?
 
2012-05-08 08:59:43 AM  

neversubmit: The Germans call this sort of thing 'a permanent bailout.' We just call it 'Missouri' red states." Oh snap!

FIFM

/lives in a red state


farm4.static.flickr.com

Yep
 
2012-05-08 09:06:25 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries


Stop trying to use your puzzler, abstraction obviously makes yours go into some kind of halt state.
 
2012-05-08 09:09:05 AM  
Unfortunately here the Missouri politics seem to run our country instead of New England politics.
 
2012-05-08 09:09:55 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries


That's the the point of the EU and the Euro, a pan-nation. And they wanted to reduce the differences.
 
2012-05-08 09:12:53 AM  

dennysgod: neversubmit: The Germans call this sort of thing 'a permanent bailout.' We just call it 'Missouri' red states." Oh snap!

FIFM

/lives in a red state

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 640x470]

Yep


That graph needs a lot of context. For example, Virginia "gets" more money because it houses, the Pentagon, a shiat ton of governement contractors, Norfolk ship yards, Oceania Air station, etc.

It's not charity the money comes here because a TON of Federal jobs are here.

Some of the western states are like that because there is more federal land than private land in the state. Not a lot of people but a lot of government upkeep of parks and the like. Wyoming for example has Yellowstone and Grand Teton NP which are two of the most visited NPs and is mostly ranches otherwise. Latest census shows ~600k people in Wyoming. Which is like a boro in NYC.

The last number I can find on Yellowstone annual budget is around $30 million. So each person in Wyoming would need to pay ~$50k in taxes each year to make that work out.
 
2012-05-08 09:28:22 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: dennysgod: neversubmit: The Germans call this sort of thing 'a permanent bailout.' We just call it 'Missouri' red states." Oh snap!

FIFM

/lives in a red state

[farm4.static.flickr.com image 640x470]

Yep

That graph needs a lot of context. For example, Virginia "gets" more money because it houses, the Pentagon, a shiat ton of governement contractors, Norfolk ship yards, Oceania Air station, etc.

It's not charity the money comes here because a TON of Federal jobs are here.

Some of the western states are like that because there is more federal land than private land in the state. Not a lot of people but a lot of government upkeep of parks and the like. Wyoming for example has Yellowstone and Grand Teton NP which are two of the most visited NPs and is mostly ranches otherwise. Latest census shows ~600k people in Wyoming. Which is like a boro in NYC.

The last number I can find on Yellowstone annual budget is around $30 million. So each person in Wyoming would need to pay ~$50k in taxes each year to make that work out.


That's not much of a excuse. Those federal dollars generate millions of dollars in additional economic activity beyond the federal spending itself. Senators and Representatives purposely steer federal infrastructure to their states for just that reason.
 
2012-05-08 09:32:10 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Wyoming for example has Yellowstone


You'd have a point if the park was free to enter and had no impact on local tourism. As it stands, The Yellowstone National Park area (park and surrounds) has an annual income of $ 4.2 billion. And that was in 2003.
 
2012-05-08 09:40:04 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: This just in: there's a difference between states and countries


The EU is really a country at this point, with several different states. The only thing remaining is that each country has an independent armed forces, but fiscally, it's more useful to think of the EU as one big country since they share a common currency, have a common court which can issue binding decisions, and have no work or trade borders.
 
2012-05-08 09:43:04 AM  

DoBeDoBeDo: Some of the western states are like that because there is more federal land than private land in the state.


Much of which generates income. In fact, I'm pretty sure a lot of national forests actually pay for themselves to a significant extent through tourism.

Despite the Ron Paul fanatics' biatching, money just doesn't magically appear out of nowhere, it gets created through the application of work. While there are certainly significant caveats to just saying "oh, X state gets X dollars" without any context, the fact remains that the money is still generated in the blue states and moved to the red ones.

Certainly VA gets a portion of its money because it just happens to house large pieces of critical government infrastructure, but that's just VA. It doesn't explain away places like Mississippi and West Virginia which get a lot of federal spending for one very simple reason: they're friggin' poor.

No, the chart doesn't stand up very well as a specific argument against any individual red state, but it does effectively illustrate the fact that a large portion of the country's economy is driven by blue states and sapped by red ones.

Yes, conservative states are leeches. That is a sound, if very general, conclusion.
 
2012-05-08 09:45:07 AM  
At the same time those rednecks are down there protesting socialism and wealth redistribution and whatever else Fox News tells them the black guy in charge is doing.
 
2012-05-08 09:50:17 AM  

Dwight_Yeast: DoBeDoBeDo: Wyoming for example has Yellowstone

You'd have a point if the park was free to enter and had no impact on local tourism. As it stands, The Yellowstone National Park area (park and surrounds) has an annual income of $ 4.2 billion. And that was in 2003.


I do still have a point, that graph is strictly on TAX dollars spent per TAX dollar received. It doesn't include things like money made off of that tax dollar spent.

The Fed isn't taxing itself on money they make.
 
2012-05-08 09:53:38 AM  

monoski: At the same time those rednecks are down there protesting socialism and wealth redistribution and whatever else Fox News tells them the black guy in charge is doing.


It would be fun for the Democrats to announce that Medicare was being given over to each state, with no redistribution, and then show people in the red states the sort of health care they'll be looking forward to, based on their state's current contribution to the program.

"Dear Mrs. Smith:

Based on Florida's current contribution to Medicare, without a sharp increase in taxes, we're not going to be able to afford the payments on your hoverround anymore. You'll be receiving monthly bills for $200."

Not that I think they'd understand the irony, just that it would be funny.
 
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