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(USA Today)   USA Today speaks out against the 19 states that still permit corporal punishment in schools. That's a paddlin'   (usatoday.com) divider line 223
    More: Interesting, USA TODAY, U.S. Department of Education, Kodachrome, corporal punishments, racial prejudices  
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3240 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2012 at 12:02 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-08 12:59:23 PM
I live in Tennessee. The school my children attend (Steven 3rd grade and Allison pre-K) allows spanking. I put it in writing that no one at the school is to spank my children. If a situation arises where a paddling is needed, call me or my husband, and one of us will go to the school and spank the kid. I want to ensure that the school's criteria for spanking meets mine. If it does, I spank; if not, I do not. But, I have told them, if either one of them forces me or my husband to leave work, a whoopin' at school will be nothing compared to when they get home.

I do not necessarily see the problem with today's kids as a lack of parents spanking their kids, but rather as parents not holding their children responsible for their actions/choices. When parents blame music, video games, movies, tv, teachers, their kids' friends, or anyone or anything other than the child who made the choice to act out, then the parents are the ones to blame.

Children must be held accountable for their actions. Choose the action, choose the consequences.

I was whooped as a kid.
 
2012-05-08 01:00:21 PM

12349876: so you'd be okay if your boss did it to you now if you screwed up at work?


Only if I get to pick the outfit she wears.
 
2012-05-08 01:00:58 PM
If you need to hit your kids to discipline them, you don't deserve to be a parent.

If educators can't manage their classrooms without hitting kids, they don't deserve to have jobs.

Fact. Science.
 
2012-05-08 01:01:09 PM
So many people here who would freak out and harm people because their children were disciplined.

Everything does not work with everyone. Time-outs and groundings work with some kids, but they don't work on every kid. Just like with bullies, you have to use different deterrence methods on different people, and for some the only thing they respond to is force. Sorry, but that's the reality of life, no matter how much you want the world to hold hands and sing "Kumbaya".

And it's really amusing and sad how you try to equate a disciplinary paddling with wife beating or flat-out assault in order to make it seem worse and inflate your "outrage".
 
2012-05-08 01:01:27 PM

meanmutton: If my kid choked the class pet to death, I'd be upset about a paddling because what she'd need is a psychiatrist, not a paddle.


And you said pretty much what I was about to
 
2012-05-08 01:02:17 PM

Shakespeare's Sister: I live in Tennessee. The school my children attend (Steven 3rd grade and Allison pre-K) allows spanking. I put it in writing that no one at the school is to spank my children. If a situation arises where a paddling is needed, call me or my husband, and one of us will go to the school and spank the kid. I want to ensure that the school's criteria for spanking meets mine. If it does, I spank; if not, I do not. But, I have told them, if either one of them forces me or my husband to leave work, a whoopin' at school will be nothing compared to when they get home.

I do not necessarily see the problem with today's kids as a lack of parents spanking their kids, but rather as parents not holding their children responsible for their actions/choices. When parents blame music, video games, movies, tv, teachers, their kids' friends, or anyone or anything other than the child who made the choice to act out, then the parents are the ones to blame.

Children must be held accountable for their actions. Choose the action, choose the consequences.

I was whooped as a kid.


Well said.
 
2012-05-08 01:02:40 PM
As long as they call me and say "Hey, your son needs to be paddled for..." then yes, go ahead.

If he gets paddled without my permission, then we have problems.
 
2012-05-08 01:05:03 PM

Patronick313: If you need to hit your kids to discipline them, you don't deserve to be a parent.

If educators can't manage their classrooms without hitting kids, they don't deserve to have jobs.

Fact. Science.


Nonsense, have you been in a school lately? They call the police and charge them with a crime when they act up now. Yea a criminal record will teach em. And you are confusing with "needing' and knowing what works on a kid.
 
2012-05-08 01:06:11 PM

ponytd: Paddling made me think about the consequences of my actions. And I still think like that. I'm an advocate of paddling, as long as it's not over the top. There's a difference between paddling and beating.


From the 5th grade on up I don't think I ever knew anyone who was paddled hard enough that they cried. There was exactly one set of parents who had a problem with the district's paddling policy. This was before it was decided that kids are always angels all of the time and that in the rare instance that they aren't, the proper response is to medicate them into compliance and maybe they'll sort of figure out the relationship between actions and consequences.

No one is saying that it's always the answer, and it's usually not, but good grief it's not the sadistic practice that some are making it out to be.
 
2012-05-08 01:08:45 PM
Honestly you all act like spanking will put the kid in the hospital for week. WTF is wrong with you? When I got spanked (with a wooden spoon) it was too sharp stings the behind and then it was done. It didn't scar me for like or any of the soft heated nonsense new age parents come up with these days. I think I was 4 that last time I got spanked for anything because after that my parents could talk it out with me and I was a little more mature to be able to understand them. I can't imagine how completely out of control an elementary school child is that they need to be spanked. At that point, they need psychiatric intervention because their parents failed them.
 
2012-05-08 01:10:10 PM

Endive Wombat: I find it to be astounding that we tell our children that violence solves nothing and yet, there are educators that do the exact opposite directly to said kids.


If you're telling a kid that violence solves nothing, you're part of the problem.
 
2012-05-08 01:14:28 PM

Sticky Hands: The kid that grew up next door to me was a bit of a trouble maker and eventually was sent by his parents to live with his uncle in Louisiana, where apparently they were still paddling high school kids.

He claimed that turned his ass around.


My last paddling was in the 9th grade and it was at the hands of the PE teacher. It hurt like hell and holy fark, I stopped being such an assclown at that point. At least in school.
 
2012-05-08 01:18:19 PM
Keizer_Ghidorah: So many people here who would freak out and harm people because their children were disciplined.

So in your mind a 40 year old man hitting my seven year old son or five year old daughter is "discipline" but me hitting that same 40 year old man is "harm"? Sorry, that's simply not the way it's supposed to work in 21st century America. And it's not ITG to say, as others have said in this thread: "You hit my child, I hit you." It's just how it is.
 
2012-05-08 01:19:09 PM

Endive Wombat: Without trying to sound too much like an ITG here...if someone of authority, especially in an educational setting ever raises a hand to my child, I will end up in jail and they will end up in the hospital. Simple. You think it is okay to react to a child with violence to their undesirable behavior Mr. Educator? Fine. Your undesirable behavior with my kid will result in me causing you to bleed in some major capacity and be in a lot of pain.

I find it to be astounding that we tell our children that violence solves nothing and yet, there are educators that do the exact opposite directly to said kids.


you know what? stop being an internet tough guy. first off, your kid would not be spanked at school without your permission. second, don't pretend that you would assault someone for spanking your kid; chances are great that YOUR mom or dad will have spanked your kid by then.

Spanking, paddling, corporal punishment - those things actually WORK and keep kids that would otherwise run amok in line. You simply have to look at current events to know exactly WHY taking corporal punishment from educators was a bad idea - would you rather your kid get a paddling at school for being bad, or have a cop come and arrest your kid for acting up, cuff the kid, take the kid out of school, ect. ?

Paddling works, and taking it away from educators was a bad idea. Sometimes.... kids need a farking paddling.
 
2012-05-08 01:20:53 PM

Gonz: If someone were to strike one of my kids, there would be a physical altercation between me and that person.

Call me a hippie if you like, but I'm not in favor of people being allowed to commit assault just because of a difference in age. If you're so immature that the only way you can show displeasure with a child's action is by physical abuse, you shouldn't be working in education.


STFU Hippie!!!
 
2012-05-08 01:20:58 PM
I don't know what to think. Kids nowadays are disrespectful little assholes and school administrations are dysfunctional train wrecks. I guess I'll just be glad my kids are grown and go watch Matlock.
 
2012-05-08 01:21:03 PM
Hmmm. Kentucky still allows paddling? News to me.
 
2012-05-08 01:24:15 PM

Barricaded Gunman: Keizer_Ghidorah: So many people here who would freak out and harm people because their children were disciplined.

So in your mind a 40 year old man hitting my seven year old son or five year old daughter is "discipline" but me hitting that same 40 year old man is "harm"? Sorry, that's simply not the way it's supposed to work in 21st century America. And it's not ITG to say, as others have said in this thread: "You hit my child, I hit you." It's just how it is.


You plan to hit the 40 year old man exactly as hard as he hit your child?

Either way, it is totally ITG to say that. It's either ITG or just plain stupid. That's what changing schools and filing lawsuits are for.
 
2012-05-08 01:25:34 PM

frepnog: Endive Wombat: Without trying to sound too much like an ITG here...if someone of authority, especially in an educational setting ever raises a hand to my child, I will end up in jail and they will end up in the hospital. Simple. You think it is okay to react to a child with violence to their undesirable behavior Mr. Educator? Fine. Your undesirable behavior with my kid will result in me causing you to bleed in some major capacity and be in a lot of pain.

I find it to be astounding that we tell our children that violence solves nothing and yet, there are educators that do the exact opposite directly to said kids.

you know what? stop being an internet tough guy. first off, your kid would not be spanked at school without your permission. second, don't pretend that you would assault someone for spanking your kid; chances are great that YOUR mom or dad will have spanked your kid by then.

Spanking, paddling, corporal punishment - those things actually WORK and keep kids that would otherwise run amok in line. You simply have to look at current events to know exactly WHY taking corporal punishment from educators was a bad idea - would you rather your kid get a paddling at school for being bad, or have a cop come and arrest your kid for acting up, cuff the kid, take the kid out of school, ect. ?

Paddling works, and taking it away from educators was a bad idea. Sometimes.... kids need a farking paddling.


Actually, research shows that paddling in schools doesn't work
 
2012-05-08 01:26:03 PM

Ummon: Patronick313: If you need to hit your kids to discipline them, you don't deserve to be a parent.

If educators can't manage their classrooms without hitting kids, they don't deserve to have jobs.

Fact. Science.

Nonsense, have you been in a school lately? They call the police and charge them with a crime when they act up now. Yea a criminal record will teach em. And you are confusing with "needing' and knowing what works on a kid.


I work in a school, so yes.

"Knowing what works on a child"? So a grown adult inflicitng pain on a child causes said child to change some behavior, and you think that's some amazing human development insight? "Well if I just hit this kid with a paddle he'll listen, because I know from experience this child doesn't like to get beaten." What an absolutley stupid statment that is.

I pray you don't actually have kids. If you do, that you come to realize that creating pain and fear in a child is about as preverted a definition of the word "parent" as one can come up with.
 
2012-05-08 01:29:08 PM

Ummon: Patronick313: If you need to hit your kids to discipline them, you don't deserve to be a parent.

If educators can't manage their classrooms without hitting kids, they don't deserve to have jobs.

Fact. Science.

Nonsense, have you been in a school lately? They call the police and charge them with a crime when they act up now. Yea a criminal record will teach em. And you are confusing with "needing' and knowing what works on a kid.


I'd love to see a Venn diagram that shows the overlap between the people who feel that spanking is NEVER appropriate and the folks who believe in the zero tolerance policies that can have a kid suspended, if not expelled and facing charges, for taking something as benign as a butterknife to school.
 
2012-05-08 01:30:03 PM

Patronick313: Ummon: Patronick313: If you need to hit your kids to discipline them, you don't deserve to be a parent.

If educators can't manage their classrooms without hitting kids, they don't deserve to have jobs.

Fact. Science.

Nonsense, have you been in a school lately? They call the police and charge them with a crime when they act up now. Yea a criminal record will teach em. And you are confusing with "needing' and knowing what works on a kid.

I work in a school, so yes.

"Knowing what works on a child"? So a grown adult inflicitng pain on a child causes said child to change some behavior, and you think that's some amazing human development insight? "Well if I just hit this kid with a paddle he'll listen, because I know from experience this child doesn't like to get beaten." What an absolutley stupid statment that is.

I pray you don't actually have kids. If you do, that you come to realize that creating pain and fear in a child is about as preverted a definition of the word "parent" as one can come up with.


Quit being a dumbass. I was whipped, and I never feared my parents. What I did fear was negative consequences of poor decisions. Don't like spanking? Fine, don't do it. It's that simple. But don't take on such a dickhead attitude about it. Spanking=/=abuse.
 
2012-05-08 01:31:21 PM

Barricaded Gunman: Keizer_Ghidorah: So many people here who would freak out and harm people because their children were disciplined.

So in your mind a 40 year old man hitting my seven year old son or five year old daughter is "discipline" but me hitting that same 40 year old man is "harm"? Sorry, that's simply not the way it's supposed to work in 21st century America. And it's not ITG to say, as others have said in this thread: "You hit my child, I hit you." It's just how it is.


"You spanked my child with minimum force as a disciplinary measure, I'm going to savagely attack you with all my power as a sign of my righteous indignation!" And would you also run someone over with your car as a response to them accidentally bumping into your kid with a bike? How disproportionate retribution and "21st century America" you are.

Sorry, Charlie, but time-outs, heart-to-hearts, groundings, detentions, writing 500 sentences, and chanting "You bad child" just don't work on some kids. And stop acting like a spanking is equal to beating your wife or assaulting someone with a tire iron, a few swats on the ass to show bad actions have bad consequences isn't even comparable.
 
2012-05-08 01:32:27 PM

doubled99: Can't we all just live together in peace and harmony?



Have you studied much history?
 
2012-05-08 01:35:17 PM

Patronick313: I pray you don't actually have kids. If you do, that you come to realize that creating pain and fear in a child is about as preverted a definition of the word "parent" as one can come up with.


I gotta disagree here. I'm not too gung-ho about schools hitting kids but parents are a whole other story. A few well timed smacks on the ass when they are little will buy you years of respectful behavior. The funny thing is, as they get older just the knowledge that you'll do it if they step too far out of line makes it unlikely you'll ever have to lay a hand on them again.
 
2012-05-08 01:37:07 PM

babysealclubber: Hmmm. Kentucky still allows paddling? News to me.



Bourbon, college basketball, horse racing, paddling.....what's not to love?
 
2012-05-08 01:37:24 PM

meanmutton: frepnog: Endive Wombat: Without trying to sound too much like an ITG here...if someone of authority, especially in an educational setting ever raises a hand to my child, I will end up in jail and they will end up in the hospital. Simple. You think it is okay to react to a child with violence to their undesirable behavior Mr. Educator? Fine. Your undesirable behavior with my kid will result in me causing you to bleed in some major capacity and be in a lot of pain.

I find it to be astounding that we tell our children that violence solves nothing and yet, there are educators that do the exact opposite directly to said kids.

you know what? stop being an internet tough guy. first off, your kid would not be spanked at school without your permission. second, don't pretend that you would assault someone for spanking your kid; chances are great that YOUR mom or dad will have spanked your kid by then.

Spanking, paddling, corporal punishment - those things actually WORK and keep kids that would otherwise run amok in line. You simply have to look at current events to know exactly WHY taking corporal punishment from educators was a bad idea - would you rather your kid get a paddling at school for being bad, or have a cop come and arrest your kid for acting up, cuff the kid, take the kid out of school, ect. ?

Paddling works, and taking it away from educators was a bad idea. Sometimes.... kids need a farking paddling.

Actually, research shows that paddling in schools doesn't work


well something used to work, and it wasn't the "everyone has their self image blown up to the point that reality is like a dream". I know when I was in school (in the South, in the 80's no less) that few kids were ever actually paddled... and when they were, the little shiats deserved it.
Schools in America right now are in trouble, and it certainly isn't because all the kids feel good about themselves all the time because of useless awards for doing nothing. It is because the school faculty can not discipline the kids any more, and the kids farking KNOW it. So they do what people do when authority fails - anything they want. 7 year old cusses a teacher? no problem. 10 year old punches a teacher? no sweat. 12 year old sexually assaults a classmate? it's ok. 13 year old brings a gun to school and kills 10 kids? that's fine.

when i was in high school, there was no such thing as school shootings (and this was in a day when most kids had easy access to a farking ARSENAL in a lot of homes). there were no kids cussing out the teachers. there SURELY were no kids physically assaulting faculty. It is ALL happening because stupid people took the ability to discipline away from the people that NEED it.

but yeah, spanking kids doesn't work. 0_o remember this - when your little snowflake gets out in the real world, his ass is going to get spanked and HARD by reality. In real life, no one gets a trophy for simply showing up.

/if any of the Columbine kids had been paddled a few times and disciplined appropriately when acting up, most of those kids would still be alive today.
 
2012-05-08 01:38:27 PM

The_Sponge: babysealclubber: Hmmm. Kentucky still allows paddling? News to me.


Bourbon, college basketball, horse racing, paddling.....what's not to love?


I'm telling you. If we get casinos legalized, this would be the new Las Vegas in no time.
 
2012-05-08 01:42:14 PM

babysealclubber: Patronick313: Ummon: Patronick313: If you need to hit your kids to discipline them, you don't deserve to be a parent.

If educators can't manage their classrooms without hitting kids, they don't deserve to have jobs.

Fact. Science.

Nonsense, have you been in a school lately? They call the police and charge them with a crime when they act up now. Yea a criminal record will teach em. And you are confusing with "needing' and knowing what works on a kid.

I work in a school, so yes.

"Knowing what works on a child"? So a grown adult inflicitng pain on a child causes said child to change some behavior, and you think that's some amazing human development insight? "Well if I just hit this kid with a paddle he'll listen, because I know from experience this child doesn't like to get beaten." What an absolutley stupid statment that is.

I pray you don't actually have kids. If you do, that you come to realize that creating pain and fear in a child is about as preverted a definition of the word "parent" as one can come up with.

Quit being a dumbass. I was whipped, and I never feared my parents. What I did fear was negative consequences of poor decisions. Don't like spanking? Fine, don't do it. It's that simple. But don't take on such a dickhead attitude about it. Spanking=/=abuse.


Yup, makes perfect sense:

Patronick313: "There are effective discipline tools for parents besides hitting kids."

(Aptly named) babbysealclubber: "You're a dickhead".

It's so logical I can't believe I didn't see it before. Thanks for the heads up.

Secondly, do you know what my favorite kind of evidence is? Anecdotal. "Well I was spanked/strapped/whipped/hair brushed/birched/belted/paddled and I turned out fine!" Well hot damn, that totally makes it ok then! WHY wasn't I informed of your personal story before I formed my opinion? Somebody alert the media, babysealclubber was hit as a kid and turned out fine, everyone. It's going to be ok!
 
2012-05-08 01:42:25 PM
Now that I think about, it it occurs to me that if your kid is such a disrespectful defiant little asshole that the school feels the need to paddle him, perhaps it's you who should be beaten for raising the little monster.
 
2012-05-08 01:45:01 PM
Never got spanked at school, but the principal was legendary for his paddle with all the big holes drilled in it. The holes meant less surface space for the force to be distributed on. At my quarter century high school reunion, many were reminiscing about the recently deceased principal, and how the mere THOUGHT of that paddle kept them in line. You see someone get sent to the office, and they come back 10 minutes later red-eyed and a little snot still dribbling down, you did NOT want to take that walk. I think I was five or six the last time I got swatted at home, and oh, they were VERY well earned. My dad had the standard wide leather belt, to be used by either parent. Swats weren't delivered in the heat of the moment. When Dad got home from work, we'd sit down to dinner while he and Mom talked in the kitchen, then they'd come in and announce what they had determined to be a fair punishment. Then, after dinner, you had to take that looooonnnng walk down the hall to their room, where you would drop trou and bend over the bed while they laid into your butt. Once was all it took, I knew there were consequences to my actions. When all us kids got out of hand, Pop would walk in, fold his belt in half, and give it a snap- instant silence, and all kids sitting respectfully. You can cry abuse and say my psyche was scarred all you want. It very seldom needed to be applied because it worked. There's a HUGE difference between my swats and abuse. And for all you ITG's who would 'put someone in the hospital for touching my crotchfruit', all you're teaching your kids is overblown self-righteousness and ridiculous overinflation of hostilities as the way to settle differences. George Carlin said that's how the first US/Iraq war started, the "Saddam Hussein questioned George Bush's manhood" routine. So you're advocating war-starting behavior as the proper way to teach your children? I can't decide if it's ironic or just hypocritical.

/my brother: *sniffle* 'I didn't cry, did you?'
me: 'No, not me.' *blew snot, wiped eyes*
But we never did it again. Tempted to a couple times, but didn't. Heh.
 
2012-05-08 01:46:00 PM
If you trained a dog by hitting it with a stick you'd go to jail but here we have a thread full of people defending the practice on human beings. Raising it up as one of the foundational planks of civilization even.

fark you.
 
2012-05-08 01:47:26 PM

Patronick313: (Aptly named)


Well don't alert the media until I get done, because no one informed me that a Fark login is tied to the validity of your opinion.

Patronick313: babbysealclubber: "You're a dickhead".


I didn't call you a dickhead. I said don't take on such a dickhead attitude. Learn to quote. My god, you didn't even spell my name right, much less quote anything I actually said.


Like I said, if you don't like corporal punishment don't use it, dickhead. And you quote me on that.
 
2012-05-08 01:48:37 PM

Ned Stark: If you trained a dog by hitting it with a stick you'd go to jail but here we have a thread full of people defending the practice on human beings. Raising it up as one of the foundational planks of civilization even.

fark you.



Given your name, I'm quite surprised that you would not agree that King Joffrey deserves one hell of a spanking.

/With the sharp edge of a sword.
 
2012-05-08 01:49:17 PM

Ned Stark: If you trained a dog by hitting it with a stick you'd go to jail


Between this and learning that my state still paddles, my head is overflowing with new information.
 
2012-05-08 01:50:57 PM

The_Sponge: Even if your kid did something really bad?


I'm not Gonz, but yes. My wife and I decide if we hit my children or not. No one else does. I'm for corporal punishment in terms of showing my children how it feels to be on the receiving end of physical force, if my child employed force, but I make the call. If my kid is shoving around someone else, hitting them, or otherwise exploiting physical superiority over any kid, I will considering showing my kid how "There is always a bigger guy out there, and it sucks to be on the losing end against the bigger guy." The school is free to tell me what happened, the parents of the other child can talk to me, and I will weigh those reports against what my child tells me. As a parent though I'm judge, jury, and executioner. You hit my kid for not paying attention in class and I'll go to the police and new paper with assault charges. Pull my kid's parents down to spank him and I'll do my best to get you on the sex offender's list. Schools have things like extra homework, removal of privileges (recess, separate lunch, etc) detention, in school suspension, expulsion, and calling the police as their tools. The parent holds sole control over physical punishment in my view.
 
2012-05-08 01:51:28 PM
Map of how often corporal punishment is used in all 50 states.

The state that uses corporal punishment far more than any other (7.5% of students, including those with disabilities) is Mississippi. Pick a state with a decent school system, and odds are they don't even allow corporal punishment.

frepnog: Spanking, paddling, corporal punishment - those things actually WORK and keep kids that would otherwise run amok in line.


Which must be why Mississippi is such a world-renowned bastion of educational achievement.
 
2012-05-08 01:51:52 PM

frepnog: when your little snowflake gets out in the real world, his ass is going to get spanked and HARD by reality. In real life, no one gets a trophy for simply showing up.


I 100% agree with this. However, physical discipline isn't the only, and frankly isn't the best, way to teach that to her. Making her compete at a wide variety of tasks (individual and team sports, science fairs, music, whatever), showing her the link between hard work and success, and giving her the skills to succeed (how to schedule her time, etc.) will do a much better job of preparing her for when she gets metaphorically knocked down in the real world than a paddle to the butt.

if any of the Columbine kids had been paddled a few times and disciplined appropriately when acting up, most of those kids would still be alive today.

The two kids at Columbine were mentally ill. I have not seen any studies which show that physical discipline is effective in combating violence caused by mental illness.

when i was in high school, there was no such thing as school shootings (and this was in a day when most kids had easy access to a farking ARSENAL in a lot of homes). there were no kids cussing out the teachers. there SURELY were no kids physically assaulting faculty. It is ALL happening because stupid people took the ability to discipline away from the people that NEED it.

The high school I went to didn't have any of those things, we live in an area where firearms are quite common (I mean, this is the US, isn't it?) and there was no physical discipline allowed at our school. So, I'm pretty sure you can handle disciplining students without resorting to physical discipline.
 
2012-05-08 01:52:41 PM
Patronick313 Smartest
Funniest
2012-05-08 01:00:58 PM


If you need to hit your kids to discipline them, you don't deserve to be a parent.

If educators can't manage their classrooms without hitting kids, they don't deserve to have jobs.

Fact. Science


9/10
 
2012-05-08 01:52:42 PM

clovis69: 19 states on list, "But, as USA TODAY reported recently, 19 states across the USA, mainly in the South, still permit corporal punishment", 11 of the states on the list are not in the "south".


"I will not tell lies" punishment for author
 
2012-05-08 01:53:18 PM

Lance Russell's Nose: Ummon: Patronick313: If you need to hit your kids to discipline them, you don't deserve to be a parent.

If educators can't manage their classrooms without hitting kids, they don't deserve to have jobs.

Fact. Science.

Nonsense, have you been in a school lately? They call the police and charge them with a crime when they act up now. Yea a criminal record will teach em. And you are confusing with "needing' and knowing what works on a kid.

I'd love to see a Venn diagram that shows the overlap between the people who feel that spanking is NEVER appropriate and the folks who believe in the zero tolerance policies that can have a kid suspended, if not expelled and facing charges, for taking something as benign as a butterknife to school.


If it helps your research, I'm for column A but not column B. Suspending a kid because of a butter knife or because a girl had Midol in her purse and shared it with another student is ridiculous. I'm in the zero tolerance = zero intelligence camp for regulations like that because there are reasons, excuses and circumstances that can be rational and acceptable.

Show me a situation where hitting a child is acceptable. Go ahead, I'll wait.
 
2012-05-08 01:53:45 PM

Ned Stark: If you trained a dog by hitting it with a stick you'd go to jail but here we have a thread full of people defending the practice on human beings. Raising it up as one of the foundational planks of civilization even.

fark you.


Dogs are far more eager to please than kids. An undisciplined kid is a farking nightmare. An undisciplined dog is a pain in the ass.
 
2012-05-08 01:54:33 PM
The youth in Canada don't get hit by teachers and I think they are behaving good for the most part
 
2012-05-08 01:54:58 PM

ha-ha-guy: The_Sponge: Even if your kid did something really bad?

I'm not Gonz, but yes. My wife and I decide if we hit my children or not. No one else does. I'm for corporal punishment in terms of showing my children how it feels to be on the receiving end of physical force, if my child employed force, but I make the call. If my kid is shoving around someone else, hitting them, or otherwise exploiting physical superiority over any kid, I will considering showing my kid how "There is always a bigger guy out there, and it sucks to be on the losing end against the bigger guy." The school is free to tell me what happened, the parents of the other child can talk to me, and I will weigh those reports against what my child tells me. As a parent though I'm judge, jury, and executioner. You hit my kid for not paying attention in class and I'll go to the police and new paper with assault charges. Pull my kid's pants down to spank him and I'll do my best to get you on the sex offender's list. Schools have things like extra homework, removal of privileges (recess, separate lunch, etc) detention, in school suspension, expulsion, and calling the police as their tools. The parent holds sole control over physical punishment in my view.


you are part of the problem.
 
2012-05-08 01:56:36 PM

chimp_ninja: Map of how often corporal punishment is used in all 50 states.

The state that uses corporal punishment far more than any other (7.5% of students, including those with disabilities) is Mississippi. Pick a state with a decent school system, and odds are they don't even allow corporal punishment.


That could be a causal fallacy. Maybe the schools use corporal punishment more because the kids aren't as well behaved.
 
2012-05-08 01:57:59 PM

Patronick313: Show me a situation where hitting a child is acceptable. Go ahead, I'll wait.


See? This is where you're being a dickhead. Whether or not the situation calls for corporal punishment is up to the parent. There's no right or wrong, as long as it's legal.
 
2012-05-08 01:58:16 PM

Barricaded Gunman: Gonz: Call me a hippie if you like, but I'm not in favor of people being allowed to commit assault just because of a difference in age. If you're so immature that the only way you can show displeasure with a child's action is by physical abuse, you shouldn't be working in education.

Goddamn THIS.


Know how I know you two have never been near a school, or seen the way some smartass kids backtalk to teachers? And some just because they know the teacher can't do anything about it? It's probably YOUR kid that badly needs the ass whipping of his/her life. The teachers don't want to lose their jobs, but your foul-mouthed inattentive, disruptive, precious snowflake can just walk all over them, spit in their coffee, etc. but it's OK, as long as everyone gets a "PARTICIPANT" award at the end of the day.
 
2012-05-08 02:01:55 PM

Patronick313: Show me a situation where hitting a child is acceptable. Go ahead, I'll wait.


The child has a firearm and is about to shoot someone.
 
2012-05-08 02:02:07 PM

meanmutton: frepnog: when your little snowflake gets out in the real world, his ass is going to get spanked and HARD by reality. In real life, no one gets a trophy for simply showing up.


I 100% agree with this. However, physical discipline isn't the only, and frankly isn't the best, way to teach that to her. Making her compete at a wide variety of tasks (individual and team sports, science fairs, music, whatever), showing her the link between hard work and success, and giving her the skills to succeed (how to schedule her time, etc.) will do a much better job of preparing her for when she gets metaphorically knocked down in the real world than a paddle to the butt.

if any of the Columbine kids had been paddled a few times and disciplined appropriately when acting up, most of those kids would still be alive today.

The two kids at Columbine were mentally ill. I have not seen any studies which show that physical discipline is effective in combating violence caused by mental illness.

when i was in high school, there was no such thing as school shootings (and this was in a day when most kids had easy access to a farking ARSENAL in a lot of homes). there were no kids cussing out the teachers. there SURELY were no kids physically assaulting faculty. It is ALL happening because stupid people took the ability to discipline away from the people that NEED it.

The high school I went to didn't have any of those things, we live in an area where firearms are quite common (I mean, this is the US, isn't it?) and there was no physical discipline allowed at our school. So, I'm pretty sure you can handle disciplining students without resorting to physical discipline.


that is conjecture at best. does it SEEM mentally ill to shoot a bunch of people? well, yes, but if they really WERE mentally ill, someone would have noticed long before hand. No one did.

They weren't mentally ill. Their plan was well thought out and executed almost perfectly and ended with them taking their own lives. farked up? oh yeah, baby. But those kids were not mentally ill. They were bullied for years and fed up.
 
2012-05-08 02:02:58 PM

meanmutton: Patronick313: Show me a situation where hitting a child is acceptable. Go ahead, I'll wait.

The child has a firearm and is about to shoot someone.


Or they've drowned two of your kids and just put the third one's head underwater.
 
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