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(The New York Times)   Forget bullet trains until America fixes this: "A recent trainload of sulfur took some 27 hours to pass through Chicago - an average speed of 1.13 miles per hour, or about a quarter the pace of many electric wheelchairs"   (nytimes.com) divider line 197
    More: Fail, Chicago, wheelchairs, sulfur, rush hour, Englewood  
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10396 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 May 2012 at 9:24 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-07 10:28:21 PM
freighters gonna freight
 
2012-05-07 10:28:52 PM
Subby: "Forget high speed internet, my grandma's AOL dial-up connection is super slow!"
 
2012-05-07 10:30:46 PM

WhyteRaven74: Mrtraveler01: It's essentially a clusterfark for trains in Chicago.

Everyone seen old pictures of downtown when there was a rail yard at the north end of Grant Park? It's something to think that not that long ago trains weren't just a part of the city off in some places where most people don't see them, they were right downtown.


The South Shore line in chicago ends at Millenium Station, which is all two blocks from Chicago. It's just underground
 
2012-05-07 10:31:05 PM

12349876: large airports


Midway isn't exactly large and owing to runway length and where it is there's a ton of planes it can't handle.
 
2012-05-07 10:34:32 PM

redmid17: It's just underground


Yeah that's the last vestige of the rails that run up to that part of the city. And the train tracks aren't below ground level, they're on ground level, the entire south part of downtown is actually above ground level or well street level is above ground level. One of the coolest things about Chicago, in a big chunk of downtown street level is not ground level.
 
2012-05-07 10:34:51 PM

WhyteRaven74: 12349876: large airports

Midway isn't exactly large and owing to runway length and where it is there's a ton of planes it can't handle.


True but unless Peotone is replacing one of the two current airports. Then it's a pretty stupid idea.

The fact there's no public transit access to it doesn't help either.
 
2012-05-07 10:34:54 PM

WhyteRaven74: 12349876: large airports

Midway isn't exactly large and owing to runway length and where it is there's a ton of planes it can't handle.


It can handle almost every kind of plane that would handle a domestic flight. It's just the international flights that Midway would have issues with.
 
2012-05-07 10:34:57 PM

WhyteRaven74: anarchy_x: When it was profitable to build railroads, we did. When it becomes profitable to rebuild the railroads, we will.

Decreasing time in transit for cargo is always profitable.

Baz the Spaz: Maybe they can build out the "Create" infrastructure and completely destroy the Englewood neighborhood in the process where 10 people get shot every weekend

There have been 111 homicides in Englewood since February 1, 2007. That's about 22 a year. Englewood hasn't been the worst neighborhood for homicides in Chicago in quite a few years now. Back in 1989? It was the worst, these days? Not so much. Now there is West Englewood which has had 129 homicides in that same time period. Of course Humboldt Park has had 126 during that time and Austin has had 176. So unless you conflate Englewood and West Englewood, you're way off. Also, the homicide rate in Englewood has continued to drop, so far this year there have been 6 homicide there, if that rate holds there were will be 18 there this year. That would be slightly less than a 20 percent decrease. And so far the homicide rate in West Englewood is holding steady.


WhyteRaven74...I stand corrected. You have obviously researched this well. So, I modify my suggestion: Let's build out the Create project through Englewood, West Englewood, Humbolt Park and Austin and take care of all the problems all at once. But then all those gang bangers will probably move down here to Kankakee. On second thought....
 
2012-05-07 10:35:17 PM

WhyteRaven74: 12349876: large airports

Midway isn't exactly large and owing to runway length and where it is there's a ton of planes it can't handle.


17 million passengers a year is a big airport (2008 numbers for Midway, more before recession) That's more passengers than the St. Louis airport.
 
2012-05-07 10:36:31 PM

RogermcAllen: I have no idea what the hell I am talking about.

Imagine that I said "tracks that only Amtark trains can run on".

/the thing about Amtrak trains pulling over still stands though


Amtrak trains are passenger rail, and in some instances, commuter rail. Passenger rail and commuter rail both have FRA (Federal Railroad Administration) regulations that would keep them from sharing track with light rail (which is designed to integrate with pedestrian and vehicle facilities.)

the part about Amtrak not owning their own rails is spot on, it's just light rail when it's intercity trains sharing capacity with freight.
 
2012-05-07 10:36:50 PM

WhyteRaven74: redmid17: It's just underground

Yeah that's the last vestige of the rails that run up to that part of the city. And the train tracks aren't below ground level, they're on ground level, the entire south part of downtown is actually above ground level or well street level is above ground level. One of the coolest things about Chicago, in a big chunk of downtown street level is not ground level.


I guess I meant the station was underground. I've only ridden it a few times. Chicago's loop area is an interesting exercise in city planning, that is for sure.
 
2012-05-07 10:36:54 PM
Forget bullet trains until America fixes this...

This is what bullet trains fix, you eeediote.
 
2012-05-07 10:37:00 PM
Motorized wheelchair vs. train.


www.jhsiess.com
 
2012-05-07 10:37:08 PM

12349876: 17 million passengers a year is a big airport (2008 numbers for Midway, more before recession) That's more passengers than the St. Louis airport.


Gee thanks for reminding me how far Lambert has sunk in the past decade.
 
2012-05-07 10:37:15 PM

WhyteRaven74: 12349876: large airports

Midway isn't exactly large and owing to runway length and where it is there's a ton of planes it can't handle.


Long runways? Who needs 'em?

IRTFA:

Meanwhile, in Japan:
tokyo5.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-05-07 10:37:23 PM

WhyteRaven74: so far this year there have been 6 homicides there, if that rate holds there were will be 18 there this year.


Don't count your homicides before they dispatch.
 
2012-05-07 10:37:47 PM

12349876: TheMatchHare: Mrtraveler01: Baz the Spaz: In turn, finance it using the money Cong. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-stupid), wants to spend on the Peotone airport, that so-called "3rd Chicago airport" that is not going to be located in Chicago and is not wanted by the airlines or the people it will displace.

Are they still planning for that stupid thing? I thought they finally killed it?

Nope. (pops)

That's stupid. Chicago already has 2 airports large airports plus Gary and Dupage have runways long enough for domestic service.


It does seem like a project that the O'Hare Modernization has made Peotone redundant. It might be something that non-United/American airlines come on board with when they realize that the current O'Hare project has built them into a corner in terms of terminal expansions and Midway is capped out, or it might be looking to pull freight service from O'Hare...but I honestly don't know enough about airlines & their needs to even speculate intelligently.
 
2012-05-07 10:38:02 PM
I never get why Americans are so uniquely opposed to investing in infrastructure of any kind. It seems so self-destructive.

And the ridiculous demands of profitability. Why should infrastructure be profitable? No, it's not directly profitable, but by facilitating the movement of people and goods, it makes the economy go.

We need a decent high-speed rail system and we need improvements in our roads and bridges.
 
2012-05-07 10:38:37 PM

Mrtraveler01: WhyteRaven74: 12349876: large airports

Midway isn't exactly large and owing to runway length and where it is there's a ton of planes it can't handle.

True but unless Peotone is replacing one of the two current airports. Then it's a pretty stupid idea.

The fact there's no public transit access to it doesn't help either.


I've been out of the loop for a while (they bought my buddy's house in Beecher around 2002), but I thought it was pretty well recognized that it would just end up as a freight airport to take a little bit of pressure off of ORD and MDW.
 
2012-05-07 10:40:23 PM

Benjimin_Dover: but until then engineers at some points have to get out of their cabins, walk the length of the train back to the switch - a mile or more - operate the switch, and then trudge back to their place at the head of the train before setting out again.

If only somebody could invent and build a special car for people to ride in at the end of a train.

[www.bnbfinder.com image 450x300]


I was going to say the same thing.
 
2012-05-07 10:40:57 PM

TheMatchHare: 12349876: TheMatchHare: Mrtraveler01: Baz the Spaz: In turn, finance it using the money Cong. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-stupid), wants to spend on the Peotone airport, that so-called "3rd Chicago airport" that is not going to be located in Chicago and is not wanted by the airlines or the people it will displace.

Are they still planning for that stupid thing? I thought they finally killed it?

Nope. (pops)

That's stupid. Chicago already has 2 airports large airports plus Gary and Dupage have runways long enough for domestic service.

It does seem like a project that the O'Hare Modernization has made Peotone redundant. It might be something that non-United/American airlines come on board with when they realize that the current O'Hare project has built them into a corner in terms of terminal expansions and Midway is capped out, or it might be looking to pull freight service from O'Hare...but I honestly don't know enough about airlines & their needs to even speculate intelligently.


I think one of the reasons airlines aren't crazy about the idea is because the location sucks.

55 miles to the Lo?op with no public transit access? Who the hell thought this was a good idea?
 
2012-05-07 10:41:56 PM

Doc Daneeka: I never get why Americans are so uniquely opposed to investing in infrastructure of any kind. It seems so self-destructive.

And the ridiculous demands of profitability. Why should infrastructure be profitable? No, it's not directly profitable, but by facilitating the movement of people and goods, it makes the economy go.

We need a decent high-speed rail system and we need improvements in our roads and bridges.


Great questions. People are willing to vote against their own self-interests, especially if they don't understand an issue. Every HSR thread on Fark makes it clear how few people actually understand the differences between different modes.
 
2012-05-07 10:42:28 PM

RogermcAllen: Mrtraveler01: WhyteRaven74: 12349876: large airports

Midway isn't exactly large and owing to runway length and where it is there's a ton of planes it can't handle.

True but unless Peotone is replacing one of the two current airports. Then it's a pretty stupid idea.

The fact there's no public transit access to it doesn't help either.

I've been out of the loop for a while (they bought my buddy's house in Beecher around 2002), but I thought it was pretty well recognized that it would just end up as a freight airport to take a little bit of pressure off of ORD and MDW.


That seems a tad more reasonable. But are folks like UPS and Fedex on board with this idea and moving operations from O'Hare to Peotone?
 
2012-05-07 10:42:31 PM

Snargi: If only somebody could invent and build a special car for people to ride in at the end of a train.

[www.bnbfinder.com image 450x300]

I was going to say the same thing.


Adding a second employee costs more than the time lost.
 
2012-05-07 10:42:40 PM

WhyteRaven74: Yeah that's the last vestige of the rails that run up to that part of the city. And the train tracks aren't below ground level, they're on ground level, the entire south part of downtown is actually above ground level or well street level is above ground level. One of the coolest things about Chicago, in a big chunk of downtown street level is not ground level.


Mostly because they shoveled all of the debris from the fire into the lake and created what is now Grant Park. The whole "East Side" of the city is built on top of landfill. I wouldn't actually say it's a "cool" feature of the city, it's a complete pain in the ass to cross LSD if you're on foot in a lot of places!
 
2012-05-07 10:43:53 PM

RogermcAllen: I've been out of the loop for a while (they bought my buddy's house in Beecher around 2002), but I thought it was pretty well recognized that it would just end up as a freight airport to take a little bit of pressure off of ORD and MDW.


Well in that case, they better not be spending much on a passenger terminal.

But from the look of the airport's front page, your assertion may be news to them.

The vision for the South Suburban Airport involves designing and constructing a supplemental, commercial service airfield that will serve the greater Chicagoland area.
 
cjo [TotalFark]
2012-05-07 10:44:34 PM
My electric wheelchair maxes out at 7.5 mph. Old people with slow chairs can suck it.
 
2012-05-07 10:45:15 PM

redmid17: It can handle almost every kind of plane that would handle a domestic flight. It'


Well it can handle 767's and A320's, but not much of anything bigger than that. And given the longest runway is 6,520 feet there's a lot of planes that can't land there. Or more to the point take off.
 
2012-05-07 10:47:28 PM

davidphogan: Doc Daneeka: I never get why Americans are so uniquely opposed to investing in infrastructure of any kind. It seems so self-destructive.

And the ridiculous demands of profitability. Why should infrastructure be profitable? No, it's not directly profitable, but by facilitating the movement of people and goods, it makes the economy go.

We need a decent high-speed rail system and we need improvements in our roads and bridges.

Great questions. People are willing to vote against their own self-interests, especially if they don't understand an issue. Every HSR thread on Fark makes it clear how few people actually understand the differences between different modes.


Come out west. The latest projects are to turn every inch of rail that goes unused for 6 months or longer into a goddam paved trail for bicycling. In the middle of nowhere. Railbanking is the word. And of course, everyone wants to ride a bike 30 miles to get to work, because its the green thing to do and railroads are Teh Evil.
 
2012-05-07 10:49:03 PM

WhyteRaven74: redmid17: It can handle almost every kind of plane that would handle a domestic flight. It'

Well it can handle 767's and A320's, but not much of anything bigger than that. And given the longest runway is 6,520 feet there's a lot of planes that can't land there. Or more to the point take off.


which doesn't make it much different from reagan and laguardia and london city.
 
2012-05-07 10:49:05 PM
"Forever seeking Archimedean levers for prying the world in directions they prefer, progressives say they embrace high-speed rail for many reasons-to improve the climate, increase competitiveness, enhance national security, reduce congestion, and rationalize land use. The length of the list of reasons, and the flimsiness of each, points to this conclusion: the real reason for progressives' passion for trains is their goal of diminishing Americans' individualism in order to make them more amenable to collectivism.

To progressives, the best thing about railroads is that people riding them are not in automobiles, which are subversive of the deference on which progressivism depends. Automobiles go hither and yon, wherever and whenever the driver desires, without timetables. Automobiles encourage people to think they-unsupervised, untutored, and unscripted-are masters of their fates. The automobile encourages people in delusions of adequacy, which make them resistant to government by experts who know what choices people should make.

Time was, the progressive cry was "Workers of the world unite!" or "Power to the people!" Now it is less resonant: "All aboard!" - George Will

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2011/02/27/high-speed-to-insolv e ncy.html


I'm even worse - My next motorcycle will be SINGLE-SEAT. fark YOU ALL.
 
2012-05-07 10:49:05 PM

Mrtraveler01: TheMatchHare: 12349876: TheMatchHare: Mrtraveler01: Baz the Spaz: In turn, finance it using the money Cong. Jesse Jackson, Jr. (IL-stupid), wants to spend on the Peotone airport, that so-called "3rd Chicago airport" that is not going to be located in Chicago and is not wanted by the airlines or the people it will displace.

Are they still planning for that stupid thing? I thought they finally killed it?

Nope. (pops)

That's stupid. Chicago already has 2 airports large airports plus Gary and Dupage have runways long enough for domestic service.

It does seem like a project that the O'Hare Modernization has made Peotone redundant. It might be something that non-United/American airlines come on board with when they realize that the current O'Hare project has built them into a corner in terms of terminal expansions and Midway is capped out, or it might be looking to pull freight service from O'Hare...but I honestly don't know enough about airlines & their needs to even speculate intelligently.

I think one of the reasons airlines aren't crazy about the idea is because the location sucks.

55 miles to the Lo?op with no public transit access? Who the hell thought this was a good idea?


Illinois politicians.
 
2012-05-07 10:50:01 PM

Shaggy_C: I wouldn't actually say it's a "cool" feature of the city, it's a complete pain in the ass to cross LSD if you're on foot in a lot of places!


Yeah it is, but it's awesome to actually go under the streets in the loops and realize that what you're walking is ground level, and that what you think of as the ground floor on all those buildings is actually the second floor. Or even third floor when you get near the Chicago River.
 
2012-05-07 10:51:51 PM

WhyteRaven74: redmid17: It can handle almost every kind of plane that would handle a domestic flight. It'

Well it can handle 767's and A320's, but not much of anything bigger than that. And given the longest runway is 6,520 feet there's a lot of planes that can't land there. Or more to the point take off.


I think you meant 737. The takeoff length of the smallest 767 is 5800' at MTOW, and that's assuming no obstacles, which Midway has plenty of. Anything over a 762 won't get off the ground at MDW unless you're leaving empty.
 
2012-05-07 10:52:21 PM

DarkVader: Seriously, why are trains heading into that gridlock if they're not actually going TO Chicago?


Take a look look our class I railroad map for your answer, basically we cut the country in half along the Mississippi river/Chicago axis so that 5-8 railways have defined territory to operate in. This is a great plan as long as you're dealing with a hub and spoke model (coal and iron to steel producers -> steel to factories -> goods shipped by truck to walmart) but sucks for through traffic (China -> Container -> west coast -> train headed east)

My guess is that the other inland interconnect points (St. Louis, Memphis) have similar gridlock issues. With New Orleans being a beast unto itself in addition to being a working pertrochemical, ore, bulk grain and container port.

pops
 
2012-05-07 10:53:02 PM

WhyteRaven74: redmid17: It can handle almost every kind of plane that would handle a domestic flight. It'

Well it can handle 767's and A320's, but not much of anything bigger than that. And given the longest runway is 6,520 feet there's a lot of planes that can't land there. Or more to the point take off.


Not many domestic routes require a plane bigger than that. Those that do wouldn't be flying into Midway instead of ORD. Midway was always going to be a secondary airport, especially after the ORD renovation, so it's filling its niche quite well if you ask me.
 
2012-05-07 10:54:54 PM

Mrtraveler01: 55 miles to the Lo?op with no public transit access? Who the hell thought this was a good idea?


This isn't entirely true. The Metra line ends in University park, so they could just extended it a few miles and end it at the airport. Almost nothing but cornfields between the two, so building the line would be pretty painless.

12349876: RogermcAllen: I've been out of the loop for a while (they bought my buddy's house in Beecher around 2002), but I thought it was pretty well recognized that it would just end up as a freight airport to take a little bit of pressure off of ORD and MDW.

Well in that case, they better not be spending much on a passenger terminal.

But from the look of the airport's front page, your assertion may be news to them.

The vision for the South Suburban Airport involves designing and constructing a supplemental, commercial service airfield that will serve the greater Chicagoland area.


I didn't say that is what they planned, just the general consensus among realists was that it would probably end up being freight since no one would want to fly there.
 
2012-05-07 10:56:02 PM

kroonermanblack: Am I the only one not super surprised by this? It's not like the train can go 50 through town.


No, but 15-20 mph is not uncommon. 1 1/4 mph is patently absurd.
 
2012-05-07 10:59:01 PM

Baz the Spaz:
But then all those gang bangers will probably move down here to Kankakee. On second thought....


I haven't been to Kankakee in about a decade now, but the ghettification of that town in ~2000 compared to the mid-80's was sad.
 
2012-05-07 11:00:40 PM

Jarhead_h: I'm even worse - My next motorcycle will be SINGLE-SEAT. fark YOU ALL.


Motorcycles get excellent gas mileage and use fewer resources than cars. Good work eco-brother.
 
2012-05-07 11:04:06 PM

buzzcut73: I think you meant 737. The takeoff length of the smallest 767 is 5800' at MTOW, and that's assuming no obstacles, which Midway has plenty of. Anything over a 762 won't get off the ground at MDW unless you're leaving empty.


Yeah I did mean the 737.
 
2012-05-07 11:04:54 PM

IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: redmid17:

The South Shore line in chicago ends at Millenium Station, which is all two blocks from Chicago. It's just underground

That's where the GOD DAMN Batman rode his motorcycle:

[www.movie-locations.com image 300x200]

/CSB


FTFY

i222.photobucket.com
 
2012-05-07 11:05:12 PM

IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: redmid17:

The South Shore line in chicago ends at Millenium Station, which is all two blocks from Chicago. It's just underground

That's where the Batman rode his motorcycle:

[www.movie-locations.com image 300x200]

/CSB


I love the South Shore through Gary. You get to see up close a lot of decay that you don't get on the Skyway.

Plus, is it just me or has the maintenance of the Indiana Toll Road gone to hell?
 
2012-05-07 11:07:27 PM

Rapmaster2000: IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: redmid17:

The South Shore line in chicago ends at Millenium Station, which is all two blocks from Chicago. It's just underground

That's where the Batman rode his motorcycle:

[www.movie-locations.com image 300x200]

/CSB

I love the South Shore through Gary. You get to see up close a lot of decay that you don't get on the Skyway.

Plus, is it just me or has the maintenance of the Indiana Toll Road gone to hell?


I haven't seen it get worse since it got leased out. I know some sections were shored up because my buddy lost a tire because of a pot hole (and his shiatty driving skills) driving to Chicago in college. That part of the skyway is flat and smooth now. The toll company has to upkeep maintenance or they lose their rights to the tollway.
 
2012-05-07 11:09:48 PM

redmid17:

That's where the GOD DAMN Batman rode his motorcycle:


I stand corrected. :)

Rapmaster2000:

I love the South Shore through Gary. You get to see up close a lot of decay that you don't get on the Skyway.

Plus, is it just me or has the maintenance of the Indiana Toll Road gone to hell?


Yeah, but for some reason, you don't get the same amount of stench that you do when you drive past Gary. *shrug*

I always thought the Skyway was worse, but I (thankfully) haven't had to traverse either of those road systems in a while now.
 
2012-05-07 11:11:30 PM

Mrtraveler01: We thought the same thing here in St. Louis when Lambert was still busy and so they built an airport in Illinois. And look at how busy it gets.



media.connectingstlouis.com

bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com

bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com

And they're going to make the SAME mistake in the SAME state this happened in?


The problem there is deregulation in the airline industry. They're getting rid of all but the most profitable flight and canceling as many out of small airports as they can. The same thing has happened to Pittsburgh and a number of other second and third string airports. There were a bunch of articles on the subject here recently.
 
2012-05-07 11:12:59 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: The last time I took the train, the four-hour ride lasted fourteen and a half hours.

/Sure, this was in Australia, not the US, but it still pissed me off.
//I'll never again board a train without a toilet.


What train were you taking? Our public transport companies seem to be infected by the typical Aussie 'She'll be right' attitude where meeting the bare minimum standards of service is the goal, not actually arriving and departing on time.
 
2012-05-07 11:15:58 PM
in michigan, they are ripping up the tracks all over the place. the only tracks are for the coal trains to the power plants...
the semi traffic just gets larger, and most run doubles, waiting to see a triple soon...
course, if they expanded the rail system, there would be much less semi traffic and less highway fatalities...
 
2012-05-07 11:19:39 PM

Fluorescent Testicle: The last time I took the train, the four-hour ride lasted fourteen and a half hours.


Yeah? Well, the last time I took a three-hour cruise, it lasted 98 episodes.

1.13 MPH doesn't mean the train slogged through the city like it was stuck in bumper-to-bumper traffic... It's more like "25 mph... stop for a while... some movement... stop again... back up.... repeat."

I ride the rails daily into NYC and I would not give it up for a car. 36 mi in about 1:20 (which includes 15 minutes of walking) for about $18 round trip, but you could not do better driving (60 min with no traffic, plus parking and tolls [$35])
 
2012-05-07 11:20:05 PM

redmid17: Rapmaster2000: IamSoSmart_S_M_R_T: redmid17:

The South Shore line in chicago ends at Millenium Station, which is all two blocks from Chicago. It's just underground

That's where the Batman rode his motorcycle:

[www.movie-locations.com image 300x200]

/CSB

I love the South Shore through Gary. You get to see up close a lot of decay that you don't get on the Skyway.

Plus, is it just me or has the maintenance of the Indiana Toll Road gone to hell?

I haven't seen it get worse since it got leased out. I know some sections were shored up because my buddy lost a tire because of a pot hole (and his shiatty driving skills) driving to Chicago in college. That part of the skyway is flat and smooth now. The toll company has to upkeep maintenance or they lose their rights to the tollway.


I haven't been on it in 2 years, but the last time I hit a section of rough road by Hammond Noll that was so bad it ranks as the worse stretch of interstate I can recall.
 
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