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(Yahoo)   Acupuncture, hypnosis effective in getting people to quit smoking, according to the Bureau of I've Never Done a Double Blind Study In My Life   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 138
    More: Unlikely, acupuncture, smoking  
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2534 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 May 2012 at 5:37 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-07 06:20:31 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Maverick Couch: skinink: Smeggy Smurf: I have a surefire way to help men stop smoking. Every time you light up we get to kick you in the balls. I guarantee you'll stop smoking in one day.

What if the person is a Eunuch with a pack a day habit?

They'd have the most disturbing voice ever?

Fran Drescher?


Link
 
2012-05-07 06:20:45 PM
If one can convince idiots to be suicide bombers using talk and videos, is it really a stretch to think one could also convince people to stop smoking, overeating, etc., using nebulous pseudo-scientific BS like acupuncture, hypnosis, or everyone's favorite, Scientology?

Admittedly though, how does one fake acupuncture for the control in a blind study?
 
2012-05-07 06:27:40 PM

delathi: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

I've seen double blind studies with acupuncture. Basically they make 3 groups, one gets nothing, one gets acupuncture as given by an acupuncturist, and the third group gets pokes with a needle in the "wrong" places.

Interestingly, they have shown a positive effect in both the "right" and the "wrong" stabbing groups that was outside the expected placebo range. So, in conclusion, poking people with needles seems to help alleviate pain, but it doesn't matter where you do it.


Actually that STILL is not a double blind study...

In a double blind the person administering the care doesn't know which their giving...

its impossible to do a double blind with acupuncture...


double-blind study - an experimental procedure in which neither the subjects of the experiment nor the persons administering the experiment know the critical aspects of the experiment; "a double-blind procedure is used to guard against both experimenter bias and placebo effects"
 
2012-05-07 06:28:41 PM
I just bought a KR808 this past week, so I'm getting a kick out of this.

/damn does my car reek a lot more than I realized.
 
2012-05-07 06:28:46 PM

downstairs: AverageAmericanGuy: I once went to an acupuncturist (free coupon) and he tried to cure my neck pain by sticking needles in my feet.

First he squeezed my neck on some pressure points and it hurt.
Then he stuck needles in my toes.
Finally he squeezed my neck again and it didn't hurt.

He was squeezing in different places, so of course it didn't hurt. Call me unimpressed by this charlatan.

Ha! That's classic. Also, from what I know of acupuncture for pain (which I still think is bogus), is that the pain doesn't immediately go away.


It's not a placebo. It's that pain 'downwind' of the injured part of the body increases blood flow to the part of the body you want treated. So for lower back pain, sticking needles anywhere below the waist will help for a couple of weeks.

Personally, I'd prefer massage therapy....
 
2012-05-07 06:29:07 PM

crashumbc: delathi: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

I've seen double blind studies with acupuncture. Basically they make 3 groups, one gets nothing, one gets acupuncture as given by an acupuncturist, and the third group gets pokes with a needle in the "wrong" places.

Interestingly, they have shown a positive effect in both the "right" and the "wrong" stabbing groups that was outside the expected placebo range. So, in conclusion, poking people with needles seems to help alleviate pain, but it doesn't matter where you do it.

Actually that STILL is not a double blind study...

In a double blind the person administering the care doesn't know which their giving...

its impossible to do a double blind with acupuncture...


double-blind study - an experimental procedure in which neither the subjects of the experiment nor the persons administering the experiment know the critical aspects of the experiment; "a double-blind procedure is used to guard against both experimenter bias and placebo effects"


exactly: You would have to train one group of people to do 'right' acupuncture and one group to do 'wrong' acupuncture to make it double blind.
 
2012-05-07 06:30:47 PM

JohnBigBootay: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I only have personal experience to rely on. In a moment of stupidity several years ago I went to see a well thought of hypnotist to quit smoking. My health insurance even paid for it. What a painful hour that was. Turns out that - from my extremely limited experience - hypnotism is an even bigger crock than I originally thought. That I did not quit smoking isn't even the point. The point is that at no time was I anything remotely akin to hypnotized.


Its really hard to hypnotise someone who doesn't cooperate.
 
2012-05-07 06:31:15 PM

Tyrosine: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

Clearly you are unfamiliar with the stunning research standards of disciplines such as Ecology, Psychology, Sociology, and yes, "alternative medicine".

/CSB: Once sat through an ecology seminar where the presenter equated crown gall tumors in plants to cancer and suggested that crown galls could be used to test oncological therapeutics.


Please tell me this wasn't an actual university professor with a real science degree.

//afraid of the answer
 
2012-05-07 06:31:53 PM

crashumbc: delathi: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

I've seen double blind studies with acupuncture. Basically they make 3 groups, one gets nothing, one gets acupuncture as given by an acupuncturist, and the third group gets pokes with a needle in the "wrong" places.

Interestingly, they have shown a positive effect in both the "right" and the "wrong" stabbing groups that was outside the expected placebo range. So, in conclusion, poking people with needles seems to help alleviate pain, but it doesn't matter where you do it.

Actually that STILL is not a double blind study...

In a double blind the person administering the care doesn't know which their giving...

its impossible to do a double blind with acupuncture...


double-blind study - an experimental procedure in which neither the subjects of the experiment nor the persons administering the experiment know the critical aspects of the experiment; "a double-blind procedure is used to guard against both experimenter bias and placebo effects"


Good point. New plan. I'll stick pins in people randomly. Eventually I'm bound to get someone in a real acupuncture spot.
 
2012-05-07 06:34:16 PM

JohnBigBootay: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I only have personal experience to rely on. In a moment of stupidity several years ago I went to see a well thought of hypnotist to quit smoking. My health insurance even paid for it. What a painful hour that was. Turns out that - from my extremely limited experience - hypnotism is an even bigger crock than I originally thought. That I did not quit smoking isn't even the point. The point is that at no time was I anything remotely akin to hypnotized.


There are people who can't be hypnotized from what I've heard on the subject. My personal experience was that back in high school, my friends and I were screwing around with a method one of them knew, and I managed to make my best friend sneeze on command. We used a word that was a character name from a fantasy novel to be safe, so it wouldn't be something that she'd encounter in random conversation. We made her sneeze a good dozen times before she demanded to be put back under and have the compulsion removed.

I never did it again for anyone because that was pretty freaky. I'm certainly a skeptic when it comes to paranormal stuff but it's my opinion that the power of suggestion CAN work very well and shouldn't be abused when people trust you enough to do so...
 
2012-05-07 06:34:33 PM

JohnBigBootay: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I only have personal experience to rely on. In a moment of stupidity several years ago I went to see a well thought of hypnotist to quit smoking. My health insurance even paid for it. What a painful hour that was. Turns out that - from my extremely limited experience - hypnotism is an even bigger crock than I originally thought. That I did not quit smoking isn't even the point. The point is that at no time was I anything remotely akin to hypnotized.


Not everyone can be. That doesn't make it quackery.

meat0918: Although acupuncture was found effective for chronic low back pain, tailoring needling sites to each patient and penetration of the skin appear to be unimportant in eliciting therapeutic benefits. These findings raise questions about acupuncture's purported mechanisms of action. It remains unclear whether acupuncture or our simulated method of acupuncture provide physiologically important stimulation or represent placebo or nonspecific effects.

My hypothesis: The Placebo Effect is an amazing thing, and I have no qualms about exploiting it in conjunction with REAL medicine.

//I'm going to look for studies on whether "warm and inviting" doctors have better results than "cold and analytical" doctors


Some comments on this:

1) Admittedly limited observations suggest that most acupuncturists in this country aren't very competent--this definitely includes the acupuncture in one study involving it's use in helping treat drug addiction. I rather suspect a lot of this is comparing wrong-site acupuncture to only-believed-to-be-right-site acupuncture.

1a) The US trained ones will be more likely to be involved in the research as they have a better understanding of the scientific method and English will normally be their native tongue. They'll also tend to be the inferior ones.

2) Since acupuncture hasn't been (and probably can't be) subjected to properly blinded experiments there will most certainly be some placebo effect results.

2a) I'm in an interesting position on this--my mother practiced hypnosis, among other things to help people quit smoking. (Yes, it does work, but it's only a help, not a silver bullet.) My wife does acupuncture. One day I described to my mother what my wife did to help people quit smoking--and my mother immediately realized it would work even if the needles were of no benefit. Reduced to it's essential elements it was exactly the same thing she was doing with hypnosis. Whether the needles conferred any additional benefit would be quite hard to tell.
 
2012-05-07 06:38:10 PM

Loren: 2a) I'm in an interesting position on this--my mother practiced hypnosis, among other things to help people quit smoking. (Yes, it does work, but it's only a help, not a silver bullet.) My wife does acupuncture. One day I described to my mother what my wife did to help people quit smoking--and my mother immediately realized it would work even if the needles were of no benefit. Reduced to it's essential elements it was exactly the same thing she was doing with hypnosis. Whether the needles conferred any additional benefit would be quite hard to tell.


If "practitioners" can realize this, why aren't there some meditation or relaxation exercises promoted instead?
 
2012-05-07 06:39:45 PM

LoneWolf343: JohnBigBootay: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I only have personal experience to rely on. In a moment of stupidity several years ago I went to see a well thought of hypnotist to quit smoking. My health insurance even paid for it. What a painful hour that was. Turns out that - from my extremely limited experience - hypnotism is an even bigger crock than I originally thought. That I did not quit smoking isn't even the point. The point is that at no time was I anything remotely akin to hypnotized.

Its really hard to hypnotise someone who doesn't cooperate isn't stupid.


ftfy
 
2012-05-07 06:39:56 PM
Agh, God. There's nothing I can't stand more than these "natural health" charlatans. They get a degree in some bogus field of study, and then you can just watch them go to town on people who don't know better. It's your chi, it's your merideans, it's your spinal alignment. People fall right into this Placebo effect bullshiat. That's why half of chiropractic and other "natural health" BS is *pure marketing. Nothing more, nothing less. Come here, darling, let me sell you a bogus "natural cure" and some overpriced vitamins while I sit here on my high horse telling you about the EEEVILS of pharmaceuticals and vaccines. Farkin forget that shiz.
 
2012-05-07 06:41:09 PM
I am usually the first person to criticize quackery, but when one of my neighbors was using a homeopathic anti-smoking thing (otherwise known as expensive water in a small package) to help her quit, I kept my mouth shut.

At this point, whatever people need to do to quit, do it.

/Don't volunteer for lung disease. It's shiat when anyone gets it, but volunteering is stupid.
 
2012-05-07 06:41:39 PM

crashumbc: delathi: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

I've seen double blind studies with acupuncture. Basically they make 3 groups, one gets nothing, one gets acupuncture as given by an acupuncturist, and the third group gets pokes with a needle in the "wrong" places.

Interestingly, they have shown a positive effect in both the "right" and the "wrong" stabbing groups that was outside the expected placebo range. So, in conclusion, poking people with needles seems to help alleviate pain, but it doesn't matter where you do it.

Actually that STILL is not a double blind study...

In a double blind the person administering the care doesn't know which their giving...

its impossible to do a double blind with acupuncture...


double-blind study - an experimental procedure in which neither the subjects of the experiment nor the persons administering the experiment know the critical aspects of the experiment; "a double-blind procedure is used to guard against both experimenter bias and placebo effects"


A double blind is an experiment where the experimenters and researchers don't know who the control groups are during the experiment.

I am the data control. You are part of Group A. He is part of Group B. Neither of you knows anything about acupuncture. One of you is told the proper points of acupuncture access. Neither of you know which, nor do your subjects, or the people performing the study, until all the data is collected and I say "Group A was given bullshiat info and Group B was given correct info."

Now you have a very basic double blind study framework for acupuncture. You can make it more elaborate by adding additional control groups under the same circumstances with additional tests, like needles that do not pierce the skin for group C and D, in addition to the same control parameters for A and B.

There's nothing impossible about it.
 
2012-05-07 06:44:03 PM

LoneWolf343: Its really hard to hypnotise someone who doesn't cooperate.


I cooperated my ass off. Hell, I wanted it to work AT LEAST as much as he did. That's why I took the time off work and schlepped downtown and forked over the co-pay. I wasn't doing it for a blog post or the lulz, I wanted to quit smoking and had heard some folks have success with hypnotists so I have it an honest shot.
 
rpm
2012-05-07 06:44:14 PM

crashumbc: its impossible to do a double blind with acupuncture...


Except for the minor fact that it's been done.

Tubes that contain dummy needle or not. Pressing down does or doesn't do anything. In some cases it penetrates the skin, in others it doesn't.

Didn't exceed placebo.
 
2012-05-07 06:44:31 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I'd bet none of them were. It's a little hard to poke needles in people without them noticing. You know, so they don't know whether they're getting acupuncture.


You could if you hypnotized them first.
 
2012-05-07 06:44:42 PM

Loren: 2a) I'm in an interesting position on this--my mother practiced hypnosis, among other things to help people quit smoking. (Yes, it does work, but it's only a help, not a silver bullet.) My wife does acupuncture.


So you're not biased at all, of course.
 
2012-05-07 06:44:53 PM
You can do double-blind acupuncture studies. Group A gets stuck in places according to acupuncture theory, while group B gets stuck at random. Only the needle-pushers know which group is which.

/increased cost + patch = no more cigarettes
 
2012-05-07 06:45:10 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I'd bet none of them were. It's a little hard to poke needles in people without them noticing. You know, so they don't know whether they're getting acupuncture.


That's kind of like saying, "I bet that pill study wasn't double blind. It's a little hard to get people to swallow pills without them noticing."

Stick needles in one group randomly and in the other group where acupuncture says they should work. Not really hard.
 
2012-05-07 06:45:49 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk:
So you've always walked around acting like a chicken?

/the hypnotist would have woken you up, but he needed the eggs


Came for a chicken joke. Leaving satisfied...
 
2012-05-07 06:46:17 PM

StaleCoffee: crashumbc: delathi: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

I've seen double blind studies with acupuncture. Basically they make 3 groups, one gets nothing, one gets acupuncture as given by an acupuncturist, and the third group gets pokes with a needle in the "wrong" places.

Interestingly, they have shown a positive effect in both the "right" and the "wrong" stabbing groups that was outside the expected placebo range. So, in conclusion, poking people with needles seems to help alleviate pain, but it doesn't matter where you do it.

Actually that STILL is not a double blind study...

In a double blind the person administering the care doesn't know which their giving...

its impossible to do a double blind with acupuncture...


double-blind study - an experimental procedure in which neither the subjects of the experiment nor the persons administering the experiment know the critical aspects of the experiment; "a double-blind procedure is used to guard against both experimenter bias and placebo effects"

A double blind is an experiment where the experimenters and researchers don't know who the control groups are during the experiment.

I am the data control. You are part of Group A. He is part of Group B. Neither of you knows anything about acupuncture. One of you is told the proper points of acupuncture access. Neither of you know which, nor do your subjects, or the people performing the study, until all the data is collected and I say "Group A was given bullshiat info and Group B was given correct info."

Now you have a very basic double blind study framework for acupuncture. You can make it more elaborate by adding additional control groups under the same circumstances with additional tests, like needles that do not pierce the skin for group C and D, in addition to th ...


Do you know how many YEARS, to be trained in acupuncture?

This isn't a CPR class in one afternoon...

technically its not impossible... but then neither is winning the lotto
 
2012-05-07 06:47:00 PM
My dad quit smoking via hypnosis. Hasn't had a smoke in over 30 years. He also had incentive in that he didn't want to smoke around a baby (me).

He says that on occasion a cigarette still smells good to him, but for him hypnosis worked. Not every method is right for every person.
 
2012-05-07 06:47:13 PM
Double blind! Oh my God! What does it mean?!?
 
2012-05-07 06:47:19 PM

Loren: Not everyone can be. That doesn't make it quackery.


I think that is debatable. If it helps some people, great. But I don't think 'believing in it' is a very reasonable trait to expect for your legitimate medical therapies.
 
2012-05-07 06:49:14 PM

shower_in_my_socks: My dad quit smoking via hypnosis. Hasn't had a smoke in over 30 years. He also had incentive in that he didn't want to smoke around a baby (me).

He says that on occasion a cigarette still smells good to him, but for him hypnosis worked. Not every method is right for every person.


Worked for my uncle, too. He went in to quit smoking, and ended up finding out he was anally probed by aliens. Actually smoked more after that.
 
2012-05-07 06:50:08 PM

crashumbc: Do you know how many YEARS, to be trained in acupuncture?This isn't a CPR class in one afternoon...technically its not impossible... but then neither is winning the lotto


It doesn't matter. It's an experiment looking for expected results. Sticking someone in X place should produce Y result. You don't need to train someone in acupuncture, you have someone trained in acupuncture lay out a small section and say "Do this to have it done properly."

Then that information is provided to the experiment.

If you're going to say they need some magic farking hand guiding the needle then let me introduce you to Slap Therapy. You stand there, I smack you, and the power of my hand will knock the stupid out, promise. 150 bucks a smack.
 
2012-05-07 06:50:56 PM
Accupuncture only works when used in conjuction with capsules of human flesh.
 
2012-05-07 06:50:59 PM

The First Four Black Sabbath Albums: Double blind! Oh my God! What does it mean?!?


It means I poke out BOTH eyes!
 
2012-05-07 06:51:01 PM
Damn people, just throw em away cold turkey and be done with em.

And before you asshats jump on me,,yes I smoked for about 15 yrs and decided it was time to quit.
 
2012-05-07 06:52:39 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: Worked for my uncle, too. He went in to quit smoking, and ended up finding out he was anally probed by aliens. Actually smoked more after that.


Must have been the Greys, those bastards work fast and never use lube.
 
2012-05-07 06:53:39 PM
I smoked filterless Pall Malls for over 20 years. Ten days into a Zyban prescription, I quit quite easily. I might add that I've never been known for my will power. Haven't had a smoke for over two years.
 
2012-05-07 06:53:41 PM
Just have Earl and Duke tell you to quit. Peer pressure can be effective.
 
2012-05-07 06:55:48 PM
I quite smoking after acupuncture. Maybe it's nonsense but it worked for me.
 
2012-05-07 06:58:49 PM

downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.


Actually, you can absolutely convince someone that their skin is being penetrated by a needle when it isn't: Link

(There are still issues in designing a proper control, but that aspect of it at least can be handled)
 
2012-05-07 07:04:48 PM

StaleCoffee: crashumbc: Do you know how many YEARS, to be trained in acupuncture?This isn't a CPR class in one afternoon...technically its not impossible... but then neither is winning the lotto

It doesn't matter. It's an experiment looking for expected results. Sticking someone in X place should produce Y result. You don't need to train someone in acupuncture, you have someone trained in acupuncture lay out a small section and say "Do this to have it done properly."

Then that information is provided to the experiment.

If you're going to say they need some magic farking hand guiding the needle then let me introduce you to Slap Therapy. You stand there, I smack you, and the power of my hand will knock the stupid out, promise. 150 bucks a smack.


He's exactly right. I can't draw a stick figure to save my life, but one day, I had an artist tell me how to draw something, and suddenly, I could do it perfectly!
Why do people think acupuncture is different from other activities? Give 100 adults a notebook and tell them to write a story. Most of those stories will suck. Give those same adults a week long class on writing, and have them write another story. It's still gonna suck. Can we conclude that writing is a sham? No, we can conclude that most people can't write.
 
2012-05-07 07:04:55 PM
Guy in my Sunday School class decided to use acupuncture when his wasn't getting the results he wanted from medicine. He got relief, and then felt guilty, because there was chanting going on while the needles were being inserted. So, he asked us to pray away any evil that he might have been exposed to during the session.

My husband and I kept waiting for the punchline, but this guy was sincere. He was thrilled to be well, but felt guilt that he used a non-Christian method to be healed.
 
2012-05-07 07:05:18 PM
Big Tobacco can help you with this decision

i47.tinypic.com

From Mad Comic 1964. Other pages here
 
2012-05-07 07:07:32 PM
P-L-A-C-E-B-O
 
2012-05-07 07:08:43 PM
Electronic cigarettes work well. You don't want to get the cheapest thing you find, and if it's the size of a real cigarette, it probably won't work well. But if you get an eGo or similar (roughly the size of a sharpie marker), they work very well.

You need juice that's good for you (you may have to experiment to find the right flavor and nicotine level for you). There is a bit of a learning curve - not as easy as "open the pack, pull out a cig, light it".

But it's very effective, much healthier than cigs, much cheaper than smoking, etc.

The best resource online is ECF, a very good place to do research or ask questions. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com

It worked for me, and I had been a very heavy smoker.
 
2012-05-07 07:11:25 PM
bp3.blogger.com

Approves of double secret probation blind studies
 
2012-05-07 07:12:01 PM
For some people all you need to do is have them spend a lot of money. If they think about what that pill/treatment costs they'll stop.
 
2012-05-07 07:12:04 PM

Smeggy Smurf: I have a surefire way to help men stop smoking. Every time you light up we get to kick you in the balls. I guarantee you'll stop smoking in one day.


Hah, show's how many hardcore smokers you know.
 
2012-05-07 07:16:49 PM
For those of you poking some fun at weird therapies, I invite you to take a look at some Complimentary and Alternative Medicine (CAM) studies - including those done by the DoD and VA.

I've worked for such a DoD-funded place, and the rigor they subject the studies to is every bit equal to those of Western medicine. It's weird to hear MDs talk about qi and meditation, but when they start showing significant results, if the methodology's sound, I'd believe they miniaturized the 501st to unblock arteries.

The mind is a very weird place. Physiologically, it could be that nothing changes directly, but if the brain decides to route more oxygen around, or that serotonin might be fun to have more of in the near future, kick starting that reaction might come from a variety of "unrelated" methods. I don't know about you, but I'd prefer nonchemical means over (deep breath): sideeffectsmayincludeheadachenauseavomitingconstipationdiarrhealungb la ckeningelephantitisofthescrotumestrogenoverproductionsexualsideeffects ...

As long as we don't start treating the flu with chanting and breathing exercises.
 
2012-05-07 07:18:24 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com

Iz going to try ''Natural Acupuncture''

/I told you I was hardcore!
 
2012-05-07 07:20:39 PM
rlv.zcache.com
 
2012-05-07 07:22:07 PM

timujin: I May Be Crazy But...: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I'd bet none of them were. It's a little hard to poke needles in people without them noticing. You know, so they don't know whether they're getting acupuncture.

That's kind of like saying, "I bet that pill study wasn't double blind. It's a little hard to get people to swallow pills without them noticing."

Stick needles in one group randomly and in the other group where acupuncture says they should work. Not really hard.


Double blind studies are done to prevent the person administering the "treatment" from influencing the patient. If the person who is sticking the needles in random spots obviously doesn't believe it'll help, then the person being stabbed with sharp metal objects can pick up on that.

Solution:
Step 1: Randomly assign people to either group A or group B.
Step 2: Have the acupuncturists pick a card from a bag assigning them to either the role of applying the placebo or the actual acupuncture.
Step 2b: Have them keep the card a secret
Step 3: Have the "patient" take place on the table in the appropriate position.
Step 4: Blindfold the patient and apply earplugs to the relevant body parts.
Step 5: Forbid the acupuncturist from speaking.
Step 6: Collect data

The experimenter won't know which group the placebo group is and the acupuncturist won't influence the test subject. Not an actual double blind, but for all intents and purposes it's the same.
 
2012-05-07 07:25:03 PM
I protest your protesting of alternate medicine! I happen to have a PhD in Fengshuian CrystalChiroNaturalistic Dowserology from the Advanced College of Things in Upper Volta! I KNOW what I am talking about!

Alternate medicine is real! Well, ok....maybe not all of it. The radium water thing kinda tanked. And Pauling's Vitamin C megadose theory is somewhat mental. But you can't throw out the baby when a rolling stone breaks glass houses!
 
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