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(Yahoo)   Acupuncture, hypnosis effective in getting people to quit smoking, according to the Bureau of I've Never Done a Double Blind Study In My Life   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 138
    More: Unlikely, acupuncture, smoking  
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2530 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 May 2012 at 5:37 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-05-07 05:07:40 PM
You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?
 
2012-05-07 05:31:24 PM
I found my biggest incentive to quit smoking when it came down to a choice between one pack of cigarettes or several days worth of food

/cold turkey sounded good any way you looked at it
 
2012-05-07 05:40:10 PM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: I found my biggest incentive to quit smoking when it came down to a choice between one pack of cigarettes or several days worth of food

/cold turkey sounded good any way you looked at it


Heh heh heh. Well done.
 
2012-05-07 05:42:19 PM
It's been known for centuries that addiction stems from inadequate flow of qi within the body. Piercing the intersection of bodily meridians is a logical means of correcting the imbalance and getting rid of the addiciotn.
 
2012-05-07 05:42:56 PM

timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?


I'd bet none of them were. It's a little hard to poke needles in people without them noticing. You know, so they don't know whether they're getting acupuncture.
 
2012-05-07 05:43:03 PM
Honestly, if someone kept poking me with giant needles, I'd be inclined to quit smoking if it would make them stop.
 
2012-05-07 05:43:05 PM
How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.
 
2012-05-07 05:43:12 PM
nobody likes a quitter.

SMOKE
 
2012-05-07 05:43:32 PM

timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?


I only have personal experience to rely on. In a moment of stupidity several years ago I went to see a well thought of hypnotist to quit smoking. My health insurance even paid for it. What a painful hour that was. Turns out that - from my extremely limited experience - hypnotism is an even bigger crock than I originally thought. That I did not quit smoking isn't even the point. The point is that at no time was I anything remotely akin to hypnotized.
 
2012-05-07 05:44:22 PM
The Placebo effect is still an effect.
 
2012-05-07 05:44:48 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I'd bet none of them were. It's a little hard to poke needles in people without them noticing. You know, so they don't know whether they're getting acupuncture.


Maybe they poked those needles in the eyes.

ta-da blind!
 
2012-05-07 05:45:47 PM

JohnBigBootay: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I only have personal experience to rely on. In a moment of stupidity several years ago I went to see a well thought of hypnotist to quit smoking. My health insurance even paid for it. What a painful hour that was. Turns out that - from my extremely limited experience - hypnotism is an even bigger crock than I originally thought. That I did not quit smoking isn't even the point. The point is that at no time was I anything remotely akin to hypnotized.


So you've always walked around acting like a chicken?

/the hypnotist would have woken you up, but he needed the eggs
 
2012-05-07 05:46:04 PM

Sticky Hands: I May Be Crazy But...: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I'd bet none of them were. It's a little hard to poke needles in people without them noticing. You know, so they don't know whether they're getting acupuncture.

Maybe they poked those needles in the eyes.

ta-da blind!


Oh, so you're a THINKER, are you? We don't like clever folks 'round here.
 
2012-05-07 05:46:27 PM
error303
It's been "known" for centuries that addiction stems from inadequate flow of qi within the body. Piercing the intersection of bodily meridians is a logical means of correcting the imbalance and getting rid of the addiciotn.

It's also been "known" that drilling holes in someone's head lets the evil spirits out and that letting someone's blood out is the best way to cure them when their humors are out of balance, Show me a device that can detect and quantify qi and then maybe I'll take you seriously.
 
2012-05-07 05:46:35 PM

JohnBigBootay: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I only have personal experience to rely on. In a moment of stupidity several years ago I went to see a well thought of hypnotist to quit smoking. My health insurance even paid for it. What a painful hour that was. Turns out that - from my extremely limited experience - hypnotism is an even bigger crock than I originally thought. That I did not quit smoking isn't even the point. The point is that at no time was I anything remotely akin to hypnotized.


Just for clarification - you mean he didn't even try to hypnotize you in the session, or it didn't work on you?

Hypnotism is well known for only working on people who believe that they can be hypnotized.
 
2012-05-07 05:46:38 PM

downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.


You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.
 
2012-05-07 05:46:49 PM
"But nowadays we know that Isabelle is suffering from an imbalance of bodily humors, perhaps caused by a toad or a small dwarf living in her stomach."
 
2012-05-07 05:47:39 PM
Just keep trying to quit, don't stop giving up. It took me seven tries (and I didn't pay for patches or any other stuff) but I finally did it, and I smoked for 15 years. Now I have all that extra pocket money I used to spend on a pack a day habit.
 
2012-05-07 05:48:36 PM
The question I had after reading the headline: "How do you do a double-blind study on acupuncture? It's not like there's a sugar-pill version of getting needles jabbed into you."

Then I read TFA, and saw something about "laser acupuncture". This is apparently acupuncture for people who are extra gullible and can't tolerate the "puncture" part of acupuncture. This I could actually see doing double-blind. Just have two lasers: one "real" laser and a laser that's just an LED.

/this would just lead to the discovery of "red LED acupuncture"
 
2012-05-07 05:48:53 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.


The studies where they say they found little difference in piercing an acupuncture point and pressing really hard on the point (sham acupuncture)? Yeah, pressing really hard is acupressure. So it wasn't placebo. And there pretty much isn't anywhere that isn't a point at some level.
 
2012-05-07 05:49:06 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.


Like backwards voodoo dolls or something?
 
2012-05-07 05:49:24 PM
I once went to an acupuncturist (free coupon) and he tried to cure my neck pain by sticking needles in my feet.

First he squeezed my neck on some pressure points and it hurt.
Then he stuck needles in my toes.
Finally he squeezed my neck again and it didn't hurt.

He was squeezing in different places, so of course it didn't hurt. Call me unimpressed by this charlatan.
 
2012-05-07 05:49:38 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.


Ahhhh, good point. I know nothing of acupuncture. My sister quit smoking using acupuncture, but I do truly believe its a placebo effect.

That or she needed more money for her doctor shopping and gargage-bag full of pain killers addiction.
 
2012-05-07 05:49:42 PM

I May Be Crazy But...: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I'd bet none of them were. It's a little hard to poke needles in people without them noticing. You know, so they don't know whether they're getting acupuncture.


Funny you should mention that.

Not exactly double blind, but toothpicks that don't pierce the skin and placed in random places work too
CONCLUSIONS:

Although acupuncture was found effective for chronic low back pain, tailoring needling sites to each patient and penetration of the skin appear to be unimportant in eliciting therapeutic benefits. These findings raise questions about acupuncture's purported mechanisms of action. It remains unclear whether acupuncture or our simulated method of acupuncture provide physiologically important stimulation or represent placebo or nonspecific effects.


My hypothesis: The Placebo Effect is an amazing thing, and I have no qualms about exploiting it in conjunction with REAL medicine.

//I'm going to look for studies on whether "warm and inviting" doctors have better results than "cold and analytical" doctors
 
2012-05-07 05:51:07 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: I once went to an acupuncturist (free coupon) and he tried to cure my neck pain by sticking needles in my feet.

First he squeezed my neck on some pressure points and it hurt.
Then he stuck needles in my toes.
Finally he squeezed my neck again and it didn't hurt.

He was squeezing in different places, so of course it didn't hurt. Call me unimpressed by this charlatan.


Ha! That's classic. Also, from what I know of acupuncture for pain (which I still think is bogus), is that the pain doesn't immediately go away.
 
2012-05-07 05:51:30 PM

Bondith: Honestly, if someone kept poking me with giant needles, I'd be inclined to quit smoking if it would make them stop.


Came here to say this.
 
2012-05-07 05:52:23 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.


You could give acupuncture to one person and then Rolf the other.
 
2012-05-07 05:52:50 PM
I have a surefire way to help men stop smoking. Every time you light up we get to kick you in the balls. I guarantee you'll stop smoking in one day.
 
2012-05-07 05:53:32 PM

meat0918: I May Be Crazy But...: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I'd bet none of them were. It's a little hard to poke needles in people without them noticing. You know, so they don't know whether they're getting acupuncture.

Funny you should mention that.

Not exactly double blind, but toothpicks that don't pierce the skin and placed in random places work too
CONCLUSIONS:

Although acupuncture was found effective for chronic low back pain, tailoring needling sites to each patient and penetration of the skin appear to be unimportant in eliciting therapeutic benefits. These findings raise questions about acupuncture's purported mechanisms of action. It remains unclear whether acupuncture or our simulated method of acupuncture provide physiologically important stimulation or represent placebo or nonspecific effects.

My hypothesis: The Placebo Effect is an amazing thing, and I have no qualms about exploiting it in conjunction with REAL medicine.

//I'm going to look for studies on whether "warm and inviting" doctors have better results than "cold and analytical" doctors


Thanks.
 
2012-05-07 05:57:52 PM

azazyel: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.

You could give acupuncture to one person and then Rolf the other.


Rofl will win, laughter IS the best medicine.
 
2012-05-07 05:59:00 PM

JohnBigBootay: timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?

I only have personal experience to rely on. In a moment of stupidity several years ago I went to see a well thought of hypnotist to quit smoking. My health insurance even paid for it. What a painful hour that was. Turns out that - from my extremely limited experience - hypnotism is an even bigger crock than I originally thought. That I did not quit smoking isn't even the point. The point is that at no time was I anything remotely akin to hypnotized.


Why didn't you just take a placebo. It would do just as much good.

onlyhdwallpapers.com
 
2012-05-07 05:59:19 PM

meat0918: My hypothesis: The Placebo Effect is an amazing thing, and I have no qualms about exploiting it in conjunction with REAL medicine.


Agreed. And common medical ethics agrees with you too.
 
2012-05-07 05:59:44 PM
I went to an acupuncture therapist once to get me to start smoking ...
 
2012-05-07 06:01:02 PM

SavageWombat: Just for clarification - you mean he didn't even try to hypnotize you in the session, or it didn't work on you?

Hypnotism is well known for only working on people who believe that they can be hypnotized.



Oh he tried I suppose. I don't know that I'd given much thought to it beforehand. I just know that I was not hypnotized to any extent whatsoever.
 
2012-05-07 06:01:41 PM

Smeggy Smurf: I have a surefire way to help men stop smoking. Every time you light up we get to kick you in the balls. I guarantee you'll stop smoking in one day.


Slavery Torture, gets shiat done..
 
2012-05-07 06:03:55 PM

timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?


Clearly you are unfamiliar with the stunning research standards of disciplines such as Ecology, Psychology, Sociology, and yes, "alternative medicine".

/CSB: Once sat through an ecology seminar where the presenter equated crown gall tumors in plants to cancer and suggested that crown galls could be used to test oncological therapeutics.
 
2012-05-07 06:09:19 PM

Smeggy Smurf: I have a surefire way to help men stop smoking. Every time you light up we get to kick you in the balls. I guarantee you'll stop smoking in one day.


What if the person is a Eunuch with a pack a day habit?
 
2012-05-07 06:09:19 PM

downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.


For acupuncture, you poke them in the wrong spot.

For hypnotism, make quarter of them quit smoking. Make the quarter smoke more. Make half do nothing. Check the results. The "smoke more" patients freak out when you suggest it, they were never under your control to begin with.
 
2012-05-07 06:09:32 PM

timujin: You think of the "14 international studies" none were double-blind?


Well the first sentence basically says the researchers findings include questions like not knowing exactly how effective these therapies are or how they compare to conventional methods. Then they go on to say they should still stand as options... because.
 
2012-05-07 06:09:41 PM

Smeggy Smurf: I have a surefire way to help men stop smoking. Every time you light up we get to kick you in the balls. I guarantee you'll stop smoking in one day.


So you've read it too, huh?
 
2012-05-07 06:09:52 PM
Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom
You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.

Doesn't make a damn bit of difference where you poke them, apparently.

.
..
...
....
*15 minutes of searching later*

Where the hell is that link? Now I just look like an idiot.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? A study that showed being poked in the traditional acupuncture spots and being poked at random showed no statistical difference?
 
2012-05-07 06:11:32 PM

Smeggy Smurf: I have a surefire way to help men stop smoking. Every time you light up we get to kick you in the balls. I guarantee you'll stop smoking in one day.


I'm inhaling tobacco smoke and getting kicked in the balls at the moment but my Mistress told me tell you that she found your comment mildly amusing. So here.
 
2012-05-07 06:12:10 PM

Bondith: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom
You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.

Doesn't make a damn bit of difference where you poke them, apparently.

.
..
...
....
*15 minutes of searching later*

Where the hell is that link? Now I just look like an idiot.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? A study that showed being poked in the traditional acupuncture spots and being poked at random showed no statistical difference?


Are you looking for the study meat0918linked to?
 
2012-05-07 06:12:20 PM

skinink: Smeggy Smurf: I have a surefire way to help men stop smoking. Every time you light up we get to kick you in the balls. I guarantee you'll stop smoking in one day.

What if the person is a Eunuch with a pack a day habit?


They'd have the most disturbing voice ever?
 
2012-05-07 06:13:46 PM

downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.


I've seen double blind studies with acupuncture. Basically they make 3 groups, one gets nothing, one gets acupuncture as given by an acupuncturist, and the third group gets pokes with a needle in the "wrong" places.

Interestingly, they have shown a positive effect in both the "right" and the "wrong" stabbing groups that was outside the expected placebo range. So, in conclusion, poking people with needles seems to help alleviate pain, but it doesn't matter where you do it.
 
2012-05-07 06:15:13 PM

Bondith: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom
You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.

Doesn't make a damn bit of difference where you poke them, apparently.

.
..
...
....
*15 minutes of searching later*

Where the hell is that link? Now I just look like an idiot.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? A study that showed being poked in the traditional acupuncture spots and being poked at random showed no statistical difference?


http://journals.lww.com/clinicalpain/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=20 0 8&issue=03000&article=00005&type=abstract

That one?

"Results: Arm pain scores improved in both groups during the treatment period, but improvements were significantly greater in the sham group than in the true acupuncture group. This difference disappeared by 1 month after treatment ended. The true acupuncture group experienced more side effects, predominately mild pain at time of treatments."
 
2012-05-07 06:15:38 PM

Maverick Couch: skinink: Smeggy Smurf: I have a surefire way to help men stop smoking. Every time you light up we get to kick you in the balls. I guarantee you'll stop smoking in one day.

What if the person is a Eunuch with a pack a day habit?

They'd have the most disturbing voice ever?


Fran Drescher?
 
2012-05-07 06:16:00 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: downstairs: How would one do a double-blind study? You can't tell if a pill is real or fake... but I'm pretty damn sure you're not going to convince someone you're putting needles in their skin and then not doing so.

Or hypnotizing them.

You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.


Link
 
2012-05-07 06:16:22 PM

some_beer_drinker: nobody likes a quitter.

SMOKE


ihateketchup.files.wordpress.com

Approves.

archives.frederatorblogs.com

...is alright with this.
 
2012-05-07 06:18:31 PM

StaleCoffee: Bondith: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom
You can poke them in the wrong spots. The sugar pill equivalent to acupuncture isn't no acupuncture, but an acupuncture-like treatment that isn't actually accupuncture.

Doesn't make a damn bit of difference where you poke them, apparently.

.
..
...
....
*15 minutes of searching later*

Where the hell is that link? Now I just look like an idiot.

Anyone know what I'm talking about? A study that showed being poked in the traditional acupuncture spots and being poked at random showed no statistical difference?

http://journals.lww.com/clinicalpain/pages/articleviewer.aspx?year=20 0 8&issue=03000&article=00005&type=abstract

That one?

"Results: Arm pain scores improved in both groups during the treatment period, but improvements were significantly greater in the sham group than in the true acupuncture group. This difference disappeared by 1 month after treatment ended. The true acupuncture group experienced more side effects, predominately mild pain at time of treatments."


Yes! Thank you! I'm pretty sure I saw it on Fark way back when.
 
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